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FACTNET.ORG FORUM: LaRouche Part II - Page1

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Anonymous
06-03-2004, 09:36 AM
Not to turn this into a gossip board, but I wonder if some of the oldtimers could provide accounts of famous defections. I left before Zoakos did, and am particularly curious how Lyn's golden boy (after Gus split) went about decamping from the neoplatonic city builders and what the consequences were. Is there anyone of the old NEC left aside from Nancy Spannaus?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks.

 

Anonymous
06-04-2004, 01:36 AM
the most important to know about Fearless Leader is -- after his imprisonment -- he has learnt the rules of who to attack and who to stay away from.

Fearless sends his minions to break up Dem meetings, chase Lieberman, chase Kerry, make loud noises outside Wal-mart, etc. but the yoots will never be unleashed on Kissinger, etc... i.e. the people who could put Fearless leader away.

you see tom, your targets are carefully chosen for you. when i was with the org, i had a discussion over the phone with an old timer about the yoot "movement".

we were talking about "strategy", and one of the things that came up was....literally...is "the youth movement is something we can control".

tom only gets to rail at permissible targets...lieberman being one of them. new ones will be selected - as usual - as time goes by.

Fearlesss has permission for these targets. Other targets however, are not permitted to Fearless. So fearless might grumble about them in passing, but no yoots will ever be set loose upon those above Fearless Leader's assigned station.

Going after kate graham, after lieberman, after cheney, after arnie, after wal-mart, after tom's mother and father, after whoever...all these are "products".

yes tom, it is about time you learn one more in-house keyword..."product".

depending on what CNN or waPo or CBS or NBC is covering, "products" will be designed accordingly.

like for example...pictures of prisoners from iraq being splashed across the mainstream media...new product comes out....mark of the beastmen part 2 or is it part 3 ?

need something to help boost the coffers...out comes the lar doctrine - not that lar is actually serious about a palestinian state...after all...this is a man who couldn't be bothered about a kurdish state or an east timor state or a tibetan state...but is he bothered about a palestinian state because there is a good market out there...so palestinians get good press...for now.

so you see tom, you are nothing but a street vendor/thug...sometimes you sell things by the sidewalk, sometimes you go harass people at their meetings.

the "products"...i.e. be it a palestinian state, or a maglev across siberia or a trip to mars...it's just to hook innocent passer-bys..to get their money.

and finally tom, fearless Leader has no intention of ever sending you to mars...at least not until his hausfrau's pet cats get there first.

 

Anonymous
06-04-2004, 06:40 AM
Perhaps it might be helpful to someone to record how I came to leave the NCLC:

When I left, I thought LaRouche & Cie were 100% right about everything, and that it was I that was the problem 100%. However, I simply could not bear the lying, the shabbiness of human relations, the continual abuse from people who were clearly lacking in conscience, the shame of standing out in public twelve hours per day like the town loon pushing crazy claims I suspected to be false, and so on, that led me to just leave, heavy hearted: I wanted to fight for humanity, but my organism simply came to resist the environment which seemed necessary to do so. There was simply no rhyme or reason to any of it. But I used to blame this on this or that NEC or NC member for this or that abuse; I used to think, "if only Lyn knew what was going on!" It took years before the light came on that he was the source of all this misery. It took years, because I had such sure faith in his godlike powers of creative mentation, that it took further experience of human beings generally, especially of human beings in power, that I was enabled to understand my LC experience in its proper context, i.e. a cult of personality. The day of liberation came some four years later when I joyfully loaded three large, black plastic garbage bags full of "literature" and hauled them out to the street. I only wish I had saved the internal memos for publication at this time, because then the newcomer to the LC could get an accurate picture of how s/he is viewed by "management."

If one is a current member, ask yourself:

(1) How does the bad treatment meted out to me daily comport with a "humanist" outlook? Am I not a human being? Even if the deployment/contact meeting went poorly? Or is my humanity contingent upon outcomes, which contradicts the notion of the intrinsic worth of people, the official line of the organization?

(2) Is it possible at all that one human being should be right about everything all the time? When has Lyn EVER admitted being wrong? Does that sound normal? Therefore, is this someone I should be following, someone who implicitly claims to be infallible about everything?

(3) Let me look at my activity: sales. How are sales helping to build a better world? Really.

I hope this helps someone.

 

Scott
06-04-2004, 08:00 PM
Hi All,

It's been a long time, but my goal was to shout loud enough until someone heard, and soon a story will come out across the country about the story I have been telling here, and though each day I am worried to hear the story has broken(my name will be used, and I'm sure my life is going to be hard afterward at least for some time), I can come back here and remember it is worth it. One of the things that always appealed to me in the Larouche Cult Movement was that they claimed to tell the truth no matter the cost, and I have put myself up in order to expose this nonsense. I urge any of you who have been unable to do so to come out to the public and tell your story, write me at scottmo7776@yahoo.com and I will tell you how to get in touch with the reporter doing a series of investigative reporting features on the Cult. I understand it's hard to do it. I don't think I will be able to be employed where I live after the story, and I happen to be incorporating a theatre company now, and I think my funding will be made more difficult(if not impossible) by this.

I came across some Larouchies a few weeks ago and it strengthened my resolve--I asked Rob, a young guy who had just been moved to Baltimore when I left, about what happened to Jeremiah Duggan, and he ranted to me how the Tavistock Institute had made him "unable to deal with reality"....though it seems like a few weeks ago the whole thing had been described as a "hoax" by Larouche himself.

Please--if you have any intimate knowledge of the group and can help to bring them down, don't be afraid, I'm sure Rob had a future before the cult caught him, and if we were more vigilant and open as a society, this organization would have been obliterated years ago.

Bella--I want to thank you for coming out and talking about Tom.

"Bella" sent me an email assuring me that I was right about his family--Tom's mother is not a Larouche supporter and never has been, and furthermore, he has one good friend outside the "movement" and dated a woman outside the "movement" which confirms my belief that Tom maybe has been looking for options outside of his current imprisonment. I hope you find it Tom. Maybe you're this generation's Dennis King--write a book, Tom, write a book and get out, and warn the rest...do it for humanity Tom.

 

Anonymous
06-05-2004, 10:30 AM
Hi Scott,

Glad to hear from you again.

I e-mailed you before from my personal yahoo e-mail (m*****_****).

Tom has gone AWOL it seems.

The org is taking the "do not respond" approach to this forum.

About the org, the yoot movement was launched as a last ditch effort to save the printing company WorldCom.

ken kronberg..who runs the printing company..took out loans and expanded the printing co. in order to get more business.

it was an old org trick...get people to contribute money...and use that money to start a business (printing, real estate, etc.) ...and use people who joined to movement to work in the businesses for nearly free.


the business plan didn't go, and the org started having major financial problems...at least more major than before.

eir stopped being mailed out, and eiw was started to convert eir subscribers over to eiw...since the org could no longer afford to mail out eir.

however, worldcom must be saved at any cost..which is why members' stipends were cannibalized to start up the yoot movement.

lhl needed people to go out and get money for the org (especially worldcom), primarily by selling eir, and pamphlets.

if you want to take down the org, you must take down the printing company - worldcom. worldcom does do normal jobs for other businesses, anbd the profit from this helps to subsidize the org significant.

the best way to alert all of worldcom's ordinary clients that the profit worldcom gets from them is being used to run a criminal cult.

once worldcom starts losing its clients, the org will die a natural death as a result of its debts, etc.

worldcom is quite well-known the the VA-DC area. the connection between worldcom and the cult must be made clear to worldcom's client base.

i was in the org and talked with people at a level higher up than tom.....lhl is desperate to save worldcom...this is where all the pamphlets, etc. comes from....and the yoots (i.e. lhl) need the pamplets, eir, etc. to go out and sell. without the lit. they will have nothing to sell...and won't be able to raise any money.

the org can't afford to have a third-party printer do their printing for them.

this is how you take down lhl...by taking away worldcom's clients...make sure you tell this to that reporter....and make sure that reporter makes it clear why no one should do any business with worldcom.

the ball is in your court scott..do it for the sake of those youths.

 

Kheris
06-05-2004, 04:32 PM
Hello Anon192 - do you actually mean World Press, located in Alexandria? And I haven't found an Internet site for them yet.

 

Anonymous
06-05-2004, 07:28 PM
hi,

maybe the name has changed.

i know for a fact that when the old timers want to interview people in the imf, world bank , etc...they don't introduce themselves as being from eir...they call up and say that they are from strategic alert, etc.

the name is/was "worldcom"...though i wouldn't be surprised that when they go out to get printing jobs, they use some other front name, and then send that job to worldcom.

there is no inet site for worldcom...at least not while i was in the org.

worldcom is the only operation that is/was profitable in the lhl org. it has helped them thru a lot of hard times. take worldcom's clients away, and the yoot movement will die. they are having problems paying out that lousy $50 a week as it is.

the printing press is located in leesburg. one way to track it down is to note the name of the contact person(s), rather than the actual company name itself...which could change. Ellie DeGroot runs the place - or so i hear.

 

Bella
06-05-2004, 07:41 PM
Hi Scott: I thought about what you had to say to me. Surely, you would find it challenging to understand Tom and how he is able to lead two lives. But he has done this (I believe) for most of his tenure with LaRouche. His former wife was not a member and they were married for quite some time and I don't believe his marriage ended because of LaRouche at all. May be it was his way of saying to the world that by his example....the things being said about what went on in the movement just were not true. And I can tell you in all honesty....if his personality hadn't changed so drastically....I would have stayed and allowed him to continue with his cause without much adue from me. I'm just a very non judgmental person who feels that this is America...we are all entitled to our beliefs....no matter how strange they be....so long as it doesn't put others in harms' way. I'm not sure what his function was/is within the movement, but make no mistake that he was someone that LaRouche called on at times and that his name would be known within the organization.

Tom....I hope you came to this message board looking for a way out. Maybe seeing me here will help you realize that things do happen for a reason. And that these stories being told are not lies from bad soldiers who just weren't strong enough to fight for the cause. And the only conspiracy here is the one that LaRouche perpetuates.

Please write that book and tell your story and help save a life. You have been blessed with many gifts and talents and this would surely be the best gift you could ever give back to humanity.

And I promise you that when the bricks start tumbling down in your house as you make your way to a new life....that you will have the support and encouragement that you need to make it to the end of your journey.

I care about life and I care about yours. And always will.

 

Anonymous
06-06-2004, 02:09 PM
Have you noticed that
The Wrath of Con (64.12.116.66)
Jung for Bitter Yutes (64.12.116.66)
Unanimous (64.12.116.66)
Ann Coulter (64.12.116.66)
AND
Bella (64.12.116.66)
are all the same person?

You better check the earlier post of certain person, before you believe
them story.

 

Anonymous
06-06-2004, 02:26 PM
Like I said before, they'll say and do anything to suck people in. They believe that the ends justify the means.

Why do you think Visitor wanted us to e-mail them? Because in public, others will scrutinise what they're saying and call them on it. In private, they have a better chance of pushing the individual's buttons and creating a unique psychological profile to be worked on.

As part of a group, there's too many dynamics involved and they can't keep control of it or manipulate us as easily.

They've got files on everyone who posts here. I'd be ashamed if mine wasn't in at least its second edition. I'm a long-time adversary.

 

Anonymous
06-06-2004, 04:28 PM
Good observation, 213. No one here should be disclosing their identity to anyone. I thought it a tad fishy that someone's lost love should just happen to be the very same as an obscure LCM poster (John Covici) on an obscure message board as this ... but then, odder things are known to happen, such as getting people to believe that a convicted felon and candidate for the glue factory could become president of the United States.

 

Bella
06-06-2004, 07:14 PM
There certainly may be some on this post who aren't who they propose to be. That being said, please believe me that I am not one of those. My heart aches for all of you who have been inside of the movement and are now trying to make new lives for yourselves. I came here looking for information to help me understand better a situation I was in so that I could move on. But in the meantime, I gave thought to the fact that this person "Tom" might really be the person I knew. It sounded so much like his writing style. And there were other clues along the way. I was as amazed as the next person. I decided to post after long thought. But I had nothing to lose. Nada. I could see nothing but possibly good coming from my postings.

There are good, kind, compassionate and loving people running still around on this earth. We are not perfect. But we are real. And I am one of them. And while I haven't suffered your pain, I have had my own. And plenty of it.

I choose to trust Scott is the person he says he is. That he has stepped up to the plate and put himself at risk to try and end this reign of terror.

I have offered Scott my help if he needs it and my encouragement. I don't know whether he has chosen to do this alone, but I hope some or all of you who are survivors will at least offer him your encouragement too.

 

Bella
06-06-2004, 07:32 PM
P.S. I am curious myself as to why those numbers are all the same where the username appears. I'll admit that I was not that observant. I do not know anyone in the movement personally, except for "Tom." I don't believe it would jeopardize anyone's identity for me to say that the person I am referring to is NOT the name one of the Anon's mentioned. Maybe this is one of those little tidbits to stir the pot.....so to speak.

I'm not sure I buy into the way the information was put before whoever said it.

 

Kheris
06-06-2004, 08:53 PM
One thing everyone should keep in mind is that AOL users are assigned the IP of the moment. The consequence is that they may appear to be someone else. I have banned specific AOL IPs from my site, only to find out that someone who is not a problem has been assigned that IP. Every one of the IPs Bella has posted under is from AOL. Therefore it is a bit of a stretch to assume that Bella is the person who previously posted under that IP as alleged by Anon213.

I would give her the benefit of the doubt in any case.

 

Kheris
06-06-2004, 09:00 PM
For Anon192, the company is World Comp, and there are 2 sites, one of which is PMR-Printing. I looked up the FEC records, and there is World Comp, getting paid for a variety of Larouche activities.

If there is one thing I have observed, it is that the Larouche organization practices incest. Not all that surprising, but I suspect that is what is keeping it alive. Once Kerry gets the official nod as the DNC standard bearer LHL will no longer get matching funds. I wonder how long he can stay in business after that if the finances are as bad off as alleged earlier.

 

Anonymous
06-06-2004, 10:02 PM
Hi Kheris,

thanks for the info....

the site is http://www.pmr-printing.com.

at the site...there is this ad bit called "pmr's secret"...

PMR's secret is aggressive problem-solving. Some firms do one or two things well, but they get into trouble as soon as a client asks them for something a little out of the ordinary. PMR has found that the best way to grow our business is to seek out challenges from our clients, and then to develop the skills, add the equipment, or expand the capabilities that are needed to meet that challenge.
In other words, we try to figure out where our clients want us to be two or three years down the road.

For instance, we realized that many of our clients wanted to keep their work under one, full-service roof. So, we built a high-tech mail shop capable of meeting the latest automation-compatible requirements of the U.S. Postal Service. PMR is now one of the premier mailers and shippers in the Dulles corridor.

Design, data conversion, composition, and programming are provided by our in-house graphic arts complex, WorldComp—World Composition Services, one of the nation's leading typesetters.

This corporate philosophy has allowed PMR to become one of the few actually "full-service" firms in the region. We can, for instance, take a client's database, convert it to directory or catalog files, design the text, compose the pages, print it, bind it, and simultaneously post the info to a website. We can insert the printed piece in an envelope with other materials, inkjet the address, and mail it; we also provide international delivery services. All under one roof.

Some examples of PMR's problem-solving are shown on the various "Resources" pages in this site.
but we all know...pmr's real secret is that is it a cult.

the other is..http://www.world-comp.com/

to scott,

tell your reporter friend that, to bring down lhl...organise a boycott of world comp and pmr.

 

borisbad
06-07-2004, 07:14 PM
I have only recently come across this site after learning of it from another former member. Like him I left over ten years ago so I don't keep up with all the latest developments. I do remember back when LaRouche had an earlier youth movement, back then it was the Revolutionary Youth Movement, which sounded like the SDS RYM. It started recruiting heavily from some gangs of the day. LaRouche said that he would make RYM the biggest "gang" in the country. Very grandiose, but the thing fell apart when some of the youth leaders of the day dropped out. I remember one member getting busted for guns in New York. And there were some brush ups with the Communist Party which was also trying to do some youth recruiting.

While I remember how awful things were living in the LC on its "stipend" while knowing that LaRouche lived in luxury, first on Sutton Place in Manhattan and then his posh digs in Loudon County, VA, the first place I believe he rented from one of the famous Russian ballet dancers who had emigrated here. Fortunately, I learned a few skills with their printing company that enabled me to get work on the outside after I left.

It's really interesting to read Scott and Bella's posts to see what the latest developments are. I am sure LaRouche will continue to recruit his new members while the older ones burn out or fade away.

 

Anonymous
06-08-2004, 07:48 PM
Basically, what is going on in the org today is that most of the boomers are being replaced with cheap labor (i.e. the yoots).

Fearless Leader is merely repeating what he did last time...replace the current used-up crop with fresh warm bodies.

the boomers of the org today are up to their noses in debt (i.e. can't take on any more new debt to give to lhl and his housewife).

furthermore, every now and then, a boomer here or there will get sick and might expect the org to help pay the medical bills.

...and though they forego having kids in order to devote themselves to the cult, but with increasing age, they can't stay awake and serve the german housewife for 18 hours anymore.

so the plan is to get rid of all unnecessary fat - i.e. most of the boomers - a few will be kept in the stables - such as steinberg, spannaus, etc.

the rest will have a big sales quota on their heads, and their stipends cut if they - naturally - don't meet their quotas.

without stipends, they'll be forced to leave the org and get a job as a substitute teacher or do real estate sales.

lhl got rid of people of his own generation and replaced them with the boomers in the early days...today...it is the boomers' turn.

the boomers got fat, so they are being replace with yoots who could sleep four in a room, etc...and just eat bread and drink pipe water.

 

Anonymous
06-08-2004, 09:14 PM
Anon192

How does this apply to boomers like Harley and Phil and R. Beltran?

 

Anonymous
06-08-2004, 11:17 PM
lhl needs to hold on to a handful...

phil and harley prey on the yoot.

bruce d. does that silly riemann series..not that riemann is silly, but merely bruce d.

the steinbergs do "counter-intelligence" i.e. they play about with lar's US contacts.

rachel douglas - her brother is in jail for dope dealing - is needed for her russian language skills.

allen douglas - used to cheat on rachel - controls the aussies.

kathy wolfe - has some computer job, debt problems, dumped her previous husband for lonnie - works the japanese and koreans.

lonnie wolfe - fantasizes himself as a "security man" - despite the fact that he is balding and is a small-sized man.

ken and molly kronberg - runs fidelio and the printing company - from what i heard - has a son named max that they keep out of the org. - while that work for an org. that grabs other people's sons and daughters.

effie degroot - needed to work the printing company.

barbara boyd - old washed-up blonde - does paperwork in the national offcie.

her husband - zeke boyd - former black militant -drives a cab.

dennis and gretchen small - works the latinos and latinas.

dennis speed - runs baltimore office - would lose his temper whenever not eough $$$ comes in...

lynn speed - dennis' wife - from what i heard, used to get slap around whenever she didn't bring home enough $$$ for the man.

william jones - works the D.C. office - covers press conferences - a black man - tried to get upclose and personal with colin powell.

richard freeman - do a lot of statistics - but will only publish those that show lhl to be "right" and cover up the stats that show lhl to be off-tangent - works as a substitute teacher.

mike billington - used to be top swindler (i.e. fundraiser) in the org...today...largely ignored...even though he went to jail for over 10 years...has debt problems...lives off the wife's rich father. currently, works the filipinos - tried to pass himself off as some chinese/asian scholar, but no one took him seriously, at least not for long....on his way to being another zeke boyd.

gail billington - mike's wife - her previous husband cheated on her - after her divorce, she married mike, but mike turned out to be the short-fused sort...her life is a big waste...used to go to boarding school in europe..today...no kids, never will have kids...a wasted life.

i could go on and on...but in conclusion, lhl needs around 50 of these boomers...to service Hausfrau Helga and other tasks.

the rest...can go get a job.

 

Anonymous
06-09-2004, 05:30 AM
Whatever happened to Carol White? Interesting that the surviving "boomers" are the ones never noted for high intelligence.

 

Anonymous
06-09-2004, 07:40 AM
someone told me carol is now selling real estate...

 

Anonymous
06-09-2004, 08:57 AM
Good for them, a picture of a happy, fulfilled life after a lifetime of nonsense:

http://www.chrisandcarolwhite.com/

 

Anonymous
06-09-2004, 05:27 PM
i read the chris and carol bio at their website..no mention of lhl...i guess it's either not important...or they are too ashamed.

anyway...i wonder if people who go to them for real estate advice knows that they used to belong to an org that ran financial scams....

 

Kheris
06-09-2004, 07:09 PM
How does this apply to boomers like Harley and Phil and R. Beltran?

phil and harley prey on the yoot.

the rest...can go get a job

Your listing left out Beltran, who is a 'boomer', and was at a fan convention this past May in London. He said he was bored, and mentioned some things he wanted to do. He was running the drama workshops as recently as Mother's Day. Is this his function then for the LYM? As a sidekick to Harley and Phil?

 

Anonymous
06-09-2004, 09:56 PM
Is Beltran there to make money or to bring more suckers in?

 

Anonymous
06-09-2004, 09:56 PM
i suspect beltran is someone who has been disillusioned by "hollywood"...the interviews he gave to the org points to this....and the larouche cult is very adept at feeding on the disillusionment, as well as the sincere hopes of others.

lhl scamed beltran with the truman story, and the generation gap story, and now beltran thinks he finally has modern american history - as well as the cause of all the world's problems today - figured out...thanks to lhl - the world's one and only non-solution.

lhl is very good at making up simple explanations to help make complicated things line up neatly...the only problem is that every now and then some new explanation will come along - but this doens't mean that lhl was wrong - it just means that lhl was hypothezing the higher hypotheses,

the org is using beltran to sucker in more youth...the idea of having a well-known actor give you acting classes is too good a pull.

the org has used this trick before...get to know some well-known singer, musician or actor, get some rapport going with them, by having "intellectual" discussions with them about how bad movies or music or broadway is today...then the target will think that they have found someone who understands them, their problems, share their hopes and dreams, etc.

then comes the ego stroking - you get an invitation to perform at a conference or something like that.

finally, comes the "lyn is the only solution" line, with some explanation on how lyn is so clever that everybody just slanders him as a fascist and everyone who has left him - chris and carol white for example - are agents - real estate or otherwise.

then, the org starts asking for money...which is what it was all about to begin with.

it happened to william warfield...and now that warfield is dead...beltran is next in line.

 

Sean Astin
06-10-2004, 12:20 AM
To find the real truth as to why Kheris heaps so much scorn on LaRouche, visit her website where you can find poetry, reviews, daydreams, journals and psychotic ramblings all centered around Mr. Robert Beltran –-the man who in no uncertain terms, told her that she was one fan he could do without. You know what they say about a woman scorned….

As for why Kheris is so obsessed with the Jeremy Duggan incident, perhaps it is because her own psychologically warped, fellow-Beltran obsessor is known to be unstable and is probably suicidal. Perhaps Kheris is looking to blame Harley Schlanger, Lyndon LaRouche and Robert Beltran in advance of the day when this Beltran-spurned woman literally goes over the edge. In her delusions of Sherlock Holmesian grandeur, Kheris thinks subsequent investigation by Interpol will shut down the entire LaRouche organization and throw the evil triad of Schlanger, LaRouche and Beltran into prison, for which she'll take sole credit. And that will be more important to her, than the pathetic death of her pathetic "friend". Don't be fooled by this anti-LaRouchie, the truth is just beneath the surface of some really bad poetry that you can see on her site… The kind of poetry that would drive 10,000 Jeremy Duggans to suicide. Come to think of it, we might have a criminal case against Kheris in a few years.


A' gushi moiya (do You hear me?)
A' gushi moiya (are You there?)

… Where is a kind Spirit
Who will guide me?
Where is a kind Spirit
Who will hold me?

A' gushi moiya (do You hear me?)
A' gushi moiya (are You there?)

http://kheris.net/creative_moments.htm

 

Anonymous
06-10-2004, 02:12 AM
Hi Sean,

Glad to see that LaRouchies still come here...

After Tom (and his 'axioms') were defeated, I was beginning to worry that no LaRused yoot would come here anymore.

Perhaps you can take Tom's place and give us a better fight...

About poetry...here is Lyn's attempt...

One day
where the children played
There came a smiling man from a dead planet.

He stood
as if to show he knew
The way of children
and a stranger.

Soon,
more curious than startled,
the children shuffled;
Eyeing the figure that
seemed not to menace after all.

'He is this,' one said.
'Or perhaps that,' another suggested.

One child looked directly
at the man.
The stranger's eyes smiled,
his mouth unchanged.

In time,
the boldest spoke.
The stranger nodded.
Another tried.
'He does not speak
our language,' one proposed
After the failure
of several efforts to prompt
Conversation from the visitor.

'He knows,'
another corrected.
'See his eyes.'
'He understands?'
another asked.
'You understand?' he said
to the stranger.

The man's expression
didn't change,
they swore later.
But all the same
they know he understood.

They were pleased,
so pleased.
They turned from the visitor
for a moment,
To share their opinion.
When they glanced back,
He was gone.

They never saw him again.
But they know
that something
important
and good
Had happened for him?
and for themselves.

(http://www.ex-iwp.org/docs/1975/Critical%20Practice.htm)

As you can see Sean, we all have our "creative moments"...including the old geezer.

With Lyn's kind of poetry, no wonder so many people dropped out and became FBI agents.

Lyn is not obsessed with star trek...merely with his own opinions of himself.

Come to think of it...how did Lyn ever know so much about masturbation ???

 

Anonymous
06-10-2004, 02:19 AM
why don't i summarize it for you sean....

from kheris...

do You hear me?
are You there?

from lyn...

He is this,
Or perhaps that,
He understands,
You understand?

...in your face sean, now take your best shot back at me...

 

Anonymous
06-10-2004, 03:28 AM
"chris and carol white for example - are agents - real estate or otherwise"

LOL ... that's too good; imagine what a great standup routine you could build around life in the NCLC; true gallows humor ...



  • Sean evidently fears his own emotions, because if he were honest with himself he would know (1) what a mess he is in and (2) what a coward he is for not trying to express himself in verse, thus necessitating he lash out at others striving to learn to be true to themselves as individuals rather than as cut-out street vendors and boiler-room operators who, after fourteen-hour days, can look forward to nervously embedding a cardboard hexagon in a sphere while his life crumbles around him.
 

Kheris
06-10-2004, 03:59 AM
Hello Sean

I heard you were a closet Larouchie. Perhaps you are after all. Hyperbole seems to be a trait that marks them (especially LHL) and you certainly demonstrate skill at it. Pay enough dues and you could be promoted from gopher to speechwriter.

I have no illusions about RB and his association with Larouche, or the probability that the LYM will come down before LHL finally moves on to The Podium in the Sky. Although I certainly would be happy to facilitate the breakup of the LYM. Having been on the receiving end of LYM recruiting (I think that is what it was) I now have a pretty thorough education in their thought processes. Let's see what the investigative reporter comes up with first.

And in case you hadn't heard Interpol is not chasing the Duggan case. However, the Children of Satan III pamphlet (sample above) will set us all straight about that case. Of course fact checking is not a strong suit of the Larouchies either.

 

xlcr4life
06-10-2004, 06:19 PM
There used to be a Yute forum called The Academy 2004. I had a great run on there and fielded a lot of great emails from yute who had no idea of what the real history of the org was. Even the moderator encouraged the fray to continue. But, one day, the site closed down. My very last post was an attempt at artistic license based on both my experiences in the group, and looking at a huge sign a yute was holding in an EIR picture with the word "Laroucheyouth". AT 3 AM, my eyes noticed some thing peculiar.

Here is the last post on the old LYM web site:


"I would like to comment on the evolution debate in the Larouche Youth forum on Abiotic vs Biotic vs Psyhotic evolution.

You start off young and strong. YOUTH!

You think you are growing. Larouche YOUTH!

The process begins....LAROUCHEYOUTH!

But something happens....LAROUCHEyouth!
Your identity is gone.

Finally, you have evolved....LAROUCHEY!
And the process is complete.

Something happens, your hurt lar OUCH ey!
by the abuse.

You wake up screaming, larouc HEY!
no more, no more!

Finally, surgery is complete ....U....-
and all that is left is:

And U will go on to do many wonderful, creative and happy things, because U have evolved from the muck.

To be continued.....

"Beyond Psychos, the Analysis" is coming soon"

Your obedient servant XLCR
I added a few words, never had a chance to resubmit the new version. But, I now understand why many things are often personal and based on what you have gone through. So, I no longer think I am superior to what people write, draw or sing, since it comes from the heart. In the group, we were reminded in so many ways that ONLY LHL knows what is best and knows all of the secrets. So enjoy the secrets you will find here and in many other places about what the Bizarro world has awaiting for you.

As I often remind the Yutes of today. Experience is what you have left, after everything else was taken away. LHL and co know how to take it away.

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
06-10-2004, 09:24 PM
sean,

where are you ???

we need more poetry...

are you afraid to post again ???

didn't harley teach you to be fearless ???

He is this,

Or perhaps that,

He understands,

You understand?

Do you Sean ???

 

Anonymous
06-11-2004, 04:08 AM
Lyn, bravo! You are beyond psychoanalysis! We knew it all along, kid.

 

Anonymous
06-11-2004, 06:28 AM
Q: How many LaRouchites does it take to change a lightbulb?

A. Three. One to recruit it, one to brief it, and one to screw it up.

 

Kheris
06-11-2004, 07:19 AM
Xlcr - that item on evolution is priceless. Too bad the Academy forum is closed. And I notice the Larouchies are not spending much time here either. They remind me of children who take their toys and go home in a snit because they are sure the other guy isn't playing fair (i.e. letting them win).

Anon192 - I think Sean is busy in the mailroom. Besides, s/he told me what was what, so s/he picked up the toys and went home.

 

Bella
06-11-2004, 08:22 AM
I surely came to the right place....looking for information. But I am not an insider like most of you....and sometimes it is challenging to even to keep up with who the good guys are and who the bad guys are!

Sorry that "Tom" has never appeared on this post again. It leads me to believe that he may very well have been the person I knew and he is so angry with me and probably what I said....that he may never come back on here again.

NTL...I was wondering if anyone had given any thought to what is going to happen to all these people when there is no more LaRouche. And once I asked "Tom" if he knew what Plan B was? or who would take LaRouche's place when he died? It was the only time he was stumped for an answer. He said that only Mr. LaRouche knows the answer to that.

Do you think they are just going to fall back into the mainstream of society with little adjustment? I guess we need to not forget about those who will not be able to make their way again. And what we might be able to do to help. Alot of good programs are conducted without professionals on board. I have known many who have been helped in these programs, i.e., Delancey Street and the Depressive/Manic Depressive Society just to name two.

Could any of you tell me if LaRouche has more than the printing/graphics business to live off of? And if WorldSavings has anything to do with LaRouche.

 

Anonymous
06-11-2004, 08:45 AM
LOL Sean. Good one. You're a real chip off the block.

Send us to Kheris's site so we can see what her and her friends are like. What do we find when we get there? That she's a well-balanced, well-rounded person enjoying life and exploring her creativity and issues.

Guess that makes your evaluation of her and her poetry sort of, a lie. We know exactly what sort of credibility to give to your opinions.

 

Anonymous
06-11-2004, 09:15 AM
there is no Plan B.

those in the movement who tried to bring up Plan B with LHL got kicked out - mel klenetsky for example.

LHL absolutely forbids Plan B, because to even consider plan b is to implicitly say that lhl is not that essential to the human species after all - now you know why mel got kicked out.

the youth movement will die when lhl dies...the boomers never wanted the youth movement...because tom's lousy $50 a week + rent + utilities is coming out of the boomers' account..except for hausfrau helga...she has a retirement package and a nice piece of real estate in germany..no worries there.

when lhl dies...the youths will be parceled out like cattle among the remaining locals- some will go to this region, others will go to that region, and be used and withered away...except for a few cute young girls in the youth movement...for some reason their stipends will always come on time.

 

Anonymous
06-11-2004, 09:22 AM
Q. How many LaRouchies can you fit into a Volkswagen?

A. None...hausfrau helga's shopping bags took up all the space.

 

Anonymous
06-11-2004, 10:16 AM
What scares me is comparing what I know now (i.e., that LaRouche is 110% fraud, intellectually and otherwise) with what I "knew" then (i.e., that LaRouche is the greatest mind since Leibniz and present-day savior of the world). It scares me because I fear there is no way of communicating reality to those trapped in the cult of LHL. I had to "hit bottom" with LaRouche before I could even begin to steer clear of the wreckage my life had become; unfortunately, this appears to be the only way out of a cult - just to be honest with yourself about the desperation of your own personal situation and to walk into a counseling center or police station and ask for help out. The small stipends otherwise guarantee you will not be able to move away, and the fourteen-hour days + classes take your eyes off the bouncing ball of your pulverized life and ambition.

And let's keep the jokes coming! The devil cannot bear being ridiculed.

 

Anonymous
06-11-2004, 01:00 PM
Q: Why do Lyn and Helga enjoy walking over other people?

A: Because they have beautiful soles.



  • Q: Why does Lyn hate Cheney?

    A: Because Lyn never liked bush.


  • Q: Why does Lyn hate Kissinger?

    A: Because Kissinger doesn't have to worry about money.


  • Q: Why does Lyn hate everyone?

    A: Because he's beyond psychoanalysis.
 

Anonymous
06-11-2004, 07:10 PM
Q: What did Hausfrau Helga say when she lost her pony?
A: Lyn was right, the world really is coming to an end.

Q: How did Lyn explain Hausfrau Helga's spending habits to the org.
A: The financial system is doomed, money is not worth anything, so spending other people's money is sublime.

Q. What did Hausfrau Helga find out about Lyn on their wedding night?
A. Lyn can't perform without an audience.

 

Anonymous
06-11-2004, 08:33 PM
I think Lyn's shift from "Marxist" to "Democrat" was finalized when he ditched the bow tie for a cravat.

 

xlcr4life
06-12-2004, 07:58 AM
Anon 66 wrote:

"I think Lyn's shift from "Marxist" to "Democrat" was finalized when he ditched the bow tie for a cravat."

I think the shift took place when all that could be taken (money, bodies, trust funds) from the Marxists was taken. Always remember that LHL sets his sails to where the money is. We would print gibberish praising tin pot dictators if we thought that we could snag an EIR special project. If you study the grazing methods you will see that after you slash and burn one group like science or anti drug supporters, you move on to the next group. That is how we ended up with various kooks on the right and left. It is also how LHL got bamboozeled by con men who knew how to let him hear what he wanted to hear.

With the Iraq war, the new grazing and foraging is among Muslim and Arabic names if you see FEC lists.

As far as a successor. LHL with his genetics will outlive all of the older members through the horrendous stress he caused them. Helga will be the heir apparent. As one wise wag told me many years ago:
"The US org has never figured out that they are merely the fundraising arm of the Germans".

On a related note about humor. There was a young woman who was horribly abused in the West Coast. She had an idea of being a stand up comic. I suggested that she do a Jeff Foxworthy style routine and set up a card table shrine on a stage and call the show'
YOU MIGHT BE IN A CULT IF

-The leaders demand that you sell books and magazines about him, but never lets you read them first.

-The only people who have suffered an economic collapse are his supporters.

-His greatest economic theory, Debt Moratorium, became a reality when they borrowed 30 million from their supporters, and never paid it back.

-When you see men beating their wives, demanding they make money, throw a chair at them, and can't figure out whether you a are at a steering committee meeting or an MTV Rap video shoot.

-If you see a young guy with a big phone bill, a big credit card bill, sleeping 4 to a room and he dropped out of college, that is a Larouchey.

-If you see a young guy with a big phone bill, a big credit card bill, sleeping 2 to a room and he is in college for a degree, that is a college student who found a porno web site.

-If the dogs of Helga are being flown across the Atlantic for $5,000 dollars, and you are getting 35 bucks a week in the LYM.

-If the leader flies across the Atlantic on the Concorde for $8,000 a ticket, while poor Mike Billington is hustling a card table shrine at the JFK terminal for a 5 buck pay off at the end of the day.

-When you ask the LYM leader about "those Cuban frogman assasins from 1974" and you get a quick change of subject.

"When you notice that all of the authors of the stuff you are selling have left the group years and years ago.

-When LHL proudly proclaims that he has exposed more KGB agents in the org than Moscow has on the payroll.

-When a tired old dead ender tells you that the 20% undecided in the Democratic convention are secret LHL supporters.

-When the tires on the death trap cars are the same as the head of the washed up old dead ender telling you about how "LHL will be in the White House or Humanity will not survive"

you just might be in a cult.

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
06-12-2004, 09:19 AM
What is Hell?

Being forced to live with the consequences of your actions in this world. I wouldn't wish LHL's afterlife on any man. If God is just, LHL will relive the pain he's caused for eternity.

 

borisbad
06-12-2004, 09:30 AM
I look over at the Scientologist site on Factnet.org and think that LaRouche might be envious at how they can suck in even bigger names like Cruise and Travolta and run an even bigger brainwashing operation than LaRouche could conceive. It looks like the Scientologists get to even use 6 and 7 year olds to raise money and LaRouche only has the college kids.

I think LaRouche's biggest mistake was trying to portray himself as a political leader. If he ran a religious cult it would have been much easier to get people to believe, since nothing has to be empirically verified, and contributions would really be tax deductible, unlike contributions to Fusion Energy Foundation and the other LaR fronts.

And it also looks like the Scienies are better at suing those who criticize them publically than LaRouche has been with NBC, etc.

 

Anonymous
06-12-2004, 09:50 AM
sean...where are you...did we scare you?

or did lyn's poetry finally did the trick.

 

Anonymous
06-12-2004, 10:33 AM
Hey Kheris,

Checking out your website and you've got lots of LHL links because of Beltran. How about a link to this message board as well?

Sean seems to be worried about you and your friends being unstable so let's give him a more balanced view of reality.

 

Kheris
06-12-2004, 03:28 PM
For Anon198 - lots of LHL links is a subjective statement, and not necessarily accurate.

At this page - http://www.kheris.net/robert_beltran_reconnaissance.htm - there are 4 Larouche related links. Three are to Larouche sites and 1 is to an essay I wrote. The three Larouche links should lead the searcher to specific activities that Beltran participated in.

At this page - http://www.kheris.net/current_events.htm - there are three links involving Larouche. Two are to essays I wrote about Larouche, both footnoted to comments by Larouche himself. The third is an essay written by an Australian writer/journalist friend of mine that takes specific issue with H. Schlanger's discussion on culture from back in September 2001.

When I consider the totality of what constitutes my site, Larouche is but one of several subjects that have my interest. Considering the hyperbolic description by Sean Astin of my site, one is left wondering as to who is really suffering from delusions.

Putting up links to specific activities that RB has participated in provides opportunities for the listener/reader to reach their own conclusions about the relationship. Putting up a link to FACTNet itself has already occurred on my message board and there are posts here from visitors to said board.

For Borisbad - Scientology took on the IRS and the IRS lost. The outcome was a court settlement that allows the costs of certain Scientology courses to be deducted from federal taxes as 'training'. There is now a lawsuit pending involving a Jewish couple regarding the deductibility of tuition for classes in a Hebrew school, and citing the Scientology agreement as precedential. This should be quite a fight since the original agreement was supposed to be secret. Whatever one thinks of the Scientologists, I would have to agree that they are far more effective than Larouche in getting legal support for their actions.

 

Anonymous
06-12-2004, 05:51 PM
I just found out that Beltran is Chakotay! Sounds like he's still milling around in the Delta Quadrant by supporting Fearless Leader. Perhaps the LC should borrow the Borg lexicon when recruiting the yoot: you will be assimilated - resistance is futile!

 

Anonymous
06-13-2004, 12:34 AM
Below is an excerpt from LHL's self-opinion column on Reagan's passing...

This morning's press brought me stunning news: the death of U.S. President Ronald Reagan. Although we actually met on but one occasion, at Concord, New Hampshire, for a candidates' night, in January 1980, that meeting between us changed world history in ironical ways which are reverberating still today.

As you can see, all you have to do is have a little chat with LHL, and he'll think that your life was somehow blessed in a such a manner that, he "created" you....

 

Gandolphs Granddaddy
06-13-2004, 12:35 AM
Dear Kheris: For someone who complains so much about Lyn's ego and his verbosity, no one seems to outdo him in those categories, except for you. After having visited your website, one realizes your message board is mostly you talking about YOU and expounding ad nauseum YOUR opinions. For instance, your creative explorations page is mainly about your "poetry"—at least that is what you have the gall to call it! Your campaign 2004 section is probably the only interesting thing on your website. I guess you haven't found a way to center it around YOU just yet. And then of course there is your ongoing obsession with Robert Beltran. And now, I guess, a similar obsession with his brother Louie Cruz Beltran. Your hatred of LaRouche doesn't seem to keep you from admiring one of his most well known supporters, Mr. Beltran. Does this mean that you like Mr. Beltran in spite of LaRouche? Or is it the Gene Roddenberry in both of them that you just can't seem to do without? Which is it? Not that I would expect a logical explanation from a woman who is obsessed with the Lord of the Rings, sees Gene Roddenberry as a visionary, practices tarot, calls herself a witch, and is the author of the most incomprehensible "poetry" I've ever come across. Yes, I know that in your fantasy you think you are powerful enough to bring down the entire LaRouche organization by some black magic, hocus pocus. But, it seems your message board has only attracted a baker's dozen of like-minded weirdoes since its inception. Maybe all 13 of you, if you hold hands in a circle, will be able to cast some evil spell on LaRouche. But more than likely, it will just be a dykes-gone-wild orgy of impotence. So while LaRouche is actually trying to be a positive force for good in the world, you are living in a fantasy devoid of reality, devoid of real spirituality, and with seemingly no reason at all for you to be taking up space on this earth. Maybe you and your "journalist" friend are waiting for the Mother Ship to pick you up and deliver you to a planet where you are worshipped in a manner worthy or your vain-glorious self. I can tell you that you will never find that planet, but let's hope you find a padded cell where the rest of us can be protected from your ego and your poetry. Now you may order two or three of your minions to post a response on this board until you've come up with a half-assed retort. Beware Kheris, there is nothing I'd like more than to bring you down. On second thought, I won't need to. You are already as low-down as they get.

 

Anonymous
06-13-2004, 03:44 AM
Dear Gandolph,

"For someone who complains so much about Lyn's ego and his verbosity, no one seems to outdo him in those categories..."

You showed some glimmer of hope here...a trace of realizing what we have been trying to tell you about Lyn's ego problems.

"And then of course there is your ongoing obsession with Robert Beltran."

And also your ongoing obsession with Lyn being always right, or at least, the only, if not final, solution to humanity's problems.

"Yes, I know that in your fantasy you think you are powerful enough to bring down the entire LaRouche organization.."

The LaRouche organization was destroyed a long time ago....which is the reason why your stipend barely feeds you....in our fantasies, we are just mopping up leftovers.

"Maybe all 13 of you, if you hold hands in a circle, will be able to cast some evil spell on LaRouche.."

Actually, all we have to do is post messages to this forum. As you can see, our spell may not have reached the old geezer, but it sure got your attention long enough for you to post something....and 13 is more than the entire "intelligence" staff at the nat. office.

"dykes-gone-wild orgy of impotence..."

Impotent? Coming from someone from an org that virtually bans couples having kids...

March 12, 2009, at 03:22 AM

"the author of the most incomprehensible 'poetry'"

He is this,
Or perhaps that,
He understands,
You understand?

And guess which 'poet' wrote that?

"So while LaRouche is actually trying to be a positive force for good in the world..."

who's watching star trek now ????

"Now you may order two or three of your minions to post a response..."

Remember this line the next time you get shipped from one local to another because some other local is short of money and made a request to the nat. office. to send over something to use.

"Beware Kheris, there is nothing I'd like more than to bring you down.."

Don't make threats the yoot "movement" can't deliver boy. All you are permitted to do is shout into people's faces....you don't have permission from your superiors to innovate any tactics you like...the orders from the top are very clear....you come in for a bfg...then you go out and set up a table...shouting is permitted...and every now and then you go into a dem meeting or stand outside a lecture hall or walk into a cafetaria and shout some more...anything other than that..you ask for permission.

 

Anonymous
06-13-2004, 05:04 AM
Granddaddy exhibits the hysterical "mother's fears" that LHL (latent homosexual LaRouche) always tosses back at people who object to one of his rackets on the grounds of conscience. And in true homosexual fashion, GG (i.e., Tom, Covici, whatever) continues to focus on a sensitive, creative woman whom he perceives perhaps vulnerable to a crude display of his dementia in order to intimidate her into silence and self-doubt. Sure, that'll work, Einstein.

And it is the LaRouchites who are the haters: I hate the sin and not the sinner. I have made it very clear Lyn is a very sick individual; I don't hate him, merely rue the negative effect he has worked in the lives of so many intelligent, idealistic people who could have spent their time and talents in much more productive ways than drumming up dough in shady ways to keep LHL fueled with alcohol.

But evidently this message board is having its effect if it can elicit the witches impinging upon Granddaddy's preconscious. Maybe he's close to a breakthrough realization of how he is wasting his life.

 

xlcr4life
06-13-2004, 06:31 AM
So I guess that the answer to the question:

"WHOSE YOUR DADDY!"

Is answered the way I heard in meeting after meeting when I was in.

"Lyn"

You might be in a cult if......

xlcr4life

 

Kheris
06-13-2004, 09:01 AM
Gandolphs Grandaddy-

Most of what you posted is so Sean Astin. However;

practices tarot, calls herself a witch

Nice try, but I never call myself a witch because I do not practice any version of Wicca or its multitude of cousins. If I were to name a current spiritual guide, it would be Thomas Berry whose is a Catholic priest. The descriptions of the Major Arcana of the Tarot were written by a contributor. I am familiar with Tarot, but hardly a competent reader.

there is your ongoing obsession with Robert Beltran. And now, I guess, a similar obsession with his brother Louie Cruz Beltran

Robert hasn't done anything of note since The Big Knife, and I don't consider reviews obsessive. If that's your baseline then every reviewer on the face of the planet is obsessive. As for LCB, I haven't seen the man perform live in 2 years. Now if he releases another CD I'll have something listen to and talk about.

devoid of real spirituality

Care to define that one? Maybe you'd like to meet up at the Summer Institute at Holy Names College in Oakland at the end of July and take a look at what I call spirituality. Don't worry, no one will make you hug a tree. Apologies to the rest for the shameless plug.

Beware Kheris, there is nothing I'd like more than to bring you down. On second thought, I won't need to. You are already as low-down as they get.

Make up your mind. If you want a piece of me, go ahead and try. That assumes you have permission from whomever is holding your leash. The truth is, if you really had a beef with me and a legal method for dealing with it, you wouldn't be expending your energy in a public display of the worst that we can expect of a Larouchie. Though I am sure Harley is impressed.

 

Anonymous
06-13-2004, 07:52 PM
I doubt Gandolph is getting any brownie points from Harley. He's too good at making the org look dumb.

 

Anonymous
06-13-2004, 08:27 PM
Q: What did Phil and Harley say to Gandolph every morning after the am bfg...

A: Now go out there and fetch, boy....

 

Anonymous
06-14-2004, 04:39 AM
What enrages GG and the rest of his cabal is that they cannot shut down this forum as easily as they did the "Academy 2004" site. Also, note how GG assumes people are given orders to post on this site: another reflection on the quality of his own impoverished existence and understanding of reality. You see, GG, we are FREE. We come and go as we please, we make more or less money as we wish, sleep as much as we need - yes, such a world exists ... O freie Luft, den Athem leicht zu heben!

 

Anonymous
06-14-2004, 06:44 AM
GG thinks the world revolves around them. LHL is the sun and the planets are Harley and Beltran. That's all he can talk about so I don't think it's Kheris that's obsessed.

 

Anonymous
06-14-2004, 07:10 AM
So Harley is the U.S. heir apparent? Would he then inherit the Hausfrau, as Vivian Freyre got passed off to Nik when LHL was done with her? These potent people are shore mighty incestuous.

 

Anonymous
06-14-2004, 08:31 AM
harley is not the heir...i think it will be steinberg.

so...first there was janice larouche, then carol larouche (who then became carol white), vivian freyre larouche (who then became nik's...), and now hausfrau helga.

back when i was in the org, billington kept asking me...how many women have I recruited...over and over...now i know why women are so improtant to the org....

 

Anonymous
06-14-2004, 08:40 AM
the boomers in the org don't really like hausfrau..just like they didn't really want to waste money on a yoot "movement"...

but you can't say anything unfriendly to that housewife...it could cost you dearly...

so they put up with her antics....and swallow the fact that the US org is the fund raising arm for germans to live like they are in the renaissance.

once old geezer is gone...hausfrau will find out just exactly how sublime the americans think she really is...

 

borisbad
06-14-2004, 03:37 PM
It's interesting that every posting by a LaRouchie contains the same thread, attacking the opponent based upon issues involving masturbation, homosexuality and/or lesbianism. Small wonder that this goes back to the days when LaRouche wrote The Sexual Impotence of the Puerto Rican Socialist Party and the Case of Ludwig Fueurbach, which I doubt most of the present members read. Interesting after looking thru Fuerbach, Larouche faintly praised Descartes when he completely attacks him now. And the whole analysis that the problems of the members were based upon "mother love" which was the origin of man's "bestiality" and sexual impotence. It was interesting seeing the postings on the ex-iwp website linked to above.
I remember when LaRouche had the great insight that wearing any form of facial hair showed that the person involved was really identifying with his mother's pubic hair. This was part of the use of psychological degradation that started the NCLC on the long downhill road after things like MopUp.

I don't understand what's so significant about Beltran. He was decent in Startrek Voyager, but let's face it, the Scientologists have Tom Cruise and John Travolta for star power.

 

xlcr4life
06-14-2004, 04:38 PM
Borisbad wrote:

"I remember when LaRouche had the great insight that wearing any form of facial hair showed that the person involved was really identifying with his mother's pubic hair......I don't understand what's so significant about Beltran..."

There are some very early pictures of LHL in his Marxist days wearing a full beard in the 60's. But you are correct, the whole charade is to wear down the person so that the only thing that is left is devotion to LHL.

The only significance of Beltran is that we all know how the tragedy will end. He will end up over extended in debt financing some lunatic plan of the group, and end up bankrupt. He will isolate himself from his profession by denouncing everyone close to him as not caring about saving the human race.

There are several very sad stories of people who came into the LHL inner circle as supporters and left years later MILLIONS in debt, left by their families and now struggling against depression and regret.

Speaking of religion, there was quite a stir in the NYC National office when National leader Allen Salsibury in the 80's suggested that we start our own religion to solve the tax and wage problems.

Considering how many times LHL writes about himself as the chosen one and how he is in the garden of Gethesmene, Laroucheology seems like a viable option for the remaining dead enders and yutes.

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
06-14-2004, 06:51 PM
i met allen salibury's wife not too long ago...

she now works in the office at the nat. centre as an office lady..i.e. typing, data entry, filing documents, etc.

 

Anonymous
06-14-2004, 09:16 PM
I don't buy any of that LaRouche psychocrap, just use it for fun throwing it back in their hate-twisted, cleanshaven faces.

Allen Salisbury's wife once suggested out of the blue that a group of younger members had rape fantasies about her. When I told her to stop projecting and she blushed _I_ was the one told by an NC member still in the org to stop psychologizing.

Thus, my tactic ...

 

Anonymous
06-14-2004, 10:00 PM
billington (yes...the 77-year jail sentence crook) remarked a few times - when we were together - how "pretty" or "beautiful" some of the yoots were...incidelty, he makes his wife takes exercise class to lose weight...i guess after all the sublime and platonic love in the movement...it still boils down to sex.

 

Anonymous
06-14-2004, 10:03 PM
about salisbury's wife...i saw her a couple of years ago....those "fantasies" must have been a very, very long time ago...cause nowadays...after all those years in the cult...it's hard to believe anyone would take a second look at her....

 

Anonymous
06-15-2004, 02:39 AM
Even then, the thought was absurd, and was truly a case of projection.

 

Kheris
06-15-2004, 04:46 PM
I went cruising the web looking for the upcoming Children of Satan III pamphlet and found two links. A release with a cover shot is here. (http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/index.html)

A listing of Strategic Alerts is here. (http://www.eirna.com/cgi-local/alert) Select the most recent Strategic Alert to see the titles of the articles in the pamphlet including the 'Symons-Duggan Affair by Jeffrey Steinberg.' I wonder what the spin will finally look like.

So aside from running through the streets of DC this week in search of a card table shrine, does anyone know how I can get a copy or when it might show up online?

Anyon

 

Kheris
06-15-2004, 04:57 PM
Ooops! The second link isn't working right. Try this one (http://www.eirna.com/html/heads.htm) and select the English edition and then the Strategic Alert 25/2004.

And I promise I tested this one.

 

Anonymous
06-15-2004, 08:54 PM
the fact that steinberg was ordered by lhl to invent a conspiracy to explain off the duggan case goes to show that, the original gameplan to play stupid when the few newspaper reports about the case came out in the european press, didn't work out too well.

the frequent internet postings asking questions about duggan have gotten the youths in the lhl movement - if not asking questions - at least commenting about what they read.

hence, steinberg - who is one of lhl's most capable lackeys - has to conduct an investigate on the orders of lhl, based on the premise that the investigation must conclude with a connection between duggan and some so-called 'synarchist' - thus proving once agian that lyn was right - as usual.

it's a circular logic sort of thing - something like tom's silly axioms of posts past.

 

Kheris
06-15-2004, 09:16 PM
Ah!!! My LYM connection came through. Did he know I was wanting the pamphlet? Here it is (http://larouchein2004.net/pages/other/2004/040614cos3.htm).

I of course zipped right through to the Duggan case. This is just unbelievable except I have to remember who is writing this stuff. For reasons best known to the Larouchies (perhaps one will 'splain this to me) the information weaves the story of Jeremiah Duggan with activities in the Blair government. There is no indication of the connection, aside from perhaps the Baroness Symons. This is long, so apologies in advance. We all know how obsessive I can get. ;) My comments in italics

Some highlights from the timeline:

Early March, 2003: Jeremiah Duggan, a 22-year-old British student, meets LaRouche Youth Movement organizers in Paris at a book table, engages in a discussion, and takes some literature. Duggan is told about an international conference in Germany at the end of the month. He is particularly interested in LaRouche's strong opposition to the Cheney-Blair Iraq war and the imperial policies underlying that unjust invasion. Over the next several weeks, Duggan exchanges several email messages with LYM organizers, and arranges to travel to Germany for the conference.

several weeks? Barely a month actually.

March 27, 2003: Jeremiah Duggan, attending the Schiller Institute international conference and youth cadre school near Wiesbaden, Germany, is killed when he jumps in front of speeding cars on an autobahn. Wiesbaden police and prosecutors investigate the death, and conclude that Duggan committed suicide. Duggan had confided to his conference roommates, in his last days, that he was diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, an illness that can induce schizophrenic behavior, including paranoia. He had begun to show signs of emotional stress during the day before his suicide, March 26, and had fled the apartment where he was staying, March 27, at approximately 3:30 in the morning. When LYM organizer called Jeremiah's girlfriend Maya Villanueva in Paris, shortly after Duggan left the apartment, to see whether she had heard from him, she cynically asked, "Is there a river nearby?" Subsequently, both Erica Duggan and Maya Villanueva have failed, notably, to mention Jeremiah's diagnosed illness, fuelling the media fraud about the role of the Schiller Institute in his death. Erica Duggan has acknowledged to reporters that she, her divorced husband, and Jeremiah, had undergone group counselling at the Tavistock Clinic when Jeremiah was approximately 7 years old.

From The Guardian Article of July 2003: "Mrs Duggan and her husband, Hugo, travelled to Wiesbaden the next day, but felt the case was already closed. "They said he had psychological problems, because that is what Sebastian told them." "

I didn't find any other reference to the Tavistock Clinic anywhere, certainly not until this reference. Seems to me that given all the interest in Jeremy's state of mind the reporters would not have left out any hint that he was unbalanced. Interesting characterization of Maya's question as 'cynically.'

July 12, 2003: The London-based Guardian newspaper publishes the first smear story linking Lyndon LaRouche and the Schiller Institute to the suicide-death of Jeremiah Duggan. The author of the story, Hugh Muir, has, in the past, written stories based on information provided by so-called "anti-cult" groups affiliated with the AFF.

If it's a smear where are the lawyers?

July 21, 2003: BBC airs a slander on LaRouche and the Duggan suicide by Tim Samuels, under the headline, "Mother calls for inquiry into son's death."

Slander? Again, where are the lawyers?

Nov. 5, 2003: Coroner's inquest into Jeremiah's death occurs at Hornsey Coroner's Court. Dr. William Dolman, HM Coroner for North London, presides over the inquest. The British media claims that Dr. Dolman has "rejected" the German authorities' view that the death was a suicide. Statements attributed to Dr. Dolman suggest that evidence was presented at the inquest by AFF circles, making wild charges that the LaRouche organization is a dangerous cult, etc. British media coverage of the inquest includes interviews with Dennis King and with Chip Berlet. (Berlet, former Washington, D.C. bureau chief of High Times magazine, the semi-official publication of the drug legalization lobby in the U.S.A., was a leader of the National Student Association during the late 1960s, when it was exposed for having received CIA financing, in a Ramparts magazine exposé.)

"suggest that evidence was presented at the inquest by AFF circles" The vaunted Larouche Intel organization fails to confirm for a certainty? Boy are they slackers.

Nov. 11, 2003: Wiesbadener Kurier publishes an article challenging the coverage in the British media, and defending the assessment of the Wiesbaden Prosecutor's Office that Duggan's death was the result of suicide. Chief Prosecutor Dieter Arlet complains that it is "completely inexplicable how such a characterization could get into the media." A spokesman for the Prosecutor's office reports that the German Federal Police (BKA) had found that the British coroner's inquest had been closed, and that the British media coverage had misrepresented the findings of Dr. Dolman. Arlet says that, based on the BKA inquiry, there are "no grounds for us to reopen the investigation."

From the Daily Telegraph in September 2003: "German police files have exposed flaws in their own investigation into the mysterious death of a British student. Jeremiah Duggan, from Golders Green in north London, died last March in Wiesbaden after allegedly running into the path of two vehicles

The Telegraph has obtained a copy of the German police's report into Mr Duggan's death. It reveals a number of errors, assumptions and contradictions that suggest an inadequate investigation into a suspicious death.

It also shows that the police took no official signed statements from witnesses, failed to carry out an autopsy and decided within hours that Mr Duggan had committed suicide by throwing himself in front of the vehicles.

The report gives only a cursory account of the version of events given to the police - one which conflicts with that given by Mr Duggan's family. Evidence from witnesses is recorded as brief, sometimes contradictory, notes."

And the prosecutor doesn't see a problem with this? Or is he suggesting The Telegraph didn't have the documents it claims to have obtained? It can't be that hard to release the actual documents if the Telegraph's are fakes.

Feb. 12, 2004: BBC News airs further slanderous coverage of the Duggan affair by Tim Samuels.

Maybe Larouche doesn't have lawyers!

May 20, 2004: Corriere della Sera Sunday magazine publishes a lengthy, vicious slander against LaRouche, centered around interviews with Erica and Hugo Duggan, by writer Agostino Gramigna.

Maybe Larouche fired the lawyers when he lost against Chip Berlet. By the way I searched the Corriere's web site by author and otherwise. The article doesn't show, so at this point I am guessing that it is not online. The author search did bring up an article from 2001, which leads me to believe the online version is not carrying the referenced article. However if anyone can point me to it, please do.

Lots of alleged slander and not a legal eagle in sight. This is a pathetic attempt to link the death of a student to unrelated activities in the Blair government in order to deflect critical questions as to what really happened in March 2003. It's not that surprising given the underlying history.

 

Anonymous
06-16-2004, 12:23 AM
Hi,

From the Satan III...

May 23, 2004: Members of the LaRouche Youth Movement, distributing an "Open Letter to the Washington Post" by Lyndon LaRouche, in front of the Washington Post building in downtown Washington, D.C., encounter Michael Winstead. Winstead had briefly infiltrated the Baltimore chapter of the LYM, only to abruptly leave the group, and circulate a series of slanders. Accompanied by a Washington Post photographer, Winstead boasts to LYM organizers that he is working for the Post on a forthcoming slander on LaRouche and LYM, which will also heavily feature the Duggan suicide. (When Winstead departed from Baltimore, he left behind a large collection of pornography, which he had downloaded from the Internet.)

Scott, your efforts are beginning to take effect. The org is now openly slandering you. They are even blaming you for the pornograpy collection Lyn accidently left behind, as well as using words like "infiltrated". Btw....infiltration is the sort of thing the lhl movement does very well.

for example, gail billington was ordered to infiltrate mcgeorge bundy's office as a secretary, and kathy wolfe infiltrated drexel burnham lambert as a gold analyst.

When LYM organizer called Jeremiah's girlfriend Maya Villanueva in Paris, shortly after Duggan left the apartment, to see whether she had heard from him, she cynically asked, "Is there a river nearby?" Subsequently, both Erica Duggan and Maya Villanueva have failed, notably, to mention Jeremiah's diagnosed illness, fuelling the media fraud about the role of the Schiller Institute in his death. Erica Duggan has acknowledged to reporters that she, her divorced husband, and Jeremiah, had undergone group counselling at the Tavistock Clinic when Jeremiah was approximately 7 years old.

Seems that the org is going all out to slander Duggan, Duggan's girlfriend, and Duggan's mother. LHL is calling Duggan mentally unstable, his girlfriend as cynical, and his mother as an implicit liar. No wonder so many people call LaRouche a fascist...

We all know the org's tactics to get a recruit. And the tactics get meaner if the person doesn't show any sign of "coming around".

If Duggan had been unstable, as alleged by LHL, then the tactics of the org contributed to his death, by reason of irresponsibility on the part of the org. The fact that no one told the org about any alleged unstability does not excuse the fact that the org engages in pressure tactics, such as breaking up meetings, etc. which could lead to the injury of others - intentional or otherwise.

By insisting that Duggan is mentally unstable - as the LaRouche cult is doing - and based on what we know about the cult's tactics - the cult has impliclty more or less explained what happened that night - the LaRouche cult got Duggan to attend an isolated camp - tried to recruit Duggan using pressure tactics - and when Duggan showed no sign of coming around - kept up the pressure with personal attacks (i.e. Lyn's mother's fears, etc.), and the pressure drove Duggan to his death. LaRouche is guilty.

The pamphlet is a testament to the cynicism and the extent of implicit lying the LaRouche cult is willing to go.

First, the cult tried to ignore what they triggered (i.e. Duggans' alleged suicide), now that the heat is on, they slander everyone without any consideration for anyone - except themselves.

And worst of all, a major contributor to the satan III is barbara boyd...

 

Anonymous
06-16-2004, 04:58 AM
According to a German press report...Duggan called - at 4.00 o'clock it in the morning - his friend Maya in Paris, and spoke of being in major difficulties. He also said to his mother in London on telephone that he was in big trouble and wants to get away.

Hence, the need for LaRouche to slander Maya and the mother.

Mrs. Ortrun Kramer was in the possession of the passport of the deceased, whereas Duggan's other personal articles were at the place he slept - the house of the Apels.

Rainer Apel and Ortrun Kramer are long time German members of the LHL cult.

How Ortrun Kramer ended up with Duggan's passport is not explained.

Furthermore, Duggan's alleged suicide involved throwing himself in the path of a small car...questions were raised that if he was indeed suicidal, there were numerous other opportunities to do so, instead of waiting and running so far away till he reached the spot he died.

..unless of course he was being pursued...or as Lyn would like you to believe...tavistock programmed him to jump in front of a car.

 

Anonymous
06-16-2004, 07:29 AM
Update of the old, "the devil made me do it": "the __________ (Fourth International, Rockefellers, British, Venetians, oligarchs, synarchists, etc.) made me do it" when it's all just Lyn: duper and duped, compulsive user and abuser of others, felon - and his ragamuffins: wife-beaters, tin-plate ragers, cases charity, mental, and otherwise - who do it.

 

borisbad
06-16-2004, 10:57 AM
Interesting parallels?
I was doing a search and ran across an article about NXIVM or Executive Success which appears to be a Lifespring or EST type cult aimed at corporations. There was a story about a member, Kristin Snyder, from Alaska, who apparently committed suicide in circumstances quite similar to that of Jeremy Duggan. She previously had been a respected business person in the Anchorage area with an MBA, etc. She got involved in this cult and about four months later killed herself in a kayaking accident.

I love what LaRouche had to say about the passing of Pres. Reagan. He spoke with him for about five minutes, and if I recall the key point of agreement was that they were both shilling for the NRA in their presentation. Of course, in LaRouche's mind, this meant he had a significant inroad into the future president's inner sanctorum.

Speaking of New Hampshire, my recollection of the New Hampshire campaign in 1980 was that we made great efforts to bring senior citizens to campaign events based upon taking them by car and feeding them free food. (not that that was too different from what the other candidates did). We also tried to get many people to sign absentee ballots in advance "in order to prevent fraud" or perhaps people changing their minds after they "agree" to vote for us.

 

HM Locke
06-16-2004, 01:57 PM
This is where anyone looking for Jeremiah Duggan clues should go. The Beyond psyche papers. A couple years ago the "movement" got really excited about "Beyond Psyche" and taught everyone how to f--- with people's minds. The method works. I've seen it. A shortcut to breaking people mentally, however, as we all have noted, the process is safely undertaken in the NCLC...

These are the direct words of Lyn Marcus, aka Lyndon LaRoach.

"The program is safely undertaken in the NCLC, where it could not be so with laymen, since the LCer has a self-conscious identity in the world, which the ordinary laymen lacks. Under some unfortunate circumstances, this experience, absolutely the most terrifying the human mind can know, can prompt suicides, or provide the impetus for psychotic collapse"


Well I guess NCLC (National Committe of Labor Caucuses) needs to be updated to ICLC (International CLC)--Jeremiah safely undertook his Psychoanalysis in Germany

 

Anonymous
06-17-2004, 06:37 AM
LaRouche's tactics are summarized below...

MASS ORGANIZING TACTICS
(excerpted from Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky, pp. 126-140;)

Tactics mean doing what you can with what you have. Tactics are those conscious deliberate acts by which human beings live with each other and deal with the world around them. In the world of give and take, tactics is the art of how to take and how to give. Here our concern is with the tactic of taking; how the Have-Nots can take power away from the Haves.

For an elementary illustration of tactics, take parts of your face as the point of reference; your eyes, your ears, and your nose. First the eyes; if you have organized a vast, mass-based people's organization, you can parade it visibly before the enemy and openly show your power. Second the ears; if your organization is small in numbers, then...conceal the members in the dark but raise a din and clamor that will make the listener believe that your organization numbers many more than it does. Third, the nose; if your organization is too tiny even for noise, stink up the place.

Always remember the first rule of power tactics:

Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have.

The second rule is: Never go outside the experience of your people. When an action is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear, and retreat.

The third rule is: Wherever possible go outside of the experience of the enemy. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat.

The fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.

The fourth rule carries within it the fifth rule: Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.

The sixth rule is: A good tactic is one that your people enjoy. If your people are not having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic.

The seventh rule is: A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time, after which it becomes a ritualistic commitment...

The eighth rule: Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.

The ninth rule: The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.

The tenth rule: The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition.

The eleventh rule is: If you push a negative hard and deep enough it will break through into its counterside; this is based on the principle that every positive has its negative...

The twelfth rule: The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. you cannot risk being trapped by the enemy in his sudden agreement with your demand and saying "You're right--we don't know what to do about this issue. Now you tell us."

The thirteenth rule: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.

In conflict tactics there are certain rules that the organizer should always regard as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and "frozen." By this I mean that in a complex, interrelated, urban society, it becomes increasingly difficult to single out who is to blame for any particular evil. There is a constant, and somewhat legitimate, passing of the buck....

It should be borne in mind that the target is always trying to shift responsibility to get out of being the target....

One of the criteria in picking your target is the target's vulnerability--where do you have the power to start? Furthermore, the target can always say, "Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?" When you "freeze the target," you disregard these arguments and, for the moment, all others to blame.

Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all of the "others" come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target.

The other important point in the choosing of a target is that it must be a personification, not something general and abstract such as a community's segregated practices or a major corporation or City Hall. It is not possible to develop the necessary hostility against, say, City Hall, which after all is a concrete, physical, inanimate structure, or against a corporation, which has no soul or identity, or a public school administration, which again is an inanimate system.

[He says your target should be a person in the organization you are opposing; a face within the opposition for you to focus on; it must be someone with power within the organization, like the CEO, school superintendent, governor, or something like that.]

 

Hemlock
06-17-2004, 11:31 AM
That's not really a very good description, however I will relate a classic tale that describes it much better:

In the time of Plato there were others who attempted to be of his ilk, but their greed and hnger for power led them to be much lesser men. One of these was Fullo****teus Laroachicus, here is a dialogue copied down by a student, Brainwashtius Tomicus:


"I am Fullo****teus Laroachicus, and I am here to tell you that should you not sacrifice your cow to the gods next week the Universe will come crashing down on your head! Sacrifice that cow and leave it at my front gate, where my servants shall roast it (as according to the gods), and I and my family shall feast upon it to cleanse this village of its sin, and please the gods, Economicus Collapicus, and Universus Physicallus Principallus--these gods you do not understand, but luckily I, Fullo****teus can explain these things to you in ways that will make you feed me as all village folk should. By the way, do you have any wine to sacrifice????

 

Anonymous
06-17-2004, 12:10 PM
Hysterical! Reminds me of the two books that come closest for me to replicating the feel of "life" in the organization: George Orwell's _Animal Farm_ and Arthur Koestler's _Darkness at Noon_. Reread those if you want to feel gales of gratitude for being free. We are the ones who have truly been liberated from Plato's cave, from Pizzaro's prison, and we should exult in our freedom from that mind-numbing, spirit-stabbing poison we so foolishly thought Truth and Justice. I just could never listen to all the well-wishers who told me what a fool I was ...

 

Hemlock
06-17-2004, 01:52 PM
hey anon send me an e-mail H_M_Locke@yahoo.com

 

Anonymous
06-17-2004, 04:19 PM
Try watching Disney's "Something Wicked This Way Comes" or read Ray Bradbury's book. LHLs methods aren't original just sick.

 

Anonymous
06-18-2004, 10:09 AM
Debunking LaRouche Myths.

Lyn likes to brag about how he "forecasted" the collapse of the Bretton Woods which happended in 1971.

This is an outright lie by laRouche.

The Bretton Woods system was in trouble right from its inception, and its demise anticipated as early as 1962.

Read...

The Monetary Sin of the West by Jacques Rueff.

The edition i have was published in 1972, but it details the on-going discussions of the problems of Bretton Woods, starting from the 50s. Rueff was the French economics/financial minister in the 60s.

Another LaRouche myth is that LaR made the connection between the creative human mind and economic wealth. This is also another lie.

Read henry George's "Science of Political Economy" at http://www.henrygeorge.org/science/speindex.html

This is a quote from chap. 1..

"Endowed with reason, and then deprived, or all but deprived, of instinct, man differs from other animals in being the producer. Like them, for instance, he requires food. But while the animals get their food by taking what they find, and are thus limited by what they find already in existence, man has a power of getting his food by bringing it into existence. And so it is with the fulfillment of all his wants; the satisfaction of all his desires. By the use of his animal powers, man can cover perhaps as much ground in a day as can a horse or a dog; he can cross perhaps about as wide a stream. But by virtue of the power that makes him the producer he is already spanning continents and oceans with a speed, a certainty and an ease that not even the birds of most powerful wing can rival.

As this power, which we call reason, rises in man, nature withdraws the light of instinct and leaves him to his own devices -- to rise or fall, to soar above the brute or to sink lower. For as the Hebrew Scriptures have phrased it, his eyes are opened and before him are good and evil. The ability to fall, no less than the ability to rise -- the very failures and mistakes and perversities of man -- show his place and powers. There is among the brutes no drunkenness, no unnatural vice, no waste of effort in accomplishing injurious results, no wanton slaughter of their own kind, no want amid plenty. "

this was published in the late 19th century btw.

...as you can see, LaRouche lifts other people's work and gives the credit to himself...just like a typical college student at the bottom of his class would do.

in conclusion, lyn did not originate the connection between reason and economics, nor waqs he the first to "forecast" the demise of bretton woods, nor did he originate the idea of beam weapons to shoot at nuclear missiles.

but lyn is very good at telling jokes...this i can confirm even after only attending 2 of his conferences.

 

Anonymous
06-18-2004, 01:02 PM
From the very beginning, what I found fishy in the LaRouche-eye view of history, was the sense I got that, for instance Ben Franklin was sending people out on deployments, Leibniz was buzzing around Europe "briefing" the various heads of his network, which one had the impression resembled the Labor Committees, that Plato's Academy was a cadre school, after which the ephebes would run out and organize down on the Piraeus as the ships came in (kind of like organizing at the JFK terminal), and so forth. Initially I resisted all the conspiracy crap too, but because my two heroes were Beethoven and Marx, and I thought here was an organization which represents those values, I eventually went along just to be able to fight for these values.

As much as I have disparaged Lyn on this site, I must say (so perhaps I am still a tad brainwashed) that _Dialectical Economics_ is an absolutely brilliant (not necessarily true) book. If Lyn had stuck to the U.S. Labor Party and D.E. and the FEF, I would probably go back in and fight for all that. But now that for twenty-five years he wants to be some kind of Everyman to political wackos of all stripes, it just exposes him as a secular Elmer Gantry. It's a shame, because sometimes I muse starting an organization based on D.E. and reappropriating the name, U.S. Labor Party. But then I'd have to spend all my time disentangling myself from Lyn's antisemitism, etc.

 

Anonymous
06-18-2004, 07:11 PM
this is what fred newman (another cult leader...fred was running with lhl briefly in the early 70s) wrote about D.E. in the 70s.

fred and lyn were both communists then...so expect a lot of marxist terminology....

i don't necessarily agree with fred, but it is interesting to note that even as early as 30 years ago...lhl's work was beign criticized as circular logic...

lhl's true brilliance lies in conjuring up stories to make believe that he is brilliant...not in ideas.

Dialectical Economics is a tiresomely prolonged attack on reductionism and a defense of some of the worst features of Hegelianism which, among its many manifestations, spawned 19th and 20th century vitalism. The book is primarily about dia1ectics and the economics is sparse and repetitive though the insight (by no means original but nonetheless insightful vis-à-vis the fundamental antimony between real production and capitalist accumulation is of real value.

Marcus-LaRouche's economics without class struggle becomes apparent early in the book in a chapter appropriately enough entitled "What' is Economics?"

He correctly points out that all economic analysis draws a dualistic distinction between price and use value and that the difference between economic analyses lies in the differing answers, to the question "What is the relationship between price and use-value?"

Marcus-LaRouche then sets up the pattern for the whole book by moving to a not so profound attack on the reductionistic approach of the econometricians—Von Neuman, Morgenstern, etc.—pointing out that they believe that there is a mathematically coherent relationship between price and use-va1ue. What Marcus-LaRouche doesn't explain is the extent to which these bourgeois scientists determine use-value by employing price conceptions, thereby artificially resolving the fundamental antagonism between the two. This anti-scientific technique "works" (in a manner of speaking) for relatively short periods of time since t accurately mirrors bourgeois economic practice.

Marcus-LaRouche locates the birth of industrial capitalism historically in the Spanish bankruptcy wherein the financing of the looting operation of the New world through the European banking houses vastly exceed the capacity of the borrowers to extract loot from the material resources (including the population) of the New World. Mercantilism—which Marcus correctly contends is not a form of capitalism—was able to deve1op real wealth (via direct looting) far faster than the feudal mode of production but not nearly so fast as the rate of debt of the Spanish monarchy in their financing the development of the looting operations. Mercantilism therefore served as a stimulus to the development of a new mode of production (industrial or real capitalism) which would be able "to keep up with" the accumulating paper build-up of mercantilism. In actuality, then, it, was mercantilism's breakdown crisis via the unlimited run-away financing of the limited run-away looting operation which provided the historical economic and political context in which humanistic (progressive) development, i.e., capitalist development, took place. Mercantilism cleaned house by bankruptcy and thus "completed" the now famous boom-bust cycle which is the epiphenomenal essence of capitalism. Thus viewed, we see that capitalism emerged historically as the "solution" to a breakdown crisis and therefore we are better able to correctly identify the actual nature of capitalism's antagonisms.

Now Marcus' "history" is enlightening and of value in understanding the development and the nature of capitalism. Yet it is "history" in the tradition of Hegel, not Marx. It provides a conceptually coherent accounting of capitalism's genesis, not in terms of the sensuous historical struggles of class-in-conflict, but instead abstract elements of the rational analyses of Marx's Capital and Luxemburg's Accumulation (as well as some of Veblen's writings) and, with these abstractions in hand, interpretively analyzes "what must have happened" and identifies the result as history. Not all interpretations are equally competent as any honest Freudian will tell you. LaRouche's interpretive history is of real value in that he practices his Hegelianism well. But interpretive history cannot be confused with Marxist scientific history.

Marcus-LaRouche argues that the advantage of his "historical" (what is actually metaphysical) approach is that it points the way to recognizing the "true" physical laws of nature (actually metaphysical) and, what is central to understanding these laws, the invariant of Progress. What LaRouche has in fact done in the best idealistic tradition of vicious circularity is to actually employ the conceptions he means to estab1ah in his interpretive Hegelian "history" and then employ the resulting "history' to justify his "science." He thus parallels the methodological errors of von Neumann and Morgenstern from the socialist side of the ledger. Marcus-LaRouche does not scientifically establish the invariance of Progress, he speculatively presumes it, turning vaguely to passages of Marx's early writings to authorize his speculations and writes "history from the perspective of Progress and then employs his "history" to justify his "scientific" claim support of Progress.

(http://www.ex-iwp.org/docs/1975/Witchdoctory.htm)

 

Anonymous
06-18-2004, 07:16 PM
lyn actually owes a lot to hegel and kant...though nowadays he pretends to have "identified" kant's errors early in life...early in his life, lyn was worshipping even descartes...

anyway, here i swhat happened to the first larouche youth movemnt...alos taken from the iwp site.

The RYM Fiasco

Following on the heels of Mop-Up, NCLC plunged, into organizing ghetto youth, in an effort to build a quick mass movement to bolster its new-found "Left hegemony." The Revolutionary Youth Movement (RYM—not to be confused with the SDS factions by that name) organizing was foreshadowed by Marcus in his early April speech mandating Mop-Up. Typically presenting his tactical decision as a fait accompli, Marcus had used it (in "behavior-shaping" fashion) to squelch any squeamishness among the members about Operation Mop-up: "You think this CP stuff is scary, well, I'll tell you something, that's really gonna scare you. In a few, months we're gonna have 10,000 enraged, ghetto youth, we're gonna organize street gangs…"

Soon a special corps of NCLC'ers, mostly black, was commissioned to begin organizing gang youth, striving to "ruthlessly" break through the "ghetto hustle," converting ghetto youth from wanting to rip off the corner grocery store, e.g., to wanting to "take it all." Marcus personally took this group of NCLC'ers under his wing, "steeling" them psychologically for the task ahead (i.e., turning them into blithering sycophants of Marcus).

In his keynote speech at the May 25 NCLC national conference, Marcus declared that his ruthless method of ghetto organizing was going to succeed where other Left groups—the Young Lords, Workers League, etc.—had failed. With his characteristic hyperbole, he declared, "If we don't succeed in this, we'll have to find another planet." But given the very weak roots NCLC had in the working class, the massive campaign to recruit ghetto youth—by cutting through their "pure rage," and "organizing" that rage—was a hopeless adventure, smacking of New Left opportunism. Still, the bungling and disorganizing way the NCLC approached the ghetto indeed "outdid" the performance of the other groups. Thus today, large sections of the ghetto populations of New York and other cities are implacably hostile and cynical towards not only NCLC, but all communist organizing—an easy target for the CIA-type, counterinsurgent, social-control programs that NCLC claimed it was combatting.

Despite grand pretenses of uplifting ghetto youth to become revolutionary intellectuals and part of the working class-for-itself, the RYM "organizing" that actually occurred was criminally degraded, propitiatory and parochial. The NCLC "RYM organizers" generally lumpenized themselves—to the point of donning leather jackets and talking in ghetto cadence—in order to approach gang youth, and organized the gangs as ('red") gangs. No serious efforts were made to integrate the youthful recruits with other NCLC members—to say nothing of the working class contacts around NCLC. The RYM organizers, far from confronting the "ghetto turf" mentality of the youths in a revolutionary way, dissolved themselves into it, and with disastrous results. When the inevitable frame-ups of RYM members came down late in 1973, NCLC responded sluggishly and incompetently, mobilizing a feeble and abortive defense effort—thus landing the framed-up RYM members in jail. Deep distrust towards their "Promethean" organizers began setting in among the few dozen RYM members.[24]

Meanwhile the regular NCLC members, most of whose contact with the RYM cadres came only in defense training and ghetto rallies, began to look upon the RYM'ers as their military auxiliary—an attitude which the RYM members quickly began to sense. At a September 3 meeting of the New York NCLC membership, a RYM member, objecting that the constant ghetto rally mobilizations were pulling him out of school; bitterly complained, "RYM is the goons for the Labor Committee."

The upshot of the brewing NCLC-RYM antagonisms was that, in early 1974, several RYM members turned overtly against NCLC, attacking their offices, stealing and robbing money, etc. And, instead of critically examining the total failure of the RYM organizing, NCLC, which was by now well into its hysterical "mass brainwashing" phase, dismissed all the incidents as products of "CIA brainwashing."

 

Anonymous
06-19-2004, 05:44 AM
In terms of the organization's shibboleths of the time, there is little for me to argue with: the Idea of Progress, field- versus particle- approach, revival of classical culture, a methodology which stressed return to original sources, and many other things. Unfortunately, simultaneous with this, in the same mind with the originator of this, was an emotionally twisted child who needed everyone around him to be with him 110%. I don't think even today Lyn understands life, which is an unending journey from the head to the heart. And there he is, all walled up in his own head, his emotions frozen into the single one of prideful hate, walled up in booze in sycophancy. Many of us I guess rushed to embrace the positive and didn't have the life skills or wisdom that the man as a whole was a train wreck ... which is why he sought out the 18-25 y.o. crowd - they didn't know how bizarre he was in comparison with his chronological peers. I still think if he were to publicly come clean on a lot of his s---, I'd start hanging around again, because there is no one organization that stands up today for progress in a coherent manner.

 

Anonymous
06-19-2004, 07:46 AM
Want to get some help understanding LHL and how to deal with him? Head over to http://www.bpdcentral.com

 

Anonymous
06-19-2004, 10:33 AM
To anon 66,


"there is no one organization that stands up today for progress in a coherent manner."

the organization that you are referring to was destroyed a long time ago. the current "organization" may sometimes read like the old organization, but its purpose is no longer "progress". the current org is now the personal vehicle of Lyndon "MY IMMORTALITY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR MONEY" LaRouche.

it is no longer concerned with progress ...at least not in a rational sense. it is now merely a "LaRouche is the only solution to save humanity" loudspeaker...with some articles on progress thrown in to fill up the empty pages.

 

Anonymous
06-19-2004, 01:38 PM
I agree, anon 192, especially beginning with the "American System" stuff which was an irrational bud off the Marxist tree, which I now see in retrospect as a way of squeezing the Carto types for dough, just as the antisemitic crap was to further entice those nuts. I think Lyn was for real until Carol left him, then he went nuts and off on Rocky, then he became cynical and just decided in the end to play a game with the lives and destinies of people.

One mistake we should never make is that by turning our back on the LC, we do not turn our back on Beethoven, Cantor, et al. - they are not the property of the ICLC. Even when in the organization, really exulting in the poet of freedom, Schiller I would feel like puking when that butterface Helga would get up and tearfully run on about beauty ... all the while - as someone remarked above and as I was also told at the time - the US org was getting up at 6AM so the EAP could get up at noon.

This is perhaps the nuttiest idea I've had since I was in that organization: wouldn't it be something if a group of ex-LCers who are not implacably opposed to what they formerly espoused (such as exmembers who are NOT now Greenies, for example) could have a congress and sort out what from all that we could salvage and use as a basis for action, even present it to Lyn (who of course would reject it out of hand as a product of the enemy du jour, I guess now, the "syndicalists") - I mean, for such a supposed "genius" can't he get it through his fat head that there are many former members who believe in much of what he putatively represented? that we are not "agents", simply people monstrously abused and disappointed? that perhaps the best people he had are outside, and that those inside are the uncreative drones? that perhaps if anyone is an agent, it would be those around him at present when there's no longer any there there? ...

Now I know I'm off my rocker ... but I just had to dream ... Lyn may be one of those I've observed so often in life who don't even know who his true friends are: Lyn, true friends are not yes men! Get with the program, you old ----.

 

Anonymous
06-19-2004, 01:40 PM
P.S. Fred Newman was a third-rate knockoff LaRouche, and could never come close to matching Lyn's intelligence, Marxist pedigree, or erudition.

 

Kheris
06-19-2004, 02:23 PM
I agree regarding the statements on culture, Beethoven, Schiller, etc. LHL does not own those ideas nor does he own the only way to interpret and appreciate the past and its contributions. Nor is his interpretation the only foundation for the future. There is much that is wrong that needs to be righted, but LHL is not the one to lead the way. It's too bad he isn't willing to sit back and become the leader emeritus, and let someone else with the vision and the capability to actualize it take the helm.

 

Anonymous
06-19-2004, 09:20 PM
Dear anon 66,

What you said about Fred Newman is true...the Newman cult also has people setting up tables by the street full-time, and Newman's much-younger wife Hazel Daren is the Hausfrau of the IWP.

As for Lyn "coming around"....i think that is pretty much a foregone conclusion. I think even before carol left him, he was already having psychological "issues".

I think it might have had something to do with the fact that during WW2, he was placed in an Army camp for objectors to the draft. The camp he was put into was for "marxists". Lyn's parents were NOT apolitical. They were "socialists", and it is reasonable to assume that Lyn was indoctrinated by them in "marxism".

However, in the "marxist" camp, there are/were many factions, some more hostile to each other than to "capitalists".

Lyn was a teenager then, and the army placed him in a virtual concentration camp without any regards for which faction is fighting which faction.

imagine, a blood being placed in a blockhouse full of crips.

what the other older interns did to Lyn during that time is still difficult to assess. Lyn may have been psychological gang-raped. Lyn's tendency to psychological abuse those around him points to this.

as in the certain cases of child abuse, the child who was abused "grows up" to be an abuser later on in life.

I'm afraid i no longer have any sympathy or respect for LaRouche. LaRouche may be clever, but if you factor in the damage he has done as foolishness, then i think the scale - if not even - tips in favor of foolishness - on Lyn's part.

there is much to be salvaged from what's left of the movement - but then again - did the movement "originate" cantor, beethoven, etc...or were these works available all along..long before the movement even existed.

the movement - FEF, etc. did do good, and whatever good it did should be credited to it...but Lyn is as much an idiot as he is a genius...and the world's greatest economist he ain't.

respectfully,

anon 192.

 

Anonymous
06-20-2004, 12:33 AM
Thanks for dousing me with cold water. You're right of course. I was just suffering heat stroke.

I could never figure out what the "LaRouche-Riemann method" was anyway in terms of concrete detail. I rather had the impression that when they were touting their forecasts to potential clients (i.e., victims), Goldman would cook the books so to speak to make sure the numbers came out right. And of course their "hybris" (i.e., bad manners) is the tip off that there was no genuine search for truth going on in any event.

 

xlcr4life
06-20-2004, 06:36 AM
Anon 66 wrote:
"And of course their "hybris" (i.e., bad manners)"


I am certain you mean "Hubris". In retrospect, the group had its own lexicon which is often the case with cults. If you REALLLY wish to scare yourself, find a copy of:

"Bare Faced Messiah, the story of L. Ron Hubbard"

I read that book one day after finding it on a close out table. The invisible hand guided me to pick it up. You will find so many similarities to LHL and Hubbard that it is a great text book in how a cult/shyster works.

When you read the selections of the paranoia, the massive security blackhole expenses, the hatred of the British and psychiatry, the emphasis on creating sycpohants, it will give you the heebie jeebies.

What I found fascinating is how Hubbard wanted every one to be "Clear" in Scientology speak, after giving up all mental and monetary ownership.

LHL used the word "Blocked". As in "The reason you could not hit quota is because you are blocked. Let us use Beyond Psychoanalyis to unblock you". LHL would often berate his sycophants by boasting that he is the only "Unblocked" human on Earth. He would also wish that he was blocked to experience what his mere mortal sycophants were going through, to better understand them.

The present Larouchologists have never gotten to that unblocked state 24/7 as LHL proclaims. They have mastered an LHL scientific breakthrough I call:

THE 6 DEGREES OF LYNDON LAROUCHE

Here is how it works. You take any person or historical fact. You then in six or less connections connect it to your present fill in the blank enemy. So in 1974, you could connect David Rockefeller in six or less steps to drug runnning, genocide, rock music, economic collapse, gays, depression etc.

In the late 70's and 80's you did this with the British. Early 1980's you had the Russian Orthodox Church. You can take any person like Kissinger, The Queen, The CFR, the Trilateral Commmision, Dick Cheney etc.

If you read the Children of Satan exerpts, you will see how it works. Decades after leaving, I can read the gibberish and fully understand the vernacular.

The Six degrees of LHL also work in reverse. When the cult is on a Catholic kick, every thing that is good can be traced to the Church in less than 6 degrees. Plato, Aristotle, Babylon, the Oligarchy, the Venetians, the Knights of Malta, hell, I can go on and on.

When the party is over with a person or group, then you can use the 6 degree principal to now show how they were part of an all encompassing evil conspiracy since the time the first primitive humans took a baby step.

Now this works on the members because you have so isolated them from reality via the control of their lives, that the axioms work. What most members find out after leaving is that there are numerous charitable, artistic and political organisations which do tremendous work. When you have complete control over a person's life, you can name an individual as an evil person knowing that almost everyone in the group has never heard, read or seen the person's work or life.

This is so ingrained in present LHL dead enders, that you can not invite them to family parties or see them maintain a casual relationship with other human beings. Time after time you take a dead ender and place them in a social situation and they can not resist beginning the 6 degrees of LHL principal on anything. That is why it some times takes an ex member a few years to unwind and become a social, well adjusted person.If the ex member had a connection to an outside job or family, then the decompression becomes much faster.

Every minute that Jeremiah Duggan gave money, attended meetings, manned a LHL card table shrine, he was a "Golden Soul" in LHL speak. The minute he questioned the reality and died, the 6 degrees are unleashed to show what an agent, drug using mental case, long term agent provacteur Dick Cheney/Queen of England insider he was. When you speak the language, it is easy to understand the tribe's customs.

Ladies and gentlemen, that is the Larouche method.

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
06-20-2004, 07:23 AM
"Hybris" is a transliteration from the Greek (the y represents ypsilon).

 

Kheris
06-20-2004, 05:39 PM
Question for whoever can answer it.

Larouche often turns to the Treaty of Westphalia as the baseline example of where the world needs to turn in order to have a meaningful future. He also decries the notion of 'popular opinion' as do his followers.

I read an article by Criton Zoakos, a former Larouche follower, who comments on the Treaty as enshrining the notion that sovereignty is superior to legitimacy. He goes on to say that America espoused the notion that legitimacy, defined as consent of the governed, is the key to sovereignty, which puts the American view at odds with the Treaty. He further comments that the Treaty's philosophy is enshrined in the UN thus rendering it impotent.

My question is this: has Larouche taken the notion of 'consent of the governed' and twisted it into the 'popular opinion' he reviles so much?

 

Anonymous
06-20-2004, 10:14 PM
Hi Kheris,

LaRouche goes in circles.

When Suharto of Indonesia was about to fall from power, EIR decided to "intervene" by attacking megawati as a "IMF agent". After Suharto fell, Abdurrahman became President and megawati became VP. Megawati was still being reviled by EIR as some sort of foreign agent. As Abdurrahman's support was slipping, EIR called him lame, and started playing megawati up. After megawati became president, eir ran an article calling her a "nationalist's daughter".

The sam egoes for Palestinian state. EIR could care less about east Timor or Kurdistan or native american "reservations" or whatever. But a Palestinian state sells very well in Moslem countries, so Lyn is riding on it to get appearances in the arab press, etc. Once that gets used up, he'll move on - as usual.

It is pointless to analyze LaRouche for consistent. I remmeber very well LaRouche once told the youth cult movement that "democracy doesn't work, only the truth works", and he also once added that consistency is often at odds with the truth.

From here, I can only conclude that inconsistency works - at least for lyn.

 

Anonymous
06-21-2004, 05:58 AM
The last line is a keeper:

"Larouche is the only (candidate) that is qualified to be our president right now," says Larouche supporter Peter Martinson. A former Astronomy major at the University of Washington in Seattle, 26-year-old Martinson dropped out of school to join the LaRouche movement full time.

"I'm not going to school with this educational system," said Martinson. However, he does intend to be part of LaRouche's plan to colonize Mars after LaRouche comes in to power.

 

borisbad
06-21-2004, 08:04 AM
Having been out for many years, it's interesting to see how little has changed in the organization. Only the names have changed to protect the innocent as Joe Friday used to say. It's clear that LaRouche never had any faith in democratic principles which is why he always insisted he believed in Republican (i.e. top down) governance ala Plato's so-called golden souls or enlightened despots. He certainly never tolerated dissent inside the organization, and always insisted that "truth" meaning of course whatever view he espoused was the only way to look at an issue.

But as he would also like to say, when really deciphering his views, "look for the money trail." No matter what the issue was, saving the world always meant giving money to LaRouche, since he was the only one who could enforce whatever program he espoused.

Unfortunately, from the standpoint of reporting, although probably fortunately for my sanity, I was not in LaRouche's inner circle after the early days of SDS, so I didn't always get to see first hand when LaRouche would descend into his rants against particular NEC or NC members who didn't meet his expectations. However, it was always interesting that one member, Dennis Speed, always seemed to be one of the proteges that LaRouche never excoriated. Aside from LaRouche, I don't think I knew a member who was more full of his intellectual prowess than Dennis. And the way he, and Phil Rubenstein, treated local members was a good indication of how Lyn treated the "leadership" of the NEC which never could do anything that he didn't approve of.

Better than reading about bi-polar or behavior personality disorder, anyone can just read histories of the Communist Party under Stalin like Darkness at Noon or other period works to see how even the high ranking members of the Politburo and Comintern were broken before they were jailed or executed and how they were made to confess to various crimes. Confessions were always important because they legitimized whatever Stalin accused the victim of. While LaRouche may not have that type of power, it seemed always essential that people would be broken in various smaller ways.

 

Anonymous
06-21-2004, 08:22 AM
I will go you one better for a self-important "genius": Khushro Ghandhi. Including LaRouche, I don't think I've ever known anyone as full of s--- as that charlatan. I think what sealed his rep was some gibberish he wrote circa 1970 about Quine which no one else then or since has been able to understand - thus, "genius." I was once within earshot as he boasted of how he enjoyed torturing small animals as a child. Whether true or not, I wondered at the time what kind of a person is this who would even want to be regarded as abusive of dumb brutes? And Ghandhi is the one who "trained" Rube. I think he's now out of the org - so keep tuned to America's Most Wanted.

 

borisbad
06-21-2004, 12:10 PM
I didn't know Khushro too well, although I know he's been out of the org for quite some time. Used to know his younger brother. He was a very good kid, not arrogant like his brother. Fortunately, he got out pretty early, although I don't recall where he wound up last.

I remember one lecture Khushro gave about the Bach Magnificat which I recall as being interesting at the time I heard it.

 

Anonymous
06-22-2004, 02:42 PM
Anon128 - I am pounding my head on the desk after reading that last from Peter Martinson. I just wish I had him in front of me so I could hear him explain his future role in Martian exploration. I am totally boggled and I know I shouldn't be after everything I have read and listened to. So instead I think I am going to have a good laugh, although it is such a waste of potential talent.

 

Anonymous
06-22-2004, 10:26 PM
"Better than reading about bi-polar or behavior personality disorder, anyone can just read histories of the Communist Party under Stalin".

Borderline Personality Disorder. It's like a cross between bi-polar and schizophrenia. This is the disorder the therapists and psychiatrists try to avoid treating because the patients are usually too difficult and too untreatable.

What I find interesting is not the illness but it's effects on the non-BPDs. The families, the spouses, the children, the co-workers etc., Take a look at the MB and it sounds like a lot of the things being said here. Abuse is abuse is abuse whatever the cause. Maybe some of the things that help the non-BPDs recover from long-term mind control might help some coming here.

 

Anonymous
06-22-2004, 10:36 PM
From http://www.bpdcentral.com
Remember, this is a psychiatric illness.

Indicators of BPD

Is someone you care about causing you a great deal of pain?

Do you find yourself concealing what you think or feel because you're afraid of the other person's reaction or because it just doesn't seem worth the horrible fight or hurt feelings that will follow?

Do you feel that anything you say or do will be twisted and used against you? Are you blamed and criticized for everything wrong in the relationship-even when it makes no logical sense?

Are you the focus of intense, violent, and irrational rages, alternating with periods when the other person acts perfectly normal and loving? Does no one believe you when you explain that this is going on?

Do you feel manipulated, controlled, or even lied to sometimes? Do you feel like you're the victim of emotional blackmail?

Do you feel like the person you care about sees you as either all good or all bad, with nothing in between? Is there sometimes no rational reason for the switch?

Are you afraid to ask for things in the relationship because you will be told that you're too demanding or that there is something wrong with you? Are you told that your needs are not important?

Is the person always denigrating or denying your point of view? Do you feel that their expectations of you are constantly changing, so you can never do anything right?
Are you accused of doing things you never did and saying things you never said? Do you feel misunderstood a great deal of the time, and when you try to explain do you find that the other person doesn't believe you?

Are you constantly being put down? When you try to leave the relationship does the other person try to prevent you from leaving in a variety of ways (anything from declarations of love and promises to change to implicit or explicit threats)?

Do you have a hard time planning anything (social engagements, etc.) because of the other person's moodiness, impulsiveness, or unpredictability? Do you make excuses for their behavior or try to convince yourself that everything is okay?

Right now, are you thinking, "I had no idea that anyone else was going through this?"


Thoughts that may indicate BPD

Does this person:

Alternate between seeing people as either flawless or evil? Have difficulty remembering the good things about a person they're casting in the role of villain?

Find it impossible to recall anything negative about this person when they become the hero?

Alternate between seeing others as completely for them or against them?

Alternate between seeing situations as either disastrous or ideal?

Alternate between seeing themselves as either worthless or flawless?

Have a hard time recalling someone's love for them when they're not around?

Believe that others are either completely right or totally wrong?

Change their opinions depending upon who they're with?

Alternate between idealizing people and devaluing them?

Remember situations very differently than other people, or find themselves unable to recall them at all?

Believe that others are responsible for their actions-or take too much responsibility for the actions of others?

Seem unwilling to admit to a mistake-or feel that everything that they do is a mistake?

Base their beliefs on feelings rather than facts?

Not realize the effects of their behavior on others?

Feelings that may indicate BPD

Does this person:

Feel abandoned at the slightest provocation?

Have extreme moodiness that cycles very quickly (in minutes or hours)?

Have difficulty managing their emotions?

Feel emotions so intensely that it's difficult to put others' needs-even those of their own children-ahead of their own?

Feel distrustful and suspicious a great deal of the time?

Feel anxious or irritable a great deal of the time?

Feel empty or like they have no self a great deal of the time?

Feel ignored when they are not the focus of attention?

Express anger inappropriately or have difficulty expressing anger at all?

Feel that they never can get enough love, affection, or attention?

Frequently feel spacey, unreal, or out of it?

Behaviors that may indicate BPD

Does this person:

Have trouble observing others' personal limits?

Have trouble defining their own personal limits?

Act impulsively in ways that are potentially self-damaging, such as spending too much, engaging in dangerous sex, fighting, gambling, abusing drugs or alcohol, reckless driving, shoplifting, or disordered eating?

Mutilate themselves-for example, purposely cutting or burning their skin?

Threaten to kill themselves-or make actual suicide attempts?

Rush into relationships based on idealized fantasies of what they would like the other person or the relationship to be?

Change their expectations in such a way that the other person feels they can never do anything right?

Have frightening, unpredictable rages that make no logical sense-or have trouble expressing anger at all?

Physically abuse others, such as slapping, kicking, and scratching them?

Needlessly create crises or live a chaotic lifestyle?

Act inconsistently or unpredictably?

Alternately want to be close to others, then distance themselves?
(Examples include picking fights when things are going well or alternately ending relationships and then trying to get back together.)

Cut people out of their life over issues that seem trivial or overblown?

Act competent and controlled in some situations but extremely out of control in others?

Verbally abuse others, criticizing and blaming them to the point where it feels brutal?

Act verbally abusive toward people they know very well, while putting on a charming front for others? Can they switch from one mode to the other in seconds?

Act in what seems like extreme or controlling ways to get their own needs met?

Do or say something inappropriate to focus the attention on them when they feel ignored?

Accuse others of doing things they did not do, having feelings they do not feel, or believing things they do not believe?

 

Anonymous
06-23-2004, 06:53 AM
the sparsity of the remaining organization is suggested by the lack of LC response on this forum ... curious ... people must be reconsidering their servitude ... thankfully

 

Anonymous
06-24-2004, 05:53 PM
The remaining org is just a shell of its former self.

Fearless Leader gave the order that EVERYONE must "forage"...meaning..no one sitting in the office palying "intelligence analyst"...except for a few - Steinberg and Dennis Small.

The rest must raise money - i.e. be street vendors or beggars.

a few old timers are given jobs in the office as clerks or in the printing company as maual laborers...in return for their long time service to hausfrau.

but in general, if you look at the eir...mor eand more articles are being contributed by europeans...and most articles nowadays are just opinion columns with conspiracy theories.

 

Anonymous
06-25-2004, 07:21 AM
In perusing _Children of Satan III_, I have become convinced of a a suggestion of one of the posters that the LHL method of network tracing is nothing but "six degrees of separation." It's sheer insanity for instance to hook Von Neumann and Norbert Wiener up with all this alleged mindcontrol stuff. In addition, Papert (or was it Chaitkin? as if there were any distinction among these boomer drones) pens a clinical piece in the approved LHL fashion: take the supercilious view, sprinkle in the approved names (Keats, Heine - the latter to show LHL is not "really" antisemitic), and the disapproved (Stravinsky, Eliot - bad), and imply that any one who disagrees is somehow lacking, if not an outright agent of the enemy du jour. What is pernicious is the organization's repeated disavowal of logic - the one and only rope an ensnared youth can use to climb out of the cesspool. Papert in fact comes across as nothing but Lyn's bought-and-paid-for $5 whore ... you see, if you have elementary deductive logic at your disposal you can see through the fallacy of concluding that because Tony Chaitkin's father fought Hitlerism, Tony himself is therefore not a self-hating Jew ...

I don't even know why I keep posting here, except perhaps to help someone out of the satanic LC ...

 

xlcr4life
06-25-2004, 08:36 AM
Anon 128 wrote"

"Papert in fact comes across as nothing but Lyn's bought-and-paid-for $5 whore ..."

5 dollars a day seems like the going rate for members. The funny part is that there is not even a COLA (cost of living increase) for members over the decades.

and"

"I don't even know why I keep posting here, except perhaps to help someone out of the satanic LC ... "

Same reason a lot of us post. We have enough of a conscience to at least tell the present and future victims what the true history is and to show how the whole thing is nothing more than a delusion of a seriously troubled man. Unlike many of the remaing deadenders, I can go to sleep every night knowing that I have not deluded, misled, connived or rewritten what takes place in the Bizarro world. The best review of a car that is a lemon is often from a person who actually bought it and used it.

The real fun will begin when most of the LYM attend the Dem convention and find out that everything that they have been told about the growing influence of LHL and his role in the Dem Party is the sickest joke ever played on them.

That is why the new pamphlet is written the way it is. You need to have a ready made enemy and excuse to explain why things did not work out the way they did.

The lack of LYM retort here is because it is not a controlled environment like the office, er clubhouse in Glendale where Harley and Phil are thanking God they have a new set of yutes to cover the rent check.

One thing you can learn from all of this is how abusive people often come from an abusive environment and will continue the cycle of neglect and systemic abuse. The story I once heard was that Phil was enrolled in John Hopkins when he was in his mid teens. Now if you drop out of a prestigious school and an incredible future in studies to follow a delusional man for 3 plus DECADES, you make changes in your life. When you saw first hand what type of abuse was taking place like Harley and know a lot about the funny money business in the 80's, you change as well.

So do not think that these guys are going to enjoy hearing a bright young 20 year old tell them about how much he or she wants to get a degree and enter a rigorous course of study or business. There has to be a lot of rage when one realizes that your whole life has gone to support the Rhinegau shippments and castle purchases for the man and his hausfrau.

A good discussion in Glendale would be about Bill Endghal (sp). He was in the National office writing about energy matters. To refresh the memory, he had some muscular problem and walked with crutches. Now the story I heard was that he left a while ago over some LHL lunacy where LHL eventually purges anyone who shows any independence. Now where this gets interesting is that wily Bill copyrighted his writings and eventually published well respected books on the oil business after he removed a lot of the lunacy.

So it has to burn the remaining deadenders that many alumni have left and made incredible successes of their works and lives after leaving the Bizarro world. You see ,the middle level leaders of the field hands have adopted the LHL method of hating anyone and everything that is successfull or that works. So you attack everything in the universe, especially any person who has still has a glimmer of a future life of happiness.

Larry and Debbie Freeman have succesfully adopted an LHL practise where you dump your older spouses and hook up with much younger members. I think this was called the "Dialicktical Method"

In Leesburg the bottle rules. The idea of drinking your troubles away is very hegemonic. On the way to the monthly funerals you can drive by and wave at the hundreds of acres of prime land that we once owned and then lost in our usual incompetece.

Hell, I would be hitting the bottle too if I had to set up an LHL card table shrine at a plaza now valued at several million that we once owned along Leesburg Pike.

There is no "Lemon Law" for cults, so lets keep the party going. I am trying to find my exchange with Glendale clubhouse member Ed Park from the previous LYM site, it was funny.

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
06-25-2004, 09:47 AM
Thanks, xlcr, that helps. And Bill Engdahl was a hell of a nice guy, so it's good to hear he made it out.

After about six years out, I ran into an old comrade still in the LC who had assumed I was living the American Dream - it was almost the first thing out of his mouth after we got by the lies that had been told about me after my departure: "so how many kids do you have now?" and so forth. To be honest, I wasn't too tightly wrapped when I went into the org (no surprise there), so since I came out it's taken quite a long time to sort things out and get on track. But I do know Phil to be the passionately envious sort and an intellectual hack (he would have made a great book reviewer for the Pennysaver), so I imagine much of their hatred is envy. Soros is a bum, but it must eat Lyn alive that the former is a billionaire to boot. It seems only the low-level types were the idealists, whereas the top levels were strictly about money, booze, sex, and power - as with many organizations. Again, in this connection, _Animal Farm_ is required reading.

Have a nice weekend, everybody.

 

borisbad
06-25-2004, 02:56 PM
It's funny reading these posts because for many years I more or less lost interest in the LC and its rantings. I went to the "Yoot" movement website and perused the old Campaigners, including Ludwig Fueurach, the Gramsci Campaigner, and some of the other classics. I realize that although LaRouche could certainly rattle off his history of the Communist and Trotskyist movements, which I guess drew me to the LC initially before its right turn, he always did it from the standpoint of his "superior insight". Everything was based upon the fact that he was the greatest living economist who took Marx to the next higher level.
Then I got to the later Campaigners. Usually you'd look at articles by others, and they would at least reference sources and have footnotes, and attempt to establish some factual credibility. But LaRouche always made the sweeping assertions.

The Fueuerbach Campaigner especially was interesting when you look at his sweeping assertions about the Catholic Church (which would probably not be LC orthodox opinion today since they like to cater to the Pope) and denouncing Judaism as a sub-sect of Christianity with no prior independent existence. And the org. wonders why they're called Anti-Semites.

The main thing I remember as a field person is always taking some kernel of credibility from the daily briefing and trying to tone down the more extreme rantings that LaRouche would impose on a particular fact. For instance, you could credibly talk about how the CIA funded the Afghan mujhadeen against the Soviets, how they were funded by opium production, etc. but LaRouche would always have to link up these facts to some other arcane conspiracy going back to the Guelphs and so on. Most members in day-to-day organizing would always try and ignore these tidbits.

 

Anonymous
06-25-2004, 06:00 PM
Yup. That was certainly the texture of the FEF/NADC days (after several years of running around with nothing but loony literature to impose on people, when Rockefeller ran EVERYTHING, which somehow I could never quite grasp, but then I gave up the Santa Claus idea when quite young). You would have your gummy card table Shrine, with all your nice science and/or antidrug lit, together with an EIR, the "respectable" version of _New Solidarity_ ... and then, as I said above, if you got a live one who appeared as nuts as you, out from the milk crate below the tabernacle of the Shrine would come this whacky newspaper with headlines British this, Guelph that ... quite demoralizing to wear two faces all the time. And if you ever noticed, in his radio and other interviews, Lyn himself would never come out with the bizarre stuff, which made the true believers wonder ... funny too, how he now tries to hide behind the rubric of "FDR" when the only people for whom those letters have any resonance are the so-called boomers he otherwise despises ... what a maroon ...

 

Anonymous
06-28-2004, 12:32 AM
after Fearless Lyn made his right turn, the org line was Fearless was "neither left nor right".

when the org went catholic, will wertz penned an article in fidelio saying protestant-ism was about faith only , while the catholics were about faith and {good works}. also, a few articles on the renaissance as something to help europe stand up against islam came out as well. in the org's translation of cusa, wertz included cusa's "examination of the koran"...in whihc cusa more or less claims that the koran is absurd.

but too many catholics and not enough of lyn made it necessary to purge the catholics. fernando quijano, warren hamerman, etc. were found guilty as fascist.

will wertz and his wife - the late marianna - who was anton chaitkin's sister - renounced catholicsm - they said that the fascist catholic operations in the virginia area made them unable to continue as catholics. - but they still love the pope though - at least according to them.

now, with the marketing opportunities opening up in the mid-east, the org is going on a "peace among the faiths"...some articles came out in fid about the spanish islam renaissance, etc...

it's good to be a moslem in the org these days...just like once it was good to be catholic.

 

Anonymous
06-28-2004, 05:29 AM
You're blocked: a "LaRouche Muslim" is identical to a "LaRouche Catholic" is identical to a "LaRouche capitalist" is identical to a "LaRouche communist."

And then they have the gall to attack Gertrude Stein (a rose is a rose is a rose, etc.)

Thankfully, no talk yet on the horizon of the "LaRouche Jew."

 

borisbad
06-28-2004, 09:50 AM
Anonymous could you fill in the details on Hamerman. I know from reading LYM posts about Quijano and the "synarchists" but I didn't know Warren Hamerman quit or was expelled or whatever. He always seemed like the quintessential follower of LaRouche, so it's hard to be believe he got into some altercation. Or did he just quietly drop out?

 

Anonymous
06-28-2004, 08:54 PM
Hi,

Hamerman was kicked out, together with his wife Nora.

It was part of the Great Catholic Purge.

Nora is very active among Catholic circles in the Leesburg area. Just search "Nora Hamerman" in Google and you'll see.

She later got a job at Saint John Bosco High School - a catholic school.

The Hamermans, together with the Quijanos, were labeled as "syn" agents, as "fascists", and also as "anti-Semite" by LHL

Robyn Quijano also got a job at some catholic school after being expelled from the org.

After they were purged, the org ran articles about the people giving money to the Catholic schools and churches in the area, some names came up, and LHL declared that that "proves" it -as usual.

LHL clamed that Quijano tried to introduce "family values" into the org. Basically, Quijano tried to get people to take weekends off, and have babies.

I think there were those that knew that that the org was coming apart, and that the only way to save it was to introduce some sanity.

People were told that it is ok to rest during weekends, and that having kids was ok.

And i think they tried to make the org more respectable by having less Lyn in it.

But LHL puuled a coup, with the help of his long - time lackeys - the Spannauses, etc.

The Catholics were expelled, and having babies became unfashionable once more. Lyn rantings started to appear in the am bfg about how people were "duped" into having babies, thus detracting them from saving the world, etc.

LHL also started passing clever remarks about how its normally the "woman" who comes up with the idea about having babies - because the marriage has gone stale - or something like that.

LHL also accused the catholics of letting the org's finances go to ruin - though i heard that the finances were already runied a long time ago by the real estate scams LHL came up wiht, as well as Mrs. LHL's spending habits.

Once LHL got his grip back on the org, those remaining ones who opposed him on anything were labelled as Quijano agents and dumped.

Dino de paoli in Europe got into some argument with LHL, and the next day, a LHL rant appeared accusing him of being in league with Quijano - nowadays we don't hear much of dino any more.

LHL then decided to turn the org into a radical movement - i.e. the yoot movement - with its breaking of meetings, harassing of political opponents, street demos, etc. - i.e. like the old days.

The Catholics had tried to move away from all that thuggery - but LHL consider those actions (i,e. yoot thuggery) an essential part of 'politics', as well as a tool for fund-raising (i.e. these acts - demos, harassment, etc. are what disenchanted people pay the org for).

In other words, tap into people's frustrations and get them to give money to see dem meeting sbeing broken up, republicans being harassed, etc.

lhl is selling thuggery nowadays - since lit. can't cover the bills anymore.

 

scott
06-29-2004, 06:30 AM
CHILDREN OF SATAN III UPDATE

Jeremiah Duggan Timeline

June 23, 2004-While on his lunch break, Agent Michael Winstead runs into aging Larouchies at card table shrine and is handed Children of Satan III pamphlet (lunch was had at Mario's Subs, a popular Tavistock Agent Hangout). He flips to the back and is proud to see he has finally disturbed the Laouchies enough to garner their attention and literary flailings, and Agent Winstead chuckles at the simplicity of Larouchies who believe that people download porn into hard form to then leave it places. Knowing that no Larouchie has ever had the money to own his own computer, he assumes this slander may seem logical to them; but then he remebers what he learned during his infiltration: the Higher Hypothesis. Could it be that the real reason that paychecks have been getting ever lower is that late-night Larouchies have been using EIR printing presses to download and print hi resolution porn, possibly with the face of Lyn photoshopped over young male/female (depending upon level of psycho-sexual trauma) body? He believes it is so, and calls for the resignation of all LC Regional Leaders, until an answer is found concerning the EPR, Executive Porn Review.

 

Anonymous
06-29-2004, 08:40 AM
Six Degrees of Decortication

There once was a guy I saw in Mario's who looked liked Peter Sellars who once bought a newspaper from a newstand owned by a guy with the initials AC, just like the Alistair Crowley who was a Satanist and invented the submarine sandwich as part of an OSS profiling operation to subvert preboomer dustbowl dining habits which were the key to the success of FDR's protofascist first-term recovery policies which we will ignore because we need to convince sane Democrats that we belong at the same table with them even though we are more Dixiecrats although we now worship MLK to throw off anyone who has scented what our true demographic would be if George Wallace voters hadn't wandered off into the woods and/or could read, many of which woods were planted by the famed Gallatin stooge Johnny Appleseed whose suspenders came from Amsterdam via the East India Company.

So there.

 

Kheris
06-29-2004, 04:20 PM
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anon128 wins this round!!!

 

xlcr4life
06-29-2004, 06:46 PM
Anon 128 wrote:
"Thankfully, no talk yet on the horizon of the "LaRouche Jew."

There actually is a concept of the "Larouche Jew". Since the US is a multicultural collection of people, different strategies based on the same technique are used to first attract a person, carefully eliminate his or her connection to the ethnic or religious backround, and then have the person attack his ancestory. The net result is a breakdown in an individuals identity and replacing it with a Bizarro world in which only LHL approved identy is allowed.

Case in Point; Larouche Jews, or, as I call them, Trojan Jews.

There are former members and web sites that have pretty good analysis of early LHL writings on Judaism and Christianity. This stuff is some what esoteric and beyond my attention span. What is important is a slow process where the Judaism of early NCLC leaders, who were predominately Jewish, was beaten out of them. Since we recruited primarily from the left, we often had the Leftist Jewish intellectuals in the fold.

The early writings in the Campaigners were used to start the process. Since I was not Jewish, this escaped me as just some "theoretical writings". What was interesting was how we began to publish increasingly bizarre rantings on Jews and Judaism in the publications.

For example:

Our First early edition of "Dope Inc" had a chapter on the Protocals of the Elders of Zion".

A New Solidarity article appeared contesting the process of how many Jews really died under the Nazis. LHL and company would be debating over whether they died in slave labor or under gas. As if this is a talking point for our campaigns.

We began to publish articles about the Nazi rocket V2 plant at Peenumunde (SP?). After I left the org, I then read about how many Jews were killed at this slave labor rocket camp.

Every article was based on us being under attack by the ADL and other Jewish groups. The six degrees method was used and every road led back to the ADL and Banai Brith.

In the middle of this we would then print nice article about nice Jews who were on the approved reading list.

The most bizarre thing I encountered was a series of anti semitic jokes making the rounds of the offices. Jokes like "How many Jews can fit into a VW?" When Jewish members began to complain, they were told by the chiefs of security, Steinberg and Goldstein, that the jokes come from LHL to toughen up the Jewish members as the ADl will be using members families to atack us.

Now what do we learn from this? The org over a period of time would talk about Jews, but I defy you to find a Jewish member who was a practising Jew. LHL would often berate the leaders in national conferences for their Jewish Neurosis. Often you would have other Jewish members leading the attacks. The final outcome of this was what I call the "Trojan Jew".

This would take the form of a Jewish member on the fundraising teams who would often raise money for LHL and would say to the person. "LHL is not anti semitic, everything you here about us is an ADL slander. Listen, I am Jewish myself. I would not be here if this was an anti semitic group." This would take place despite us selling a book with the Protocals and giving high fives to Nazi rocket death camps.

To be fair, we would occasionaly see an Israeli dignitary and send some people to tour Israel. But it wasn't until I left the group that I saw how much lunacy we were pushing. Most of the Jews left in the early 80's. All were denounced as ADL agents. The ones who were left, they were a beaten bunch, ready to throw themselves in front of any questions of LHL and the groups insanity as Jewish members.

What makes this so unusual is that most of the Jewish ex members in Leesburg who left later converted to other faiths. If you tried to study all of this as a rational group, you go crazy. The best approach I found was the Bizarro world theory. When you have experienced it and left, it then makes sense.

The same thing was done to Blacks in the early years. We denounced Jazz and made sure that the black was beaten out of the blacks. It made no difference what the initial culture was, but you eventually had to beat it out of them.

Since we burnt out so many demographic groups, Muslims are the next cow to be milked. So the work will be oriented towards a stance that can get an EIR sub or LHL 2004 contribution.

The final joke is on the American LHL dead enders. Some of the former members had a rough outline of German. They would listen in on Helga's German staff talk among themselves about the Italians, French, Black and Jewish members.

The slogan :

"The US org must get up at 6 AM so that the Germans can get up at Noon" , is not far off the truth. Think about this if you are a member in Germany raising a glass of rhinegau. Helga has a fully paid castle, paid for by the Jews who cracked the whip to raise the money in the US. Her castle is free and clear, while the remaining dead enders are mortgaged over their heads.

Tis truly the Bizarro world.
xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
06-30-2004, 08:05 AM
Even the online edition of _Dope, Inc._ (p.32) retails a claim to the authenticity of the so-called _Protocols of the Elders of Zion_. So much for adequacy of the LC's historiographical methods.

Evidence for the claim that the fundraising target is being shifted to Muslims can be seen amid LHL's most recent ahistorical rantings which intermittently cough up references to "Egypt's pyramid builders" and to the supposition that Hellenic culture owes its most significant features to the same, a slave society. And we all know, of course, how much Islam contributed to Pharoanic culture.

Hey, Chris, how about a cartoon strip on the Bizarro World: "The Globetrotting Adventures of Lyndy," or "Heroic Hermyle Saves the World," or "Junketing Junior Jews down the Hebrews," etc.?

 

borisbad
06-30-2004, 09:34 AM
Let's not forget that Phil Rubenstein's father or grandfather I believe was an Orthodox Rabbi. I beieve Phil actually had initially received such training or maybe went to rabbinical school. It's something he used to mention, but maybe keeps that to himself nowadays. I don't recall him ever making any objections to any of the coarse anti-semitic "jokes" or rantings of LHL or others.

 

Kheris
06-30-2004, 07:13 PM
From xlcr:
This would take the form of a Jewish member on the fundraising teams who would often raise money for LHL and would say to the person. "LHL is not anti semitic, everything you here about us is an ADL slander. Listen, I am Jewish myself. I would not be here if this was an anti semitic group."

Harley Schlanger used almost those exact words in response to an allegation of antisemitism raised by a college newspaper reporter.

From Anon128:
Evidence for the claim that the fundraising target is being shifted to Muslims can be seen amid LHL's most recent ahistorical rantings which intermittently cough up references to "Egypt's pyramid builders" and to the supposition that Hellenic culture owes its most significant features to the same, a slave society. And we all know, of course, how much Islam contributed to Pharoanic culture.

I have seen that too.

 

Anonymous
07-02-2004, 08:39 AM
So grateful I don't have to deploy (i.e., sell magazines) or do the phones (i.e., telemarket) this weekend, but just might have the opportunity to really help someone.

Happy Independence Day!

 

Kheris
07-06-2004, 08:23 AM
I see Kerry has picked Edwards as his running mate. LHL better act quick and name his VP if he intends to upend all the apple carts and snag the DNC mantle. He needs a 'bounce' in the polls too. A really BIG bounce.

Oh wait, I forgot, he'll run as an independent. No hurry then.

 

Anonymous
07-06-2004, 07:40 PM
I still remember reading from the cult's website (larouchepub.com) that some larouche yoot asked kerry about 'impending doom' and the website said kerry 'acknowledged' the silly larouche yoot with a nod or something like that....trying to make it sound like kerry is a closet larouchie...or one of those 'democrats who supports larouche but wants to remain anon'....

well, i guess kerry i sreally going all out to keep his 'support' of larouche unknown...by choosing somebody else as his VP...

 

borisbad
07-09-2004, 03:22 PM
I just was reading a LaRouche address to the Yoots from Nov. 2003 where he states the org. needs $300,000 per week to operate. Since they don't really put out publications, where does the money he claims they need come from and where does it go? He also was still holding to the line that Bin Laden had nothing to do with 9/11 that it was a right wing group from the military. Bizarre stuff.

 

xlcr4life
07-09-2004, 06:54 PM
If you look at the FEC lists of money for LHL. A good chunk of the incoming money is raised via the campaign. The money then is dispersed through local office expenses to cover rents, phones and other costs. So it is always important to run for office. LHL also gets a certain protection against many groups who are non profit. Non profits can't publish the type of things they would wish because it would jeopordize their tax exempt status. The LHL Familia can file petty type complaints against its critics. Thus the need to run for the presidency year round, 24/7.

As far as the Boston convention goes. The yutes will be dispersed to Boston and told that there is a good chance that through an open convention, delegates can pledge support to LHL and the LHL platform. Some leafletts will probably be issued against Kerry to curry favors with supposed Republican supporters. This way , you have all parties covered and can claim to be the influence behind the US Presidential election.

In previous races, we issued statements and flyers attacking Mondale as a KGB agent and caused quite a big uproar with mental health questions about Dukakis. If Bush wins, it will be because the Kerry camp did not accept the LHL plan. If Kerry wins, it will be be because of LHL's work against the Beast men. Either way, you are doing it for $35 bucks a week. In reality, the LHL wing is non existant and viewed as a collection of crazies among the usual gatherings of a convention, accept the crazies get credentials and meetings.

You know the money is bad because no national half hour TV spots have been run, just local obscure spots. As far as the yutes go. There will be many a briefing given to them about how influential LHL is and how much power is being wielded. Since LHL has a good 40 year run with tall tales, the yutes will WANT to believe that their physical and mental destruction has a purpose.

If you want to see how funny this is just take a peek at the FDR-PAC LHL site where the last entry is from a few years ago. Humor and tragedy often can be the same thing. One can laugh at the remaining dead enders who still cling to a 30 year dream while their fellow dead enders prepare the music for their funerals. The tragedy is in seeing the very young yutes who were just born when most of us high taled it out of Leesburg, continue to leave their productive years behind.

What was always funny in retrospect was how we would be at Dem. meetings to argue for LHL to speak, while he was in Germany sipping Rhinegau with a string quartet at his feet.

I must publically give Anon 192 his props for his often insightfull analysis. The idea that what ever delusion emerges from a crazed LHL mandible must then be "proven" by the intell sectors hit me like a Mike Tyson punch. I thought that we had an actual intell gathering and discussion of events in my era. Now I understand why we would often publish memoirs from the Bizarro world, rather than actual intell. Did you know that we praised Juan Peron and Fernidad Marcos as Platonic leaders?

I guess we will be reading what the present yutes have gone through eventually.

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
07-10-2004, 09:10 AM
hi,

there is a word in the "intell sector" of the nat. office, and it's called "suppress".

This word is literal used by the "editors", etc. that makes up the "intell sector" of the nat. office.

during my brief stint in the LaRouche cult, i often sent "slugs" (i.e. news copy pasted from the internet) to the nat. office via e-mail.

what i noticed was slugs that fit the current "hypothesis" would be accepted, but those that didn't fit too well would never see the light of day - at least no tin any am bfg.

the org would decide who to curry favor with - once it was with mahathir, another time it was with suharto, then megawati - the list goes on.

so the am bfg had to reflect how great or good those that the org was trying to kiss up to, and how "evil" those that the org targeted.

sometimes, the org would target the supposed "enemies" of those that they are kissing up to, hoping to get noticed - worked rather well in malaysia for a while - and would get some mention in the local mainstream press, or some VIP there will to give an interview in return for the favor.

it didn't matter if what was being printed was true or false - the only thing that mattered was "the big picture" - the in-house term used to justify any "supression".

years ago, the org tried to kiss up to sudan, and lhl together with hausfrau got an invitation there - even rubbed shoulders with the sudannese PM - "proof" yet again of how much "influence" pimping can get you - all this went on despite the fact that the sudanese gov. is off its centre and wages a genocidal war against "christian" rebels in southern sudan who rejects the idea of an islamic state.

the org would defend sudan and say thing like - it all a lie by those NGOs, etc. and that sudan is standing up to the "international oligarchy" - just because it defaulted on some IMF debt.

recently, kofi annan came out and condemned in the press, cause southern sudanese villages are being systematically destroyed in order to stamp out the rebellion.

so much for standing up to the oligarchy.

i guess we have to ask ourselves - was it worth it to kiss up to a government that destroys hundreds of villages of its own people just because it refused to make some payments to the IMF.

that is the nature of the "intel" published in EIR. even those stats of "economic collapse" leave out unconvenient thigns like actual physical economic progress in other sectors to just focus on the bad news.

some goes for the "science" - some of it a re-hash of what is found in the public library - mixed in with some broad sweeping LHL opinions - passed off as "insight".

the yoots are being taken on the "criminal" ride - their lives are being ruined - all just because LHL and hausfrau decided a long time ago that - this way of making a living beats getting an honest 9 to 5 job anyday.

 

Scott
07-13-2004, 11:46 AM
Saturday July 10th-9:00 pm

I came upon a mobile tactical unit of the Larouche Youth. It was an old comrade of mine Jenny, who was handing out the Children of Satan Pamphlet and she had a fairly fresh recruit with her (I could tell he was fresh because he wasn't yet ripe;-/). Jenny is the child of two members of the Leesburg Office, who nearly made it out into the real world only to quit the third or fourth day of her job as a music teacher to "organize".

We talked for awhile about the veracity of recent statements made by the org., but she quickly realized she was forgetting her "mission" and hurriedly passed out pamphlets to passersby amid their jeers, taunts, and the occasional angry comment. The fresh organizer decided he would spend time talking with me however, so we had a "conversation"--he was already intent on getting me into a "Socratic Dialogue" on the economy...he eventually listened as Jenny listened with one ear....she never made a peep at me until I "Socratically" asked the young man,"Do you know that they literally forced my old friend________ in your "movement" to have an abortion? Do you realize they've been doing it for years?"

Jenny screamed "THAT'S NOT TRUE!"


Now, I know it's true--but why would she be so upset about it? It just hit me a few minutes ago while I was on my lunch break. I know 3 Larouchie Children who organize, and they're all about the same age (at most 5 years apart), it had never occurred to me the great paradox that must forever live in a Larouchie-parented child's mind:

If Lyndon Larouche had not been in prison, they would have never been born.

 

Anonymous
07-13-2004, 01:54 PM
Scary. I just read a transcript of the July 3 Lyn and Helga show and was amused to see them inveighing against fiscal austerity in Germany when that has been SOP within the LC since Day 1. They really are entirely devoid of shame. Fortunately no one with any influence at all takes them seriously. It's like watching children play house, watching them play politics. Helga is the mommy, etc.

 

Anonymous
07-13-2004, 05:33 PM
Scott,

"If Lyndon Larouche had not been in prison, they would have never been born."

That is really insightful...i knew those in the org likes to repeat to themselves that "all the world's children are your children"...and keep cats and dogs....in lieu of having any kids...but that statement you made about lyn's 5 years in prison permitted a few human beings to be born really struck me.

after larouche got out of jail, he went on a rampage against "family values"..calling it a fascist operation against the org by fernando, etc....accusing those who had babies to have been "victims" of a plot to destroy the org.

larouche also ranted against the women in the org...accusing them of being the instigators of the "i want to have a baby" syndrome....due to some biological clock-ticking problem.

i wonder if the yoot movement - by roping in the cult member's kids (i.e. kids that they should never have had given birth to ) - is larouche's way of teaching his minions a lesson.

incidently, will wertz is rampaging against the MSIA (marivila, et. al.) - on lyn's orders.

will wertz and his late wife marianna were deep in catholicism. when the catholics in the org (fernando, warren hamerman, etc.) were purged, it became unfashionable for will wertz to continue being catholic.

in order to prove to larouche that he is not some catholic agent, larouche gave will wertz the job to ranting against his former cstholic friends.

it's like given dennis speed the job of ranting against jazz, etc... to prove that his loyalty is to larouche, and not to some "black nationalism".

 

.....
07-14-2004, 02:36 PM
Isnt LaRouche some kind of Nazi Jew hater?

 

Anonymous
07-14-2004, 03:09 PM
Read all of the above posts: LaRouche hates everyone, himself most of all. Therefore he hates Jews. He is nominally virulently antinazi, but the substance is the same. The evidence for his antisemitism comes from crazy statements he has made in the past about Jews - but he is crazy on most subjects, so why shouldn't he be crazy on the Jews? Especially now as he courts muslim payola ... dismissing him as so many in the media do as "merely" a Nazi Jew-hater does little to indicate the depths of his malice and insanity, which are far greater than those of your average cracker.

 

......
07-14-2004, 03:11 PM
Fair enough then, I noticed that he was trying to court mainstream credibility.

I have read most of those posts and he sounds like a fruitcake!

 

xlcr4life
07-14-2004, 04:53 PM
"Isnt LaRouche some kind of Nazi Jew hater? "

No,no,no. Any Jew who can tell pro Nazi jokes and write articles about the glories of Nazi rocket research, while side stepping the slave labor issue, is a friend of LHL and Helga. He or she can also secure employment on the security or science sectors.

If you can tell those jokes to other fellow Jewish members and not see the problem, than you may be invited to the inner security circle.

If you are Jewish and can run your local office like a prison camp and drain every penny from the members, than you have a future as a regional leader.

The group was built off of the back, er back pockets of many talented and educated Jewish members. Like everything else in the Bizaro world, they were purged, with the remaining beaten down and transformed into "Trojan Jews". The Trojan Jews are ready to pop up when the anti semitic questions start.

There is something quite odd about LHL and Hausfrau, clinking glasses of Rhinegau in her castle in West Germany, while the still living Trojan Jews send the bucks.

I think that is the groups 401K matching retirement fund. Every year, 15% of a member's life is given up and is matched by another year that LHL out lives them.

xlcr4life

 

...........
07-14-2004, 05:24 PM
Oh I see...self hating Jews

It's so that they can say they aren't racist, isn't it? "We're not antisemitic, we have Jewish members..." reminds me of a lot of movements I have come across - including full blown NAZI organisations.

 

Richard Michael Baker
07-15-2004, 03:57 PM
Help, My son just graduated from high school, and has been following Larouche for over a year. He wants to go to New Jersey and join them for $40 a week, and live with six other guys. He has bought into the whole doctrine, the creative thinking stuff that turned him against education by high school teachers. He is only 18, and his sister, 9, has been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, a mild from of autism with behavioral patterns that my son demonstrates. His pastor, friends, English teacher, etc. have tried to talk him out of it, but he still wants to do it. His mother said that "over her dead body'' is he going. He had 1,200 boards, but terrible grades, partially because of Larouche, and partially, we believe because of the Asperger's. Who out there with experience with this cult can help tell us how to stop this. Who can help?

 

Anonymous
07-15-2004, 07:14 PM
Mr. Baker:

I was young when recruited to the LaRouche CULT (have not a moment of doubt that because the group is ostensibly "political" it is not identical in content and methods to the Unification Church or Hare Krishna) and could not listen to reason. Only my own bitter experience allowed me to see the folly of my ways. Perhaps some of the suggestions of people experienced with helping victims get out of cults generally can assist you because they have more experience from the psychological or therapeutic side of things.

From the side of one has been involved in this particular cult, I can make a few suggestions - mostly a list of points for your son to ponder. In the first place it is crucial not to ridicule his new-found beliefs but to applaud his motivations - which are noble in fact (how many people his age are concerned about making the world a better place?) Some random considerations to present to him:

--How does selling magazines change the world?
--Why do Mr. and Mrs. LaRouche live in luxury when the average member of the Labor Committees lives at below subsistence wages?
--How reliable is a leader who historically instructs his followers to not honor their commitments, i.e. to not pay their bills?
--Does it make any sense at all that one man has ALL answers to EVERY question?
--How does your son answer the many contradictions of LaRouche doctrine over time. For example, LaRouche virulently attacked Ramsey Clark for years as a traitor - until, of course, Clark took the side of LaRouche in the latter's legal travails. Then he instantly became a good guy.
--Does it make sense for a man who is a convicted felon and who cannot therefore become President even if he were elected RUN FOR PRESIDENT, AN OFFICE HE COULD NOT HOLD IN ANY EVENT???

I would gently present your son with numerous examples of this type of common sense contradiction, a gold mine of which you can find in previous posts, all of which from my vantage point are true.

It is unlikely any of this will work, but keep in regular, weekly, loving contact with him. Get his non-LaRouche friends and family to call and visit him, to send cards, etc. The organization will totally freak out and try to separate you. At that point you can ask him why they fear his family and friends. His friends at any rate are not "boomers", the cult word du jour, unlike the older cult members who yell at him when he doesn't bring in enough money. Treat him no differently than if he had a serious disease, which he does: he is enamored of a destructive cult whose only purpose is to aggrandize and enrich an evil, self-centered toad, LaRouche. Fortunately, LHL is not long for this world, and the cult will collapse at that point, but how much of your son's valuable life will have been squandered until then?

And pray, and encourage your son in his faith, because for every LaRouchite, LaRouche is god. But only God has all power.

God bless.

a.

 

Anonymous
07-15-2004, 10:46 PM
Mr Baker,

One way to debunk LaRouche is to show that most of LHL's "ideas" are actually plagarised from other writers.

May I recommend to you a work from the late 19th century (but reprinted several times) by Henry George titled "Progress and Poverty".

You can find this book from alibris.com or powells.com from the "used" section - since it is rather old.

Another book is by a French minister from the 50s and 60s named Jacques Rueff titled "Monetary Sin of the West", and "Age of Inflation".

LHL's "discoveries" are nothing new - everything from predicting an economic collapse, to creativity being the source of economic progress - was taken from other writers that LHL never acknowledges.

People like Harley Schlanger and Phil Rubenstein have already told your son up front that his parents are going to object to him selling lit. by the streetside for $40 a week (if he is lucky to be paid) because his parents are "baby boomers", "victims of the counterculture", etc. and the LHL is "better" than his parents - morally, intellectually, etc. - and that everything bad anyone (especially you) say about LHL is a "slander" because you are a "small person" or you "fear" a lot, etc...They already have that end covered. So be careful on the trap Phil and Harley set on you.

 

Anonymous
07-15-2004, 10:53 PM
Mr Baker,

LHL's early history can be found at http://www.ex-iwp.org/docs/1975/Critical%20Practice.htm/docs/1975/Critical%20Practice.htm

Fred Newman also runs a cult similar in style the the LaRouche cult.

At the http://www.ex-iwp.org/docs/ site, you can find some more documents about the problems Newman had with LHL in the 70s.

Theese docs are from the 70s, and the criticisms there of LHL is not 100% competent, but they do mention about a number facts about LaRouche's methods, attitude, etc...that is true up till this day.

 

Anonymous
07-16-2004, 11:07 AM
this is from antiwar.com...

The Cult of Power
From Leon Trotsky to Paul Wolfowitz
by Justin Raimondo
With almost 900 Americans dead, thousands horribly wounded, and talk of canceling a national election that is taking place in the shadow of terrorism, one has to ask: how did we get here? Seymour Hersh, speaking at the American Civil Liberties Union conference on July 7, gave a pretty good answer:

"Rather than deal with the obvious stuff about Bush and this election and what it means, I think the real question we have to answer – and this is the question that I'm inchoate about: my friend Dan Ellsberg would say this is heuristic, 'I have some heuristic thoughts about it' – he's a great expert on heurism…. The question we have to say to ourselves is, okay, so here's what happens: a bunch of guys, eight or nine neoconservatives, cultists – not Charles Manson cultists, but cultists – get in.

"And it's not, with all due respect to Michael Moore, (his movie's fine) but it's not about oil, it's even not about Israel, it's about a utopia they have. It's about an idea they have. Not only about that democracy can be spread. In a sense I would say Paul Wolfowitz is the greatest Trotskyite of our times. He believes in permanent revolution. And in the Middle East, to begin with, needless to say.

"And so you have a bunch of people who have been, for ten or twelve years, fantasizing, since the 1991 Gulf war, on the way to resolve problems. And of course there'll be beneficiaries, Israel would be a beneficiary, etc., etc., but the world in their eyes, this is a utopia.

"And so they got together this small group of cultists. And how did they do it? They did do it. They've taken the government over.

"And what's amazing to me – and what really is troubling – is how fragile our democracy is. Look what happened to us… They took the edge off the press, they also muzzled the bureaucracy, they muzzled the military, they muzzled the Congress. And it's an amazing feat. We're supposed to be a democratic society. And all those areas of our democracy bowed and scraped to this group of neocons."

It was a riveting talk, delivered in a tone of understated modesty, each interruption of applause visibly anticipated and borne by the speaker as if the audience were shooting arrows at him: as if to say there's no time for self-congratulation, because we have to get at the truth and time is running out….

I've lost track of how many major stories Hersh has broken in the past few months: Abu Ghraib, the financial shenanigans of neocon guru Richard Perle, the lie factory called the "Office of Special Plans," and the list goes on. In this age of journalistic servility to the State, he has no peers as an investigative reporter. The boys in the Pentagon shudder each time The New Yorker rolls off the presses.

Here is a topnotch journalist – an empiricist by profession, and necessity – trying to discern some pattern in the facts he's assembled. With access to all sorts of Washington insiders – including Pentagon generals, whose disaffection, he said in his talk, "has never been so acute" – Hersh comes up with a story remarkably similar to that recounted by others, including General Anthony Zinni, intelligence expert James Bamford, retired Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, and a number of authors and journalists – including the present writer, who has been continually underscoring the threat posed by the neocons since the very first installment of this column.

"It's not the Manson clan," said Hersh to the assembled civil libertarians, "but we really have been taken over."

By whom – or what?

Like other such sects, religious as well as political, the history and beliefs of the neoconservative cult come in two versions. As Murray N. Rothbard pointed out in a trenchant 1972 study of the Ayn Rand cult:

"Every religious cult has two sets of differing and distinctive creeds: the exoteric and the esoteric. The exoteric creed is the official, public doctrine, the creed which attracts the acolyte in the first place and brings him into the movement as a rank-and-file member. The esoteric creed is the unknown, hidden agenda, a creed which is only known to its full extent by the top leadership, the 'high priests' of the cult. The latter are the keepers of the mysteries of the cult."

An ideological cult, Rothbard observed, has many of the salient features of a religious cult, and essentially the same belief structure: leader-worship, dogmatism, and a hatred of heresy, characteristics the neocons exhibit in abundance. Leader-worship fairly describes the neoconservative theory of the Presidency: the President, as Warrior-King, can order torture, and even suspend the Constitution. As for dogmatism: instead of acknowledging and analyzing the utter wrongness of their expectation that we would be greeted with cries of "Hail our liberators!" by the Iraqis, the neocons are now blaming the disaster on the allegedly flawed "execution" of their policies. Hatred of heretics is certainly an animating force among them, second only to blood-lust: just ask Michael Lind, or, indeed, anyone who has crossed their path.

The official exoteric story is that there is really no such creature as a neocon, it's all an "anti-Semitic" conspiracy theory dreamed up by Pat Buchanan and myself. The Iraq war was driven, not by highly-placed individuals with a specific agenda, but by historical necessity: the necessity, that is, of responding to the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The neoconservative vision, they innocently aver, is based on building "democracy" not only in the Middle East, but throughout the entire world, and establishing what they call the "benevolent global hegemony" of a rising American Imperium, an "empire of liberty."

The real story, as Hersh clearly realizes, is quite different: Paul Wolfowitz is the greatest Trotskyist not only of our time but of all time. Certainly greater than Trotsky himself, the founder of the Red Army and prophet of world revolution who wound up in some rundown Mexican backwater with an icepick sticking out of his head. Trotsky's "Fourth International," stillborn, lived in Stalin's shadow for all of its brief half-life, but in that time managed to generate a tendency that would eventually culminate in another sort of world revolution – and yet, on second thought, not all that different.

Deputy Defense Secretary Wolfowitz, whom Hersh describes as the "genius" of the neocon operation, knows well his antecedents, as Jeet Heer has reported in the National Post, citing neocon writer and "ex"-Trotskyist Stephen Schwartz:

"To this day, Schwartz speaks of Trotsky affectionately as 'the old man' and 'L.D.' (initials from Trotsky's birth name, Lev Davidovich Bronstein). 'To a great extent, I still consider myself to be [one of the] disciples of L.D,' he admits, and he observes that in certain Washington circles, the ghost of Trotsky still hovers around. At a party in February celebrating a new book about Iraq, Schwartz exchanged banter with Wolfowitz about Trotsky, the Moscow Trials and Max Shachtman.

"'I've talked to Wolfowitz about all of this,' Schwartz notes. 'We had this discussion about Shachtman. He knows all that stuff, but was never part of it. He's definitely aware.' The yoking together of Paul Wolfowitz and Leon Trotsky sounds odd, but a long and tortuous history explains the link between the Bolshevik left and the Republican right."

The Trotskyists believed that the Revolution had gone off the rails, due not to the inherent brutality and immorality of the Bolshevik program, but because the Party didn't have the revolutionary zeal to carry the struggle forward into Europe and beyond. They sneered at the Stalinist concept of "socialism in one country," and correctly pointed to the Marxist classics, including Lenin, as proof that the Kremlin had betrayed the cause of true Communism, which they identified with a militant internationalism. Instead of sitting around liquidating Russian kulaks, Stalin, the Trots averred, should have gone on to liquidate all kulaks, everywhere.

Trotsky, by this time, had been forced into exile, and, after wandering through Europe, finally wound up in Mexico just as Hitler and Stalin concluded their infamous Pact – and sent the small Trotskyist grouplet, as well as the rest of the international Communist movement, into a tailspin of confusion.

Trotsky, always sensitive to the charge by Stalinists and their fellow travelers that he was really a bourgeois traitor, had always insisted on defending the Soviet Union "against the Stalinists and in spite of the Stalinists." But with the Nazis and the Commies now in alliance against the Western democratic powers – and poor little Finland in the Soviets' sights! – how was it possible to any longer defend the "workers' fatherland"? That's what Max Shachtman and James Burnham, two of Trotsky's top disciples in America, wanted to know. Trotsky, for his part, could give them no answer they found satisfactory, and so the Trotskyist movement split, with Shachtman and Burnham leaving the Fourth International's American grouplet, known as the Socialist Workers Party, and founding the Workers Party. Burnham departed the newly-minted party almost as soon as it was set up, going on to translate his anti-Stalinism into a full-fledged and full-throated anti-Communism by joining the CIA and winding up as a top editor at National Review.

Shachtman took a much longer, tortuous path to basically the same position: what his leftist opponents and erstwhile comrades in the SWP called "State Department socialism." Shachtman was a tremendously charismatic figure, a pyrotechnic speaker and learned (self-taught) scholar of the Marxist classics, whose ability to justify his latest "turn" in terms of Marxoid dogma might be fairly characterized as acrobatic. Each turn, when it came, took him farther away from his ideological origins – he had started out his political career as a Communist Party functionary in the 1920s.

When the Cold War began to press down on his isolated grouplet with such force that it was put on the list of "subversive" organizations, Shachtman regurgitated a brand new theory: the Soviet Union, in the Shachtmanite view, no longer represented socialism, but instead constituted a new and even more terrible danger than Western capitalism: bureaucratic collectivism. From that point on, Shachtman and his followers began to advocate a hard foreign policy line against the Soviet Union, a line that got progressively harder with the years. The Shachtmanites eventually disbanded their grouplet, at least in a formal sense, and merged with the remnants of the old Socialist Party, which they effectively took over, changing the name to the Social Democrats, USA (SDUSA).

Shachtman's new strategy was to work within the Democratic party, and the unions: his followers in SDUSA held key positions in the AFL-CIO and the teachers unions. In 1968, he pushed through a Socialist Party resolution endorsing Hubert Humphrey for President, over the feeble protests of Norman Thomas, who lay dying in a hospital. Shachtman ended his days as a key supporter of Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson, known affectionately as the Senator from Boeing, and fully supporting the Vietnam war. Key neoconservative cadre came directly out of the SDUSA: Jeanne Kirkpatrick, James Woolsey, Carl Gershman, Max Kampelman, Penn Kimble, and Elliott Abrams, to name just a few. Scoop Jackson's aides, such as Richard Perle and Abrams, went on to become prominent neocons. Reinforced by successive waves of ex-leftists, such as the Commentary crowd and Irving Kristol (a former Trotskyist follower of Burnham's), Shachtmanism, especially after Shachtman's death, in 1971, essentially morphed into neoconservatism.

"It's not about oil, it's even not about Israel, it's about a utopia they have. It's about an idea they have."

It's widely recognized that we were lied into war by a group of ideologues, but what is this "idea they have"? What kind of "utopia" is Iraq? The old Trotskyist idea of internationalism is here preserved, but for the red flags. Some of them even call themselves "Trotsky-cons." But this "outing" of the neocons has caused them considerable embarrassment – since they are currently masquerading as "conservatives" – and they've struck back by seeking to label the outers "conspiracy theorists" and "anti-Semites." Most deny their Trotskyist heritage – the more strenuous denials coming from the very people who embody it, such as Joshua Muravchik, once a youth leader of the SDUSA and now a rising neocon star over at the American Enterprise Institute.

Similarly vindictive protests at this dredging up of the true history of the neocons are coming, surprisingly, from the ostensible left. Although one might think that they would welcome the chance to excoriate their renegades, the orthodox Trotskyists that still exist on the far-left fringes are angry because they believe Trotsky's good name is being maligned. The "World Socialist Website" goes into a particularly dreary recitation of Trotskyist history that essentially admits the neocons' Shachtmanite lineage, but reduces its significance to a "journalistic turn of phrase" that "is a travesty of historical or political analysis, and only serves to obscure the ideological roots of the neoconservative movement."

But it is the World Socialist Website that is doing the obscuring here: the "world-historical" grandiosity and Jacobinism that animated the Shachtmanites merely changed flags, without changing either its goals or its methods. SDUSA is just as committed to international socialism as it was in Shachtman's day: that they are using the United States Army instead of the Red Army to impose it is only a detail that, in the end, matters little.

The Socialist Workers Party, which still exists, although it has long since given up Trotskyism for Castroism, is also ****ed off at us for maligning their hero, and attacks Antiwar.com in much the same terms as the neocons employ. The headline in their newspaper, The Militant, proclaims: "Jew-hatred, red-baiting: heart of claims of 'neocon' conspiracy." Antiwar.com, in their view, is part of a sinister anti-Semitic conspiracy, along with Seymour Hersh: together, we are trying to "set up" the neocons for getting us into the Iraq war. They go so far as to repeat specific charges made by former Coalition Provisional Authority official Michael Rubin, in National Review, and directed at Karen Kwiatkowski – who exposed the manipulation of intelligence by the "Office of Special Plans" – that somewhat fancifully attempt to link her to the LaRouche group because she once was interviewed by one of their number.

Shoot, what about the fact that LaRouche used to be a member of the Socialist Workers Party – would it be fair to identify the SWP as LaRouchite, on the grounds of mere contact with LaRouche? These people are such hypocrites, and, what gets me is that they're so vulnerable to the very tactics they employ.

The SWP screed is a farrago of lies, evasions, and paranoid ravings. According to the Socialist Workers cult, not only Seymour Hersh and Antiwar.com, but also Michael Lind, the New York Times, Foreign Affairs, "and numerous other publications and internet sites," by identifying neoconservatives as the sparkplugs behind this war, are all engaged in a veritable orgy of "Jew-hatred" and "Trotsky-baiting." The SWP, like the World Socialist Website crew, admits the origins of the Shachtman group in the Trotskyist movement, but then lamely avers that

"Smears about 'Trotskycons' to the contrary, the fact is that no prominent figure among the so-called neoconservatives has ever been a member of the Socialist Workers Party."

But no one ever said that they were. The SWP never amounted to a hill of beans, except briefly in the 1960s and 70s, when they were a key element of the antiwar movement. Today they are an insignificant little sect devoted to selling books, and enriching the cult leaders, while the intellectual descendants of their renegade faction rule the roost in Washington.

Against this Popular Front of Norman Podhoretz and SWP leader Jack Barnes, which includes Joshua Muravchik and the World Socialist Website, opponents of the Iraq war can only marshal the empirical evidence, and the insight that individuals, not abstract "forces" or historical "necessity," control events. And don't imagine this is some obscure debate over historical arcana: the idea that specific individuals are responsible for formulating and implementing American policy in the Middle East is the key to understanding the present debate over the "intelligence failure" that lured us into Iraq. Far from being a "failure," the perpetrators of this massive fraud were wildly successful, at least from their perspective– and the SWP, for some reason, is intent on helping them to get away scot-free.

The idea that animates the War Party is the same idea that has motivated Jacobins of the left and the right since time immemorial: a restless and malevolent energy that impels them to remake the world. Militant utopians inflicted millions of casualties in the twentieth century, and it looks like they intend to surpass their record in the twenty-first. The neocons may be temporarily discredited, and in eclipse: but it would be a mistake to count them out.

The cult of Power, with its roots in the Left and its present hegemony over the Right, is the eternal enemy of peace and liberty. Like any cult, it has an exoteric philosophy, which is presented in reams of essays and proclamations extolling the virtues of "democracy" – while its esoteric meaning is embodied in the photos of the Abu Ghraib house of horrors.

– Justin Raimondo

The Cult of Power
From Leon Trotsky to Paul Wolfowitz
by Justin Raimondo
With almost 900 Americans dead, thousands horribly wounded, and talk of canceling a national election that is taking place in the shadow of terrorism, one has to ask: how did we get here? Seymour Hersh, speaking at the American Civil Liberties Union conference on July 7, gave a pretty good answer:

"Rather than deal with the obvious stuff about Bush and this election and what it means, I think the real question we have to answer – and this is the question that I'm inchoate about: my friend Dan Ellsberg would say this is heuristic, 'I have some heuristic thoughts about it' – he's a great expert on heurism…. The question we have to say to ourselves is, okay, so here's what happens: a bunch of guys, eight or nine neoconservatives, cultists – not Charles Manson cultists, but cultists – get in.

"And it's not, with all due respect to Michael Moore, (his movie's fine) but it's not about oil, it's even not about Israel, it's about a utopia they have. It's about an idea they have. Not only about that democracy can be spread. In a sense I would say Paul Wolfowitz is the greatest Trotskyite of our times. He believes in permanent revolution. And in the Middle East, to begin with, needless to say.

"And so you have a bunch of people who have been, for ten or twelve years, fantasizing, since the 1991 Gulf war, on the way to resolve problems. And of course there'll be beneficiaries, Israel would be a beneficiary, etc., etc., but the world in their eyes, this is a utopia.

"And so they got together this small group of cultists. And how did they do it? They did do it. They've taken the government over.

"And what's amazing to me – and what really is troubling – is how fragile our democracy is. Look what happened to us… They took the edge off the press, they also muzzled the bureaucracy, they muzzled the military, they muzzled the Congress. And it's an amazing feat. We're supposed to be a democratic society. And all those areas of our democracy bowed and scraped to this group of neocons."

It was a riveting talk, delivered in a tone of understated modesty, each interruption of applause visibly anticipated and borne by the speaker as if the audience were shooting arrows at him: as if to say there's no time for self-congratulation, because we have to get at the truth and time is running out….

I've lost track of how many major stories Hersh has broken in the past few months: Abu Ghraib, the financial shenanigans of neocon guru Richard Perle, the lie factory called the "Office of Special Plans," and the list goes on. In this age of journalistic servility to the State, he has no peers as an investigative reporter. The boys in the Pentagon shudder each time The New Yorker rolls off the presses.

Here is a topnotch journalist – an empiricist by profession, and necessity – trying to discern some pattern in the facts he's assembled. With access to all sorts of Washington insiders – including Pentagon generals, whose disaffection, he said in his talk, "has never been so acute" – Hersh comes up with a story remarkably similar to that recounted by others, including General Anthony Zinni, intelligence expert James Bamford, retired Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, and a number of authors and journalists – including the present writer, who has been continually underscoring the threat posed by the neocons since the very first installment of this column.

"It's not the Manson clan," said Hersh to the assembled civil libertarians, "but we really have been taken over."

By whom – or what?

Like other such sects, religious as well as political, the history and beliefs of the neoconservative cult come in two versions. As Murray N. Rothbard pointed out in a trenchant 1972 study of the Ayn Rand cult:

"Every religious cult has two sets of differing and distinctive creeds: the exoteric and the esoteric. The exoteric creed is the official, public doctrine, the creed which attracts the acolyte in the first place and brings him into the movement as a rank-and-file member. The esoteric creed is the unknown, hidden agenda, a creed which is only known to its full extent by the top leadership, the 'high priests' of the cult. The latter are the keepers of the mysteries of the cult."

An ideological cult, Rothbard observed, has many of the salient features of a religious cult, and essentially the same belief structure: leader-worship, dogmatism, and a hatred of heresy, characteristics the neocons exhibit in abundance. Leader-worship fairly describes the neoconservative theory of the Presidency: the President, as Warrior-King, can order torture, and even suspend the Constitution. As for dogmatism: instead of acknowledging and analyzing the utter wrongness of their expectation that we would be greeted with cries of "Hail our liberators!" by the Iraqis, the neocons are now blaming the disaster on the allegedly flawed "execution" of their policies. Hatred of heretics is certainly an animating force among them, second only to blood-lust: just ask Michael Lind, or, indeed, anyone who has crossed their path.

The official exoteric story is that there is really no such creature as a neocon, it's all an "anti-Semitic" conspiracy theory dreamed up by Pat Buchanan and myself. The Iraq war was driven, not by highly-placed individuals with a specific agenda, but by historical necessity: the necessity, that is, of responding to the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The neoconservative vision, they innocently aver, is based on building "democracy" not only in the Middle East, but throughout the entire world, and establishing what they call the "benevolent global hegemony" of a rising American Imperium, an "empire of liberty."

The real story, as Hersh clearly realizes, is quite different: Paul Wolfowitz is the greatest Trotskyist not only of our time but of all time. Certainly greater than Trotsky himself, the founder of the Red Army and prophet of world revolution who wound up in some rundown Mexican backwater with an icepick sticking out of his head. Trotsky's "Fourth International," stillborn, lived in Stalin's shadow for all of its brief half-life, but in that time managed to generate a tendency that would eventually culminate in another sort of world revolution – and yet, on second thought, not all that different.

Deputy Defense Secretary Wolfowitz, whom Hersh describes as the "genius" of the neocon operation, knows well his antecedents, as Jeet Heer has reported in the National Post, citing neocon writer and "ex"-Trotskyist Stephen Schwartz:

"To this day, Schwartz speaks of Trotsky affectionately as 'the old man' and 'L.D.' (initials from Trotsky's birth name, Lev Davidovich Bronstein). 'To a great extent, I still consider myself to be [one of the] disciples of L.D,' he admits, and he observes that in certain Washington circles, the ghost of Trotsky still hovers around. At a party in February celebrating a new book about Iraq, Schwartz exchanged banter with Wolfowitz about Trotsky, the Moscow Trials and Max Shachtman.

"'I've talked to Wolfowitz about all of this,' Schwartz notes. 'We had this discussion about Shachtman. He knows all that stuff, but was never part of it. He's definitely aware.' The yoking together of Paul Wolfowitz and Leon Trotsky sounds odd, but a long and tortuous history explains the link between the Bolshevik left and the Republican right."

The Trotskyists believed that the Revolution had gone off the rails, due not to the inherent brutality and immorality of the Bolshevik program, but because the Party didn't have the revolutionary zeal to carry the struggle forward into Europe and beyond. They sneered at the Stalinist concept of "socialism in one country," and correctly pointed to the Marxist classics, including Lenin, as proof that the Kremlin had betrayed the cause of true Communism, which they identified with a militant internationalism. Instead of sitting around liquidating Russian kulaks, Stalin, the Trots averred, should have gone on to liquidate all kulaks, everywhere.

Trotsky, by this time, had been forced into exile, and, after wandering through Europe, finally wound up in Mexico just as Hitler and Stalin concluded their infamous Pact – and sent the small Trotskyist grouplet, as well as the rest of the international Communist movement, into a tailspin of confusion.

Trotsky, always sensitive to the charge by Stalinists and their fellow travelers that he was really a bourgeois traitor, had always insisted on defending the Soviet Union "against the Stalinists and in spite of the Stalinists." But with the Nazis and the Commies now in alliance against the Western democratic powers – and poor little Finland in the Soviets' sights! – how was it possible to any longer defend the "workers' fatherland"? That's what Max Shachtman and James Burnham, two of Trotsky's top disciples in America, wanted to know. Trotsky, for his part, could give them no answer they found satisfactory, and so the Trotskyist movement split, with Shachtman and Burnham leaving the Fourth International's American grouplet, known as the Socialist Workers Party, and founding the Workers Party. Burnham departed the newly-minted party almost as soon as it was set up, going on to translate his anti-Stalinism into a full-fledged and full-throated anti-Communism by joining the CIA and winding up as a top editor at National Review.

Shachtman took a much longer, tortuous path to basically the same position: what his leftist opponents and erstwhile comrades in the SWP called "State Department socialism." Shachtman was a tremendously charismatic figure, a pyrotechnic speaker and learned (self-taught) scholar of the Marxist classics, whose ability to justify his latest "turn" in terms of Marxoid dogma might be fairly characterized as acrobatic. Each turn, when it came, took him farther away from his ideological origins – he had started out his political career as a Communist Party functionary in the 1920s.

When the Cold War began to press down on his isolated grouplet with such force that it was put on the list of "subversive" organizations, Shachtman regurgitated a brand new theory: the Soviet Union, in the Shachtmanite view, no longer represented socialism, but instead constituted a new and even more terrible danger than Western capitalism: bureaucratic collectivism. From that point on, Shachtman and his followers began to advocate a hard foreign policy line against the Soviet Union, a line that got progressively harder with the years. The Shachtmanites eventually disbanded their grouplet, at least in a formal sense, and merged with the remnants of the old Socialist Party, which they effectively took over, changing the name to the Social Democrats, USA (SDUSA).

Shachtman's new strategy was to work within the Democratic party, and the unions: his followers in SDUSA held key positions in the AFL-CIO and the teachers unions. In 1968, he pushed through a Socialist Party resolution endorsing Hubert Humphrey for President, over the feeble protests of Norman Thomas, who lay dying in a hospital. Shachtman ended his days as a key supporter of Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson, known affectionately as the Senator from Boeing, and fully supporting the Vietnam war. Key neoconservative cadre came directly out of the SDUSA: Jeanne Kirkpatrick, James Woolsey, Carl Gershman, Max Kampelman, Penn Kimble, and Elliott Abrams, to name just a few. Scoop Jackson's aides, such as Richard Perle and Abrams, went on to become prominent neocons. Reinforced by successive waves of ex-leftists, such as the Commentary crowd and Irving Kristol (a former Trotskyist follower of Burnham's), Shachtmanism, especially after Shachtman's death, in 1971, essentially morphed into neoconservatism.

"It's not about oil, it's even not about Israel, it's about a utopia they have. It's about an idea they have."

It's widely recognized that we were lied into war by a group of ideologues, but what is this "idea they have"? What kind of "utopia" is Iraq? The old Trotskyist idea of internationalism is here preserved, but for the red flags. Some of them even call themselves "Trotsky-cons." But this "outing" of the neocons has caused them considerable embarrassment – since they are currently masquerading as "conservatives" – and they've struck back by seeking to label the outers "conspiracy theorists" and "anti-Semites." Most deny their Trotskyist heritage – the more strenuous denials coming from the very people who embody it, such as Joshua Muravchik, once a youth leader of the SDUSA and now a rising neocon star over at the American Enterprise Institute.

Similarly vindictive protests at this dredging up of the true history of the neocons are coming, surprisingly, from the ostensible left. Although one might think that they would welcome the chance to excoriate their renegades, the orthodox Trotskyists that still exist on the far-left fringes are angry because they believe Trotsky's good name is being maligned. The "World Socialist Website" goes into a particularly dreary recitation of Trotskyist history that essentially admits the neocons' Shachtmanite lineage, but reduces its significance to a "journalistic turn of phrase" that "is a travesty of historical or political analysis, and only serves to obscure the ideological roots of the neoconservative movement."

But it is the World Socialist Website that is doing the obscuring here: the "world-historical" grandiosity and Jacobinism that animated the Shachtmanites merely changed flags, without changing either its goals or its methods. SDUSA is just as committed to international socialism as it was in Shachtman's day: that they are using the United States Army instead of the Red Army to impose it is only a detail that, in the end, matters little.

The Socialist Workers Party, which still exists, although it has long since given up Trotskyism for Castroism, is also ****ed off at us for maligning their hero, and attacks Antiwar.com in much the same terms as the neocons employ. The headline in their newspaper, The Militant, proclaims: "Jew-hatred, red-baiting: heart of claims of 'neocon' conspiracy." Antiwar.com, in their view, is part of a sinister anti-Semitic conspiracy, along with Seymour Hersh: together, we are trying to "set up" the neocons for getting us into the Iraq war. They go so far as to repeat specific charges made by former Coalition Provisional Authority official Michael Rubin, in National Review, and directed at Karen Kwiatkowski – who exposed the manipulation of intelligence by the "Office of Special Plans" – that somewhat fancifully attempt to link her to the LaRouche group because she once was interviewed by one of their number.

Shoot, what about the fact that LaRouche used to be a member of the Socialist Workers Party – would it be fair to identify the SWP as LaRouchite, on the grounds of mere contact with LaRouche? These people are such hypocrites, and, what gets me is that they're so vulnerable to the very tactics they employ.

The SWP screed is a farrago of lies, evasions, and paranoid ravings. According to the Socialist Workers cult, not only Seymour Hersh and Antiwar.com, but also Michael Lind, the New York Times, Foreign Affairs, "and numerous other publications and internet sites," by identifying neoconservatives as the sparkplugs behind this war, are all engaged in a veritable orgy of "Jew-hatred" and "Trotsky-baiting." The SWP, like the World Socialist Website crew, admits the origins of the Shachtman group in the Trotskyist movement, but then lamely avers that

"Smears about 'Trotskycons' to the contrary, the fact is that no prominent figure among the so-called neoconservatives has ever been a member of the Socialist Workers Party."

But no one ever said that they were. The SWP never amounted to a hill of beans, except briefly in the 1960s and 70s, when they were a key element of the antiwar movement. Today they are an insignificant little sect devoted to selling books, and enriching the cult leaders, while the intellectual descendants of their renegade faction rule the roost in Washington.

Against this Popular Front of Norman Podhoretz and SWP leader Jack Barnes, which includes Joshua Muravchik and the World Socialist Website, opponents of the Iraq war can only marshal the empirical evidence, and the insight that individuals, not abstract "forces" or historical "necessity," control events. And don't imagine this is some obscure debate over historical arcana: the idea that specific individuals are responsible for formulating and implementing American policy in the Middle East is the key to understanding the present debate over the "intelligence failure" that lured us into Iraq. Far from being a "failure," the perpetrators of this massive fraud were wildly successful, at least from their perspective– and the SWP, for some reason, is intent on helping them to get away scot-free.

The idea that animates the War Party is the same idea that has motivated Jacobins of the left and the right since time immemorial: a restless and malevolent energy that impels them to remake the world. Militant utopians inflicted millions of casualties in the twentieth century, and it looks like they intend to surpass their record in the twenty-first. The neocons may be temporarily discredited, and in eclipse: but it would be a mistake to count them out.

The cult of Power, with its roots in the Left and its present hegemony over the Right, is the eternal enemy of peace and liberty. Like any cult, it has an exoteric philosophy, which is presented in reams of essays and proclamations extolling the virtues of "democracy" – while its esoteric meaning is embodied in the photos of the Abu Ghraib house of horrors.

– Justin Raimondo

LHL got his start in american communist/socialist organizations like the SDS, etc.


you can find more details about "American Red" groups here...http://reds.linefeed.org/groups.html

 

borisbad
07-16-2004, 11:48 AM
This is a further addendum to the concerned father. I had been involved with LaRouche from the late 60s SDS through the late 80s and no full well the many changes and shifts that would have made Stalin blush. I know when LaRouche first recruited it was out of the general campus milieu of the anti-war movement. Today we have concern about Iraq and other issues that will necessarily draw concerned youths from the campuses. Of course, LaRouche is trying to capitalize on this by spouting anti Iraq war rhetoric with some general slogans about peace in the Mid East, usually based upon lambasting Israel and covering up for the Arabs.

I agree you won't necessarily get your son to change by demanding he stay away from LaRouche, which will likely get him more committed since to the members family and friends become part of the "enemy". If he has had other interests, I would suggest that he look at what LaRouche preaches versus what he actually practices. I also agree with one of the other writers, that he should examine the writings over the years and find how LaRouche can conveniently change course over the years while continually espousing views that directly contradict earlier ones. Mention has been made where there are sites showing his earlier writings.

I also agree you can even tell your child it's admirable if he has ideals like opposition to the war, or concern with third world countries or appreciation for classical music, but that doesn't mean one has to devote one's life slavishly to any one organization, LaRouche or otherwise.

If he believes that LaRouche is really the modern day Plato then have him critically analyze all the axioms that the organization claims, and see if they square up with the practice. For instance, LaRouche proclaims unlimited growth, but tells members that they cannot have children, and has even forced members to have abortions. Is that "pro-life"?

Hope you get your son back. And while some of the members have remained for many years, usually because at a certain point they become trapped, many do join and leave soon thereafter, hopefully this will include your son.

 

.......
07-16-2004, 12:55 PM
The SWP is DEFINITELY another political cult to steer clear of, they brainwash thier members, are involved with Muslim fundamentalists and have millions of front groups all over the place who people do not know are controlled by the SWP.

Stay WELL CLEAR of them if you live in Europe.

 

Anonymous
07-16-2004, 02:03 PM
Lest anyone think LaRouche's antisemitism is a thing of the past:

"The German-speaking Jew, like the echoing representative of the Yiddish Renaissance in Eastern Europe, emerged from the time of Moses Mendelssohn's radiated influence from Berlin as typically the most precious asset, per capita of total population, in physical science, Classical artistic composition and performance, in the practice of medicine, and so forth. These were as much Germans as any other German, and a most precious part of that total population to any sane German patriot. There was no human interest which has motivated either Hitler's crimes against those Jews, or the Zionist right-wing fanatics' crimes against the Palestinians. Therefore, the near extinction of that portion of Germany's citizens, and similar crimes against the Yiddish Renaissance, in particular, in Eastern Europe, were the crimes of, not human beings, but individuals, such as Spain's notorious Torquemada, on which creatures such as Hitler were modeled, transformed into predatory beasts, virtual hyenas. In other words, men and women transformed from humans, into Synarchists."

--The 'Maritornes':
A Tavern of Fascist Prostitutes
by Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.

December 26, 2003

In other words, Judaism as such - the Torah, the Talmud, the gaonim, the shuls and yeshivas, the piety, the buring devotion to Hashem - is of no value in comparison with the impiety of Jews supposedly enlightened by exposure to Germanic Kultur. One can only imagine what the Germans would be like today without the Torah (as mediated by Christianity) which antedates Weimar by nearly three thousand years.

Only an uneducated boob could buy into LaRouche's historical digressions.

a.

 

xlcr4life
07-16-2004, 06:17 PM
Mr Baker,

I would like to also support what some other people here have said. I joined at an age similar to your son. I have a good idea of what motivates a smart young man who is concerned about the world to do what he wants to do. I was in his shoes many years ago. This was before we had an internet capability to get more info very quickly. It took me a long time to figure things out by hearing the rumors, seeing the actual events take place, and making my own decision. I never changed in my concern for world affairs or my interest to study things, I just changed the people I associated with.

Your son should always be welcomed back, like the Prodigal son. Knowing that he has a place to return will make it easier. Do not send him money, maybe buy him some clothes every now and then. The group would have people call their families for "medical emergencies" and have the cash signed over to the group.

Let him read the stories here from people who were actually in, and why we left. I really have no concern with what they do, except for the people who will be abused and broken by them. Let us do the math. If he is 18, then he was born in 1986, interesting.

Since he wishes to go to the NJ office, let me familiarise him with some people who were busy conniving when he was born. The head of the place is the closest thing to a Madman you will ever meet named Dennis Speed. He will be keeping your son up till 4Am or so everynight. During the day he will hyperventilate, shout and tremble like a water pipe ready to burst. Your son can ask Dennis about the time in New Brunswick he seemed to have a problem with his wife Lynne, a problem that seemed to be a precursor of further problems. Dennis will have no trouble keeping your son out till 11 PM each night if the quotas are not met.

Your son than can ask Dennis's wife, Lynne Speed about how she was arrested and put on trial for various finacial irregularities while he was watching Barney as a baby.

There are some other people to ask questions involving how they and several people left the Boston and NJ office to evade a Federal Grand Jury investigation into credit card fraud. In fact a husband and wife from that Boston Office are in the NJ office now and would love to explain how a dozen people left the country back then and fled to Europe.

Your son can ask the financial officers if any money was repaid to the supporters who lent us thousands of dollars in exchange for notes. That would explain why the people who were with us when your son was born, are no longer with us, sued us and became witnesses in the Federal trials.

Since this is NJ, he can ask for the transcripts of the trials in NY and the civil cases with a major NJ bank that went on in the 80's.

If your son really wants to find out some history. Ask about how many women were pressured into getting abortions and how so many of the older members are childless.

He can also ask "where did all of the older Jewish members go?

The saddest thing to see was how after we extracted every dime from the members, we extracted their vitality and brains. After a few years, a person would be in no position to just leave after he or she gave up their families, friends and education. It took many years for some ex members to get their lives back in order.

There is no problem with being passionate about ideas and campaigns, but except for your family, no person is worth giving the prime of your life for.

The same nonsense preached today was there 30 years ago. If your son looks hard enough, he can find the articles about the victims in a major Womans magazine,the Washington Post and Readers Digest. You can find a book by Dennis King called "LHL and the New American Fascism"

How do I know? Like several people here, I was there. I know the players and I know the game.

xlcr4life

 

oldtimer
07-19-2004, 02:45 PM
I'm another ex-LaRouchie, from a long time ago. Personally, I don't think trying to get a young person to read Lyn's old writings or documents about the history of the organization is likely to do much good. When you're in love with an idea and a group and an image of yourself as a world-historical figure, a lot of tedious old crap isn't going to hold much interest for you. Also, even though there's no question in my mind that the group is a cult, I don't think the record is as unambiguous as us ex-members would like to think. LaRouche's writing is so convoluted that you can convince yourself he's saying pretty much whatever you want him to say. E.g., the recently posted "proof" of his continued anti-Semitism was hardly something that would convince the average jury, let alone a true believer. And the organization's history of zig-zagging from left to right and back again isn't really all that shocking, either--remember how we all learned how to just roll with endless 90-degree turns back in the day?

A while back someone posted do's and don'ts for parents of people in cults, and I thought they were right on. My parents stayed in contact with me pretty much throughout the 12 years I was in, despite some really obnoxious behavior on my part. When I was finally ready to leave, that contact with them made it a lot easier. The part about not giving money is crucial, I'd say. It seems a lot like dealing with someone with a substance abuse problem. You have to keep letting them know that you love them and that there's a future waiting for them, and not get drawn into being punitive or angry, and not enable their self-destructive behavior. Good luck, and hang in there.

 

xlcr4life
07-19-2004, 04:10 PM
Old timer. You are right in not relying on very old documents to help some one. The cases from the 80's, when the young man was born are very relevent. What the group does to newer recruits is to rewrite that whole episode and make LHL to be some one who had no idea what was going on, and tried to stop it.

Think back to January 1974 when LHL made his discovery that Cuban frogmen were in the Hudson ready to come ashore and assasinate him, while other memebrs were being brainwashed. There was no internet or central location to judge what was going on. Back then, the group used the fact that our critics were leftists to show how important we were. Any idea of LHL being a crackpot was from "outsiders" not insiders.

Some of us here get emails from around the world from people who were getting close to the cult, and wanted a second opinion. That is one reason why you never see any open LHL forums around anymore. Unlike your and my era, we have instant access to info. So the next round of articles will not go away like the often obscure articles did 20 to 30 years ago.

Mr. Baker. Type in "Jeremiah Duggan and Larouche" on google to see what happened when another bright young man began to question what was happening to him. The group has had an intense blackout and silence among its members over this. In fact, most members for almost a year had no idea what this was about.

Let me explain to Mr. Baker why his son is important to Mr. and Mrs. Speed in NJ. They are both in their mid 50's now. This has been their main source of a meek income for more than 30 + years. Except for some cash that Lynne's mother can send them, this is it. There are no kids as they both felt that having children would interfere with Larouche's secret plan to save the Universe. Right now, they both have to divy out the trips to Leesburg to attend the funerals for their generation of LHL sysophants. The last to go is a guy named Mark Burdman a few weeks ago. There is no way that the two of them, along with the other dead enders are going to admit that they abused and shafted people for a madman. The last guy who had a serious talk with himself over what his 30 years with LHL amounted to drove to Conneticut and shot him self to death. Your son, along with the others is the rent, telephone, grocery, untility, car payment and entertainment providers. The yute will also serve as the retirement plan, if they can live that long.

Some of us write things because we have seen too many people get hurt emotionally, physically and financially. I can read a review of a poorly made car in many places. Reading about the horror stories from people who actually paid good money and were screwed means a lot more to me.

Keep a close eye on valuables in the house like coin collections and money that you have set aside for his education. The group busted open a lot of trust funds of young members in the 70's. In the 80's, members took out credit card and other loans, and were not paid back. the present Leesburg dead enders have refinaced and multiplied their debt for this one last hurrah. Check your sons mail for new bills. Many members who left after a few years were saddled with tens of thousands of debts from the group that was in their name.

These are heartless people, who, if it were not for the trail of tragedy, no one would care about. Some of us still care enough to give a damn. It could be worse. You could have a daughter who gets pregnant and is pressured to get an abortion so she has more time to save humanity. We aint kidding about that.

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
07-19-2004, 06:52 PM
Oldtimer,

A is A.

To praise A alone for being B is to deny A is A.

To praise Jews on the basis of their Germanicity, if you will, alone, with no reference to their differentia over millennia, is to deny the Torah, the heart of Jews whether observant or not. So to deny the essence of A would be to be anti-A. LaRouche always goes out of his way to sterilize Judaism, to deny its uniquely Hebraic contents. I am a Roman Catholic, so I have no particular axe to grind on the issue, but facts are facts. LaRouche therefore, among many other nasty things, is a principled antisemite.

Since at least 1970 the LC is a cult by any standard.

You must have had wonderful parents to bear with you for so long: they are a good model for Mr. Baker to follow. I agree that "reading" isn't the point, rather loving, and maintaining a constant presence in the child's life.

Best to all.

a.

 

Richard Michael Baker
07-19-2004, 07:53 PM
Thank all of you for your insight on Larouche. Hearing this from ex-members is enlightening. The Convention is coming, and the Larouche calls are coming more frequently. Will changing our number help?
Mr. Baker

 

Anonymous
07-19-2004, 11:02 PM
Hi Mr Baker,

Just tell the LHL office not to call you anymore.

If they still do, you can file a police report.

They'll 'enjoy' the fact that they got you to change numbers - they'll just tell yr son that that is 'proof' that you 'freaked out' , etc.

I remember a long-time LHL cult member - Bruce Director - told me once that the nat. office gets calls from GE India asking about unpaid bills on leased equipment.

Bruce would just laugh at these calls, tell the person calling that what they are doing is phone harassment, and that he could get them arrested if they were doing it in the US, and hang up.

The reason the org has so many shell companies is that once one company gets red-lined for unpaid bills, etc. they will use another shell to lease/rent stuff that they have no intention of paying for.

 

Anonymous
07-20-2004, 01:50 AM
I was recruited when I was young, and their daily, unremitting calls caused nothing but chaos in my household. So I would recommend changing the number post haste - but for the fact that your son may turn around and provide them the new one. I would change the number unless they are likely to get the new one; if my family had changed our number, I would likely not have attended my first "briefing" because although I was drawn to their ideas, I was weirded out by their behavior, body odor, and conspiracy theories. It depends on how deep your son is into their madness already ... but chopping off contact in every way possible seems best.

a.

 

xlcr4life
07-20-2004, 04:07 AM
Mr. Baker. I would both change your phone number and figure out how to have your son involved in a REAL political or help group that actually does something. With this election year there are plenty of choices in either Dem or Rep offshoots. There are real charities that do real things. Look up something like Habitat for Humanity and compare their ability to actually build houses, compared to the LHL cult's ability to squeeze 6 to a room and still not pay the rent.

You can also look at school volunteer work such as math and reading tutoring. Your son, along with many other people have the desire to do some worthwhile things. There are plenty of places for that today. That is one reason why the cult needs to isolate your son and attack anyone or anything else, 24/7. There are former members who have left 20 years ago who are now ready to retire from the teaching professions they entered.

Your son may think it is a rush to go to a National convention. The sad truth is that they will be there as a sideshow, while LHL is off in Europe on another delusion to declare his impending independent candidacy. I would even guess that they would sucker Beltran for a few more bucks and offer him a VP role, while he still has some cash.

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
07-20-2004, 01:40 PM
Law enforecement specialists should zero in on LaRouche's spam operations as a source of funds. I notice since a poster exposed John Covici ("Tom") as a spam artist, his posts - and those of his fellow zombies - vanished.

If you want to know how Fearless Leader keeps himself liquored up, FOLLOW THE SPAM.

Thank you.

 

Anonymous
07-20-2004, 05:42 PM
there is an interesting summary of LHL's early days, etc. at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_LaRouche

 

borisbad
07-21-2004, 07:24 AM
I would like to chime in about the advice. Unfortunately, I didn't listen for many years to people who talked to me about LaRouche, despite my own misgivings, which continued throughout my tenure. Sometimes, the only thing that kept me in the org. was thinking "well we're being attacked by all these people like Henry Kissinger and NBC, we must be important." But the sad thing is that LaRouche manipulates people's legitimate concerns, on the one hand talking gradiosely about third-world development, humanistic culture, developing minds, while at the same time stultifying any actual creativity in the members by enforcing shear Spartan conditions and mind degrading "ego stripping" on anyone who might be a dissident.
I remember before leaving the org. I was seeing someone outside the organization. Phil Rubinstein and Dennis Speed of course tried to put the kibbosh on that. I'm sure they considered this female to be an agent, or at least that's what they would tell the members. They still tell people that's why I left, as if there were not 20 years of doubts and betrayals. The only thing that kept me going was the fact I always kept a part time job so I didn't rely on the "stipends", and kept up contacts with my family before leaving for good.

 

xlcr4life
07-21-2004, 04:54 PM
As the years role by since I left the Bizarro world, I am often both amazed and stunned by what is revealed by members. When You are in the Bizarro world, all of the outside is defined for you. You do not read the books or articles of the people you are denouncing. You do not hear the testimony of the victims of our fraudulent capers. You will instead hear a sanitized version of events that will isolate you more and more.

The LHLwebsites are promoting the 20th anniversary of the Schiller Institute. There is praise for the heroic work of a dead ender named Nancy Spannaus who was the figure head of a side show we started called the "Club of Life". Now what was going on back then that should be noted? We had an anti drug group set up called the "National Anti Drug Coalition". We raised a lot of money selling subscriptions to a monthly magazine. But, in typical LHL style, we stopped mailing out the magazines, still sold the subs, and then the blamed the drug lobby and Henry Kissinger for thwarting us. Among the many subscribers we sold to were people who were in the Right to Life groups. Since this was virgin territory, we called them up and tried to push LHL and our cult as the superior people. The RTL supporters were not that stupid and quickly hightailed from us. But not before we got some cash from their supporter lists. Like every group we targeted, we burnt them up real quick and moved on to the next group. We would switch gears and create some type of common bond with a layer of people, and go to town on them. This never changes.

What is most upsetting in all of this was our pushing Spannaus as the head of this, while Helga would rail away at the UN for connecting aid to abortion rights. Here is what is most upsetting and a very good example of the hideous monstrosity of twisted logic and cultism that the Bizarro world has created.

It was a quiet secret that a few women in the group had abortions. What LHL did at conferences was to carefully twist the desire of members to have kids into a vicious attack on their commitment to "Saving the Human Species". Time and time again we would hear LHL and the sycophantic leaders on down attack some poor woman for being a traitor for wanting to have kids.

Long after I left the Bizarro World, I stumbled upon the words of a few former members. One woman had estimated that HUNDREDS of abortions were done via high pressure of pregnant members. One woman had three over a three year period. I often wondered why so many married couples had a collection of cats in their apts, but never thought of kids. Then as I joined and heard LHL and company answer members questions, I understood why. Every year I come across former female members who had abortions after an all night encounter with the leadership. Most of these woman had children after they left and have nightmares over how they were treated.

What does this have to doi with Nancy Spannaus? Well, it turns out that she was considered the grand dame in the NYC National Office for marching women into the providers office. For this, we had money to spend. To be fair, we had a day care center in the Bronx for people who had kids BEFORE they joined, but the stories of individuals being harrangued and harrased are no longer just whispers.

A German woman who was a member of the European office wrote a book about the cult when she left. She devotes pages to the pressure on memners to have abortions in West Germany under Helga's command. I do not wish to name people because of the personal nature of this. But, there is a current female whose husband is quite featured in the publications who tried to have a child for years. From what I heard, she was 5 months pregnant when her husband and Spannaus accompanied her to end the pregnancy. I was not there for this, but I remember the rumors.

To have these people even remotely talk about life is an absurdity. But, in the Bizarro World, it all makes sense. There has to be no shame in a woman who discourages people from having kids, while having two of her own trotting in the office.

When you total the financial, emotional and physical carnage that this cult has caused to the people who believed in certain ideals, then you no longer care what happens to certain people. I was flabbergasted at one posters mention of a recent abortion incident that took place in the Baltimore area. Those of you have some personal history of this should expand this story.

Out of respect for some people, I will just say that Karma does exist. Those who were sorry, became blessed. Those who did the pain,
suffered in a certain way 20 years later.

There is a lot more to the stories of the pain that has been inflicted on people by this collection of hypocrites and convicted criminals.

xlcr4life

 

Richard Michael Baker
07-21-2004, 06:46 PM
I would like to thank all of you again for the background and experiences you have shared. My son is still at home, for now, and has agreed that some of this is making him think a bit. But we are still on the critical list.
I would like to encourage anyone who has left the moveement to please tell their story of what really happens. What's a day in a $40 a week youth movement volunteer like? What are the living conditions? What if you get sick? What about the pressure to ring in members, to raise money. I really appreciate, Xlcr4life's recounting of the people who have been bilked. Are there any women out there who can come forward to talk about the issue of forced abortion. Would anyone volunteer to email my son Michael to try and help persuade him from not making this move. For those who are reading this plea for the first time, my 18-year-old son, who we believe to have Asperger's Syndrome, a mild form of autism with personality traits that plays right into the Larouche people's hands, wants to leave home and join the Larouche Youth Movement in New Jersey. The convention is coming, and the next three days are critical to stopping him. Every response is important. Please keep them coming. God Bless all of you.
Mr. Baker

 

Anonymous
07-21-2004, 08:43 PM
Here's a question for your son, Mr. Baker.

What is important to him? What worries him in the world?

Is he worried by war? Or hunger? Or lack of housing? Or what?

Then he needs to look at what Mr. La Rouche and friends have done to fix that problem.

Have they stopped any wars? Have they provided food for the hungry? Have they gone out and built houses for those who don't have them?

Or have they sat around talking a lot and not got anything done.

Your son needs to think about what is important to him and then find which people are doing something about that problem. Actions speak much louder than words.

And LHL is full of empty words.

 

Anonymous
07-21-2004, 08:54 PM
Mr. Baker,

Thank you for the updates regarding your son: they help those of us who post here see we're not just gassing but can help others profit from our bitter experience.

Without giving too many details as I do not wish my identity to be known by the vindictive LaRouchites: my experience dates from long ago, but from what I read, things have changed little. When I was a full-time "organizer" I hated every single second of it. Say there are ten people in a local who are full-time "organizers," i.e. those available to be "deployed" in "squads." (N.B. the paramilitary lingo.) The night before the "deployment" the five squads of two each will be determined and you will know who to meet the next morning, usually by 8AM at the latest. The squads are grouped in twos; the assinine signs, the ratty cardtable, the (stolen) milkcrates replete with "literature" all are jammed into the unwashed rental car. By 9AM you're at the site and spend the next eight hours hawking literature and subscriptions, lying to people to manipulate them into doing what you want. At noon, the squad leader calls into the "office" to report on how the deployment is going. Each deployment, by the way, has a target number attached indicating how much money should be raised. It is also expected that contacts be made at each deployment, i.e. people who can be harrassed to death by phone from the "boiler room" in the "office" for money. If the quality of contacts is poor, or an "organizer" supplies contact names with too many wrong numbers, that is cause too for chastisement. If one or the other members are not pulling their weight, they'll get a little talking to from the guy in the "office" by phone to help them get out of their "(ego) state". And that's all it is, standing around a card table, in all kinds of weather, for at least eight hours per day for at least six if not seven (during "mobilizations") days per week. Then you'll be redeployed to another site for the evening or, better yet, be assigned a neighborhood to go to in order to do a "walking tour" which lasts until 8 or 9 PM, depending on how much money is raised. Needless to say, on $40 a week, cash is quietly pilfered from the deployment so that people can EAT. At the end of the day people filter back into the office with their love offerings, and often a mandatory briefing will be inflicted on members until 11PM. The so-called "briefing" is usually a ritual of public abuse by the "leadership" as they rove around the room lighting into one member after another on the basis of their alleged weaknesses. At this time of day, no one has the energy to resist. It is after a few weeks or months of this that an intelligent person begins to wonder what happened to all those beautiful ideas I joined to promote? There is not even time to read the literature you are hawking, let alone have a moment for quiet reflection, to date outside the organization (which I did in defiance of the local leadership), to read a newspaper. When I had first joined it was the custom to give one night off a week plus Sunday, but for the last few years it was seven days a week with no pretense of providing time to foster the intellectual development of the membership. I especially hated the walking tours because I was forcibly confronted door after door with people living normal, healthy, productive lives whereas I was advocating stuff I knew in my heart was nuts. Life in the National Caucus of Labor Committees is brutal, not only to the mind and body, but especially to the spirit.

If there is only one thing I could say to Baker, Jr., it would be this: ignore the "ideas" and watch the behavior of these people. Why do these people vilify your Mom and Dad? Compare your parents' love for you with these people. When they were trying to recruit me, they flattered me in many ways, made me feel needed by humanity, etc. But once I was in, it was like day into night, with a ceaseless round of abuse 24/7.

Also, Baker, Jr., if you want the feel of life inside the organization, I suggest two books which you can read in either order:

_Animal Farm_, by George Orwell;
_Darkness at Noon_, by Arthur Koestler.

The opening scene of Dreiser's _American Tragedy_ I vaguely recall describes the sense of being a street corner preacher with which I identified when I read it. Standing out in public twelve hours a day, making an absolute ass of yourself for a millionaire who doesn't care enough about you to pay you a living wage makes one feel acutely lonely and cut off from humanity.

Make something of your life: don't throw it away on these vampires.

Good luck.

a.

 

Anonymous
07-22-2004, 01:41 AM
Mr baker,

the org - besides trying scaring yr son with stories of the world's impending doom, they will also try to impress yr son with "science" classes.

these classes are mainly conducted by one Bruce Director. While the other boomers in the org are tempermental, Bruce is a cunning fox. One who plays it very cool - though he is no better than an average criminal.

What yr son must realize that the "science" (which will be heavily interlaced with LHL's opinions and 'discoveries') that the org delivers in those 'cadre schools' are copy pasted from books you could find at powells bookstore - or the public library.

they might mention something they lifted from other people's works (though without any acknowledgement) that high school or college didn't cover - and start going on and on about how these 'cadre classes' are actually better than high scholl, college, etc...like 'the school of athens', etc.

they'll also get some brainwashed yoots (called "leaders") to give some classes - hoping to get the other yoots jealous over all the attention that these "leaders" are getting - hoping that yr son would then want to be more like them.

i attended some 'classes' by these youth 'leaders' and it's nothing but regurgitation from what was fed to them by the org....the whole show is to let some youths act like they are in charge to sucker in other youths.

the main thing to remember is...be careul of bruce director ..and don't let yourself be 'impressed' by other yoots acting like 'leaders'.

parents have been known to call bruce director up asking him why is he telling their kids to drop out of college. bruce's trick is to answer..."i'm not telling yr son to drop out of college, i'm asking you to work with your son, and let him do what he wants".

btw...bruce enjoys making fun of the way Indians speak English with an accent...especially when GE India call him up about unpaid leases.

 

Anonymous
07-22-2004, 04:18 AM
It is important to realize that LaRouche is a crank and intellectual snake-oil salesman. Gauss would have spotted LaRouche's intellectual poverty immediately, much as he did Hegel's - and proceeded to ridicule it. The notion of applying one of Gauss's most celebrated results in a political context, while very "sexy" to a callow yoot, is so absurd as to be beyond risible. The very reason the organization has always zeroed in on those 18-25 is to zero in on the uneducated; Lyn himself is uneducated, and that most dangerous of men, the self-educated. Anyone with any experience of life has occasionally run into the self-educated and they all share the same knowitallism and lack of success as Fearless Leader. As Ring Lardner once observed in a related vein, "Whenever I see a self-made man, I think of what a poor job he's done." Of course LaRouche's minions would say that those of us with degrees are miseducated: but then now when I hang out at airports it's only because I have a destination.

a.

 

xlcr4life
07-22-2004, 06:35 PM
A new article that appeared in the UK. This is a 40 year old running cruel joke.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=542953

Mr. Baker. Always keep in mind that we have had members who run to us while running away from something. What the goup does well is to pump you up as an insider of world events and as an active participant. For an 18 year old, this means a lot to think that you have this type of power. The real power will be used against you as you will find yourself falling behind in real skills, both social and intellectual. Financially, you will be in debt beyond your wildest dreams with a new emergency every week to keep you at bay.

Since he is thinking of NJ. He can ask a dead ender named Michael Leppig what type of support he provided for his daughter while she was growing up. Did he fund her college education? Was he there for her or LHL when they both needed attention? Who was more important? Was he able to pay his child support and go beyond that to what a father should do for his daughter? Questions, questions, questions.

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
07-23-2004, 12:35 AM
Hi,

The german lady who worked for the LHL org in germany for 16 years before leaving is Aglaja Beyes Corleis. She wrote a book about the org, but the book is in German, an dis titled...Erred: My life in a radical Polital Organisation (Aglaja Beyes Corleis), Herder publishing house, Freiburg, 1994.

There is a brief summary at http://www.religio.de/dialog/295/295s31.html (in Germna).

For those who can't read german, search for "Aglaja Beyes-Corleis" at google...you should see the link "Verirrt in eine totalitäre Gruppe"...then click "traslate this page"...and google will translate it into english...

the translation is sloppy...but you can get a sense of what she is trying to say....Dennis King was not the only one writing about LaRouche's criminal activities....

 

Kheris
07-23-2004, 05:07 PM
Hey XLCR, my email correspondent sent me that UK article, and of course claimed the Baroness Symons was behind it. According to him she is an evil so-and-so. For the life of me I don't know why they think the Baroness would bother regurgitating info that is accessible via the Internet. I can find that stuff without too much effort. But then, I keep forgetting that these folks have to find demons to explain their own failings.

 

Anonymous
07-24-2004, 08:19 AM
http://www.politicallinks.co.uk/POLITICS2/BIOG/ld_BIOGS/bio.asp?id=2226

More power to her.

 

Richard Michael Baker
07-24-2004, 10:19 AM
Continued thanks for the postings. My son is coming to understand some of the dangers involved in this group, but still talks about wanting to go to the convention, that Louis (a Larouche person) is a good guy, and that he would come back after the convenstion. My wife is fearful if he goes, that he might not come back, or will get more indoctrinated, especially with his tendencies because of Asperger's Syndrome. My wife's name is Terese, if any of you would like to address this. The convention in Boston is 90 miles away, and I'm sure Louis and company would love to pick him up on the way from New Jersey.

Mr. Baker

 

Anonymous
07-24-2004, 12:47 PM
Mr. Baker,

Given from what you have read here, that the LaRouche people are wittingly or unwittingly part and parcel of a criminal outfit, why would you permit your son to go? He will get a big rush out of going, it will all be very exciting, and even if he should return home (which is not certain) the memories of this thrilling event and the illusion of participating in history will continue to lure him back to the group. One of the attractions of the NCLC for an intelligent, good-hearted individual is that they have the answers for everything, from convention politics to Riemannian geometry, whereas you and I both know that mastery of politics or mathematics requires years of dedication, hard work, paying one's dues - the LaRouche people bypass all that by giving young people the rush of accomplishment without them having to do anything for it but kowtow to an octogenarian drop-out and cult leader. Posting at this website has even caused certain positive feelings and commitments to well up in me from the days when I shared those illusions, but fortunately I am now an adult with a wealth of experience from which to draw so as not to be drawn into the same folly any longer. And don't get me wrong: many of the people in the NCLC, particularly those at the lower levels, are very good people with all the right motivations. But I hope and pray you and your wife are adult enought to see through all the bells and whistles. Your son should be spending the next weeks preparing for his freshman year in college, a task appropriate to his station in life - not running around in the streets like a bloody ass for a convicted felon and certifiable sociopath.

You must cut off all contact with these people, I can't emphasize this enough. Would you let your son go off for a week with the Hare Krishna? It's exactly the same thing.

a.

 

Kheris
07-25-2004, 12:38 PM
Mr. Baker

I found this article (http://larouchein2004.net/pages/pressreleases/2004/040722expose_lym.htm) at the Larouchein2004 site. It appears the DNC is taking action to keep the LYM out of the convention.

You might remind your son that the DNC has barred Larouche as an official party flag bearer because he is not a registered voter. That is because the Commonwealth of Virginia bars convicted felons from registering to vote. LHL may want to blame all manner of folk for his problems, but the fact remains that he is not, will not, and by DNC rule cannot be the party candidate. The rule was tested in court by LHL and the DNC won.

At this point, your son would do better to stay home and follow the convention via media and the web.

 

Kheris
07-25-2004, 02:00 PM
Mr. Baker

I would like to offer this (http://www.yda.org/) as an alternative. If your son wants to engage with the Dems, their own youth organization might be an alternative worth exploring.

 

Kheris
07-25-2004, 05:27 PM
Larouche ran a webcast today that was promoted as "A Real Democratic Platform for 2004". Look for transcripts later at the Larouche website. Did anyone else listen to it?

Larouche announced that he will launch a PAC on 7/30/04 and will cooperate in the effort to defeat Bush. That's the platform once you clear away all the rhetorical underbrush. Some platform. It appears that he may have already conceded the candidacy to Kerry, without actually saying so. Of course he also sees himself as getting a seat at the table and influencing outcomes.

In the webcast Larouche was kind to Kerry in a patronizing way. He insisted that Kerry suffered from being a baby boomer, was living a lie in not being himself and is controlled by others. Neither Kerry nor Edwards are morally qualified to be President, but are more qualified than Bush. Larouche does not seem to know how to characterize Edwards since he isn't a boomer.

Larouche compared voting for Bush/Cheney to voting for Hitler.

In a press release from 7/22 his campaign claimed that the DNC was locking out the LYM from the DNC convention and cancelling paid for hotel rooms. During the webcast it was reported that Terry McAuliffe, the DNC chair asserted that he was not responsible for the cancelled hotel rooms. He suggested Dick Cheney might be the party behind the action, and evidently the Larouche campaign is going to issue a new release quoting McAuliffe. By the way, all of the politicos who are mentioned in the release are State Reps, except for Robert White who is a city councilman in Cleveland, Ohio.

So who locked out the LYM? I don't know, although security is extremely tight in Boston. The DNC has the right to decide who will be credentialed for the convention. So if they choose to lock out the LYM from participating, that is their call and they have to live with the fallout. The matter of the hotel rooms is another issue, since this is the breaking of a contract and it prevents the LYM from exercising its right to peacefully assemble and protest. However, they have a reputation for being disruptive, and I would imagine that was the basis for the intervention with the hotel. I think that was silly, although one altercation has already erupted between a couple of groups. BTW, my money is on the Dept. of Homeland Security as having something to do with the cancellations.

Any other observations?

 

Anonymous
07-25-2004, 05:56 PM
"Larouche announced that he will launch a PAC on 7/30/04" --- after this PAC, there will be another, and another, and another....

all the more excuses for tom and sean to work the streets....

 

Anonymous
07-26-2004, 05:38 AM
Are Quakers permitted to follow sports? If so, LHL, Jr. probably was a Red Sox fan. That would go far in accounting for his evil.

 

Kheris
07-26-2004, 03:45 PM
Anon 192 - that would be the way to keep on bringing in the bucks.

 

xlcr4life
07-26-2004, 03:58 PM
Seriously folks, read this LHL 2004 press release:
http://larouchein2004.net/pages/pressreleases/2004/040716_nva_terror.htm

Now who is this Fernando character? Fernando and his wife Robyn were the founders of our Mexican and South American operations. I think they had two kids, so you know that puts them behind the 8 ball. Fernando became a National Executive Committee member, a big cheese so to speak. Fernando made what was a blasphemical error by contemplating if there was a way to make the remaining leftovers of the org seem rational and less of a cult. For this to happen, it would require that the main psycho be put out to pasture so to speak and hidden behind the scenes. Kinda like your crazy grandfather or uncle that every family has. This description of LHL is not far off the truth. There was an article in my local Newsday several months ago that described LHL as just like your blabbering crazy uncle your allowed to see once a year.

Now I can't write about all of the intricate details of how this Bizarro world in Leesburg works as far as how sane Fernando was or is. Needless to say, he is gone. So he joins the ranks of every member who left and has become Bizarro World public enemy # 1.

I read and reread this press release to make sure that I understood that LHL is saying that the elections in November could be postponed because of a terror incident that Fernando would be pulling off.

My main guess for Fernando is that he is preparing his kids for the fall school year and buying new clothes and supplies for his kids.

He probably is also trying to figure out how to make a living and catch up with the 30 years of his life that were taken away via his tireless support of this madman. So there you have it Mr. Baker and everyone else. You spend a generation arranging cocktail parties for deposed tin pot generals south of the border for El Loco to rub elbows with, and your retirement package is a national press release about how you will blow up Northern Virginia.

If you were in Boston trying to put the best face forward for Kerry and the Democratic party, would you let a collective of Larouche worshipers for one second pretend to be a part of the party?

My other reason based on the cult's history is that they stiffed the hotel and/or used some fakakta credit card payment plan to pay for the room. I wouldn't be surprised if they told Mr. Bakers son that there was some type of mixup with the billing and that we need to charge the rooms on his credit card. Maybe the hotel thought that when the LHL campaign asked for a room for 20 people, it was for a meeting room, not a hotel room for 20 LYM to sleep in.

We did that for an FEF banquet once where we booked a dinner, sold tickets, didn't pay the bill and then had supporters paying the tab while we promised to pay them back. Of course you know the rest of the story.

We did another sell job on the members when we stopped mailing out magazines and then blamed it on an international conspiracy commanded by Henry Kissinger and the Banks. The real reason was that we did not pay the printer in NJ a small fortune that we owed him and we did not pay the Post Master.

The First National Bank of Bizarro may be having cash flow problems, not to Germany, but to Boston. The odds are looking better for a Larouche/Beltran ticket this November.

You really have to have gone through the Bizarro World to fully understand how this enclosed world thinks. Even after you leave, you still learn more.

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
07-26-2004, 09:50 PM
xlcr4life -

as I understand it, LHL would have had to state his candicacy as an independent this week if he were going to be an option come November

Under his current plan, he doesn't need Beltran or anyone else to provide him with legitimacy. He's using the Democrats as his cover and he's going to try to leave this life as an elder statesman. He's going to dump the faithful and favor those who have been duly elected then claim that's been his plan all along. He'll make out like he's been the unwitting innocent at the hands of manipulative maniacs.

He's trying to make himself look stable and the organization around him as fools and traitors to America. He's more dangerous than ever to his people now, especially the kids.

 

Anonymous
07-26-2004, 10:13 PM
Also

Seriously folks, read this LHL 2004 press release:
http://larouchein2004.net/pages/pressreleases/2004/040716_nva_terror.htm


Talk about reds under the bed, paranoia and McCarthyism! Watch out Harley, LHL has just discredited everything you had to say about "The Big Knife" and LHL's thoughts on that period of history. Looks like he's changed his mind and started up his own witch hunts.

Who's next?

 

Anonymous
07-27-2004, 07:48 AM
What is 'the big knife?'

 

Anonymous
07-27-2004, 06:57 PM
Check out the Schiller Institute site.

 

Anonymous
07-28-2004, 05:11 AM
Anyone with a less cryptic (i.e., more useful) reply?

 

xlcr4life
07-28-2004, 03:39 PM
Anon 128, try this and then navigate through the site for other articles.
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/conf-iclc/2004/pres_day/harley_odets.html

This is like fishing, you cast the line and reel in the big one when they are jumping.

 

Anonymous
07-28-2004, 07:17 PM
"The Big Knife" was a play put on in LA by Robert Beltran and friends last year. He produced and starred in it then Harley wrote articles about it.

It was Harley's remarks I was referring to so I thought it best for you to read them for yourself. Or hear them because it was spoken about at great length at the President's Day conference.

There was nothing cryptic about it. Type Beltran or The Big Knife into the Shiller site's search engine and it's all there for you to read.

Beyond that, I don't want to spread Harley's garbage.

 

xlcr4life
07-30-2004, 04:06 AM
Anon 198 wrote:

"Under his current plan, he doesn't need Beltran or anyone else to provide him with legitimacy. He's using the Democrats as his cover and he's going to try to leave this life as an elder statesman."

This actually makes a lot of sense. LHL always sets the sails to where the wind is coming from. The cult probably looked at how much cash a 527 can get and how much Micael Moore made and figured out what a great deal that is. By tapping the anti Bush rage you can cover up the lunacy of LHL and support a Kerry ticket.

We did the same thing in many elections. Our first attempt was with an "Impeach Jimmy Carter" operation. We then switched to supporting Reagan to get close to the new admin. During this time we hung out with far right people like the Liberty Lobby and other groups and would "Boil" their subscriber and donor lists via the phone teams in each office.

We tapped anti drug concerns and pro nuclear power emotions with our other front groups, or "hats" as we on the phone team would call them. We were quite good at convincing people at the other end of the line that their money would be better used by us in various media ventures. Of course we would just publish some lunacy on the cheapest newsprint we could find and send out the slaves to give it out. What was left was then sent over to either Helga's West German operation or siphoned here into the dark hole called "Lyn's security" which could never be questioned.

So the plan is to raise the booty as the only people who can push that few percentages of votes in one direction, then claim victory as the "Secret behind the Bush defeat".

After the innaugaration we will then attempt to snuggle up to the Kerry people who will wonder what the hell we are doing bothering them. Then we can publish an expose of the newest world wide plot and start the circus all over a again.

It is an interesting idea that as you get rid of and purge all of your members, you can take more credit and make yourself out as the victim of incompetent agents who tried to hold you back.

xlcr4life

 

xlcr4life
08-01-2004, 07:02 PM
Here is a review of the Children of Satan pamphlet.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/07/30/DDGD56N8231.DTL

Back in the 80's we formed something called the National Democratic Policy Committee, an attempt to go legit. We ran a lot of candidates in various elections and pulled off some suprises when we were the only candidate in certain primaries. What happened to it? Well, the first thing we did was to try to clean out the life savings of all of our candidates. So except for a few diehards, we burnt them up like we always do. We run our members now as very few people wish to associate with a jail bird who has more plots than the fiction section of the Library of Congress.

The evolution to a complete sycophantic cult is now embodied with the the formation of LarouchePac. We don't even try to fool people anymore that we are legitimate Democrats who will support the Democratic party. So I guess naming the PAC for Larouche will make sure that you no longer hide the meglomania and slavish sycophantic support that is demanded. So do not count me as objecting to LarouchePac.

If you want to have some fun, read Debbie Freeman's remarks in the Q&A with the LYM where it is discussed that we are a bunch of Larouche Nuts and how to respond to that.

If you REALLY want to have some fun. Clarify this behind the scenes soap opera that LYM yutes talk about. Ask Debbie how come she does not use her maiden name Hanania, since her man left her for a yute. She got herself a yute as well, so I guess everything is negentropic. This may be old news for some of you, but we always thought that the Freeman's were a top notch power couple.

It has to hurt that a character like Al Sharpton addresses the convention inside, while the "Larouche Wing" of the Democratic party is evicted from the hotel as the bogus charlatans they are.

How did we become Democrats you ask? Real easy. In each local office in 1979 the local leaders walked in with registration forms and said that LHL will run in the Democratic Party and we are now all Democrats. OF course the fact that we always seemed to attack the Democrats has caused some people to raise eyebrows. Some people who follow this stuff think that we had some behind the scenes support to do certain dirty tricks on behalf of some right wingers. I leave that for the conspiracists, though we do know how to shift gears for money really fast.

Like did you notice that in all of our attacks on the Synarchists, connecting every evil plot to the Spanish speaking world, that we neglected to print anything about the Nazi networks and anti semitic thinking in the Arab world. Could that have some thing to do with where we are trying to raise money from these days?

LarouchePAC today, Laroucheology coming real soon.

xlcr4life

 

Kheris
08-01-2004, 08:21 PM
Our boy Larouche even gave 11K to the DNC this year. Larouche giveth as Larouche bashes away.

 

Anonymous
08-01-2004, 10:15 PM
"If you REALLY want to have some fun. Clarify this behind the scenes soap opera that LYM yutes talk about. Ask Debbie how come she does not use her maiden name Hanania, since her man left her for a yute. She got herself a yute as well, so I guess everything is negentropic. This may be old news for some of you, but we always thought that the Freeman's were a top notch power couple."


..so Debbie got herself a younger man, and her ex got himself a young girl.

i guess the ugly yutes will be used to work the streets for scraps and the pretty ones will be used as playthings for the boomers....though i remember Fearless Leader telling the boomers to treat the yutes like their own kids..to adopt them..or something like that...but i guess that must be another one of those internal jokes....

while i was at the conf in virginia, i remember mike billington talking about how pretty this yute is, or that yute is.. while he was making his wife take exercise classes to slim down.

since masturbation is forbidden by fearless leader, what's an LHL man to do but to get someone else's daughter to drop out of college before getting her in the sack.

incidently, mike billington likes this yute named erin regan...who was 'selected' to go organizing in germany, france, etc....though i hear she has already paired with some one, but never underestimate how a LaRouchie can scheme to get what he wants... tries to get on the phone with her...even though if she is in germany...to talk about 'organizing', etc...but who knows what's really on his mind....

 

Anonymous
08-01-2004, 10:32 PM
from the la pac website

March 12, 2009, at 03:22 AM

Speaking of irony, I think the irony of this election is that we have a wonderful choice—as Yakov Smirnoff [ph] would say—between Skull and Bones and Halliburton; or, Skull and Bones and Bilderberger! What a country!

My main point is, that—I'm new to this. I once went to a LaRouche thing back in the '70s, and there was some craziness going on about hegemonization of the Left and all this ridiculous garbage—and I'm glad to see that's not an issue any more. I appreciate—

FREEMAN: [off-mike] That's because, now we have hegemony!

Yes Debbie, hegemony it is...

 

xlcr4life
08-02-2004, 06:23 AM
Anon 192, it got better after Debbie announced that even a 55 year old dead ender can get some hegemony.

"FREEMAN: [off-mike] That's because, now we have hegemony!

Q: Yeah! I appreciate your historical context of the Rothschilds and Rockefellers, because that is very key. That is the suppressed public information, that will never be told to the American public. Our history is twisted. And the problem is, that when we start to explain the true history, we're going to be marginalized. And if you can tell us, how we can avoid being marginalized, when we have this overwhelming media lock-step, fascist, whatever-you-want-to-call-it—not dealing with the questions.

Even, Michael Moore did not deal with the controlled demolition of the Twin Towers, which is the murder and treason issue that—it's right there! There's seismic records of this! I mean—I'm just appalled, at the control of information.

What can we do to not be marginalized? Because we're going to be looked at as nut-cases. This is what happens—these are the "LaRouche nuts." And what we can do, as individuals, when we're out there dealing with the public, to make sure that that does not happen, and that—

And another thing, could you do some kind of a breakdown, so this is a small pamphlet, and people don't have to read long texts, because, let's face it—[laughter]. We have a short attention span. This culture has a short attention span. Hence, look at the metro that we have out there—[LaRouche laughs heartily] No! This is what the American public has devolved to! This is what the destruction of the culture has been: That, you know, after two paragraphs, "Ooo! It's going to be too long. Gotta go to the next story."

I mean, there's a lot of material here, that we're sensitive to, and we understand. But, I think we have to understand, the context of the dimwits that we're talking to, sometimes—and try to gear it, so that they can get a real political—. I mean, I would like to see a pamphlet, where a lot of this is broken down into, like one paragraph, for each segment. Y'now what I mean? I mean, it's impossible, but go ahead and answer those!

LAROUCHE: See, I have done some deep work on this sort of thing. The problem with people is, not that they're stupid: They're stupefied—there's a difference. And, the stupefication takes the form of what I've described as "fishbowl mentalities": They're like goldfish, who're so accustomed to living within a fishbowl,....................................

(The next section is the same old speil on the fish bowl and getting the youth 18 to 25 (Something that Larry and Debbie sure did) that LHL has memorised by rote and given to members at EVERY SINGLE conference for the past 30 years or so. Of course there is no mention of how many youth 18 to 25 were mentally, physically and financially destroyed by the LHL gang)......

Q: I still want to know: How do we avoid being marginalized? That's what I'm worried about.

LAROUCHE: Don't worry about it! Because I have a very confident attitude: Either it goes my way, or the whole country goes to Hell! [general laughter]


Well, LHL has been described as a confidence man, an Elmer Gantry of political cults, if you will.

You can't make this stuff up. I honestly can not keep track of the stories that LHL has talked about and printed about terror. On one Arab TV station we have LHL saying that Al Quaeda does not exist and that 9-11 was a US and of course Israeli operation. On the other Arab TV network we have a tape from Bin Laden taking credit for it. Spanish speaking ex LHL members who are now synarchists are plotting to destroy Nothern Virginia. Controlled demolition was used in the WTC?

There is a point where the delusions come so fast, that you really have to keep members working around the clock so they have no chance to catch their breath and question the insanity they are surrounding themselves in.

Oh, one thing to note. We did attract like minded conspiracy nuts all of the time. We never recruited them because most were flat broke. The trick as the one young questioner raised was how to hide the kookery when you meet some one at a LHL card table shrine, and when is it appropriate to unleash the lunacy. That is why we would never let LHL do a public press conference after a few disastrous ones in New Hampshire in 1980. After a few softball questions, the reporters would egg on LHL about the latest assasination plot against him. Of course, LHL was so deluded that he figured that the plots are against him because only he can change the world. LHL would go off the deep end while the cameras were rolling and the film crews were laughing hysterically. We then kept LHL away from the press and convinced him that he was being blackballed because of his role in saving humanity.


xlcr4life

 

Kheris
08-04-2004, 08:38 PM
Thought I'd share this with you; came from my LYM correspondent regarding the Boston Convention and a question from me on the impact of the 11K contribution. I already sent a response and may send yet another.

The real way he got Kerry's attention is through the deployment of the LYM in Boston. That event has significantly altered the geometry of the situation for the better in regards to LaRouche's position within the Democratic party.

 

Anonymous
08-04-2004, 09:00 PM
LOL! That's not how I hear it!

 

Anonymous
08-04-2004, 10:01 PM
Now we see why Lyn insists on a pointless geometry everything he does is pointless.

a.

 

Anonymous
08-05-2004, 12:19 AM
bruce director - the resident scientist wannabe teaches a brand of 'geometry' where he comes up with simple 3D diagrams using the Mathematica software and you are supposed to move, extrapolate, etc. curves around the place - looking for new physical principles. every now and then, the 'geometry ' changes (i.e. the way you build the coordinate system) and you move, extrapolate, etc. curves around the place again, under the new geometry, to look for some 'singularity' that will make you jump up and say 'eureka - new physical principle', or 'gestalt', or previously i can't intersect this with that but now i can, or something like that.

....and you are also supposed to be able to account for the impact of new physical principles (i.e. technology) on the economy, etc...because when you change the way Mathematica builds a formal coordinate system, this is supposed to represents the way the new principle impacts the 'geometry', and you go off on a new round of moving, extrapolating, etc. curves - looking for new intersections, etc...

fortunately, despite the on-going economic collapse which has been going on since bruce joined the cult, faster microprocessors, better computer graphics and improved mathematica versions has been helping him speed up the rate of scientific progress.

 

Anonymous
08-05-2004, 07:40 AM
That's all they are. A group of wannabees who couldn't make it in the real world so they're going to play "let's pretend".

 

xlcr4life
08-05-2004, 08:38 AM
Kheris wrote:

"The real way he got Kerry's attention is through the deployment of the LYM in Boston. That event has significantly altered the geometry of the situation for the better in regards to LaRouche's position within the Democratic party."

The words that were used in the past were "Non linear effect", "Phase shift" and "non linear transformation". This is what you tell people so they can man an around the clock LHL card table shrine. It goes like this when you call in for the afternoon or evening update:

"------- said this which caused ----- to happen. This occured after LHL wrote ----- which we are blanketing the country with. Lyn's influence and expertise is being used behind the scenes by ----which caused the country of ---- to adopt Lyn's policy which is in the ----- brief that we are selling"

I gotta be carefull this with stuff, some of you may have flashbacks.
If you really want to have a good laugh check out the LarouchePACoflies web site videos where you can see the yute annoy ordinary Bostonians and cause this phase shift that took place in the Fleet Canter. Look carefully and you can see the signs that some yute are holding which look like this:

_______________________
|
| LAROUCHEYouth
|_______________________|
|
|
|
|
The press conference has another funny moment when LHL says that a lot of people here in the room used to be in prison. The group has a new whopper for the yutes to tell. One college message board I found has yutes getting very confrontive and angry when someone mentions LHL's prison time. The yutes yell at the person:

"Where did you hear that? This is a slander against us. Where you there when he was in prison? How can you believe this?"

If I was a real cold hearted person I would just laugh away at this. I do laugh, but a small part of me knows that quite a few people will eventually get destroyed, while LHL and Helga are having a good time.

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
08-05-2004, 09:49 AM
You'll love this one! From May LYM cadre school - pearls of wisdom from LHL. Exactly who is this gutless wonder and why is he cosying up to Kerry now? Because he's nothing but a windbag of empty promises and rhetoric. Keep your eye on the bouncing ball folks!


"Well, I'm glad to see you all arrived here safely. And we hope you'll leave safely, after what I have to tell you.

You know, it's time to get serious. And we have some old fogies—you know what an old fogy is, somebody over 45, and under 62—who are rather pessimistic about life. You know, if they don't get instant rewards. It's sort of a case of a mass commitment to ejaculatio praecox: It's called a Baby Boomer. Instant gratification. And instant frustration.

But they tend to be pessimistic about our situation. And obviously, most of them are draft-dodgers, and therefore, don't know much—like Cheney, Cheney's a draft-dodger. He's 63 years old. He's just one year over the official Baby-Boomer age, and he dodged the draft. His wife got pregnant to help him dodge the draft. He was about to be wh-t-t-!, and she got pregnant. Miracle, she pulled a miracle.

But, the problem with this is, we are not in a situation that requires pessimism. The Baby Boomers tend to be pessimistic, if they don't get [whimpering] "instant gratification." And therefore, they want, say, [snarling] "Well, you weren't elected President yesterday! Therefore, I'm pessimistic! What're we doing all this for?"

We're now in a situation, you have a presumptive candidate for the Democratic nomination, who is currently a global disaster. And not only is he currently a global disaster, he is perceived as a global disaster, even by those who are protecting his candidacy. So, at this point, it probably is the case, but for what the Democratic Party generally did with respect to me, Cheney would be out, already, a year or so ago; possibly even, we might not have had an Iraq war. Certainly, if the Democratic Party had not excluded me, we would not have an Iraq War. It couldn't have happened. Because, once the debate of the issue—the controversy over the cover-up—had occurred, you couldn't go ahead with the war.

We had a bunch of gutless people, who, in the fall of 2002, capitulated. And if I had been in the picture in the Democratic Party, it wouldn't have happened. They wouldn't have dared. Because some of them were intelligent enough to recognize I was putting a penalty on them all. But, they weren't afraid of me, in the party, because they were fools. I did lay down the grounds for the penalty. But they said, "We can ignore his threat of a penalty, because he's not going to be there, to collect on the penalty"

 

Anonymous
08-05-2004, 09:57 AM
Why do LHL and his friends scare me?
Because of the shockwaves they leave in their wake - after they're all dead and long gone. Who knows what actions they've been able to justify to themselves in their quest for their own personal freedoms!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/08/05/international0940EDT0532.DTL


http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/08/05/BAGIC82PB817.DTL

 

Anonymous
08-05-2004, 04:59 PM
"Where did you hear that? This is a slander against us. Where you there when he was in prison? How can you believe this?"

just another yute trying to be Platonic the lhl way.

when i was in the org, i heard the org 'slander' itself more than other people 'slander' it.

they would tell that so-and-so said this about lhl, said that about lhl...before i even get the chance to hear so-and-so say anything or even know so-and-so existed....

come to think of it...i heard more 'slanders' about the org, from the org itself, than from those outside the org.

btw, bruce director e-mailed me recently after taking a look at this site...and asked me who i was working for....

bruce, in the 60s, i was working for those cuban frogmen, in the 70s, i was working for rockefellar, in the 80s, i was working for the queen of england, in the 90s, i was working for whoever was trying to destroy the world at that time, nowadays, like you know as well as i do, i'm working for that GE guy in India that keeps calling you to return the photocopy equipment you took from them but refused to pay for.

 

Kheris
08-05-2004, 06:55 PM
Was Bruce looking for leads for a new job?
joke!

 

Anonymous
08-05-2004, 08:33 PM
Poor Anon 192! ;)

I guess that means you are now *officially* a traitor to the cause and a *spy*.

I'd say that calls for a celebration! YAY!!!!!

Angelic messages come in all sorts of disguises these days.

Anon 198

 

borisbad
08-06-2004, 12:12 PM
Just in case Bruce is monitoring this, I would say that the fact that people on this board are working in any kind of real job of benefit to society and the functioning of its economic capacity to produce real wealth, not just paper, is more than 90 percent of the members in the NCLC could ever say.

It's amazing that this world has managed to get by the last 50 years in spite of LaRouche not being in the White House (God forbid), or any other position of power.

I do feel sorry for some good people in the org. that stayed behind that I knew in my day but unfortunately, they made their beds. All I can say is that I hope many more people find their way out. Even social security benefits require that somebody paid into them, and it's hard to live and get medical benefits, etc. on $33 a week.

If Bruce wants to know I'm a lawyer. I remember one time when me and another organizer were arrested in NJ and we had a good lawyer who wanted to fight the arrest on freedom of speech and press grounds. The town backed off, but when he submitted a bill to the organization, guess what, he never got paid. Surprise, surprise.

 

xlcr4life
08-06-2004, 01:21 PM
Borisbad wrote:

"Even social security benefits require that somebody paid into them"

Here is how the LHL 401K plan works. Each year 15% of your life is taken away from you and given to LHL and Helga. All of the members are told that there will be no social security or retirement funds available for them since the whole economic system will be collapsed. So the members go 24/7 knowing that LHL is always right on economic matters and they need no reason to squirrel away money.

Now guess what? LHL IS right. You see, if you check the tombstones in various Leesburg cemeteries, you will see a frightening fact of life. A hell of a lot of members that we knew from years past are either in the ground, or now in the express lanes. There was one point where it became very hard to plan the funerals since they come so fast.

Now I am not making light of a human beings death. I know many of those people and I wish they could have left and enjoyed life without being in a high stress induced Bizarro world.

The stress is so great that most of the dead enders in Leesburg hit a bottle more than they hit the oligarchy.

Now one more point for Bruce. Many of us who are escapees from the Bizarro world have become lawyers, very good lawyers in fact. Our advice keeps people out of jail and in compliance with the law.

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
08-07-2004, 11:11 PM
incidently, bruce 'runs' this subsection in the org called the "Consitutional Defense Fund" - CDF. His secretary is Barbara Boyd.

The CDF does the legal paper work in the org. Bruce told me once that the 'reason' the org does its own legal stuff is because other lawyers can't be trusted. Bruce left out the part where the org does its own legal stuff because the org is so well known for not paying up after taking services/products that its getting harder and harder to run the same old scams.

bruce is just a thief...he likes to think that he is saving the world..therefore the ends justify the means..but he is just a bum who never had the discipline to hold down a real job irregardless of what's happening in the world.

Bruce spends a lot of time at the office...but that's not because work...play with mathematica a bit here....give a simple 'science' class there....an occasional few hours a week at a table shrine on the sidewalk for appearances sake, etc....it's s a club house really..for those who have secured their positions in the org.

mike billington on the other hand, LHL did not deem fit to anoint to some uppity commitee - like bruce was. so billington has this thing called a sales quota on his head...bruce on the other hand, is deemed more useful playing scientist to the yutes, so no $$$ numbers for him to worry about.

as a result, bruce - and a few anointed other - is a rather easy going guy, no need to meet the numbers, unlike the others in the org.

 

Scott
08-10-2004, 08:32 AM
So I just wanted to send a quick message out to people who are in contact with me; as I had suspected my e-mail address was hacked into, and they (Larouchies, I presume) have changed the password. Please send me e-mails at Larouchefor2004@yahoo.com.

That's the new name for my geocities site--take an early peek and help out if you can--if you can write anything for content it would be very helpful...send stuff to Larouchefor2004@yahoo.com.

If you have gotten weird e-mails from me (which weren't from me, please disregard them and let me know!)

Scott

 

scott
08-10-2004, 08:33 AM
http://www.geocities.com/larouchefor2004/

 

borisbad
08-10-2004, 11:12 AM
Scott, just checked out your site, I guess it's still under construction, (hope that the dead links aren't from LaRouche hackers). It'll be interesting to see how it develops, I noticed the name of the site should come up pretty quick on Google searches, etc.

When the time comes, I'll try and get some stuff on site, especially the great humor we used to have in New Solidarity attacking entities like the FBI (Fearless Fuzzdick I think the cartoon character was called after Fearless Fosdick).
Good lucks

 

Anonymous
08-11-2004, 02:58 PM
I have been reading these posts for a long time now. I was in the cult for a while and got to know quite well some of the inner workings in the security sector. Most of the time I picked up cases of wine for the parties we threw with the money the members raised and went to jail for.

You see, just like any government, by calling something "Security" you can do anything. I only want to do one post and give other people who do research on this crazy group of social rejects an idea of some thing that has been bothering me for some time.

Most of us who were Jewish left in the early 80's. We got fed up with how we were pandering to outright scary anti semites living in backward rural areas of the South and in militia areas of Central US States. It became the hight of absurdity to listen to people critique the holocoust now giving us info on security matters.
I never could figure out how Steinberg could take this, but you should know that he is a half Jew who married a non Jew. Paul Goldstein, along with Herb Quinde always looked at where they could make a buck and leave the cult. But poor Goldstein got caught in a bad position with some one other than his wife one day. He went through some crazy S**t in a LHL attack psycho session. Next thing you know. two so called Jewish boys are cracking vile anti semitic jokes to Jewish members.

If that was not enough. We got money from one guy and printed the Protocals of the Elders of Zion " in an edition of Dope Inc. That still was not enough for these psychos. After Helga came to town she had a lot of meetings with out writers between shopping sprees. If you look at our writings we rewrote the history of Germany during WW2. We took the blame off the German citizens for Hitler and now blamed it on the British and the Jewish financiers! We praised German conductor Furtwangler, praised Nazi rocket researchers, revised death camp figures and came to the defense of every two bit Nazi prison guard who was under suspicion in the US for war crimes. No wonder a lot of the Jews I knew left.

The trick here was that we were working with a crazy bunch of people and were fundraising from their subscriber lists. We would get a list from the Liberty Lobby and other groups and cold call the list for money for the presidential campiagn money. There is a whole other part of this story in Germany and Europe that I was never privy to, as that was a very carefully culled list.

Now what does this have to do with today? Back in the Carter years we had American Hostages held in Iran. Before that Ledouche would travel to Iraq to give greetings to Saddam and the Baath party Socialists, when we were socialists. We got some money from Iranian exiles and published a book called "Hostage to Khomenhi". Look it up and see that the head writer was a guy named Bob Dreyfus. He and his wife Barbara did a lot of research with us in security. During the course of this we called up a lot of Arab Offices in NYC to get meetings and EIR contracts.

During our research we found an incredible amount of material on how the Nazis set up networks with various Arab countries and leaders. Since they both hated the Jews, they had a common ground. We found those same networks continuing to the 80's.

Dreyfuss left in the early 80's. He had enough of the attacks and insanity. You can google him and his wife and find a lot of his work in magazines like Rolling Stone, Mother Jones and the Nation. He really is a tireless writer. I am glad he found his calling and does a lot of good work. He even made it to the editorial board of "The Nation" magazine. I always remember his work in tracking down the Nazi offspring around the world in various countries.

Since getting my computer I would every now and then type in Larouche and see what came up. I saw all of this stuff on Synarchism and then was surprised to see my friend Fernando Quijano named as a terror suspect by Larouche in a Laoruche2004 press release. The first thing I thought was that Lyn is really of his rocker or he is really drinking an incredible amount of booze. My good friend Sandy Roberts who ran the legal office before he wised up and left would never have allowed such crap top be released. I hope Fernando finds some good lawyers. He is owed plenty for this incredible blunder.

Back to synarchism. It hit me that in all of my internet reading of Larouche writings, Arab and Muslim terrorism no longer exists. There is no longer any mention of the Muslim Brotherhood and the stuff we found out in the 80's.

One day I typed in "Larouche and anti Israeli Arabs" on google. what the hell! I find Lyn is meeting with all sorts of interesting people in the Mid East. His ELC women are touring Sudan and other places where women are dirt. Lyn is on the same podiums where David Duke and the creeps from the International Historical Commission have given talks about the Jews.

Since I knew that we really changed our research to be friendly with right wing kooks in the past, could the same thing be happening now?

I looked up the FEC lists of Larouche 2004 doners. I took out the names of people I knew and the names of people who worked for our buisnesses. Now I see that we have a lot of Arabic names giving money to larouche. Now there is no problem with Muslims giving money to Larouche or anyone else for that matter. I remeber the nice research we did on Ibn Sina and the history of Arab science. But this reminded me of what we did back when we were courting the right wing kooks. We called them patriots back then and yahoos to make them look nicer.

So I really wonder if there is some hanky panky going on here. Since all of the people who had some ties to being Jewish left, I do not think that there is anyone left to raise a question about ethics. When it comes to ethics, let me tell you that Goldstein and Steinberg and a few other guys and girls I worked with on security had very little ethics. Lyn knew how to play them off each other better then they will ever admit. Lyn knew that Goldstein would sell out for the right price, so he just PROMISED Goldstein more. Steinberg always wanted to be a big shot and Lyn knew how to cut him down to a size smaller than he presently is.

So it really is a mad, mad, mad, mad, mad Larouche world. I have other things to deal with now that I have left many years ago. But I hope that some of you who read this can pipe in with your memories of how we did things back then so that some people today can check out the hunch I have. Nothing give me the willies than thinking about Steinberg, Goldstein and Schlanger telling VW Jew jokes to us with a straight face. Schlanger at least married a nice Jewish girl, but she did get a nose job. You could make a movie of that and call it "Suzie and her sisters"

 

me
08-14-2004, 12:38 AM
WTF? after reading all of this, I still have no idea what LaRouche is for. You shouldn't have to read a tome (sp?) to understand a political philosiphy. (His writings have that quality of Dianetics, where ordinary terms are given new names and over-complicated and redundant definitions)
What makes "Western Culture" so damn superior?

Actually, I thought Larouche was long dead...old old is he? Any guesses?

 

Anonymous
08-14-2004, 01:42 AM
A curious omission from the yute movement's Campaigner files at www.larouchepub.com is the "Zionism is Not Judaism" Campaigner. With every other crackpot issue included from 1970 onwards, this omission is an interesting concession to those of us who charge the ICLC with antisemitism.

Score one point for the sane people.

a.

 

Kheris
08-15-2004, 03:55 PM
For Anon 199

What makes "Western Culture" so damn superior?

It has to be Classical Western Culture or it doesn't get superiority points, and its superior because LHL says it is. Nothing else is as important or significant in the flowering of human creativity. It is the pinnacle of human cultural achievement and all this other stuff is just drivel.

If you don't believe me, just ask any LYMer. They're the ones at the card table shrines trying to separate you from your money (and sanity).

 

Anonymous
08-15-2004, 10:37 PM
I was involved with LaRouche last year. I would like to post my story here.
I had been to a couple of antiwar rallies and was looking for something more meaningful to do than marching. I wanted to get more involved politically, but I still only had so much time to give to that. I'd never heard of LaRouche, but I came accross one of thier tables and gave them my number. This was in April or May 2003. I realized from talking to them on the phone that LaRouche had run every election for 30 years or so, and didn't sound very promising, but a combination of morbid curiosity and their persistence got me to my first meeting.
I had told them that I was a comedian, and they'd already told me I'd learn that wasn't important if I hung out with them enough.
I didn't agree. I just planned on seeing what the campaing was about, and even if it was something I wanted to do, I was only going to do it part time. If it had been a legit organization, working part time would never have been a problem for them.
If this was a legit organization, someone being a comedian would not be a problem for them, and certainly wouldn't be considered immoral, as any sane person knows this sort of thinking is ridiculous.
That's not even the worst part. I have bipolar disorder. Numerous members looked right at me countless times and told me this disorder just didn't exist, and even went so far as to tell me, when I freaked out and yelled at a bunch of them at Cadre School, that my meds were my problem. They won't acknowledge when you question them, or challenge their thinking, or get angry at them. They blame some outside force, like your parents, or the culture.
At Cadre School, I was deprived of sleep, isolated, and not allowed to do anything other than sit in classes the entire weekend. This after several months of them telling me to quit my life and leave the security I'd worked harder than any of them had ever worked to establish.
Before I met the LaRouche campaign, I had been homeless for a year, and in an apartment for barely six moths. I still lived off the government. They knew that too, but that didn't stop them from trying to collect donations from me, and from waging psychological warfare on me. For a while after they kicked me out, I still thought some of the people in the organization were good people. I don't care anymore. I don't care what they say. I don't care what they think of me. I don't even care how this group got to be a cult. It's evil and dangerous. Their axioms don't matter, it's their actions.
All of their claims, and reasons they give why they're not a cult are oversimplifications on thier part. You don't know how many times I heard when I was in their meetings "This is different from (name of other organization) this is a POLITICAL organization".
Or they could always shout down an opinion I had that they didn't like as "popular opinion". I was expected to learn what's popular here, and never think for myself again. That is all there is to being LaRouchian.
I can't stand to listen to their classes on the web. I never could read their literature, but that didn't stop them from working me at a table. It's not that I'm illiterate either. LaRouche writes boring ****, and tells people they're stupid for not understanding it. He references Plato, Kant, Strauss, Gauss, people you didn't read if you just went to high school, and expects you to follow The Children of Satan. I have above average reading skills. The Children of Satan is not intelligible if you don't have some knowledge of these people.
Then they want to tell you, Kant is bad, Plato is good, Strauss is bad Gauss is good...when I don't trust this group for a second.
They also talked of impeaching Cheney, which by the way is a dumb idea, but they never did, and they're never going to, just like all their other great ideas.
When you impeach someone, you go through a process, you collect votes. You don't just go around complaining about somone.
Anyway, I'll probably post more later.


By the way, "Tom" is antidummy@yahoo.com, who deleted all my posts on remain for antidummies.

 

Anonymous
08-16-2004, 12:09 AM
Thanks 66 for telling your story; don't feel bad, you weren't half as rooked as many of us who post here. This is a place of healing for those harmed by the LaRouche cult, so welcome!

P.S. Interesting that "Tom" hasn't posted since he was outed as a spammer.

a.

 

Anonymous
08-16-2004, 10:02 AM
Anon 66, The Children of Satan makes no sense even if you've read Plato, Kant, et al. I'm glad you're out of that cult. Welcome back to the real world.

 

Bella
08-16-2004, 10:14 AM
I posted some time ago, telling my story about almost marrying someone who was involved with LaRouche for more than 25 years. I was fortunate to see this before our relationship became permanent. It wasn't easy to leave and I have spent many months getting over this, especiallly the LaRouche part...but I am back to my old self again and still look for that post from Scott telling us that the story on cults is going to happen.

Interesting to see that yet another person thinks he knows "Axiom Tom." It was bazaar that I thought I knew him too....but I never really mentioned exactly why...except that I recognized his writing style. "Tom" mentioned that before his father had passed, he marched with Martin Luther King. Tom was very proud of this fact. I don't think there are many...especially causasians....that could say this. I believe he was the person I knew and he hasn't posted since I did. He was probably afraid that if he continued, I would eventually tell everyone who he really was/is...and he wasn't the type that went around boasting about his involvement with the movement. He knew all too well what people would say about him and it would probably have cost him his job.

Wishing all of you good fortune on your road to recovery.

 

xlcr4life
08-16-2004, 03:56 PM
"P.S. Interesting that "Tom" hasn't posted since he was outed as a spammer. "

When you begin to look up different areas that the LHL acolytes enter you notice a certain pattern. A question may be raised about someone who ran into a LHL card table shrine. The person usually notes that though the people and lit appears crazy, there is a bit of interesting material inside. The person then asks a question on an open forum about LHL. The first set of posts are usually from average people who ran into the group and determined that LHL is insane.

The next group of posters usually describe how they knew some one who became a Larouchie and went off the deep end. Then a "Tom" shows up and posts some mumbo jumbo from a LHL pres release and copy/posts some jiberish that "proves" LHL is the only answer to save the world.

Then some ordinary people respond that "Tom" is nuts and belongs in a cult. You never see "Tom" enter again and the thread goes onto something else.

Before the internet age, the main connection to LHL and you was via a person like me. I could take the interesting parts of our program like nuclear energy, maglev trains, anti drug work, economic development etc and make us appear rationale. I could also take our intell networks and inside info tid bits and make us appear to be players on the world scene. But, the minute you REALLY read our material and LHL writings you wondered what the hell is going here. The person I met seems like a nice educated guy or girl. What happened? As soon as most of us REALLY read our nonsense and/or met LHL privately, we high tailed it out asap.

Bella, no matter what "Tom" may have done in the past, he has invested 25 years in a fake, a phony, a fraud. Even though "Tom" may have real empotions about improving the human species, the long trail of broken and bankrupt people the cult has left behind is not in his conscience. In fact, he may feel angry that those people have "sold out" and left.

Very few people are willing to admit that they made a mistake and were misled. No one proudly declares that they were victims of the Nigerian internet bank fraud scam either.

As he approaches his 60's, most of his friends from the past are either gone or buried in Leesburg cemetaries. This is a mess you should be happy to be away from. A guy I knew from the NYC National Office named Steve P. became very depressed after going through this surreal nightmare, left Leesburg, went to CT. and shot himself to death.

The remaining dead enders in the org are crazier than ever. Each clings to whatever new LHL morning briefing revelation of his role in changing the universe, as another reason to "hang in there". There is no light at the end of this tunnel, just a pile of dirt on top of your casket after the chorus sings another Requiem highlight.

If you want to delve into a nightmare that many current members are living, try this. You marry him, get pregnant and "Tom" says that you need to terminate the child because of the "World historical situation" we are in. You refuse and have the child while being stigmtised by the cult. You are so poor that your kids get public assistance like many Leesburg kids do. After sacrificing and raising your offspring, memos are printed that denounce you if your kid decides to join some rational youth gathering that most normal kids do. The documents will usually have the name of convicted felon Will Wertz as author. If you think your kid will go to college and become something, think again. Unless you surrender your child to a LHL card table shrine, you are persona non grata.

Years ago, we who were in never had a chance to really ask questions because we did not have access to all of the info around. After reading the endless accounting by members and people who have dealt with this group, how can anyone rationalise their full support for a madman? How can anyone not even raise an eyebrow at this lunacy?

You can only do this if you are in a totally controlled Bizarro world. You can only do this if you WANT to believe. Con man know that their victims WANT to believe the scam they are preaching. LHL knows how to keep his people in the Bizarro world.

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
08-16-2004, 05:45 PM
In his latest rant, LHL's rant was entitled...

"THIS PLANET WILL NEVER FORGET ME "

A previous rant was titled...

"GOD HAS BLESSED ME"

As you can see, LHL is very important to himself.

 

Anonymous
08-16-2004, 08:17 PM
Was Steve P. a guy in New York from the early days who had a maimed arm, presumably from a birth defect? If so, that would be very sad because he was one of the good guys.

 

xlcr4life
08-17-2004, 04:00 AM
"Was Steve P. a guy in New York from the early days who had a maimed arm"

No. Steve P. worked in operations. Glasses, thin hair. His wife was British I believe. From what I heard they relocated to Leesburg with everyone else. The couple broke up, with Steve gettting a non LC girl. After all of this he became very introspective at what he did with his last 30 years of his life or so. Returned to CT where he was from and then shot himself in the head.

This was revealed by accident when some people were discussing the high level of drinking among the dead enders in Leesburg. I mentioned the effects of depression someone would have after living this nightmare for over a quarter century and not being in a postion to leave, change, have a family, save for retirement and see the world pass them by. A person said "OMG, that sounds like Steve who just blew his brains out".

Unless you were in the cult, it is hard to understand the 24/7 hysteria that you are out through. The levels of stress have aged many dead enders where they all look 20 years older then they are.

When you think about how most of these people were the cream of the college crop and full of energy when they joined, it is a staggering loss of dignity while LHL goes to sleep without a worry.

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
08-17-2004, 11:28 AM
LaRouchaholics Anonymous

Step 1: We admitted we were powerless against insanity, that are lives had become that of pitchmen.

etc.

 

Anonymous
08-17-2004, 11:29 AM
LaRouchaholics Anonymous

Step 1: We admitted we were powerless against insanity, that our lives had become that of pitchmen.

etc.

 

terese baker
08-18-2004, 09:19 AM
Our son is at home. Thanks to all of you who have opened his eyes. We could not have done this ourselves. He now sees the organization as criminal and dysfunctional. God bless you.

 

Anonymous
08-18-2004, 10:31 AM
Congratulations, Terese!

a.

 

Kheris
08-18-2004, 03:43 PM
Terese

I am curious as to whether it was any one thing or the totality of all that was revealed here that got your son's attention. And I am pleased to hear he has decided to stay away.

 

xlcr4life
08-18-2004, 04:03 PM
"Our son is at home. Thanks to all of you who have opened his eyes. We could not have done this ourselves. He now sees the organization as criminal and dysfunctional. God bless you."

Your son came to his senses a lot faster than many of us here. After witnessing the physical, mental and financial brutality of this cult against its members, one person not being abused is a real heart warmer for me. At 18, he has a life time of things to look forward to.

Would your son be able to post some of his experiences and memories of the people he dealt with? It may be painful, but it would serve a great purpose. This site is quoted and linked by a lot of other college age students and people who ask questions about the cult. When I was in, there was no place to research and get opinions of what and whom we were dealing with.

Some of us may know the people who were rewriting history for him.

xlcr4life

 

borisbad
08-23-2004, 08:49 AM
Congratulations to the Bakers. I'm glad he learned faster than it took alot of us others on this site, and I agree with xlcr that it would be good for others if he could recount what got him to see the light. I hope that the LC doesn't try and keep after him as they are very persistent. I remember even after I quit they still tried to hit me up for money because I left announcing some political disagreements but didn't outright condemn the group as probably I should have. I even went to a conference a short time after leaving, although I managed to miss most of the BS sessions anyway, mostly going because it was a cheap way to spend a week at a decent hotel with a pool.

 

Anonymous
08-23-2004, 07:37 PM
I hear Primack died.

 

xlcr4life
08-24-2004, 02:54 PM
Anon 66 "I hear Primack died. "

Unfortunately, that is true. Mr. Primack passed away last year of heart failure. He was one of the most honorable of the defendents in the LHL loan and CC scams by acknowledging the guilt of the group and its leadership. He spent a few months in prison and according to many people felt very sad over what transpired to many people. For this he was hounded and jettisoned by the group which has no need for people to tell the truth, rather than rewrite it for gullible yutes.

Mr. Primack started a pretty successfull antique business in Leesburg and was well liked by his fellow merchants. There is a reported level of generosity of Mr. Primack that dwarfs any so called support the cult has for its own members. People describe him as a lovable curmudgeon. I think he ran for mayor once of Leesburg to draw attention to Leesburg development.

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
08-28-2004, 07:46 AM
Hey Scott,

What's happening with your website? The links are still down.

 

Kheris
08-29-2004, 11:21 AM
I went roaming around the FEC trying to get the skinny on the new PAC formed by LHL to support Kerry and get Bush. Well wouldn't you know -- it's the old FDR PAC resurrected as the Larouche PAC and either Barbara Boyd or Terry Hugunin is the Treasurer. Each has signed at least one of the reporting forms. As of now, the only money expended has been on printing the so-called Platform. So much for LHL's huge effort to get Bush out and Kerry elected. And the last info I saw suggests Bush is leading as of right now. LHL better get it in gear if he is going to save civilization as we know it.

Wait, what am I thinking?! The YOOTS will save our sorry Boomer hides! Call Harley and have him send out the kiddie corps.

can't help the sarcasm folks

 

Anonymous
08-30-2004, 09:55 AM
if kerry wins, lhl will say he did it.

the same trick was played when clinton beat bush sr.

if kerry loses, lhl will say it's because no one listened to him.

it's a big circle, lhl will always end up where he started from.

the kiddie corps a.k.a. lhl youth movement a.k.a. light cavalry a.k.a. yoots a.k.a. fresh meat for the boomers a.k.a. people who are being taken for the circular ride of their lives has been defeated.

they are no mass yoot protests...just a handful of losers. nothing was effected by the yoots, no change, no victories, nothing.

 

Anonymous
08-31-2004, 10:02 PM
"if kerry wins, lhl will say he did it.

the same trick was played when clinton beat bush sr."

In one of LHL's books he claims to have had something to do with Star Wars. And there's a picture of him with Reagan. Does anyone know the story behind that one?

Mr. and Mrs. Baker, I had read some of the old posts, and it was partly concern for your son that had made me decide to post here. I had written about LaRouche on my own web site for a while, and had taken it down pretty recently. I'm trying to move toward more posetive things for myself.

When I was in the group, I was interested in the music and drama, but the yutes wanted to discourage me from that because they saw their music, drama, and art classes only as a means of helping them to organize at tables. No one in the movement is allowed to specialize in anything or have any interest in anything other than organizing at a table. If I couldn't explain why I hadn't read something, and how what I did would help me with my "organizing", it was considered useless.
Every time someone recommended you read something, they would tell you "but you can't just read it, you have to reaaaly work through it", never explaining what the hell they mean by that. All they're doing is turning reading into some mind numbing constipating process it doesn't need to be.
And if you have some background knowledge in something and don't need for them to explain it to you, they get their feelings hurt. That's really what's going on underneath all the condescending jabber, where they explain to you how your college degree or high school diploma, or whatever it is you did earn, is "useless", and you need for them to tell you what really happened at the signing of the Declaration of Independence. They're constantly saying "You need to look at history as a whole," then they cram a history class into thirty minutes and say, we don't have time to discuss anywhere near what you need to learn. There are several books here you should all read. You must read at least this one. On your own time, which you don't have. Oh, and by the way, this historical situation, or mathematical situation, or philisophical situation, or musical theory ties in with why Lyndon LaRouche is the only man fit to lead this country. I think it's obvious by what I've said here. Then everyone pats the person on the back for having given a great class even if they didn't explain anything really. If during the class, you ask a perfectly logical question, they often don't know how to answer it.

I'm done. I didn't think I was going to vent like that, but I did. So there.


66.42.117.68

 

borisbad
09-01-2004, 07:19 AM
The picture with Reagan, which LaRouche parlayed into acting as if he were Reagan's adviser occurred during the 1980 New Hampshire primary campaign where LaRouche managed to get invited as a candidate. I believe it was an NRA event. LaRouche got to briefly chat with Reagan at that event, and since that time he's portrayed it as a seminal event where he convinced Reagan to go with the SDI "star wars" program.

I remember the old days when we would come in from the field at about 8:30 or 9:00 p.m. and then attend one of the classes by Phil Rubenstein or Dennis Speed or perhaps take a bel canto singing lesson with Maestro Briano who I think is still with the organization in Italy or somewhere. There were some times when we actually engaged in real intellectual activities such as staging a couple of Shakespeare's plays or doing poetry recitals and learning by memory to recite his sonnets. However, most of the time it was the daily grind and if you were allowed intellectual activities it was usually only those approved by the organization.

However, it sounds like these activities are even more controlled than they were in the 80s from what you describe. I remember going to Shakespeare plays in NYC, or concerts at Lincoln Center.

Having made sure I kept an outside social life, I was able to keep some form of sanity where life wasn't totally controlled by the organization. Others probably haven't been as lucky. And others, like Jeremy Duggan, may have been completely subjected to LaRouchian "ego-stripping", especially if he was questioning the organization's attitude towards Jews.

 

Anonymous
09-01-2004, 03:13 PM
Maestro Brianno was at the West Coast Cadre School I attended, and gave some voice lessons at the L.A. office after the Cadre School. They have a choral program, and Shakespeare, but no one goes outside the office for anything cultural. When I first started going to meetings, they said something about doing poetry, and I talked about coffee houses that have open mic poetry readings, and their reaction was this uncomfortable silence I didn't understand their reasoning for at the time. People are expected to "learn" that the "degenerative" art that they liked prior to joining the group is repulsive to them. The fact that I didn't, is part of the reason I never fit in there.
Something happened today with me in relation to LHL cult that really sucked. The LA members who were there when I was know who I am from the story I posted. They might act like they don't to aviod embarassment on their part.
I do need to say that they definitely should get the hell off my college campus. I was on the way from a class to the bookstore to see if the line wasn't too long. I knew they would show up there eventually, but a part of me was really hoping they would just decide not to. First I saw a new pamphlet laying on the ground. I wasn't happy, but it's just a pamphlet so far. Then I saw their table. My first instinct, my better judgement actually was to keep walking and go on with what I was doing. Then I got around the corner of the bookstore, the line was too long (just to get in to the store), and I turned around and went back to talk to them.

I just went up to the first two people who were in a conversation and said, "If you talk to these people, if you go to enough meetings, if you listen to them enough, they will eventually ask you to drop out of school, and your life."

They just nodded at me. They turned out to be two members who were standing there talking to each other. One of them was new around the time I left. He said I looked familiar, and I said I was in the group last year. I wasn't in the mood for pleasantries.
Then the other one asked me if I was happier, has my mind developed or something. I said I was happier, and I started getting angry. One of them said usually when people have freakouts like this, and they leave the group, it's about sex--I cut him off and said "I am not defending sex drugs and rock and roll. I am defending people having stability in their lives. I was asked to leave my apartmet.." Their was clearly no use talking about this to these people, but I didn't know how to end it. I said something about how for 30 years Lyndon LaRouche has been pretending to run for President and he's just using people. I figured if I was drawing a crowd, I should bring LaRouche's name into it.
This guy with a foregn accent came over to me and said 'What about the collapse of the Soviet Union?' I said, 'What does that have to do with Lyndon LaRouche?" And of course, he said LaRouche predicted it. That's around the time I gave up just for my own sanity.
There was a memeber at that table who was there the whole time I was in the movement who didn't say anything when I was there talking, but when I was leaving I heard someone say "Take care". I think it was probably him.
I'd just really like to bury the whole experience with the movement and all the effects it's had on me. I wish I had never met them. I wish I could stop them from recruiting new people. I wish I could make them see that they're wrong. It's the way they treat others that's wrong. Period. Has nothing to do with the literature.
But this bull**** about certain music and art being satanic happens to be ridiculous. Wrong. You're wrong.
And people don't hate you because you stand up against the liberal media. You're not anti-liberal. You're extremist conservative. And racist. Extremist conservative racist DEMOCRAT. What the **** is that?

If I say, "No I don't know anything about this LaRouche, tell me about him."
And the first thing that comes out of your mouth is, "People think he's AntiSemitic, but he's not."
You're probably AntiSemitic.
That's pretty much the way they describe him. "People say we're a cult, but we're not." 90% of their campaigning is damage control. Uh...It's a little suspicious.

I don't think I have the energy to talk to them again this semester. Geez, that about did me in. I learned something from that.

BTW, my voice teacher is trained in bel conta, something else LaRouche DOESN'T OWN.


anon 66.42.117.68

 

Anonymous
09-01-2004, 03:39 PM
Another great thing about not being in the cult is that I can go see my doctor about my chronic medical condition and no one harasses me about it. Nobody questions whether it is real. Nobody interferes with my management of my health. I don't have complete strangers giving me medical advice about something I know more about than they do. Giving me medical advice based on something a politician said, because they think he is also a scientist. They think he has some knowledge of psychiatry and psychology that a real doctor who went to med school doesn't have.

I'm sorry but I can't stress enough what ****ing bull**** it is that all those kids told me bipolar illness isn't real. And that I felt like I had to tell them about my extensive experiences with it, and they still had to give me advice about it because they are so wise and I am so ignorant, so dumb. Please tell me about me. I am so sorry that I existed before this Youth Movement.

This is a group that encourages psychiatric disorders, that's why they thought it would be a good idea to go off my meds.

Then this guy today has the nerve to tell me this is about sex. This organization had me convinced to move to be near the campaign, but I wasn't going to 1)give up comedy. 2}go off my meds 3)stop being myself entirely

They like to oversimplify things so people who have complaints against LHL look like simpletons who just don't get what's going on.

66.42.117.68

 

Anonymous (
09-01-2004, 04:32 PM
There is also something very wrong with a massive political movement that is afraid of modern art paintings and entire genres of music because they believe someone named Satan actually communicates through these media.


66.42.117.68

 

Anonymous
09-02-2004, 05:41 PM
LHL is putting out new 'economic charts'.

One freebie is at

It seems to show aluminium production going up to from 1955 to 2000, only after 2000 it prod. drops.

If the economy has been collapsing for the past 30-40 years, how come aluminium prod. kept rising from 1955 to 2000...or should we ignore that and just look at the drop from 2000 onwards....????

anyway, LHL further rants that...

"Therefore, EIR and I have some important tasks to perform here and now.

That much said as introduction to the business at hand, I now present the following summary of the nature of the policy, of the situation at hand, and the manner in which that mission, of graphically animated representation of physical-economic reporting, is to be carried out. This will be evident not only in coming editions of the Executive Intelligence Review, but a variety of suitable other locations.

Henceforth, the core of EIR's reporting on the U.S. economy, will be a graphic portrayal of the way in which the physical health of that economy is measurable as changes in comparative physical, as distinct from monetary-financial values. This will include such treatment of physical changes, as these are to be measured county by county, for the entirety of the U.S.A., over a base-line period for comparisons, from approximately 1926 to the present. These measurements will not be made as mere comparisons; they will be measured, where appropriate, by aid of animations, as ongoing processes. The object is to get away from the inherently misleading accounting practice of comparing static cross-sections. The object is to convey Therefore, EIR and I have some important tasks to perform here and now.

That much said as introduction to the business at hand, I now present the following summary of the nature of the policy, of the situation at hand, and the manner in which that mission, of graphically animated representation of physical-economic reporting, is to be carried out. This will be evident not only in coming editions of the Executive Intelligence Review, but a variety of suitable other locations.

Henceforth, the core of EIR's reporting on the U.S. economy, will be a graphic portrayal of the way in which the physical health of that economy is measurable as changes in comparative physical, as distinct from monetary-financial values. This will include such treatment of physical changes, as these are to be measured county by county, for the entirety of the U.S.A., over a base-line period for comparisons, from approximately 1926 to the present. These measurements will not be made as mere comparisons; they will be measured, where appropriate, by aid of animations, as ongoing processes. The object is to get away from the inherently misleading accounting practice of comparing static cross-sections. The object is to convey a meaningful sense of economic processes as characteristically non-linear, long-wave, physical processes per se.

In short, he's just going to do cartoons of numbers Richard Freeman dredged up from the Dept. of Statistics. So, the essence of the LaRouche -Riemann - Gauss method of economics is - animated gifs.

 

xlcr4life
09-02-2004, 09:17 PM
Anon 192 wrote:

"The object is to get away from the inherently misleading accounting practice of comparing static cross-sections. The object is to convey Therefore, EIR and I have some important tasks to perform here and now."

I swear this sends me back to the National Office in NYC back in the 80's. Thats when we started doing a lot of creative things like kiting checks, skipping out on vendors and calling loans "income". LHL and finance would send out memos to make the loans vanish by telling the regions that their job is to turn the loan into a gift. Of course if a top fundraiser like Bob G. from Chicago would call to tell us that we are screwing his contacts, we told him "tough, we can't pay, you take care of it".

That is the Larouche-Riemann method of accounting and high finance. After a tough day yelling at students at their part time day job teaching, the one raw material guaranteed to increase each year in consumption at Leesburg member's houses is empty wine bottles. If you were to graph the increase boozing because of depression and regrets over devoting your life to a madman, the graph would leap off of the scale. That curve could be called the "Larouche-Lowry index"

For Anon 66. The cult must always denounce any one who left as having some problem of degeneracy or other babble that LHL will mention in a briefing. There is no way that you can allow members to see former members doing well, going to school, raising families, making money, writing books, addressing think tanks and actually changing the world. All totalitarian groups must do this for survival.

Concentrate on your studies and enjoy the fact that you figured out the lunacy in a few months. With those analytical skills, nothing can be too hard for you. Write an anonymous letter to the student paper. Letters like that make their way around the world via the web. Eventually the cult writes back and can not help but write some bizarre lunacy as seen on these pages.

I can prophesize the future real easy for the two yutes you met:

"Kerry won because of LHL, now get back to a LHL card table shrine" or,

"Kerry lost because he refused to take LHL's wordly advice. Now get back to a LHL card table shrine".

xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
09-04-2004, 01:09 AM
I devoted my crucial college-age years to LaRouche and left relatively young, although much damage had been done, and it has taken me many years to right myself. But one aspect of the damage done me was that I shied away from politics these many years, which was an area that I loved growing up. The LC "taught me" how full of **** everyone was from left to right and/or how agent-rife every organization was so that I couldn't trust any group. I became aware of this just this past weekend when I joined the march against the RNC at Madison Square Garden: it was very refreshing to participate, but at the same time saddening in that many years had passed since I could allow myself the liberty to participate in a relatively normal way in the political process. There were many who marched whose ideas I disagreed with, but I could enjoy joining with DIFFERENT people in a common cause. In the LC one must be the VERY SAME on ALL FRONTS. How peculiar. If someone questions the characterization of the LC as a cult, let him ask why a member would be ostracized if he read Gertrude Stein or listened to Charlie Parker in an appreciative manner? I recall that in my day if one listened to Brahms too much one was suspect. Can you believe it? Wow, what was I thinking to get wrapped up in this lunatic cabal ...

a.

 

Anonymous
09-07-2004, 12:05 AM
another gem from xlcr4life...taken from the larouchewatch news group

March 12, 2009, at 03:22 AM

Go to:
http://larouchepac.org/pages/z_other_files/lym_photo_leipzigdemo/photo_leipzig08.htm

If that does not work, then go to the Larouche Pac site and you will
find the picture section.

Back in the 80's we had to create more sworn enemies of LHL, so we
named the Knights of Malta as part of the conspiracy. Besides being
a vacation spot, the Isle of Capri served as the secret HQ for LHL
assasination teams. Thus, Isle of Capri Pants. I can tell you from
working security that Helga has more body hair than most male dead
enders have scalp hair.

I can top Brunhilde in a thong easy. Ask paranoid legal Barbara Boyd
about the Bel Canto singing sections where Kathy W. and Helga took
their tops and bras off to expand their chest muscles in a singing
lesson at LHL's compound. Kathy's expertise was in singing and Asian
intell. She did have a nice voice. Her Asian Intell qualifications
were working in Japan as a cocktail waitress while living in Toyko.

As far as Duggan. That seems to be the domain of her legal and
investigative team according to various European news articles. The
big story is how the cult tried to hide this from the US members for
a long time. Another German member bit the dust of a heart attack
named Dieter. Usual MO, high stress and an endless mobilization to
save the world for LHL and Helga to rule all of us peons.

I suspect that the members who used to prowl the internet have been
told to stop. It is the same story when LHL used to do general
interviews. LHL had a melt down doing the "Morton Downey show in the
80's and was reduced to a jabbering fool on live TV. When they do
not have a controled situation, they fold like a cheap card table at
a LHL card table shrine. SO those of us who knew the real story kept
LHL off interviews and told the troops that LHL was being
blackballed by the ADL.

I wish Barbara Boyd would return here. She can always redeem herself
by finally admitting what a farce this thing was and how much damage
was done to members and supporters. Zeke isn't getting any younger
and Social Security aint gonna cut it in high priced Northern
Virgina for them. She also knows that the group has recruited some
unsavory yutes who are going to go haywire soon. We had to pay out
for damages when we bussed in some wild yutes from PA several years
ago. With the FEC showing that the campaign is a few million in the
hole, damage control money will be hard to come by.

There is always time for redemption Barbara. I thought I was too
old to get my legal degree when I left. Both my conscience and my
debts are clear.

xlcr4life

about kathy...mike billington has a very low opinion of kathy...likes to talk behind her back that her singing is no good. he doesn't think too highly of her articles or the slugs she puts in the am bfg either. but i suspect it rather more out of envy than anything else of substance...kathy did manage to pull off somethings for her master and mistress, got a book out for the org in japan, even got to know people on the campaign staff of a certain disgraced South Korean President who was recently impeached.

billington - on the other hand, can't compete with her on the deliverables...so he does what he canto stay in the limelight...the small things.

members talking behind each other's backs about each other is nothing new in the lhl movement. bruce director called carol white "ditzy" once - though i doubt if he has the guts to admit that helga is just as "ditzy" as carol...

 

Anonymous
09-07-2004, 12:28 AM
another post from the larouchewatch group

Actually, I am surprised they haven't seized on the German
austerity issue as confirmation he is right."

Let me explain how this stuff works. Go to the Larouche web site and
find the link to Larouchepac and the German austerity demos. There
you will see Helga in Isle of Capri pants talking to the troops
before she is whisked away to a fasion boutique in Berlin.

The cult basically finds what ever is a topic of discussion that
they can ride the coat tails of. We did this with Reagan, Star Wars,
Nuclear energy, anti drugs, high interst rates, South American debt,
video games, Satanism, bankrupt cities. We basically show up as
johnny come lately's and pound our chests that NO one has a solution
except LHL. Only LHL has the final solution to every problem. Now of
course we were full of crap when it came to real solutions. We
usually copied some stuff that seems nice like a MAGLEV train for
example. Before you know it we propose MAGLEVS every where
regardless of traffic densities, ridership or costs. The idea is
that we will get a few people out of the mix, soak them for as much
as we can, get a few to join and then move on to the next big thing
like colonizing Mars.

Eventually all of the contacts we make are put on index cards and
our boiler room fundraisers call them day and night to give money
and subscribe to the publications that we can never send on time.

In Germany it is no different as we we pass out a bunch of flyers,
sing some songs and march like we own the place. We did the same
thing with the Anti War marches in various cities and picked up some
yutes there as well. Now let me tell you the big secret to making a
good photo shoot about our leadership.

Back when I was in the National Office in NYC, we would make a bunch
of big banners and get the whole office to come down and meet at 7th
ave. around noon. Since this was lunch hour in NYC, the sidewalks
would be jammed with office workers on their way to lunch.

Our people would set up the banners and start marching on the side
walk with bullhorns a blazing on how this would be their last lunch
and they need to give all of their money to the Larouche campaign.
Of course, only our members did that back then. Stewart and Phil,
the photographers would be ahead on the roof of a car taking
pictures with a telephoto lens. The people in front would slow down
and create a jam of people who would be raising their fists at us to
get the hell out of the way.After the pictures were developed we
would run them on the front page of New Solidarity or the New
Federalist showing the world how the LHL campaign mobilized
thousands of New Yorkers to march for LHL's plan to --.

Since we set up shop in Leesburg we can no longer pull this off. So
now we wait until we have a conference in DC and get a few hundred
people to march for cameras. So expect a few "Mass Demonstrations
for LHL to appear after next weekends conference.

Look at the Boston Dem convention where LHL's ass was booted out of
the hotels nearby and the yutes were now singing for spare change on
the streets. LHL then proclaims that he will provide the margin of
victory for Kerry and throw his support to him. All this is going on
while the Dems keep disavowing LHL and completely ignoring him. The
yutes think that they are going to be the margin of victory. Since
the world of LHL is like 1984 and the Bizaro world combined. The
yutes have no idea that 527's exist and that Soros and others has
pumped millions onto defeating Bush. If Kerry wins, the yutes will
be told it was because of them, now get your ass to a card table
shrine. If Bush wins, it will because "The Elites" Kerry and the DNC
did not listen to and take LHL's leadership, now get your ass to a
card table shrine.

The thirty year history of this long running joke can be filmed over
one year nad run as an endless loop, and the yutes will never know
the difference. The same script is used in Germany and the US.

xlcr4life

the one about the maglev is very improtant for the yoots to take note of....lhl is claiming everyone else's work as his own...even the "world economic collapse" trick is nothing new...being used since the turn of the 20th century by various marxist groups.

about lhl's infrastructure "plan"...basically, he gets John Sigerson to do the donkey job...Sigerson would look at a map, and just connect the dots, between one town to another....with a line....so that line could be a maglev, a pipeline, a canal, a trip to mars, etc. depending on what's convenient for that day...and that just about sums up the "economic reconstruction plans" of Lyndon LaRouche....i.e. connect the dots.

 

Kheris
09-13-2004, 06:09 PM
Well the LYM must really be in the poorhouse. First they schedule a drama workshop for the Labor Day conference at 11 PM ET, then don't broadcast it at all, let alone live. Next, they post a link (http://www.wlym.com/pages/conferences.html) to a .avi (video) file for download only. Meaning you save it to your drive. This thing is 569 MB in size, so it's a long download on dialup.

They ought to make a DVD out of it and sell it to raise money.

 

Anonymous
09-14-2004, 08:44 AM
Those Schiller Institute DVDs make great paint scrapers.

a.

And nothing mulches like _New Federalist_. A whole line of LaRouche products awaits development ... the yoots rented out like the Herlihy Boy, for instance ...

 

Anonymous
09-14-2004, 11:01 PM
another gem from the larouchewatch news group.

--- In larouchewatch@yahoogroups.com, "chator56"
wrote:

"..Whether or not Kerry wins the election, it won't make a bit of
difference to LaRouche's place in American politics. If I were to
guess, i would say he's simply making a clever tactical gesture to
keep his supporters busy."

Good analysis Chator.

LHL knows how to hitch a ride on whatever seems to be moving and can
fit in the Bizarro world. He has to explain to a bunch of yutes that
the lunacy that occupied their lives and took them away from school
has accomplished something.

LHL Rieman formula:
Keep LHL yutes busy = less back talk + more booze runs

The double talk will basically involve praising Kerry, but always
noting some "pathological historical flaw" that will be referenced
to some literary work of Shakespaeare or some German poet. Of
course, LHL does not have that "Fatal Flaw", so LHL can ride to
rescue Kerry. Of course, the yutes and dead enders who live in the
Bizarro world have no idea that a lot of people support Kerry and
hate Bush. The phone teams will tell supporters that giving money to
Kerry means less than giving money to Larouche. "Since Larouche will
really tell the truth!" I know exactly what they will tell people
at 11PM when they phone them "Larouche will tell the US citizens
what Kerry is too scared to say. LHL is too hot for the DNC. Our
people are meeting with Kerry people behind the scenes".They might
even promise people that LHL will buy a national half hour TV ad or
some type of media purchase.

Hell , we raised enough money by promising to buy TV time that LHL
could have bought a network.

"So if you REALLY want to see Bush and Cheney defeated, give money
to Larouche!" We did the same thing in every election and told the
troops that LHL has some "Inside connection" to whoever is in the
White House.

The truth is that through the internet one can read about conspiracy
stuff all day long and see stuff as crazy or crazier than
LHL. "Trojan Jew" security chief Jeff Steinberg will hoodwink some
people by passing himself off as an "Anti Terror" expert. Neo con
stuff is printed in the Wall Street Journal so the cult will
proclaim that LHL intell is being used secretly. In some places you
can read LHL lunacy scattered among different web sites like "Jeff
Rense.com interspersed with crop circles and UFO's.

The yutes will be charged up for another cycle and happily sing for
spare change on street corners.

"Kerry won because of LHL, now get your ass back to the card table
shrine."

"Kerry lost because he and the Elites did not listen to LHL, now get
back to the card table shrine."

I was on that tread mill for years, so I could give the briefings
probably better than the yutes can.

IF Bush wins, than you have a ready made enemy for another 4 years.
One early LHL founding member told me that in meeting LHL before he
resigned he had a discussion with LHL. During the discussion LHL
told some of the regional National Committee members that "We have
some input into the Bush people" The person asked LHL why he said
that. LHL's responce was that the LYM was becoming too left wing and
that was a way to balance everything out with the members. Of course
the founding member realised that LHL was truly insane following an
all night meeting with a boozing LHL and left shorly after. That
usually is the way it works with most members who leave. They
finally meet a loose lipped LHL and realise that they are working
for a madman.

Never under estimate a grifter or a LHL in telling you stories. The
difference is that LHL actually believes what he says most of the
time.

xlcr4life

 

borisbad
09-20-2004, 02:15 PM
I was perusing the LaRouche Watch site and surprised to see Barbara Boyd in person so to speak. It was a laugh to hear her suggestion that the critics come out and spend time at an organizing table to see how much "fun" people were having. I remember doing precisely that for almost twenty years and fail to see the fun. Perhaps some interventions were interesting when you weren't under the pressure to meet the money quota set by Phil or Dennis as that was like guerrilla theater. However, I wonder how much fun the people have who can't even pay medical bills and have nothing aside for retirement. Or how much fun the women had who had to have abortions at LaRouche's insistence. Or how much fun people who dared criticize LaRouche over even the most trivial point had in being berated as vile evil children of Satan, agents of the ADL, etc. Of course, for sadists and masochists you could have enormous fun in the LaRouche theater of the demented.

 

Kheris
09-20-2004, 08:50 PM
If you haven't been over to the LYM site (http://www.wlym.com/pages/conferences.html) to listen to the audio clip from the drama workshops that Beltran did for the Labor Day 2004 conference, I recommend the first 30 minutes. It provides an insight into where Lyn and Helga are taking the LYM. I wrote a short commentary (http://kheris.net/msgboard.mv?parm_func=showmsg%2Bparm_msgnum=100466 8) that is posted at my message board.

 

Kheris
09-27-2004, 05:07 PM
I was cruising and looking for something else, but wound up with this. (http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13659) It is at FrontPageMag.com, which is run by David Horowitz. I don't know what to make of Horowitz, and I don't know if the article really reflects reality, or just Horowitz' view of it. According to this article there may be a convergence of right and left occurring, and he suggests that one of LHL's latest pets is also a darling of conservative circles. Any reactions?

 

borisbad
09-28-2004, 05:05 PM
I know that Dave Horowitz was part of the new left in the 60s who did a lot of stuff critiquing college academia, and later he moved into the neocon circles. I think that this is the standard neo-con take of the isolationist Pat Buchanan type old guard conservatives who are not enamored of Bush, and the world empire types around Cheney, Wolfkowitz, Rumsfeld, etc. I remember that ex-member Bob Dreyfuss wrote quite a bit about the Col.Kwiatorksi, or however her name is spelled in some of his blogs, and he gives credence to her take of the inner Pentagon cabal that centered around people like Douglas (?) Freith, who had the section involving the Pentagon official who was sending docs to Israel through AIPAC. Obviously to LaRouche this is part of the conspiracy showing that Israel controls US policy through the neocons (and the evil synarchists).

Personally I don't much trust the neo-cons myself and I wouldn't vouch for their reliability, but the article seemed to somewhat accurately reflect LaRouche's ideas being trumpeted by some of the old guard conservative types.

 

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