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FACTNET.ORG FORUM: LaRouche Part II - Page2

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Anonymous
10-01-2004, 01:48 AM
"somewhat accurately reflect LaRouche's ideas being trumpeted by some of the old guard conservative types."
i'm sorry, but i respectfully disagree.
larouche does not have any ideas....he gets jeff steinberg, et. al. to scan around for the latest trends, then he picks it up, and claims it as his own.
larouche pulled the same clever trick with the SDI, with the "landbridge", and the "new" bretton woods is not that new either.
if larouche is first in anything, it is because eir rushed to print it irregardless of whether it is valid or not - if the guesswork turns out right, then "world leaders" are actually in back room talks with him, shaping world history, etc....if the guesswork turns out wrong, then it is quietly swept under the carpet, after all, lyn is always right....or so we are told.

 

Anonymous
10-02-2004, 06:47 PM
What kind of a person has to be always "right" about everything?
What kind of person has to mimic the person who always has to be "right" about everything?
So grateful to be removed from all that childishness ...
a.

 

Anonymous
10-02-2004, 06:53 PM
The last line is the kicker ...
"Had I not been excluded from the campaign debates, the issues which I was addressing during the period prior to the July Convention would have already been aired to a broader population over the preceding six months.
"The importance of that lies not in the substantial primary vote I would have accumulated."
9/11/04 rant
How delusional can one possibly be?
a.

 

xlcr4life
10-03-2004, 07:34 AM
Anon 66.65 asks:
"How delusional can one possibly be? "
The answer is clearly "very delusional"
If you were privy to this madhouse than you know how it works. Bush blew the first debate and the undecided voters have shifted to Kerry for the time being. In any LHL office you will find someone reading a slug from the briefing quoting LHL that his leadership has caused a phase change in the electorate. The yutes, being in the insular 24/7 Bizarro world will have no reference to judge that briefing. Since the Bizarro world is one of non stop LHL worship as being infallible, then it makes sense that the world has shifted because of LHL. Most of us know this because we were in that asylum ourselves.
Kheris raises some questions about the right and the left. Anon 192 brings up Jeff Steinberg .
Let me explain some things. Forget any idea of their being a left or right wing side of LHL and the Bizarro world. It is always the LHL wing that counts. The cult has recruited and danced with both spectrums and settles where it thinks it will have some friends and influence. The Bizarro world has praised various murderous dictators and overlooked any atrocities commited by a regime that could perhaps buy an EIR report or answer their phone calls. Just look at the history of the LHL gang in loving the Sudan. It is hilarious to see Muriel Mirak go to places where woman are property and then announce some new development map as proof that the regime is in the forefront of human progress. We used to print all sorts of trash in EIR praising Marcos, Noriega, Juan Peron.
Now where does Steinberg fit in? Steinberg is a half Jew on his father's side. He married a shixa and was one of the torch bearers as head of security with Paul Goldstein to retell a few horrible anti semitic jokes to the Jewish members in the early 80's. Steinberg also was always meeting with various militia and klan types in the late 70's and 80's when we were supposedly right wing. Read the Dennis King books and you can get a glimpse of how ludicrous this whole mess was. Members like Mike Billington were given 5 bucks a day to fundraise at an airport card table shrine, while Steinberg and co were spending thousands with con men and klansmen.
Now when ever the question comes up about the cults anti semitism, Steinberg the half Jew becomes Steinberg the super Jew. Steinberg, who only sees the outside of a Temple when he drives pass one on the way to pick up Lyn's booze in Washiongton Hts, now speaks Yiddish and quotes the Torah.
Take a look at this article from the WSJ
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/rbartley/?id=110003602
I reread this and noted the following paragraph.
Sometimes it is overt anti-Semitism; with "Children of Satan," Mr. LaRouche has chosen an Aryan-nation phrase for Jews (descendants of Cain, who was the result of Satan seducing Eve, in this perfervid theology). At other times, often in the hands of accusers who are Jewish themselves, it is a charge of secret loyalties. The Jews, or Israel, or the Likud have conspired to take over American foreign policy.
I find this fascinating because we always had things like this in our publications that would go over the heads of our members. Reprinting the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, defending Nazi scientists and guards, disputing holocost deaths. Loook up Larouche and the Zayed center and you will see how well recieved LHL was in the same place where other kooks and anti semites are welcomed for their lunatic Jewish views.
So whenever the question is raised about the anti semitic lunacy of the cult, Steinberg and the remaining Jewish members would say:
"That is just a slander against the growing influence of Larouche. Hey, I am Jewish myself. I would not be here if we were anti semitic." In the 80's, I rememember every Jewish member reciting this either on the phone or in "the field" (Larouche speak).
Of course almost all of the Jewish members came to their senses and left. Today, Steinberg has morphed into a "Trojan Jew". His job is to handle all of the secret meetings with various kook and conspiracy people and see what wild eyed line can be used for the briefing or the EIR. Since LHL is considered a lunatic, Steinberg does the calls as a journalist and acts serious until the lunacy erupts from his mouth like the little critter erupts from the chest of that guy in the Alien movies.
Steinberg had a run with the Diana death as anything with the British is good fodder. Fayed the Father in law would take any explanation for that event. Steinberg also does the calls to Military and other journalists. Usually the deal is that the other person knows that he is nuts, but will take his call so that maybe there wil be a smidgen of a lead for some real work to be done. The best thing for the journalists is that they get intersting tid bits from Steinberg, throw away 99% and then claim the 1 % as their own work.
When the web began expanding in the 90's I found the following quite fascinating. Looking up various kook and conspiracy sites, I would notice that their web articles would eventually show up a few weeks later on the early EIR web site. Today you can look at various conspiracy sites set up during the Y2K hysteria and see EIR articles posted that were originally lifted from another kook site.
Steinberg's biggest delusion is that he thinks he will be next in line when LHL kicks the bucket. Aint gonna happen. The real power is in Germany and they will not let a half Jew have full power. They may let him think that, but we know better. Steinberg's main job is to call various Muslim outfits, amuse them with LHL rantings about 9/11 and send them a package of EIRS. The reciepients get the package and have a good laugh at how a guy named Steinberg is part of a group that sees more problems with Israel than Arab countries. You can see Steinberg for a short clip in the movie "Control Room" about Al Jezeera.
Finally, let me explain how the delusions of LHL work using my 6 degrees of LHL formula. Back in the 80's we committed a lot of fraud with credit cards and loans. We also shipped a lot of members across the ocean to evade a Boston Grand Jury. Steinberg's wife Michelle kept meticulous notes about this which were then used as evidence to convict a lot of people. In Boston, William Weld was the prosecutor. Later, Weld ran for office against Kerry. Kerry won and we claimed to have something to do with that by having the few members not in jail hand out some leaflets about Weld. We then mail some printed rantings to Kerry's people and claim that we are working behind the scenes to defeat Weld.
During the primary season the yutes confront Kerry in New Hampshire. You can read all about how Kerry reorganised his campaign in a major US News and World Report article, but that is not in the Bizarro world. LHL then claims that the Yutes singing for spare change in Boston and New Hampshire were the deciding factor in Kerry being a real candidate. Kerry falls in the polls due to the Swift Boat ads, but not in the Bizarro world. Kerry fell because LHL was being shut out by the the Dems. Clinton advisors like James Carville come aboard and Kerry now is gaining. In the Bizarro world, Kerry is gaining because LHL is working behind the scenes. You will see some LHL lunacy appear in some articles in leftist media, without Steinberg or LHL named.But, in the Bizarro world, Michael Moore does not exist, his movie did not do 115 million box office, only the LHLK card tables shrines saved the day.
The yutes will be told that after Kerry wins, it will be because of LHL and that will result in LHL having a "back door" to the White House as a reward. We did the same thing with Reagan and claimed the same thing with Clinton. With Clinton LHL claimed that he was to be pardoned by Clinton, but the evil oligarchy kept Clinton from doing it.
One other six degree of Larouche. During the 70's we had our own party called the US Labor Party. LHL ran for president in 1976 as a USLP candidate. In most cities we would try to sell our newspaper "New Solidarity" at unemployment centers. We used to get into fights with various leftist groups that would also be at the UE center. One of the groups was "Vietnam Veterans Against the War" or, VVAW. VVAW was the group that Kerry was a member of when he testified against the war in congress. Kerry left the VVAW I think when it became too crazy. So for you trivia buffs, LHL did have contact with Kerry over 30 years ago in an indirect way.
BTW. Michael Moore was a contact of ours in Flint when he was in college. He had some of our lit and we tried to get him to meetings in our office.
xlcr4life

 

borisbad
10-07-2004, 01:43 PM
To add to xlcr4life's last posting, the earliest confrontation that I recall was with the UAW who objected to our selling New Solidarity outside auto plants and union halls, saying that the LC stole the name of the paper from the UAW paper's Solidarity. Who knows if Leonard Woodcock wasn't right, although I don't think the name Solidarity was particularly unique to the UAW since the Wobblies had it back in the beginning of the last century. I think tho' that the fight with the UAW might have presaged the later fights with the Communist Party, etc. during mopup. And of course the UAW was primarily out of Michigan also.

 

Anonymous
10-08-2004, 12:38 AM
I still maintain that in the U.S. Labor Party days there was a certain intellectual rigor and concern for the true intellectual culture not only of the working class, but of the membership as well. True, "The Paranoiac as the Letter P" (with due apologies to Wallace Stevens) had begun his impotent, misogynistic ravings in print and in drunken orgies of psychological abuse. But there was an integrity to _Dialectical Economics_ that somehow evaporated once they started drumming up that American System gunk. That I suppose is when creative mentation began to give way to pandering. Shortly thereafter, Uberbroad hijacked Schiller and it was off to the races. Lyn's earlier stated preference for Heine showed an appreciation of the best in German culture far superior to the Butterbrot served up by Der Helga. I would propose, with all due deference to LaRouche's dementia, that the pandering to as many fringe groups as possible was what significantly eroded intellectual life in the LC, a life that ended c.1978.
People used to be able to cite chapter and verse from _The Phenomenology of Mind_, for example; very few now have even actually read the _Commedia_, let alone allowing it to seep into their consciousness the way we used to do with some of the great works in the German critical tradition.
Ideas used to be the glue that held the organization together; for decades now it has been a cult of personality (personalities?) which has served as the adhesive, probably because worship is so much easier than thought.
But then, I am probably being too generous with what after all was always a hateful menace.
a.

 

Anonymous
10-09-2004, 09:00 PM
LHL has given us a deadline. November 2nd.
Does that mean he'll stop claiming the crash is coming if it doesn't arrive by then?
Yeh right!
http://larouchepac.org/pages/writings_files/2004/040913_keepthinking_prt.htm
Does that mean he'll admit his theories are trash?
NOT!

 

xlcr4life
10-10-2004, 06:35 AM
Anon 198 wrote:
"Does that mean he'll stop claiming the crash is coming if it doesn't arrive by then? "
The only crash that I know of involving Larouche is the car crash that killed a member back in 1992 or so. A long time member named Michael Gelber was killed in a head on crash on an upstate NY road that winter. Since this is stuff no one talks about, various people had bits of the story in the group.
Evidently, Mike was driving alone in the middle of the night when he dozed off at the wheel. If he was in a typical Org car, than we know the heat did not work, the tires were bald and he was probably sleep deprived from working 24/7 for LHL.
Mike was head of our Boston region for a while. During the Grand Jury investigations we sent him across the Atlantic to our European offices to eavoid the Grand Jury which was under way. Mike's wife stayed in the US during this ordeal.
When he returned, life went back to the typical Bizarro world of assasination plots, the Queen and what ever else caught a late night boozing LHL fancy.
After Michael's death, Helga announced a fund for Mike via the Schiller institute, which I could not figure out if it was for Michael's parents, wife or Helga. you can find it on the Schiller web site.
Now Michael Gelber is long forgotten and not even a footnote in the Bizarro world. I wondered how come you rarely see the Yutes on BB sites and this site anymore. If you were to read this post from beginning to end, and see how much we covered, I would ban the Yutes from reading this stuff as well.
The carrot given to the Yutes is that if Kerry wins the election, than LHL will be an insider with the administration. We did the same thing with Reagan back in the 80's. We paraded ourselves as Democrats, but worked to discredit Carter, Mondale as KGB agents. Then we met with a few lower rung Reagan people and parlayed that into elevating LHL as being the most important man in the globe. Each whopper story was bigger than the previous one. Even to the point that LHL stated that a Reagan - Gorbachev summit ended with Gorby "demanding the head of LHL on a silver platter" to continue ARMS talks.
So listen to old dead ender Debbie Freeman impress her new young boy friend and the rest of the yutes over the "Dem insiders" who are viewing LHL as the second coming.
We really only covered a wee bit of this truly insane story. This stuff is like selling a time share in the Bizarro World of LHL. Eventually, you admit that you were screwed and leave, but some purchasers never want to admit how their time share in Bizarro World have bankrupted them with more force than the IMF/WORLD BANK could.
xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
10-10-2004, 08:06 AM
the posts here have been very, very helpful in turning the people that i used to be in contact with away from LHL.
i used to help arrange meetings for the cult in my region, and contact people who were unfortunate enough to make contact with the cult on behalf of the org.
i still have a list of people i used to e-mail and i make it a point to un-do as much as possible everything i ever did for the cult.
i have directed them here to this site, and also, answered some questions from a few of them.
if just one person stops subscribing to eir, then everything done here has been worth it.

 

Anonymous
10-11-2004, 02:34 AM
I would like to hear more about the untimely end of Michael Gelber and the circumstances surrounding his death. Michael was a red diaper baby from Long Island whose parents objected strenuously to his involvement with the fascist LaRouche. He worked out of Canada for a time, was head of the Syracuse, NY local, then worked with Joe Fish as head of the Rochester, NY local, then moved onto Buffalo, NY before his long-time deployment to Boston. He had been a long-time brainwashing victim of Khushro Gandhi and Judah "Phil" Rubenstein when they were jointly running the Buffalo region out of the Endicott Square building there. He had once been the boyfriend of the same Ellie Kaplan who once called out Kissinger at the Newark Airport when the latter was on his way to heart surgery (doesn't one need a heart for that?) He may also have dated Linda Rogovin (is she still in the org?)
I think his parents deserve to know the full truth of what happened.
a.
There is also the mysterious murder of a Rochester, NY member, one Charles Grande who was bludgeoned to death at the same time in his home. See
http://www.websterpolice.org/grande.htm
While Gelber was a 100% LaRouche fanatic, Grande was a hell of a good guy as one can gather from the photograph.

 

xlcr4life
10-11-2004, 07:28 PM
Anon 66.65 wrote:
"He (Gelber)may also have dated Linda Rogovin (is she still in the org?) I think his parents deserve to know the full truth of what happened."
Gelber never dated Linda Rogavin. Come to think of it, the idea of dating was not in the vernacular. Usually, there was a pecking order among the "Field" hands based on whether you were an NC, steering committee member, or fundraiser. The usual state of affairs was what I have read described as an "NC Power Couple". That meant a male NC who ran the local office, while his wife/girlfriend spent 14 hours a day raising money on the phone. If the woman did not raise the quota that day, you can be sure that the male NC made her the target of that evenings briefing update. Of course, the real fun began at home where the shouting and hystrionics over her failure would escalate into near, and sometimes violence. Does the phrase "Bitch slap" mean anything to the readers?
That may explain why mild mannered Linda Rogavin went with a mild mannered guy named Mike Leppig. Leppig was our top Airport fundraiser at the Larouche card table shrines at Laguardia. We sent him, along with Mike Millington around the country to show everyone how to make a pile of cash at the tables.
Leppig's claim to fame is I think an episode where he left his first wife and new daughter after she was born to join the LC. Do you think a father can make child support payments on 5 dollars a day? "Thanks dad for helping me out and taking care of me after you left". It had to be an interesting discussion over how to raise minature Beethovens, when you can't even cover the cost of a 12 pack of Pampers.
Rogovin and Mike wear their Larouche devotion on their sleeves. In fact, the sleeves they put it on are the exact same sleeves from the coats they bought 25 years ago. Mike had a little more of an easy schedule as he developed diabetes or some similar type of medical condition. So he was able to go home each night. Later. around Midnight, Linda would come home. We missed Mike's humor at the Texas Airports.
As far as Michael Gelber's parents being informed. It would be interesting to compare their experience to the family of Jeremiah Duggan.
Grande was the type of person we had around the country who read our material, gave money,but always kept his day job. He moved around NY and NJ a few times. One thing to understand about these supporters is that we raked them over the coals for every dime they had. Not only did we get their cash, but their credit cards, home loans, tax refund checks and what ever was not nailed down in the house. If they had an apt, we bummed 3 guys with them. Notice how in 1991, Grande's car was a 1980 Volare. Many people we used were left with so much debt and defaulted loans, that their lives and marriages were ruined. I ran into him at various National Conferences. He was a fun guy, but he knew that the lunacy of the org. always rose to the surface, no matter how rational the first words were.
Think of this for a moment. Mike Leppig is at JFK airport all day at the TWA terminal. He and his wife Linda Rogovin are scrounging to pay the rent before the sheriff is called. Mike's daughter calls the house and asks Linda about how she will pay for school. Linda tells her that Mike is at JFK saving humanity at a LHL card table shrine. At the exact moment that Mike is at the shrine taking his 5 dollar a day cut, Helga's dogs are now landing at the same Terminal from West Germany. The dogs cost 5 THOUSAND dollars to ship each way, Mike gets 5 dollars, the daughter gets a briefing.
And the security people in Leesburg wonder how come I call this the Larouche Bizarro World?
xlcr4life

 

Anonymous
10-12-2004, 12:37 AM
i think helga's taste for the high life may have been because of the fact that she was an orphan in post-war germany...germnay at that time was not in a good shape, and being an orphan must have been tough on that little Hausfrau...and she's determined to have what other normal little girls had when they were growing up -- mainly fawning attention, pets, horses (for some, at least) and nice clothes.
in the org mythology, Helga is passed off as some 'journalist', before she met and married the lunatic, but i suspect that her life story may not be as "golden soul" -ish as the org would like itself to believe.
lyn - on the other hand - went crazy a long time ago. i suspect it might have had something to do with what happened to him when he was a young boy sent to live with men in the draft objectors camp.
it was no 'camp' - more like a prison.
in lyn, you can see all the classic signs of an abused child - at least psychologically if not physically - growing up and becoming a child abuser later on in adult life.

 

Anonymous
10-12-2004, 05:02 AM
Actually, I believe Gelber did have something with Rogovin briefly long before Leppig back in the Upstate NY days ... sorry to hear she's still in the org because she too was one of my favorite people there. It's hard to understand how any self-respecting Jew can stay with that bunch.
The abused child idea does make sense of a lot of Lyn's behavior it would seem, although I'm no psychologist; and perhaps most of us had been abused as children to put up with such patent nonsense.
a.

 

borisbad
10-14-2004, 02:02 PM
I personally remember seeing Linda Rogovin a few years ago, and she looked to be about sixty years old. She was also wearing a winter coat in the summer time. I don't know if it was old lady syndrome or some medical problem.
I was wondering whether anyone on this site knows about LaRouche's Australian adjunct, the CEC, which must have been recruited after I left. I think Al Douglas is the head honcho doing the liaison work with this group. I found an interesting site on this re: LaR's CEC operations. http://www.aijac.org.au/review/2001/265/cecmoney.html

 

Kheris
10-14-2004, 05:05 PM
Well I know this is their website http://www.cecaust.com.au/

 

Anonymous (66.17.48.45)
10-18-2004, 03:09 PM
How to Stump a La Rouche 'ian...
Their whole premise relys on Nuclear power as the way to solve our energy problems.
1- Ask them what they are going to do with all of the radioactive waste from additional plants when we don't know what to do with the existing stuff.
2- Ask them what they propose to do about overpopulation. Keep feeding everyone and extend the population bubble?
- Those get them every time...

 

Anonymous
10-18-2004, 06:50 PM
in bizarro world, there is always an answer...no solutions, just simple answers...
what to do with radioactive wastes -- lyn will ship them into space.
what to do with a big population -- mars is a big planet.

 

Anonymous
10-19-2004, 04:19 AM
Actually, the LaRouche answers to those particular questions are correct: (1) have a closed fission cycle (which the U.S. does not have), and whatever residuum remains crystallize in a stable formation and bury, (2) overpopulation is the consequence of poor policy: technology and better policy IS the solution.
I refer you to an NBC TV documentary from some years ago: "Nuclear Energy: in France, It Works."
One does not have to be a LaRouche nut to believe in a better life through technology. If you really want to stump these people, confront them with the abject poverty of their own lives in comparison with that of Der Helga; or ask them - well, they wouldn't listen - but ask why they "think" ONE individual has THE ANSWER for EVERY question? That's the Grundgesetz of the Bizarro World.
a.

 

borisbad
10-20-2004, 08:34 AM
I have to agree with Anonymous 66.65 on this one, not only on the issue of the fast breeders etc. and possible other technological solutions to our current energy mess. That was one area that the old FEF was correct in, I believe. Low grade solutions like "alternate energy" are not going to provide the energy rich sources for the future. I can't say what the current status of fusion research is these days, I don't even see the LaRouche site talking about it any more, but fusion certainly should appeal to those concerned about fission problems.
However, I do agree that while technology does allow for continued increases in population density, and mankind is not going to cut back on its own growth based upon idealistic appeals, that there is some theoretical limit to growth. But, interestingly, as we see, in the developed countries, population growth is becoming negative on its own, and I think that as countries begin to develop there become forces counteracting the need to just reproduce. A lot of the population growth in developing countries is just to ensure that enough family members survive to ensure for the continuation of the family and the support of the older members of those families.

 

xlcr4life
10-21-2004, 02:59 PM
Anon 66.65 wrote:
"Actually, the LaRouche answers to those particular questions are correct"
You need to reword this statement. Almost every thing written by LHL is from the hard work of some one else. A few lines are lifted from the few hundred people we had doing daily research and work. The rest of the articles are usually so insane, that we never were able to expand like we thought we would.
If anything, the real kudos goes to the many ex members who made rational ideas, sound rational to our supporters, and then covered up the lunacy that usually followed after one opened up the magazine or book which we sold them.
In almost every case I have seen, ex members who left have become extremely successfull in their research, legal, teaching, accounting, health, care, artictic, research and scientific endeavors.
LHL still depends on a small cult of sycophants to feed, bathe, drive and clothe him. I am sure that many of you who attended various conferences can attest to the many times you cringed at some lunatic thing you heard LHL spout.
When you could no longer cringe with a straight face, then you left. There is a good reason why you no longer read anything from the current LYM inhabitatants of the Bizarro world on non LYM web sites.
So many quality people left NYC and/or Leesburg, that one can honestly say that the entire LHL house of cards is dealt by part time Leesburg School System substitute teachers.
xlcr4life

 

borisbad
10-22-2004, 11:59 AM
If you're suggestion that most of the people remaining in Leesburg are substitute teachers, and if LaR's (and Sheila Jones') notion that "genius can be taught" then I would imagine that the schoolchildren in Leesburg are receiving an education equivalent at least to Plato's Academy or Gottingen University with many breathtaking experiments in blowing bubbles to create tetrahedrons, etc. going on under the auspices of Larry Hecht. Anybody have a breakdown on the ratings of Leesburg on the National school ratings?

 

Anonymous
10-22-2004, 01:41 PM
Yes, the young uns do well on tests, and then are brought in for routine college interviews wherein they regale the stunned interlocutors with the following:
Aristotle was a creep.
The Apostles were agents of a Platonic city-building conspiracy.
Newton was evil.
Salieri killed Mozart.
Schiller was far more brilliant than Goethe.
LaRouche is far more brilliant than Keynes.
LaRouche is the greatest mind since Leibniz.
Marcos was a Philosopher King.
Kissinger is a British agent.
School is for dunces.
etc.
ok?
a.

 

xlcr4life
10-22-2004, 02:50 PM
Boris Bad wrote:
"LaR's (and Sheila Jones') notion that "genius can be taught"
The graduates of the the Sheila Jones school are swiftly promoted to a Larouche card table shrine. There is a lot of tension in Leesburg over handing over your kids to the dead enders.
FYI, several of the the core people have sent their kids to college and discourage their kids from having contact with Bizarro world.
Some of the remaining dead enders are now in menopause and regret what they have done in regards to children, and not having children.
Another core group of deadenders behaves like people imprisoned against their will, and turn on their fellow inmates. This group is the most hard core against members who do not sacrifice their kids to the Bizarro Gods.
I am happy to say, that with a few minor exceptions, almost all of the ex members who have had kids report startling results. High math awards and scholarships to prestigious Universities. Normal lives, with stable parents. Military honors.
The dead enders enjoy the "Larouche College Tuition Plan". This is where you raise your kids, scrape a few bucks for their schooling, and then send your kids to a Larouche card table shrine and donate the money to save him from the latest assasination plot from the Queen of England. Since everyone agree that the only knowledge known is "Secret knowledge" that Larouche knows, college is rather worthless.
There are many people who were bankrupted by their experience with the Bizarro World who now work at bottom tier jobs in Leesburg. They do however, have a degree from Bizarro U.
xlcr4life

 

Kheris (63.155.144.60)
10-24-2004, 01:55 PM
The Washington Post nails down LHL in the Sunday Magazine. Opens and closes with the Duggan affair, and copiously quotes from LHL's sites to make some points. I enjoyed reading it. I bet the 'yutes' will be loving it just because it acknowledges their existence.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46883-2004Oct20.html

 

borisbad (138.89.150.135)
10-24-2004, 03:26 PM
Just read the article too, and it may be an ironic but just twist of fate that a Jewish British mother may have a hand in unravelling the evil that LaRouche represents. While I left the organization at a time in my life when I didn't care what the deadenders thought, and didn't have any problems with them afterwards, I know that many that did who became reviled as "agents" or worse did have problems with these lunatics.
I think LaRouche's rants are probably helping Bush and Cheney with all the extravagant hyperbole, it probably discredits those who have real disagreements with the present administration.

 

Anonymous
10-25-2004, 07:06 AM
I am grateful for this bulletin board since it has over time progressively weaned me from any vestigial belief that LaRouche has anything of value to offer the world at all. I especially honor those like Kasprzac and Winstead who allow their names to be associated in print with truth-telling about LaRouche and risk potential harm from the LaRouchites in retaliation. Imagine not only the profound sadness at the death of a son and young man of promise, but the additional horror of recognizing that his own good nature was so frightfully abused by a murderously evil fruitcake as the unfortunately long-lived LaRouche ...
a.
I wonder though if Kasprzak still thinks professional wrestling is real?

 
 

Michael Scott Winstead (66.92.173.156)
10-25-2004, 09:03 PM
Well. So I went to lunch today and ran into some old friends of mine, they had a large banner that said "Larouche Endorses Kerry"--and I wondered, and not for the first time this week, if that endorsement pulled mory crazy right wing conspiracy theorists to Kerry--or turned more on-the-fence Republicans back to Bush. And they screamed at me about the article that came out this weekend--which took me by surprise, I didn't know it was out;and I started wondering whether or not, in this town, I was going to be able to keep my job.
BUT I stopped and talked to them for quite a while, and found a group of scared young kids screaming about the mess their nation is in, and turning to the only prophet they've found. I understand them, I know why they have a satisfied look on their face--but I know why it falters. I talk to them and speak plainly the truth of the organization that they're handing out papers for, speak plainly what they've seen in subconscuious hints for so long. I listened to them make exscuses about why the organization doesn't pay its bills, why Lyn was in jail, why nobody is paid a living wage, why Jeremih Duggan died; I listened to them deny every word out of my mouth..."Slander!," "Agent!," even "Your Controllers paid you well I see!"
BUT the worst part of it is, I understand them. It wasn't too long ago when I was making those same exscuses to others who were telling me the reality of where I was, and so I stuck around for all the time that I'm able, I try to talk them down, like someone talking a friend down from a ledge. But I have to admit that its maddening. These people have been programmed with every button-pushing psychological jab ever known to man and goddamn it is irritating!!
But I'm pretty sure I make little headway with them all--at least the newer members. You see them start to unravel a bit and think about it for a minute. You see them start to think,"Maybe I AM just standing out in the street begging for change for a cult leader--maybe I'm not poised to be a Philosopher King...," and I know they'll be thoroughly debriefed before they hit the pillow that night, but unless Lyn has something to say about it, they gotta sleep sometime--and maybe, for a moment, they'll remember a life with their own goals and dreams, and maybe tomorrow, or the week after--they'll pick up the phone, and instead of calling a "contact" they'll phone a friend or a relative and they'll say,
"Can you get me outta here?"

 

Anonymous
10-25-2004, 11:39 PM
I would recommend anyone dealing with one of these lost souls to direct him or her to this bulletin board. Not only will he see how past victims of LaRouche's nonsense have been adversely affected for life, but how nothing has changed in forty years of this guff. Humanity always has problems, "crises" if you will. LaRouche has done ZERO in his entire life to change anything except to expend young people's noble ambitions and talents in a wholesale expense of shame. LaRouche is not only a murderer of the body as in the Duggan case, but a murderer of mind and spirit as well. I fear a Marshall-Applewhite/Jim-Jones ending to this whole charade - except for Der Helga's Germans, who know what the real score is.
Forget doubling the square and living four to a room: stay in school and in your spare time teach someone to read. Let LaRouche die in the stinking puddle of his own bitter mediocrity alone and unwanted. Live, love, and have children. Love life and stop advancing an evil cause.
a.

 

Anonymous
10-26-2004, 08:02 AM
Michael Scott Winstead -
You can sleep at night knowing that you've done your best to help those caught in that rat trap.
Those young people still have to make their own choices.
Thanks for trying and don't give up. Looks like Herr Helga has plans for the future.

 

borisbad
10-26-2004, 02:28 PM
I really appreciate your post, Michael. While I was in for many years, I suspected that half of the stuff out of the propaganda mill was BS in which a few nuggets of good ideas were shunted. When I left, I didn't have tremendous ill will because I thought some of the goals had been admirable initially but that they were corrupted by LaRouche for the sake of money. However, it is certain that much of the craziness started much earlier around the time of mop-up.
At first, I still would go to a few meetings as a "periphery" and even bought the paper, which would come out about once every six months. I wouldn't of course give the money they wanted for EIR.
But after realizing more how despicable the whole "grind 'em up and throw 'em out" philosophy is, and especially when you see what happens to push someone like Jeremy Duggan over the edge, I began to connect more that this was not just a misguided operation, but one that was or had become a totally evil aggrandizement of LaRouche's ego.
Unfortunately, like others, I still have some feelings for some of the "dead-enders" whom I knew, who had the same mis-givings that I did, but probably figured it was easier to hang on than to make the break and start a real life.
Certainly, one school teacher, doctor, nurse, or even honest politician has done vastly more than this purveyor of poison.

 

Anonymous
10-27-2004, 11:27 AM
Any young person of any age who wants to do something to help the world might check out:
www.idealist.org
No sane organization or individual promises to give you many - let alone all - answers to life's questions, so a good rule of thumb is to avoid those who try to provide you the vicarious thrill of omniscient omnipotence without the hard work and dedication required to actually make a positive difference.
a.

 

Anonymous
10-31-2004, 07:56 PM
The latest from Cap'n Queeg:
The urgency of the following report is defined by the fact that I am relatively unique on this planet, currently, in my capacity to provide the following, crucially needed assessment of the most crucially determining features of present world situation. The essential nature of that evidence fully supporting my claims to relatively unique competence on this account, will be made sufficiently, if succinctly clear in the following, compact report.
Happy Halloween!
a.

 

Anonymous
11-01-2004, 01:44 AM
lyn masturbated [again] on radio recently and spurted out...
"WE'VE GOT TO ELECT THE GUY, FIRST—AND THEN, WE'VE GOT TO TRAIN HIM"
kerry wouldn't do it with lyn, so lyn had to do it alone...

 

Anonymous
11-01-2004, 09:44 AM
Chakotay, take note:
Queeg: No, I, I don't see any need of that. Now that I recall, he might have said something about messboys and then again he might not -- I questioned so many men and Harding was not the most reliable officer.
Lt. Greenwald (Jose Ferrer): I'm afraid the defense has no other recourse than to produce Lt. Harding.
Queeg: Now there's no need for that I know exactly what hell tell you. Lies! He was no different than any officer in the wardroom -- they were all disloyal, I tried to run the ship properly by the book but they fought me at every turn. If the crew wanted to walk around with their shirttails hanging out that's all right let them take the tow line. Defective equipment no more no less, but they encouraged the crew to go around scoffing at me and spreading wild rumors about steaming and circles. And then old yellow stain. I was to blame for Lt. Merrick's incompetence and poor seamanship. Lt. Merrick was the perfect officer but not Captain Queeg.
Ah, but the strawberries! That's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes, but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt, and with geometric logic, that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox did exist! And I'd have produced that key if they hadn't pulled Caine out of action! I-I-I know now they were only trying to protect some fellow officer and!......(realizes he has been ranting, babbling)
Naturally, I can only cover these things from memory if I've left anything out, why, just ask me specific questions and I'll be glad to answer them...one-by-one...
Ah, but the strawberries ...
a.

 

akhilleus (akhilleus)
11-02-2004, 07:56 AM
LaRouche in 2004! Yay!!
a.

 

kheris (kheris)
11-02-2004, 05:21 PM
Is it possible there will be justice for Jeremiah Duggan? According to http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0,2763,1340385,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/article/0%2C2763%2C1340385%2C00.html) it is just possible there may be.

 

wanderer (wanderer)
11-06-2004, 05:04 PM
The youth movement that never was compared with the real deal.
"In 'The Disciplined MInd' I seek to synthesize over thirty years of research in the cognitive and biological sciences, and over fifteen years of involvement in precollegiate education."
Howard Gardner. Cambridge, Massachusetts. June 2000
"The Disciplined Mind: Beyond Facts and Standardized tests, the K-12 Education That Every Child Deserves." By Howard Gardner. Penguin Books, 2000. Second Edition. ISBN 0-684-84324-2 (hc) 0 14 02.9624 7 (pbk) Can be bought at Barnes and Noble.
"Howard Gardner is the John H. and Elizabeth A. Hobbs Professor of Cognition and Education and Adjunct Professor of Psychology at Harvard University; Adjunct Professor of Neurology at the Boston School of Medicine; and Codirector of Project Zero at Harvard University. The recipient of many honors, including sixteen honorary degrees, a Guggenheim Foundation Fellowship and a MacArthur Prize Fellowship, Gardner is the author of eighteen books and several hundred articles. In 1990 he became the first American to receive the University of Louisville's Grawemeyer Award in education.
Here's the blurb from the back of the book.
"In 'The Disciplined Mind', Howard Gardner, the brilliant educator who revolutionized our thinking with his theory of multiple intelligences, offers a controversial and far-reaching work on the goals of education. His argument - aimed at parents, educators, and the general public alike - is that K-12 education should enhance a deep understanding of three principles: truth, beauty, and goodness. Gardner explores how teaching students three subjects - the theory of evolution, the music of Mozart, and the lessons of the Holocaust - would illuminate the nature of truth, beauty and morality.
"Far from the fact-based, standardized-test mentality that has gripped both policy makers and the public, Gardner envisions an educational system that will help younger generations rise to the challenges of the future, while preserving the traditional goals of a 'humane' education."

 

kheris (kheris)
11-07-2004, 08:18 AM
So now we know where LHL stole his ideas for the LYM. Except he dropped evolution, substituted Shakespeare for the Holocaust, and appropriated Mozart to his own purpose, with a liberal dose of Bel Canto singing.

 

akhilleus (akhilleus)
11-07-2004, 09:55 AM
Gardner came along long after Fearless Leader was already concocting his poison. The LYM is just a rehash of what the kook did at Columbia, Swarthmore, et al. in the sixties - the LYM is nothing new at all, just the frenetic thrashings of a dying beast trying to pump life into itself.
a.

 

akhilleus (akhilleus)
11-24-2004, 05:22 AM
LaRouche's minions are busy now mourning the death of Arafat. That really ties it for me. How depraved does one have to be? I suppose the hope is some petrodollars will assist Der Helga in pursuit of her hobbies.
a.

 

michael (michael)
11-25-2004, 11:48 AM
Lyndon Larouche to Begin Porn Label
After failing to capture the presidency for a 7th time, economist Lyndon H. Larouche Jr. has decided to focus his efforts on the burgeoning business of online porn. Larouche came to this decision after much concentrated thought into the matter.
"Late one night, after working on my new paper "The Gobal Hemotoxin Residue Crisis", which is currently afflicting the north side of every continent, placed there by British Jews who were programmed by the Morroccan Mafia, in order to stop my growing influence...I happened upon something called the Teen Pleasure Spot, and it occurred to me that the porn industry will collapse immediately should it not return to the Classical Humanist Form of pornography--this is the only way that we will be able to save the planet, as the growing industry has fallen into dire need, and its collapse will bring about a domino effect that will topple economies faster than you can say,'Stick it in my mouth'."
Larouche explained his Classical Humanist Pornography.
"What most people don't realize is that the early Phoenicians had discovered a way through geometry to maximize the Platonic Neo-phithean Ratio in such a way that ensures not only massive ejaculation for you, but for generations to come. Some associates of mine have been tracking the progress of their secret code, written in heiroglyphics, and subsequently destroyed by the B'nai Brith line of Masons, who are not really Masons, but devil-worshipping Mormons who came from the inner-crcle of the Mormons, the Smithenites who were originally sent to so-called Mormon prophet Joe Smith by the Rockefellers, these B'nai-Brith-Devil-Worshipping-Smithenite-Rockefeller Masons kept the secret hidden, until one day a brave associate of mine, Stone Cockhammer, produced a work that broke the code in 1964. "Plumbers Laying Pipe" debuted on screens across the nation, and its success spurred a whole line of yard workers, milkmen, mailmen, and delivery drivers startling a wife at home. What we have seen in recent times is a lack of this critical formula, and, should it not be restored, what we shall see is breakdown of the present porn economy, a blow so devasting, it will destroy mankind."
Larouche then produced several graphs and charts to explain his calculations.
"This chart represents what we have seen from human civilization to date, and you can see, with no classical porn to prop up the dying system, that the current crisis we will be facing will be one of dire proportions," added Larouche,"Did I mention it was the jews?."
When asked how he plans to implement this plan, Larouche spoke deftly and assuredly. "Are you blind? My associates and I, have been campaigning for the Presidency for nearly thirty years. They have been broken mentally , physically, and have degraded themselves on street corners begging for money for my campaigns. They'll do whatever I tell them like they were trained dogs...hell I have them collecting money for the 2008 election right now, can you believe that? Sorry,it's late can you edit that? Thank you. Okay, write this down. My associates and I, with a committment to truth, shall begin flooding the United States with thousands of copies of Stone Cockhammer's new series, including Pizza Girls 7, Extra Sausage for Your Wife, and Anal Pipe Fitting. This saturation, of the porn of the proper intention, has the power to begin a rennaissance of immeasurable proprtions. And I'll make a few bucks.
It is of critical importance to all of civilization that you immediately purchase these videos, and absorb the information in them."
www.cynicnews.com (http://www.cynicnews.com)

 

borisbad (borisbad)
01-14-2005, 03:40 PM
It seems a shame that this site has lost involvement, either because of the election in which LaRouche once again disappeared into inanity or because of the new posting requirements. So I'll try and open things up.
My question for anyone on this site is simple, anyone care to bet on how much money LaRouche and his minions have given to support the Tsunami disaster relief. I saw a piece on their EIR site with the typical hype that the Pacific Rim strategy could help all these countries in the region, but I'm sure that in terms of meeting the immediate needs of one person in that part of the world, not one of the muckety-mucks in the NCLC gave a penny to providing real assistance.

 

anon127 (anon127)
01-16-2005, 05:51 PM
hausfrau helga tried to cash in on the deaths of over 100,000 tsunami victims by saying that a warning system would cost is a phone call...though i saw one article in malaysia saying that it would cost a few million dollars. perhaps the hausfrau knows something about engineering that engineers don't...the world is a very simple place for hausfraus...
on another note, mike billington is currently sucking up to east timor ...i used to work with that criminal, and i still remeber very vividly, that he campaigned behind the scenes AGAINST east timor independence in order to curry favor with the indonesian government, calling gusmao (the east timor leader) an agent, etc...pointing out that gusmao is married to an australian, just like aung san suu kyi's husband is an englishman - in a bid to imply that both were british agents. billington also used to call megawati a british agent, though after she became president, he called a a nationalist's daughter. among other games that billington played was denied the indonesian government military was involved in riots against the ethnic chinese there during the 97-98 financial crisis (though the indonesian government later admitted it a few years later). billington also denied any atroxity the indonesian military commited in east timor, claiming it to be all NGO fabrications (i.e. agent).
but apparently, the indonesian government didn't buy enough eir subscriptions, so old agents are now new friends...

 

michael (michael)
02-09-2005, 08:29 AM
Hi all,
So there definitely does seem to be a lack of interest in this board...I think its because we're not helping to go any further. Here's my idea: we go out in groups of two and sell anti-LaRouche lit on street corners, and each morning you can read my new assessment of what the Larouchies are doing...hmmm.
OK, maybe not. But, to begin some movement on something, I think we should post the addresses of all the local offices.
I'll start:
The Baltimore Local is at
3918 Vero Rd
Baltimore, MD
Lets try to get them all out there...

 

neoprocrustes (neoprocrustes)
02-10-2005, 06:27 PM
I see these guys almost daily at UC Berkeley.
They wear placards saying "your math teacher is an occultist". Being a curious math major I talked to them... and found them rather offputting. They wanted my number and wanted me to get in a car with them and so I was sufficiently creeped out to leave. I argued with them about mathematics (my area of expertise)... and its a good thing they did... if it were history or something I don't know much about they could have convinced me I was wrong quickly.
Come to think of it they tried to get off the math topic once they saw that I knew what I was alking about and into epistemology and what not quickly. No doubt trying to switch the topic to a subject where I was weak.
What creeps me out about this cult is that the ppl in it seem really smart... before seeing them I would have thought tht only stupid people or people with real problems would fall victims to cults but this experiance opened my eyes!
The thing that ed me off the most was the way they talked at me (I would hardly call it a level debate). They seem to use a sort of strong arm Socratic method.
Now as I understand it the socratic method is to get students to come across answers from within and develop ones personal thought process. For example: "Where does energy come from?" "food!" "and where does that come from?" "plants!" "and where does that energy come from?" "the sun" etc...
The key part of Socratic teaching being that it is NOT an indoctrination technique (i.e. it is not just a forced dissemination of information from a teacher to pupils)
but the Larouchian version of this seems more like a conditioning. Like how if you shock a rat everytime it eats red foor it will only eat the blue food.
In larouchian "dialogue" when you point out something that goes against their philosophy they "shock" you by insulting you
e.g. "Do you realize how crazy you sound?"
as so they lead you to the answer... not neccesarily the true answer but the answer that they WANT YOU TO GET TO. And because it was done in a socratic style the pupil feels like they came across that answer on their own and so believes it stronger than if just the larouchite had said some B.S. statement.
Whats really sad is how the orginization is run... some of their ideas seem interesting and they seem to catch alot of powerful ppl in the act.... but the fact that they don't allow independant thought and "shock" you into a certain mold scares me....
Hell if they really believe their cause (enlightening all the opressed ppl) why dont they go to poor areas and recruit the truly disadvanteged. Why recruit on campus where the ppl already have a foot in the door of the system?
honestly if they went and taught inner-city kids that didnt go to college philosophy and what not that might not even be a bad thing. True larouch would be lording over them.. but then again without a college degree those ppl will mostly end up in some job where they report to a boss anyways.

 

anon127 (anon127)
02-16-2005, 05:59 PM
"Do you realize how crazy you sound?"
..this is what each larouchie should ask himself/herself whenever someone goes...
either..
"lyn is always right".
or...
"lyn was right".
lyn is a joke trying to ride on KNOWN problems. this is how he and his hausfrau makes a living.
for a more professional discussion on economic problems..visit http://www.stern.nyu.edu/globalmacro/
as u can see from that site, quite a number of people are aware that there is a problem with the current financial system. the problems are well-known, and well-discussed. larouhce's fraudulent claims that he's the only one this or the only one that is just fanstasy.
anyone who thinks just by putting a criminal (i.e larouche) into the white house is going to solve problems deserves to stand at a literature booth for $50 a week.

 

angel_hair (angel_hair)
02-16-2005, 08:54 PM
does anybody in this know board know of anybody from LYM that just got out or recently got out from the org.

 

kheris (kheris)
02-22-2005, 08:29 PM
I watched the Pres Day Conference. Aside from the usual gobbledy gook from Herr Helga and her husband, there was the play put on by Beltran et al. According to Harley and RB they are going to go out and have a traveling theater troupe, all fueled by LHL's brilliance. Should be interesting

 

anon127 (anon127)
02-22-2005, 10:49 PM
the kids will travel from town to town, put on a monkey show, with someone going around the crowd, hat in hand, collecting quarters and dimes to help pay the credit card bills.
in the old days, people used to call things like this a travelling dog and pony show. but since helga lost her horse, and the old timers in the movement usually prefer to have dogs rather than have kids, they are using the youth movement for this.
lyb usually comes up with 'business' ideas such a Computron, the printing company, the real estate scam, etc... to help pay the bills. this time, it's a travelling clown show. but as usual, none of the ideas of the world's greatest economists ever works. the only that works in the movement is the credit card.

 

angel_hair (angel_hair)
03-01-2005, 08:18 PM
Somebody pls help me.my daughter is a current member of this movement for maybe 3 yrs or more. We had a big fight.I havent talk to her for almost a month now.She spoke to my sister and now accused me of controlling her life since she was a child which of course is not true. She also said why I dont read their books and pamphlets that I am not interested to what she is doing that I am imistic.My friends and even my sister is telling me to let go since she now an adult. she is twenty five yrs old.I am at a loss as to whether I should email her or just send her a letter.I tried to talk to her in the phone lately but seems like she disconnected it.I dont know if she did it in purpose or just made it sound like she press another button to make it appear that way.Our family is getting destroyed by this and I'm almost at the end of my rope that I'd been thinking of just shooting myself on the head.I'd been contemplating on committing suicide since I kind of feel hopeless on saving her.please help me.

 

neoprocrustes (neoprocrustes)
03-02-2005, 12:00 AM
Well maybe you could try to show her this board?
Honestly it made the situation clear for me.. and since both sides are represented it isn't part of a big govt conspiracy or what not.
Maybe you could challenge her to read through this long series of posts at least once? After all... refusing to read a long two-sided debate shouldn't be "irrational" even by their logic.
The posters on this board HAVE BEEN IN and they definately know what's up. It's hard to peg them as "boomers" or whatever word they use now.
I, an open minded college student thought it fair to give them a chance and listened to their peddlers. Suffice to say they are way creepy.
We kids are a bit gullible... I gave away my Soc Sec number and signed up for a credit card for a free subway sandwich... I got screwed in the end but I learned not to be so trusting... luckily that incedent came before meeting the larouchies so I had already built up a little bit of resistance.
For gods sake don't kill yourself! Worst case she wastes 10 years up he life in this dead end cause and begins the jobhunt and what not 10 years late...They aren't gonna kill her. Larouche is prolly gonna die of old age soon anyways. She needs you out there for support I am sure... thats how cults work they try to isolate you from the outside...
again my total contact with these types only lasted about 3-4 hours total and I was lucky enough (thanks in part to this message log) to get out before getting in so I don't know the real details of the group... the other ppl here seem to have been in and so would know more.
Hopefully your daughter will read these posts and come to her senses.

 

anon127 (anon127)
03-02-2005, 01:54 AM
hi angel_hair,
u can ask yr daughter to e-mail to larouchesociety@yahoo.com for a chat.
it can be a 3-way conversation..i'll cc you in.
i used to be with the cult, i left a couple of years ago. i knew the cult since 1994 - so i hv experience handlling larouchies. i know the tricks, and how to handle it.
quite a few of the posts here are from me. i hv helped turned a few people away from larouhce. anything i can do, i'll try my best.

 

angel_hair (angel_hair)
03-02-2005, 08:40 PM
thank you anon 127 and neoprocrustes.I'll try to get my daughter to this board.problem is- she only use their office computer and you know that there are lot of people milling around and probably checking on what they are doing.I'm not also sure if she will read my email once she knows its comming from me.

 

anon127 (anon127)
03-02-2005, 10:21 PM
much of larouche's ideology, "teachings", "bigger picture" is either, simplistic, heavily slanted or misleading.
larouche is completely simplistic on lincoln, FDR, etc. - the so-called "American System" presidents. for a more balanced treatment a lincoln, refer to "The Real Lincoln : A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War -- by THOMAS DILORENZO".
more serious historians report on both the positive and the negative.

 

drew (drew)
03-03-2005, 08:56 AM
To the person posting as "annonymous":
It is sad that you are so naive, simple-minded, closed -minded, and cowardly. Your Accusations about Mr. LaRouce are pathetic. I truly hope you "grow some balls" and do some of your own research (reaing a book by Dennis king doesn't count).
I urge you to remember that repeating opinions that you are to lazy and cowardly to prove is <u>Deadly</u>.

 

neoprocrustes (neoprocrustes)
03-03-2005, 02:59 PM
I think the definition of "closed-mindedness" is the unwillingness to listen to other opinions and a refusal to change your own ones.
By this definition, wouldn't a Larouchite's refusal to read this board follow under that definition?
Personally I HAVE done research. I have read both stuff about larouche (not dennis king.. just online articles) and stuff by larouche. I have talked to larouche ppl too.
Most importantly I found THIS BOARD wherein both sides have presented their points.
And I have come to the conclusion that although LaRouche has some points, his youth orginization seems cultish.
There's the work for low pay, the refusal to listen to outside sources, and the overall strong-arm (or should I say strong-mind) tactics that they employ.
For larouchites it isn't enough to spread information "here is a neat trick to double a square".. but rather they demand obediance and conformity to the Larouche way...
Its really scary how many smart ppl get sucked in... but the cult knows what it is doing. It goes after ppl on the cusp of adulthood. Smart ppl but now yet wise to the ways of the world; those who can be influenced easily.
Scary Stuff.

 

kheris (kheris)
03-03-2005, 04:28 PM
Drew - I would urge you to remember something before posting such stuff as this
I urge you to remember that repeating opinions that you are to lazy and cowardly to prove is Deadly.
That's the sort of stuff that can lead to unwanted visits by the police. It's already happened at LiveJournal.
I have read LHL's stuff, and I agree with neoprocrustes regarding the cult aspects of the organization. It is a cult of personality. Period. I would love to see it shut down. I can only hope that when the old man is finally gone the LYM crumbles to dust. Of course then the 'yoots' will have to confront the fact of their many lost years manning card table shrines.

 

kheris (kheris)
03-03-2005, 04:58 PM
And while we are on the topic, never hurts to remind folks about the young man whose case was reopened by the German constabulary, which failed to do their job and were embarrassed into agreeing to go back and do the work they should have done in the first place.
Justice for Jeremiah (http://www.justiceforjeremiah.com/sos.html)
If not for a determined mother, the truth around this young man's untimely death might have been buried forever. With any luck, the truth will result in a bright light being shone on the LYM's activities, and its relationship to the Schiller Institute. Some folks have come forward, thus the reopening of the case. Time for the rest to step up and reveal what happened.

 

anon127 (anon127)
03-03-2005, 08:29 PM
Dear Drew,
"It is sad that you are so naive, simple-minded, closed -minded, and cowardly."
...the only sad thing here is your $50 a week stipend while the "leadership" grows fat...just look at Helga.
"Your Accusations about Mr. LaRouce are pathetic."
...these are not accusations. Go read his writings in the Campaigners from the 70s onwards, and see for yourself how "The Man Who is ALWAYS right" just isn't.
"I truly hope you grow some balls..."
..spoken like a true LaRouchie.
"..do some of your own research (reading a book by Dennis king doesn't count)."
...i researched the movement for 10 years. even helped 'organize' for the movement for a few years. i used to get the am bfg, published over half a dozen articles in EIR, and was put into contact with some people the movement knew - to work with those people, as well as to inform on them.
"I urge you to remember that repeating opinions that you are to lazy and cowardly to prove is Deadly."
...deadly? u are just a stupid kid. they showed u some poorly done animated gifs on doubling a cube, and suddenly u think u are a better than everyone else. try not to act up, at least not with me...go try yr luck with college kids.

 

angel_hair (angel_hair)
03-03-2005, 10:23 PM
Drew, how old are you? how many yrs of college do you have? be honest.Larouche is but a frustrated wanna be President.If you are not one sided then you will see a lot of contradictions about what he preaches.Also try to find out what a cult is.Thank God I did not lose my sanity cause if I did ..something big, and really bad would have happened.God must still be looking down at me. I will not stop trying to get my daughter out of there..no matter what it takes.

 

neoprocrustes (neoprocrustes)
03-04-2005, 07:24 PM
In happier news, the larouche movement at Berkeley seems to have diminished. The card tables no longer adorn the streets...
I wonder where they all went...

 

angel_hair (angel_hair)
03-04-2005, 09:55 PM
Michael Winstead and xlrc4life where are you. are your computer down ? I'd been wondering if you got my email.
frank

 

kheris (kheris)
03-05-2005, 08:37 AM
In happier news, the larouche movement at Berkeley seems to have diminished. The card tables no longer adorn the streets...
I wonder where they all went...
They all went to Los Angeles to join The Traveling Bombastics. You know, LHL and Beltran's traveling repertory group. That or they got wise and went back to school.

 

maia (maia)
03-09-2005, 12:52 AM
I don't usually post to blogs/forums, as it's mostly bored people repeating what they heard elsewhere in a endless flame war. If only they were constructive.. Anyway, i'm a former member of the LYM, and I have to say, it's neither as wacked out as the media portrays, or as cute and cuddly as the Larouchies make out to be. I'm still not really sure, Some of the work goes on, the kids that are in the group, is just brilliant amazing stuff, the motivation the passion beyond anything you've ever seen in day to day life...go on inside the LYM... the problem is all of that passion, a blind fanatiscism emerges, the ideas, the studies are by themselves wonderful amazing things that can and should be used to make this a better world, but because of the isolation and many other factors contorts itself into a half-cult like creature combination political monster. The kids who have been in a while have lost all sense of identity (some of them developing uncontrolled twitching) and the inability to think outside the box they are given, all I can say is it's truly sad. Some brilliant kids wasting their energies. In short it's a good idea that for many reasons is in it's outcome really ed up.... any former members want to chit chat, hit me up with a reply.

 

maia (maia)
03-09-2005, 01:03 AM
I'd like to get a group going to exchange thoughts/feelings with former members. A lot of you like to stay annoymous for obvious reasons, so i'm not sure how that would work, but if anyone is interested let me know

 

maia (maia)
03-09-2005, 11:36 AM
btw, people keep mentioning 50 dollars a week. I don't know where everyone is from but we were lucky if we got 20 dollars a MONTH. The most ironic part is, how the orginization talks about Fiscal Austerity, or cutting the living conditions of the your populace to pay off debts etc. Yet the LYM will let their members go months without a dollar because they say they don't have enough money.

 

anon127 (anon127)
03-09-2005, 07:34 PM
maia,
there are major flaws in your understanding of what the youth movement was all about.
"Some of the work goes on, the kids that are in the group, is just brilliant amazing stuff, the motivation the passion beyond anything you've ever seen in day to day life"...
the brilliant amazing stuff u mentioned was lifted from the public library. u can do the same thing on your own, or your own cricle of like-minded friends.
as for the blind fanaticism, that's LaRouche trying to psychologically associate himself - in the minds of the youth - to works that he never made any contribution to, nor understood in any meaningful way.
that's how he got u to work for $20 a month ($50 per week was what bruce told me in 2003 - i guess things hv gone from worse to worser).
the youth movement was NOT a good idea that faltered because of lack of money, or some slip into fanaticism. the youth movement was DESIGNED from the start to be narrowly 'fanatical' - and that was what it turned out to be. the platonic philosophy, science, music, etc... was there as a veneer, to keep the youth hanging on, under the illusion that they were getting a 'classical education', etc.
in the 60s & 70s, it was not called the LYM. LaRouche called it the RYM (Revolutionary Youth Movement) ...same game, different name.
i don't think u really knew why the LYM was formed. the old timers kept the movement (and helga's lifestyle) alive thru credit cards. debts were being rolled over, and members took advantage of the real estate bubble to 'cash-out', this kept the org alive a bit longer. but the debts (credit cards, mortagages) could no longer be rolled over any further, so a 'final push' was launched - i.e. the youth movement.
the org went to colleges, got kids to drop out, and work for free - under the illusion that "it's neither as wacked out as the media portrays" and it's "just brilliant amazing stuff, the motivation the passion beyond anything you've ever seen in day to day life".
they milked you over a period of time - to help repay their credit card debts.
maia, u may be out of the movement, but until u see it for what it really was - NOTHING but a scam - u still have some distance to go.

 

maia (maia)
03-09-2005, 09:29 PM
It's not very easy finding a devoted group of 20 somethings sitting around reading Plato and listening to Bach. It's overwhelming at first, then you find out, or rather you realize they aren't kidding you can't listen to anything outside of music on the approved list, including Brahms (i get a chuckle out of that) to say the least. The explanation being that they want you only to live at your highest level. My feelings on it are still changing a bit bipolar at times, I got out, but there is still part longing, part anger, mostly for the kids, some just barely 18, who want to change the world, and end up getting sucked in.
I suggested many times while in the LYM as someone else in this message board also mentioned, about doing poetry readings, getting involved with local troupes and guilds. getting involved with various creative communities, using the studies and the music and drama, not just to sell lit or to push politics, but to lift up people with no agenda involved. That's what I was hoping for when i got in, that was the vision I had. My thoughts as why I see it as amazing, is more the potential, a bunch of kids getting together to study improve themselves and go out and make a difference in the world... bring smiles to people, not making them avoid you on the sidewalk. Often we would be deployed right across from the Jesus people and a few homeless people. We were just making asses of ourselves most of the time, part of the usually sidewalk freak show you can find in any major city be it L.A. or wherever. So ther is a deep sadness for the power of what could be a bunch of youth going out and changing the world, and maybe it's foolish but sometimes I hope that when Lyn dies, it will morph into that. There are some really beautiful souls and gifted minds in the LYM, some really rotten people too, that just are after the power, I was one of the souls who really wanted to go out and make a difference and all I can say it's mix of emotions of disappointment, that is at times a bit haunting.

 

angel_hair (angel_hair)
03-09-2005, 10:27 PM
maia, may I ask what year did you got out from LYM and what triggered it that made you finally call it quits.If you know of somebody that just got out pls I want to hear their story .
BTW where are you Drew ?
Michael Winstead you are so quiet.I sent you an email at larouchefor2004@yahoo.com did you receive it.
frank

 

neoprocrustes (neoprocrustes)
03-09-2005, 10:37 PM
I never went beyond the tables so I don't know much about the inner workings of the orginization, but I think the main problem for me was the rigidity fo their beliefs.
Like, if they wanted to conduct lectures on subjects such as classical math/music to enrich the education of other college students then I would think they were awesome.. and even if their ideas weren't as amazing as they claimed them to be they wouldn't be hurting anyone.
However this is not how they operate. They push their beliefs into you in a sort or peer-pressure environment, and are not happy until you drop out of school and devote your life to them.
They believe only what larouche says and everything that he says. Questioning of Larouches beliefs is not permitted. When talking to them at the table you are not allowed to do questioning.. only they are with their "socratic methods".
The example in my case was:
-I see their sign "Is your math teacher an occultist?"
-I come over and talk to the guys... the guy with the sign doesn't seem to know what he is talking about and so calls over his friend. The guys quickly try to change the subject away from math... into economy, or art, or history.
-In the end they never really prove anything about math to be wrong but rather focus on how they would start with different axioms or something (honestly they were not clear at all about this). Never mind that with our existing math we hvae done amazing feats of engineering etc...
It is easy to focus on this like "What is a point?"... "What is pi?" and these are even good things to learn about...I would be cool if they said "we feel that mathematics education in its goal to churn out engineers has rushed ppl through the basics too fast and not explained carefully some subtle points"
But they don't say that... they say that math teachers are occultists delibritely trying to hurt students or something.
And so in the end their message isnt about how to improve the mathematics program but rather just an attack and a "Larouche will make everything alright" message....

 

neoprocrustes (neoprocrustes)
03-09-2005, 10:46 PM
I wonder what the larouchies reactions would be to this transcript... could they honestly read it and still be 100% devoted?
I can totally see how someone would get wrapped up from a encounter on the street but I would think boards like this one would soon diffuse their fervor.
I mean are they realy not allowed to even read forums on the net? not allowed to read opposing views? Do they really believe that all the former members that quit were spys/blocked/whatever.
It seems to me that the machine of larouche is founded on lack of information and that the internet would destroy that bubble....
Like in my case I read up on them after my first encounter... these days wouldn't most people do that?

 

maia (maia)
03-10-2005, 12:18 AM
As far as why I got out, First off I was really lucky, my significant other who wasn't in the org managed to pull me out and helped start putting some sense back into me even while i was still involved, getting me to the point where I could start looking around and seeing the horror spectacle that I was involved, getting control of my faculties again.
one of the things was that It gets a little tiring making a fool out of yourself everyday standing on street corner asking for money like a homeless person spanging (spare changing). Another thing was, watching Lyn on video, listening to him talk... everyone kept saying he was intelligent but he just kept repeating the same things over and over again. When someone would ask him a question he would break into a 20 30 sometimes 40 minute explanation that not only made little sense, but always fit neatly into this, These guys are evil and want to destroy humanity routine. A basic student of sociology or and human studies can tell you, human beings, the majority, and yes their are evil psychopaths in the world, but the majority are not out to destroy the world, the are simply doing what they think is best and well human nature is really freaking complex it can't be nicely packaged into good and evil slots. All he kept saying was, dude X is evil, Dudette Y is a spawn of satan. meh..
While i was in, i saw two things happening almost two different orgs, for one The top down structure of the orginization coming from Lyn i assume, as I had no way of knowing much of what went on in the chain of command, but nevertheless was text book cult, even though at the time I was only realizing it subconsiously. From the ground up though, and I almost think of it as a force, particulary the new members you could say were pushing the org towards reality towads real ideas and real productivity, needless to say, that doesn't last long, the new recruits get swallowed up and merge with the homoginized group think, that or they are kicked out or pushed aside.
The lack of identity among the boomers in particular was scary. Someone like Ted who would literally stalk me to make sure I wasn't doing anything non larouchie. oh and yes, Liz, big mexiacan girl, really really big if anyone here has been in or was in the L.A office. ing psycho. If anyone was having a normal conversation (even about larouchie stuff)she would come in and scream at them to get on the phones. It was her and a number of people like her that made do a double take on the whole thing.
You can't say that your against government austerity measures and bitch about argentina raping their people when you make your own people live on the exact same bread products day in and day out. Work them to the bone, then when you get sick, they tell you that you are blocked, when you complain you haven't got your 20 dollars stipend in over a month and they make you feel awful for even thinking about it.
It's really hard to pin down one thing, it just came down to I guess was the complete lack of concern for the mental and phsyical health of the youth. As I think about it, it makes me cry for the people I met that are still in it. People that I felt really kindred with, some I never got to know, but wanted to, such as Linda Vu (just known as VU) in the L.A. Office, Sunny in the Seattle Office those are the ones I met that were still holding on to their own identities and weren't quite being swallowed up so quickly, VU suprizingly because she had been in a few years, then again I didn't really talk to her that much.
So anyway that's my rant for tonight.
peace and butterflies

 

kent (kent)
03-10-2005, 06:15 AM
i was recruited on the UCLA campus a little more than a month ago. i always keep an open mind, so when they invited me to a meeting, i went along. it seemed pretty interesting. the emphasis on "rigid classical" music and art was intriguing, although kind of overwhelming. the part that scared me off though was the immediate demand for commitment of my time. they wanted me to go to the Cadre School and they wanted me to go to lots more meetings and read Keppler and tons of other philosophy essays.
when i refused to go to a Cadre School, they kept on calling me, trying to convince me that i was wasting my time by hanging out with friends and focussing on school (UCLA).
My recruiter was John-Paul (sp.?), and my primary phone contacts were the afforementioned and a guy named Trey. Any of you guys know these names? Both were very hard to get rid of on the phone. I am so ridiculously glad that i read this forum tonight.
I agree with some of LaRouche's politics, but the Youth Movement is absolutely nuts. I don't think it can be emphasized enough how closely it resembles the Hitler Youth. i'm glad i only went to one meeting.
by the way, this is my real name (lol probably trivial but what the heck)
(Message edited by kent on March 10, 2005)

 

michael (michael)
03-11-2005, 11:11 AM
I got a little excited, I thought we had Drew on the line there for a while, I wish he would come back and talk to us...we really haven't had any fun on this board since Tom deserted us.
I've been absent because there seems to be a lack of impact from this board and others on what's going on with the yoots out there--that, and contrary to Cultular Opinion I don't get paid for doing any of this and I need to concentrate on things that will pay me...and, no joke...somebody recently killed my cat.
But I'll weigh in on a few comments.
Maia, I know what you mean--it's really hard not to get babmboozled by people sitting around and reading Plato together, and waxing philosophical about beauty over beer at midnight after a deployment; in the real world you may never have the opportunity...I had some really good discussions while I was there, some of the best I think...but they were all tainted with a commitment to Larouche, not a "commitment to truth". They were all false. The twitching you mentioned I would see it all the time, I began to recognize it as someone's personality poking its head out and being smacked down by the Larouche persona--or in others stopped by the painful sense-memories of what happened the last time they were honest (In Larouchespeak "when their witch came out").
To all of you with children in the "movement"
just hang on, and keep trying, but someone posted back there that Larouchies "are not going to kill them"...I don't really know about that...I think they're getting weirder and scarier, and I think the Jeremiah Duggan case signals that something is going on--There are several situations I can think up that would have caused that young man to run into traffic, and each one of those situations sounds crazy.
But how many rational explanations can you give for a 22 year old running into traffic???
And its why I think this organization needs to be dealt with in some way, scrutinized more closely. Harmless agitators is no way to descibe them, or as just another personality cult.
And again, I'll ask any of you who might know, post the address of the Larouche office in your area. If you don't want to post it yourself, send it to me at Larouchefor2004@yahoo.com or to michaelwinstead7476@hotmail.com.
I would also like to start a photo project, with pics of card table shrines and Larouchies at intersections, which you can also e-mail to me

 

kent (kent)
03-11-2005, 06:18 PM
Michael,
"And again, I'll ask any of you who might know, post the address of the Larouche office in your area."
4007 Verdugo Rd., Los Angeles, CA 90065-3726
Is that the main one in L.A., or is there another one?

 

angel_hair (angel_hair)
03-12-2005, 10:47 AM
I havent heard from my daughter for over a month now. I gave her this website but I'm not sure if she read the postings here.Please, I welcome your suggestions.I am at the point that I dont know anymore if...I should call her or write to her for fear that she might think again that the only reason why I'm communicating with her is to convince her of getting out from LYM.Although I have learned to cope a little bit with this pain, I am still struggling to get a good night sleep.

 

maia (maia)
03-12-2005, 10:15 PM
Yes that's the main one in l.a, thanks kent, i was trying to think of the address the other dayl. I knew it was verdugo, but couldn't remember the addy.. I don't know of any other's. angel, maybe you could get someone who has contact with the orginization to talk to your daughter. What's her name btw, I might know her was she was in last year? If everyone from the east to west coast didn't know me so well. I would help you out, unfortunatly i'm already marked as a dissenter. and broke all contact with my former friends. I'm sorry to hear your having to go through this. take care

 

angel_hair (angel_hair)
03-13-2005, 08:07 PM
maia, you said" maybe I could get someone who has contact with the organiztion." do you mean someone who is in now or ex-member who is still in contact with the org? Also, if you want to start a group with exmember let me know iven if I'm not one.I console myself by coming here. I am probably the only one here that would read this discussion over again though not its entirety.
On your nest posting include your email addrss.

 

angel_hair (angel_hair)
03-13-2005, 08:27 PM
maia, you said "maybe I could get someone who has contact with the organization".. do you mean someone who is in now or ex-member who is still in contact with the org?
on your next post do include your email addrss.

 

angel_hair (angel_hair)
03-15-2005, 03:39 AM
maia,we all know why majority here want to stay anonymous except for Michael.My daughter is still in there and everybody here knows that there are current members coming here too, we just don't know. People can say who they are.I would really like to talk to you.

 

borisbad (borisbad)
03-17-2005, 03:20 PM
Well it's nice to see that there's activity online again. I've been out of touch for awhile. However, as a former long time member, and one of the "boomers" that LaRouche keeps referring to, I can report that it appears that LHL is running out of steam according to reports of his last conference where he stopped in the midst of his speech, and hack, Debby Hanania-Freeman took over with no questions. Maybe the cult will come falling down with his passing since, even when I was a member till the late '80s, many of the US members were suspect of Helga even more than of Lyn.
To Maia, I remember long nights involved in Shakespeare play performances, in rehearsing Bel Canto, and reciting poetry which all seemed well and good, although it was often like studying Latin, learning a dead language with no ability to create new culture. And of course, LaR was dismissive of almost all contemporary culture although he had some good things to say at points about playwright Clifford Odets, and jazzman Charles Parker, people from his generation.
But everything was geared toward one simple aim and that was to feed the kitty of the organization. So most of the artsy stuff was nice, and appeared to make some inroads into the arts and music crowd, but was incidental to the main effort which was to sell mags and raise money for Lyn.
And I wouldn't describe Lyn as a presidential wannabe because I don't think even in his wild imaginings did he believe he would be Pres. of anyplace.
As to Drew, I spent twenty years listening to the crap that LaRouche spewed. And while some of the initial goals remained with me, it became clearer over time that LaRouche used these goals to further his agenda. Drew, ask your comrades about all the anti-semitic jokes they used to tell like how many Jews fit in an ashtray, etc. Worst these were usually told by the Jewish members to show they weren't "hung up."

 

neoprocrustes (neoprocrustes)
03-17-2005, 04:08 PM
Looks like I spoke too soon... the're back with new magazines. Guess broadway wasn't ready for their theatre.
Is the orginization really diminishing? They seem to have different ppl at the tables everyday.. scary

 

wanderer (wanderer)
03-17-2005, 10:01 PM
Let me ask you guys something. Why would someone as intelligent and talented as Robert Beltran waste his time with people like Harley Schlanger and Lyndon LaRouche?

 

anon127 (anon127)
03-18-2005, 02:08 AM
the lar org segregates its victims into 2 categories - vip and non-vip.
vips like beltran are handled in a special manner...no one tells them not to hv kids, or why they didn't meet their sales quota for the week, and why they are whining about the $50 a week (or is it $20 a month now?) that the org doles out.
the vips are made to think that they are 'friends' of that old fraud and his german housewife, that they get to share in on behind-the-scenes discussions that world leader hv with and abt that old fraud (which is most difficult to confirm since it is done in secret, so no one says anything, but we tell you cos u are 'special', but u must keep it to yourself). if any vip questions lar's rantings, the handler's trick is (a handler is the person assigned by the org to managed the vip) to say, "oh, that's just the way lyn is", "oh, u know what, i agree with u, but the world is coming to an end so...", or my favourite is.."lyn says it like it is, are u sublime enough to take it".
once beltran's money is all gone, then a different tune kicks in...
as for the non-vip, tough luck...

 

maia (maia)
03-18-2005, 02:26 AM
So i've been at a training all this week (a real conference) and before that the last function I had attended was an ICLC conference. I can say there is a dramatic difference between a cult conference and a real conference. It was the first thing that occured to me, so many things It would be hard to put into words.... it's rather scary though how the orginization is able to convince you otherwise of things you knew before you joined.
They actually had me believing or starting to that the LYM was the only org in the world that was actually DOING anything and all the other non-profits where a bunch of impotent satan worshipers with an Odeipus complex.... Oh so angel if you want to contact send me an email at fallingembers@mac.com the email is only good for about 10 more days, and once I get in contact with you, or any other legit people that wish to discuss or start a group I will refer you to my real email.
I would really like to get some sort of livejournal community going. Maybe I'll just go ahead and create one and post an invite on here. I find there isn't much out there, even as far as forums. I'm not much with what they did in the 70's 80's. but I would like to find out the truth to some things. Being in the lym raised a helluva lot of questions, about self, about the world, about the orgnization,
First off, how the hell can an orginization built on such a premise as it is, reach a point where the youth are recruited burned up and used as fund raisers in an obvious freak show, that doesn't do anything to accomplish the goals it's supposed to, was the org ever serious about it's goals? was larouche ever sane? Why the hell does Robert Beltran work with the org????? I pesronally got acting lessons from him, talk about having a hard time believing you're in a cult when a hollywood actor gives you lessons everyweek. I feel so sad for the kids in the org, some of them are ing geniuses, not very many, but some really got brains behind them and my god to throw it away on some mad mans fund raising scheme, to talk of the dignity and honour and beauty of the human being, and then stand out on the street corner like a freak 8 hours a day getting laughed at, accomplishing nothing but ing a few people off.
Some of the things I learned in the midst of the tragedy that is the LYM will stay with me for life. I would like to continue some of the passionate study of shakespeare, of all the great poets... It's hard saying what exactly made me leave, there were so many factors, but I would have to say it had to do a lot with the very thing they would have me study about. The dignity of a human being, The power of the heart to open the mind.... There were so many contradictions in it all. Even reading back through this, Tom (i knew him personally too which even makes it more depressing) mentioned Schiller talking about the mind being opened through the heart, yet practically in the next sentence ranted on about how the emotions needed to be eradicated. It's so wierd, schiller talks about how reason is no good without compassion and love, yet supressing the feeling state, as they call it, is number one priority. Oh and don't even get me started how the org can say that and then praise Shelley to no ends, when he contradicts everything the org stands for....he would rolling over in his grave.....grrrr. okay that was my rant..... signing off

 

borisbad (borisbad)
03-18-2005, 10:21 AM
Robert Beltran being involved with LaRouche should be no more surprising than John Travolta and Tom Cruise supporting Scientology. I'm sure that they're treated differently than the average member giving "stress tests" in the NYC subway system at 42nd Street.

 

borisbad (borisbad)
03-18-2005, 10:21 AM
Robert Beltran being involved with LaRouche should be no more surprising than John Travolta and Tom Cruise supporting Scientology. I'm sure that they're treated differently than the average member giving "stress tests" in the NYC subway system at 42nd Street.

 

kheris (kheris)
03-18-2005, 08:54 PM
Maia - feel free to post at my LiveJournal community (http://www.livejournal.com/community/the_lr/). You can post anonymously. I must warn you that the 'Beltranistas' may appear to harass you. Take no notice, they are harmless for all their bluster.
Beltran is an adult, he is 50 or thereabouts and he is looking for something that 'feeds' his soul. I don't think the LYM is the answer, but at the moment that is what he is attached to. While he made a crack at the latest ICLC convention about the 'Traveling Bombastics' I haven't seen any evidence that the repertory group is going anywhere. If he joined up with Harley (who actually wrote to me about my Internet comments) in the hope of finding nirvana, then he is going to be sadly disappointed. If he has any idea as to what is really going on with the LYM and all things LaRouche, then he needs to demonstrate the good sense to leave. He hasn't yet. He is either not wanting to look at the truth, or he hasn't figured out how to leave.
I am curious as to how he was presented to the LYM and how he presented himself. Since the end of Voyager he hasn't had much in the way of work. One small independent film and of course The Big Knife, which Harley appropriated into the LaRouche agenda. Robert is a fine actor, but frankly he isn't "A" list, or "B" list at this point. I don't know if he still has any value to LHL or the rest of that crew given that he is no longer being featured, at least not the way he was a year or two ago.

 

wanderer (wanderer)
03-19-2005, 09:01 AM
That's all interesting but you're missing the point.
Robert Beltran, like everyone else involved with La Rouche, is doing this because it suits him in some way. It somehow matches his personal agenda.
If you want to get someone out of a cult, you have to work out what it is they are getting out of it personally. They need to know that they can have that need or agenda satisfied outside of the cult and they need to know why they need to get away from the cult in order to have that need satisfied fully.
Maia -
This experience has taught you a lot about yourself. You have discovered things about yourself that you didn't realise before. You have found new interests and new ways that you want to develop. Bravo! That's excellent! It's called maturing and we all need to do that throughout our lives.
Now that you know what you want out of Life, go out and get it. Find people who are interested in the same things you are. Embark on courses of study, reading, exploring, performing.
But from this time on, you will know how to guard yourself from the frauds who won't do this for themselves and suck the life out of others rather than face their own reality.
The other LYM members are each in it for their own individual reasons. It might be something as simple as wanting to feel intellectually superior to the rest society. It might be as complex as being too scared to face the world on their own and wanting someone to give them the answers so they don't have to take responsibility for working things out themselves.
But you are not going to be able to provide those things for them and you are not responsible for helping them. These are the things we keep hidden from others and they're not going to tell you openly what they are. We only see these hidden agendas by watching someone's actions rather than listening to what they say.
Lead by example. Show your past friends that it is possible to get out and be safe and have a Life that fulfills you without the need to have Lyn and Helga and their cronies dictating how that should be done. (As if their own lives were worth emulating - sheesh ;)).
Borisbad -
People make all sorts of life choices but an older, educated person is usally able to make their own choices without giving way to force. They listen to their own voice and make their own decisions. Lyn has made a life out of forcing people into listening to only his voice. He targets people who don't have the understanding, experience or will to believe in themselves.
None of this is true of Robert Beltran. He has spent a life making his own decisions as an actor. He is doing this for his own reasons and I think it's possible that the La Rouche organisation bit off more than they could chew when they targeted him. He's not a fool and is steadily becoming more popular than Lyn in the eyes of the LYM members.
He's showing the dedication that Harley et al are lacking. He is earning the Yoots respect and the other Boomers are not.
These young people aren't stupid. Even being mentally and emotionally beaten to a pulp won't stop them from seeing the fake when contrasted with the real deal.
Trust me. I've been there. And so have you and you got out.
Part of the reality here is that the LHLs have chosen to take people out of the universties etc., These are young adults who are already educated to some degree and are able to read and analyse. BIG mistake on the LHLs part.
Beltran is working in with what they already know. He's trying to teach them to analyse and think for themselves. He's waking them up to themselves.
Tsk, tsk! That's a big no-no in the La Rouche scheme of things.
Anon -
Beltran can read and analyse. He's read every issue of Fidelio: That's full of LaRouche crap. Trouble is, there's always truth mixed in with the garbage and like a drunk sifting through the trash can, it can be hard telling what's safe to eat and what isn't.
R. Beltran is trying to create something good out of the bad. How long do you think the powers-that-be at LaRouche HQ are going to tolerate that?
He's trying to force them into taking action and into proving their words. They've made a lifestyle out of trying to avoid that. They only want to talk the talk and not walk the walk. R. Beltran has always been someone who talks the talk and walks the walk.
This has nothing to do with how much money he's got or hasn't. If he's going to stay around, he's going to challenge them to put up or shut up and they won't tolerate that.
In other words, the women who originally targeted him and convinced Harley et al that this was a good idea, have failed. They've presented LHL with a loaded cannon.
Angel Hair-
Painful though this is, your daughter is an adult and is making her own choices. Yours is the last voice she will listen to at the moment simply because you're "Mom". The Boomers in the LaRouche movement know that and play on it. They usurp the role of the parents and tell the Yoots that the big, bad world is going to destroy them - better let the LHLs older and wiser heads guide them through. Eventually, rebellion is going to kick back in just as it did with their parents.
Did you raise her to take care of herself and do what is right for herself? Then in her eyes she is doing that and you need to give her the room to explore that. Show her some trust.
In other words, behave differently to the La Rouchies. Tell her that you respect her choices and her right to make them and that you trust her because she is an adult. Let her know that no matter what, you love her and she is welcome in your home and your life.
Learn about the brutality of these parent figures who have taken over your role in her life and then manipulate it. Provide her with everything they are not giving to her. Unconditional love and acceptance. Respect. A safe haven if she ever chooses to make use of it.
No matter what, keep sending her your love and friendship and acceptance, whether she responds or not. Even if you don't know whether she is getting your messages, one day, she will want to know that you kept trying.
There is one thing they cannot take away from you. You are her mother and no matter what she says now, she is wanting you to prove that you love her. She is expecting you to love her no matter what and eventually, she will see the difference between yourself and these pretenders.
How do I know these things?
Because I lost 7 members of my family to various cults and groups who demanded total obedience. I fought to keep friends out of them and assisted in getting all of them out - except for my adult relatives, 3 of whom died in the cults. Another moved on, thankfully and made her own life after seeing what was done to her husband. The Orange People were brutal.
The cults were very active where I grew up and incidentally, we knew about La Rouche in the 70s. He was obviously cultish even then.
wanderer

 

thinker (thinker)
03-20-2005, 08:30 AM
@wanderer
I agree with you on anything you wrote about Mr. R. Beltran.
I was watching the last conference, the drama panel to be correct, and noticed some changes.
I am sure if he goes on with forcing them to finally do some actions (theater group or else), that he will have to leave. Means, before he can say "leaving" they've thrown him out already.
Thinker

 

anon127 (anon127)
03-21-2005, 03:10 AM
"If you want to get someone out of a cult, you have to work out what it is they are getting out of it personally. They need to know that they can have that need or agenda satisfied outside of the cult and they need to know why they need to get away from the cult in order to have that need satisfied fully."..
this is very true. i first joined the cult because i liked reading, and was, and still is, interested in politics, history, etc. i thought that by joining the cult i could learn more abt the topics that i was interested in. at first, i was very much taken in by the cult's trick of "everything u know is wrong". however, as time went by, i noticed that if u really questioned the cult, even beyondn just a few layers, you'll find that larouche invents most of the so-called history, etc. that the cult sells as "truth". and i also found out that most of what the cult claimed to be their "ideas", were actually lifted from books elsewhere. and even that, wanna-be "scientists" like college dropput bruce director can only cover what he copy-pasted at a superficial level. that's when i realized that the larouche cult does not have a patent on "classical" education, and is no needed for any purpose in anyone's life - except for those who like to feel that they are smarter than everyone else in society - bruce director being a case in point.

 

borisbad (borisbad)
03-30-2005, 09:12 AM
To Wanderer
I understand what you say. I don't know about Beltran's role in the org. other than what I read since I left long before. I'm not sure whether he is so actively pursuing his own agenda with the LYM as you seem to indicate. Clearly there were people before Beltran who actually accomplished things who for one reason or another gravitated towards LHL. Fred Wills comes to mind as does Hulan Jack. I think Fred was obviously cynical about alot of what passed for political intelligence in the organization but he never made a clear cut break to the members, rather talking with them in private. So it's hard to tell what Beltran thinks his role is although I doubt he will be setting himself up as some kind of counterpole to HLH and Ms. Zepp. Obviously tho' he sounds like a cultured person, and by that I don't mean simply Hollywood culture but oriented towards the classics, etc.
I was viewing some of the signs attacking Schwarzenegger at some LYM rally posted on their site. Obviously the same lame attempts at humor that I remember in the days of "Feed Jane Fonda to the whales". I guess the real test of his commitment would be to have Beltran go out on one of the LYM rallies and hold up one of their ridiculous posters.

 

kheris (kheris)
03-31-2005, 05:55 PM
I guess the real test of his commitment would be to have Beltran go out on one of the LYM rallies and hold up one of their ridiculous posters.
So far as I know he hasn't in the 4 something years he has been a member. His visible commitment (to those of us outside LA) is to run drama workshops for the yoots and at the conferences.

 

sakurabaka (sakurabaka)
04-06-2005, 08:13 PM
Lyndon LaRouche PAC
P.O. BOX 6157
LEESBURG, VA 20178
800-929-7566
www.larouchepac.com (http://www.larouchepac.com)
April 7 International Webcast - A New Bretton Woods:
Time To Reverse George Shultz's Destruction of Exchange Controls
http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/press_releases_files/2005/050322_webcast_announce.htm
As General Motors, the world economy's largest automaker, faces junk bond status
and the bankruptcy of its $300 billion in debt and the Italian Parliament
debates Lyndon LaRouche's proposal for a New Bretton Woods monetary system,
it's clear that LaRouche has been right about the bankruptcy of the
international monetary system and the need for FDR-style solutions to the
crisis. This will be the subject of a live international webcast of an address
by LaRouche to a Washington, DC audience on Thursday, April 7 at 1:00 p.m.
Eastern Daylight Time.
Help build the audience for LaRouche's webcast - forward this e-mail to everyone
you know who wants to rebuild our physical economy, stop the threat of a global
dark age and fascism, and build a true future for the world and the human
species as a whole. For more information about pre-registering to attend
LaRouche's April 7 address, go to the announcement now posted on the website.
If you can not attend in person, plan to hold a meeting to watch the webcast
live or the archived version later that day. Or call the nearest regional
LaRouche PAC office to find out if a webcast-viewing event will be held in your
area - phone numbers are listed at
http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/z_other_files/contact_us.html .
+---------------------------------------+
| Paid for by the Lyndon LaRouche PAC |
| and Not Authorized by Any Candidate |
| or Candidate's Committee |
+---------------------------------------+

 

kheris (kheris)
04-07-2005, 05:02 PM
Help build the audience for LaRouche's webcast
Are we begging for attention? Is the mere fact that LHL is speaking no longer the draw it used to be? Shucks what a shame.

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
04-09-2005, 01:09 PM
Is the mere fact that LHL is speaking no longer the draw it used to be?
There are a few reasons why we never grew to the mass proportions we wanted to. If you look at the group as a legitimate organisation which grows through publishing journals, interviews and creating joint projects, you will be, like many of us, sadly mistaken.
If however you view the org as merely an ego satisfying collection of acolytes who must worship Lyn's every breath and word or begone, than you are closer to the truth.
The speech given by Lyn is a fairly standard talk he has given for 30 odd years concerning the collapse of the economy, FDR, infrastructure and what ever boogeymen security has found through surfing kook web sites. The speech is the same when we were Marxists except we were more sure that capitalism would collapse. Since that cycle did not generate anything more than radicalised college students with trust funds, we moved to other spectrums.
Take any of Lyn's speeches and you will see how he will piggyback himself into whatever happens to be the trends of the day. Drugs, nuclear power, environmentalists, consrvatives,pro life, anti death, anti new age, satanism, the list is endless because you have to keep on foraging for new people because you just burned out the fundraising list that you have been boiling for a few months.
The death of the Pope wil be used as a piggyback. Lyn and Helga have a picture of themsleves in the Vatican, so that will be on the cover of something. Of course we don't talk about how we encouraged and drove pregnant female members to abortion clinics. Back in the 70's we deployed outside Churches on Sundays leafletting those anti communist Catholics whom we hated. God help any recruit who still wanted to go to Church or Temple. That was verboden. We published so much stuff on every conceivable conspiracy of the Church that your head would spin. Opus Dei, the Knights of Malta, Cardinal Ratzinger, P2 Masonic Lodges. The truth is that we lifted volumes of materials from a book called "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and other authors and created own mythology of how the world has fought between good and evil.
Of course these factions fought over Lyn's strategic importance which was the ruse to explain why our phone calls were never returned. Out of this you tie in the ADL to the Knights of Malta and the Queen of England. What do you get from this? Why a new assasination plot which requires a few hundred thousand more for the security budget that members never see. Only the liquor stores and the salons for Helga and her dogs will know where the money went.
Now back to the webcast. So you take this basic talk and add whatever seems to be on the front pages of the major Newspapers. SS reform, terrorism, the dollar, what ever fits. Declare that humanity will die unless the fill in the blank Larouche Plan is implemented. Tell everyone that you are in the middle of everything, but don't tell the full story.
So you talk nice about the Martin Luther King, but don't mention the secret dossiers we did on the anti Apartheid groups that I heard we did for the South African Government. Don't let a copy of the "Racist roots of Jazz" campaigner show up which claimed that Black music was inferior and some Jews hoisted it upon unsuspecting negroes 70 years ago.
If you have members in the audience, you must make it clear to them that you are doing all of the work and the members are all blocked from really getting the Larouche Plan implemented. Throw in a few dozen names of historical figures and proclaim that you know what all of their problems were and only you know what the secret reasons are behind their mistakes. Do this with an audience of tired college drop outs and it is impressive.
For the real secret in the web cast, go to the last 2 minutes. Watch as they scan the audience and turn the volume up. There you will here the Batimore leader Debra Freeman (why does she still use Freeman?) yell:
"Now everyone get back to work!".
Which means "get your asses back to the card table shrines and make quota for the day. Or you will be seeing me in the office later that night"
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

anon127 (anon127)
04-19-2005, 07:15 PM
cardinal ratzinger just made pope.
must be another conspiracy...
another round of leafletting for the yoots...

 

dave72 (dave72)
04-20-2005, 01:23 PM
I was in the Larouche group back in the mid 80's. I have to admit that I was never put through any kind of a brainwashing session. I was quite happy to delude myself into thinking that I was part of an elite group that was going to save Western Civilization from its demise. Even when I was in the group I thought that many of the wilder theories were kind of silly. I kept it to myself however. The rationalization that I used to keep myself going was that, even with all of it's problems, there was nobody else out there doing anything close to what we (Larouche group) were doing. That worked for a bit but after awhile all that I'd remember "doing" on any given day was begging for money. I still asumed that we were having a big effect because of all of Larouches connections with world leaders or something. By the way, when one of the members once questioned our local leader why none of the predictions of doom were coming true he said that was because WE were keeping them from happening and now the enemy is more freaked out than ever and we must fight even harder ( ie raise more money ). I'm not sure what advice I would give to a family member of someone who's joined Larouche. I just burned out on it and left on my own. My family kept the door open for me and they never bugged me about the whole thing.

 

anon127 (anon127)
04-21-2005, 11:56 PM
brainwashing comes in many forms - direct and indirect.
granted -- the larouchies may not have locked up someone in a cellar and injected drugs into the person.
however, systematically feeding a person lies, in order to manipulate him or her sounds very much like brainwashing to me.
the org would do a "profile" (or would assume that it is doing a profile) on a person, and the game would be tailored according.
"palestine" for the moslems, rooting out closet Nazis for the Jews, blaming WW1 and WW2 on the british for the german audience, etc.

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
04-22-2005, 08:50 PM
I was in the Larouche group back in the mid 80's. I have to admit that I was never put through any kind of a brainwashing session. I was quite happy to delude myself into thinking that I was part of an elite group that was going to save Western Civilization from its demise"
Dave, you answered your own question. For some, being outside the org seems different because you are still in the real time world. The psuedo intellectualism we had which encompassed the arts and sciences with politics seemed very unique.
As one fully joins the LC and starts the endless treadmill. There is no end to the lunacy, just your ability to judge and question the lunacy. In the 1970's our enemies were the CIA who were busy running the world and every other group except us. In the late 70's we saved the world from the Rockefellers. By 1979 we were saving it from Jimmy Carter and the Aquarians. After defeating those forces of evil we took on the British, the KGB, the Satanists, the Drug Lobby, the Jesuits, the Venetians, the Knights of Malta. Some how we always found a way to link the Jews of the dark side to this. There was no end to the Rhinegau awash Larouche conspiracy of the month club.
I do not know which region or local you were in, but do you remember how the fraud was explained? First, we had an NEC member tell us how our chargebacks were statistically within accepted limits. Thus, Kissinger and the ADL were running our bank accounts. Then, we told the phone teams to tell their contacts that "clerical errors" were the culprit and "by the way, could you just let that last double charge slide?".
How did your NC explain the promissary notes and the massive piling of debt which no one in their right mind believed we could pay back. IF you were given 5 bucks a day and you were behind in rent, how were we paying back our lenders? Easy, we blamed the greedy kids of the seniors who signed away their 12 % CDs for our phony baloney 24% promissary notes. Then we created a whole world wide financial warfare plot to keep Lyn from his 1/2 hour TV spots. You read about the "slanders" in the briefing, but , how many members read the actual articles in the magazines and press? Were you aware of how many full time members we had handling the law suits in the National office? Our bookeepers and accountants took off when they saw what was going on.
How were the trials covered in the local meetings? We would be told that "Lyn is organising the jury to save humanity". If you read the daily transcripts you qickly realized that Lyn was nuts and we were running a charade.
How did the NC explain that we sent a whole local in Boston out of the country to Europe to evade a Grand Jury? I found many members who had no idea we did that.
The point Dave is that every day one is in the insular world, every bit of news and entertainment has been run through a Larouche filter. You start your day with the morning briefing , get updates at lunch time and end with an evening class or briefing. Do this 7 days a week for a few years and your standards of reality will be quite shaken.
LYM members today were born when we were sending huge gobs of money to security sink holes and scam articts who took us for millions. To this day I find out about another person who scammed Lyn and security by promising to put Lyn in contacts with "the Elites". We in turn took in millions by reneging on vendors and loans. At the card tablke shrines we were joking about how we were selling subs for publications which were never going to be sent out.
That reminds me of how we created a big org mobilization over the magaznes and paper not being printed or mailed. Kissinger and the US postal service were involved. We had the ADL and the St. John the Divine Cathedral involved in that. The truth was that we diverted money to Europe and other places and did not pay the printer and the post office for several weeks. All you heard about the plot against us. The plot ended once we wrote the Post Office a check.
It is sometimes hard to do this, but, try to remember the inhumane and cruel things you saw done to your friends 20 years ago. Then ask yourself if it is something you would put anyone through today. I still shudder at what I saw people go through and wonder if they recovered their lives.
xlcr4life

 

neoprocrustes (neoprocrustes)
04-25-2005, 11:28 PM
As much as I despise Larouche's orginization for convincing kid to drop out of college (and thus forfeit their futures), I unfortunately(?) remain intrigued with his ideas.
Forgetting La Rouche's crazy dollar-a-day slave squad, what are some of the issues with his philosophies?
I can only comment on the math stuff (which I find faulty in some instances but correct in others... however that doenst mean the current math being taught is wrong...)
Rereading this I see there is little debate on the issues. I am like 99% anti-larouche at this point... but I would like some reassurance that his ideals too are crazy, and not just his orginizations. (and if not crazy than at least un-attainable)
Rest assured I would never throw away my degree and squander my life at a table... but I am curious to learn of the flaws in their arguments...

 

dave72 (dave72)
04-26-2005, 03:37 PM
Larouche's ideas and his organization are two entirely different things and need to be looked at and judged separately. As far as the man goes, some of his ideas may be right and some may be wrong. Some of his ideas are very interesting and some seem a bit looney. Nothing wrong with any of that. There are a lot of interesting people with interesting ideas .
His organization exists independently of his ideas. It fits most or all of the standard definitions of a cult. When you are a full time member you are encouraged to and quickly become separated from your family and friends. Your lose outside feedback and your sense of judgement begins to drift. You become convinced that ones only chance of a worthwhile existence is as a full time member of Larouche's organization. If your family tries to convince you to leave, you are told that they have been contacted by agents of Larouches enemies. You doubt this at first but after awhile you believe it. You develop a built in "Larouche filter" whereby everything you read points to Larouche being right. Schiller's Aesthetic Letters ? They're about organizing of course ! It is a closed, self- reinforcing group. To use Larouche terms, there is no room for a "higher hypothesis" ie. "maybe we're wrong here". There is only Larouche's "hypothesis of the higher hypothesis" which is just a code for Larouche's divinity. It is a way of saying that somehow he's transcended science itself and he can create any hypothesis he'd like on any given day and it is correct and need not be tested.
That is what is wrong with the organization. When people debate about whether or not Larouche is an antisemite, it always seems besides the point. If he isn't, does that mean we should all join the organization ?

 

dave72 (dave72)
04-28-2005, 10:59 AM
My experience in the Larouche movement was perhaps a little unique. During the time I was a member, the quota for the organization was about $600 k per week and was often met. On several occasions I remember being called back to the office from the airport or kmart on Saturday afternoon because we made quota. Then we would sing. Larouche was on a vibrato kick at the time so we all sang like we were under water.
My stipend was $100 per week and was always paid out. I didnt have a credit card and my name was not on a lease or anything. When I left the org I had somehow saved up some money and was getting a little fat. Larouche was on a red meat kick so we were all eating hamburgers.
I kept may doubts to myself and didnt argue with the local leaders. I think they assumed that I was completely "in" so they never bothered to really work on me. It seemed to me even at the time that some people were more brainwashed than others. The leaders seemed more abrasive and dogmatic at the regional offices than the national office.
I was indoctrinated in the organization enough that I wasnt bothered by the financial indiscretions. The two rationalizations I used were " this a war and were saving these peoples lives " and "the banks are going to collapse anyway so none of this really matters"
We campaigned to have a Nuremburg tribunal for the bankers who were commiting crimes against humanity. The organization made it very clear that these people would be publicly hanged. One has to imagine the taliban-like scenario of this actually being carried out.

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
04-30-2005, 06:14 AM
Dave, the reason you had it a little better than other regions was because the former NC Will Wertz went to the National center to begin to codify his future of committing crime for Larouche and sharing his cell with Larouche.
The NC that replaced him was much more humane in not trying to abstract every last ounce of flesh and blood from the members like most of the remaining dead enders. That NC eventually came to his senses with his wife and left many years ago to better things. Needless to say, their offspring are not dollar a day slaves at a Larouche card table shrine.
Thanks NeoP for that insight. In the Midwest regions we made money in the late 70's by selling anti Carter, Kennedy and Jane Fonda bumper stickers. We also made a fortune selling paper targets of Khomenhi while US Hostages were in Iran. Afetr breathing in car fumes and standing in traffic islands all day, the field hands started to sing a song they made up. We called in "Buck a light Jones". Things evolved so that if you did really good outdoors, we moved you to indoor air conditioned airports with the card table shrines, where we now worshiped Nuclear Power and placed the books with Larouches picture in milk cases under the table, hidden by our signs to "Feed Jane Fonda to the whales". We often had to convince the members that unlike the Krishna who were also at the airport annoying people, we had a noble cause, besides free rent and no wages. I often commented that if someone came up to Wertz and Larouche with an offer of slaves, they would turn them down as being too expensive.
AT the airport tables we always ridiculed solar energy and soemthing called "appropriate technologies" for very poor areas. You see taking a third world country out of poverty required "The Larouche _____ plan" and a gazillion goldbacked dollars or a transferable Ruble to do this.
Two members who left the LA local actually developed inventions and businesses which help people in the real world,not the Larouche Bizarro world.
One guy went into the roofing business and developed a solar celled roof which generates powere for a home owner or business combined with a new roof.
Another guy developed a small universal fuel type generating plant which can be air droppped in any part of the globe and immediately generate electricity for areas with no infrastructure who can't wait for the latest Larouche plan to save them. I saw both of these things in various science and business magazines.
The 1% of Larouche material you happen to agree with is because of the "Larouche Method", or whatv I call the 6 degrees of Larouche. Take any idea or piece of history that is real, that part you will pick up as rational. Then, you use the 6 degrees of Larouche to create whatever massive master plot that Larouche uses from the conspiracy of the month club. The members never figure out how ridiculous everything is until they leave and have better bearings. The part that is rational is all that the troops are barking at people at card table shrines.
Take the latest LaroucheWackPac releases about the US auto industry. It seems like a nice idea to reconvert auto assembly lines to Maglev assembly lines. We had the same idea back in the 70's when we used to think that the UAW and the auto workers would join us and have Larouche lead a mass strike against our grand conspiracy back then. We had auto plants back then being coverted to what ever trade group we were calling up.
Back then our main enemy was Rockefeller. Somehow Nelson and David Rockefeller were conspiring to both shut down US auto plants and speed up plants to make more cars. Rocky (Nelson and David, not Stallone)was using methadone to drug the auto workers to work faster in Lordstown Ohio GM plants. The Detroit workers were to then be relocated to Colorado to work as zombies for the Rockefellers at his slave labor shale oil and tar sand fields. Under the influence of methadone, US workers would no resist this be transported via the "Humphrey-Hawkins" slave labor retraining bill. Back at Lordstown, the UAW workers would be replaced by former welfare mothers and inner city methadone users . In the middle of this conspiring, Rocky's banks conspired to bankrupt every US city to consolidate their power. Oh, the world economy was going to crash and we were going to save humanity from falling for Rocky's world wide conspiracy. Back then Rocky ran drugs, not the Queen of England.
Whew, I am tired just trying to type that. Our previous paper was called "New Solidarity", look at old copies of that and you will see that all we do today is just swap out Rocky with some new boogey man like the IMF, World Bank, the British, The KGB with Jews somehow always sprinkled in all of this.
And that is why you always make sure that current LYM do not know LC history while the LC dead enders do not bring it up. Both sides will still be in the headlites when the money Larouche has allegedley stashed off shore is fought over by his ex wives, off spring and Helga. Helga has the inside track in this. I myself do not think that there is a vast Larouche fortune as way too many con men shook down larouche and security, we spent more on lawyers then what we were charged with stealing in some cases and Helga has expensive tastes. One cross Atlantic air trip for her dogs was 5,000 bucks.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

anon127 (anon127)
05-04-2005, 01:31 AM
the org does have some slush fund stahsed away. will wertz's wife -- marianna - had to undergo heart surgery, and the org got her the best doctors at some top hospital in washington d.c. it's not cheap to undergo open heart surgery at a pricey hospital. for others in the org, if u get sick, the org tells u to get out. since will and marianna are ("were" in the case of marianna) part of the NCLC/ICLC oligarchy, money was not a problem.

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
05-05-2005, 05:10 PM
I am passing along the following email which I received a few days ago. This takes me back to the 80's when we would use time to outlast any bad press we recieved. All of us thought that the only people who got nailed with our primisarry notes were some local contacts. Most of us were floored by how many people got hit for nearly a million dollars! We were giving out 5 bucks a day to the field hands when the Feds said the we took 34 million bucks! Needles to say, we had a hard time believing it since we were broke and knew nothing about the 5,000 dollar a trip Helga dog shipments and the bottomless Rhiengau bottles. I hope some of the yutes have access to a computer to see what they are part of. A few words could make a big deal from the many visitors this site has.
_________________________________________________
Concerning the killing of Jeremiah Duggan, a British national, in Wiesbaden German on the 27th March 2003. German File no.......File 4437 UJs 56676/03 and refer to your reading of the website
www. Justiceforjeremiah.com
Any one who has concern over the irregularities of the German Police in the investigating the death of a young man during a Larouche run conference can assist the family the following way.
Emails, faxes and letters showing your concern and reasons why a thorough investigation should be undertaken is very important in the family's struggle against a millionaire and his cult. Information based on your knowledge of the groups activity over the years is very important to people who do not have knowledge of how the Larouche world operates and the 40 year trail of broken lives , hate and harm.
Anyone who reads this forum knows more than most people about the group and can make a huge difference. Read the justiceforjeremah.com web site for press coverage and what this family is up against. The writings of the group which portray Jeremiah's mother as part of a world wide conspiracy with Dick Cheney and the British to deny Larouche a victory in the US 2004 election would be laughable if not for a dead young man on the side of the road in Wiesbaden.
Email this list to other people you know who are familiar with the larouche world to also assist.
Baroness Ludford
Liberal Democrat MEP for London
London Office
36 St Peter's Street
London N1 8JT
Telephone/Fax: 0207 288 2526
email: sludfordmep@cix.co.uk
Website: www.sarahludfordmep.org.uk (http://www.sarahludfordmep.org.uk)
Baroness Symons
c/o. Andrew Gaskell or Stephen Durrant
Consular Assistance Directorate
Foreign and Commonwealth Office
Old Admiralty Building G/111
London SW1A 2PA
Fax 0207 008 0112
Email: stephen.durrant@fco.gov.uk
for the next week only andrew.gaskell@fco.gov.uk
UK Attorney General Lord Peter Goldsmith,
The Attorney General's Office,
The Legal Secretariat to the Law Officers,
Attorney General's Chambers,
9 Buckingham Gate,
London SW1E 6JP.
Tel: 0207 271 2422
Fax: 0207 271 2430
E-Mail:
lslo@gtnet.gov.uk
UK Solicitor General
The Rt Hon Harriet Harman QC MP
Solicitor General
House of Commons
London
SW1A 0AA
Tel: 0207 219 4218
Fax: 0207 219 4877
Email:
harmanh@parliament.uk
Human Rights Forum a Network of German Human Rights Organizations Forum Menschenrechte
Haus der Demokratie und Menschenrechte
Greifswalder Straße 4
10405 Berlin
Contact: Agnes-Lisa Wegner
Fon +49.30.4202.1771
Fax +49.30.4202.1772
http://www.forum-enschenrechte.de/english/index.html
Amnesty International
USA Amnesty International
5 Penn Plaza - 14th floor
New York
NY 10001
USA
Telephone
+1 212 807 8400
Fax number
+1 212 463 9193\1 212 627 1451
E-mail admin-us@aiusa.org
admin-us@aiusa.org
Thomas Matussek
German Ambassador
Email:
Anboffice@german-embassy.org.uk
He would pass on your letter to relevant authorities in German Government if asked.
Anboffice@germanembassy.org.uk
Herr Spiegel
info@zentralratdjuden.de
Zentralerat der Juden in Deutschland
Leo Baeck Haus
Tucholskystr.9
D – 10117 Berlin
0049 30 28 44560
Head of the Jewish Organizations. Speaks fluent American English.
info@zentralratdjuden.de
Henry Grunwald
Board of Deputies
Info@bod.org.uk Also Head of Jewish Board of Deputies.
info@bod.org.uk
Metropolitan Police Authority
Metropolitan Police Authority
10 Dean Farrar Street
London
SW1H 0NY
Tel: 020 7202 0202
Fax: 020 7202 0200
Chairman: Duvall membersservices@mpa.gov.uk
020 7202 0184
Metropolitan Police Commissioner since Feb 2005
Sir Ian Blair,
Metropolitan Police Commissioner
New Scotland Yard
Broadway
London SW1H 0BG
Tel: 020 7230 1212
Fax: 020 7230 4276
Email: new.scotland.yard@met.police.uk
The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC)
68 Lombard Street
London EC3V 9LJ
Tel: 020 7868 1686
www.ipcc.gov.uk (http://www.ipcc.gov.uk)
Email: enquiries@ipcc.gsi.gov.uk
Contact the Independent Police Complaints Commission at:
90 High Holborn
London, WC1V 6BH
Tel: 08453 002 002 (local rate)
Email: enquiries@ipcc.gsi.gov.uk

 

dave72 (dave72)
05-08-2005, 07:56 AM
Helga's friend Renate Mueller used to travel with her dog as well. I remember it running around the DC office and didn't know what to make of it. I wonder if the org was paying $5k a trip for her also.

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
05-10-2005, 03:53 AM
"Helga's friend Renate Mueller used to travel with her dog as well."
Lyn and Helga fell in love with the SST jet. Of course when you travel with all of the mythical plots in your head you need a small army of security gofers. More money was spent on the dog then on the organisers at the JFK or Dulles card tables shrines.
Try to read Washington Post articles from the mid 1980's.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/cult/larouche/main.htm
The world's greatest economist had us spend over $150,000 on a swimming pool and horse riding construction on property we rented to make Helga comfortable.
What is so funny being a Yute today is that the Yutes were in diapers when we were living the life pulling in millions through our promisarry note hustles. The org can recycle countless materials for them while hiding most history of the LC from them. When I was in, unless you were in security, you never saw those Wash Post articles or read about any of the elderly who were left destitute after we got through with them. There was no web to find articles and a story was created about every member who ran away from the madness. Even the trials were rewritten in a way which Orwell would smile at.
The 5K figure came from someone who once saw travel reciepts and saw that we had an emergency dog(s) shipment. I would venture that more money was spent on Helga's horse's horse shoes than members spent on their own shoes.
Seeing the cheap Kmart shoes field hands wore was always a part of the Bizarro world life style. You would try to make a little more than quota and swipe some cash for a trip to the discount shoe isle. What makes it Bizarro is that Lyn used to always write about "The Goodyear Welt" in NS centerfold as the basis of a quality shoe while the field hands had the "Blue Light" welt construction.
If you were in colder climates, the warmer dressed members usually had parents they could ask for clothes. Of course eye brows were raised when you strolled in with new boots and a parka.
This gave the local NCs an idea. During the early presidential campaigns we wanted to take advantage of federal matching funds. Members were told to call their parents with a medical problem like a cavity or some other ailment that could be cured for at least $250.
From what I read today from yutes, having your parents subsidise the cult is part of the life style and weekly budgeting I guess.

 

anon127 (anon127)
05-10-2005, 07:33 PM
Many of the boomers eventually got tired of living like trash, for example Mike Billington. So what they did was, they started maxing out their credit cards, and rolling over cards, etc. credit was cheap, people like Billington was getting either too old, or too embarassed to live like losers, so the boomers decided to be consumers. Which is why, if u happen to visit the houses of some of these boomers, u can find the trappings of a wannabee cultured house -- pianos or some other musical instrument, poster reproductions of classical paintings, books, etc...all on borrowed money.
It became a big crisis in the org when the credit card bills kept coming in despite the hope that it will all collapse and citibank will conveniently be unable to collect the debt.
LHl demanded that everybody reported their liabilities -- in order to weed out the bankrupts (i.e. those who are no longer of any use, and should be discarded).
Billington is one of those heavily indebted ones, along with Kathy wolfe and her husband lonnie (the security act-up).
kathy has to take a day job -- i was told it was working with computers, but i suspect she's doing data entry or customer support. Billington's wife works occasionally at an antique store in charleston -- it's out of town so that no one would know.

 

dave72 (dave72)
05-13-2005, 04:43 PM
I remember reading the Washington Post articles in the 80's and thinking that it was all lies and slander as well as proof that the enemy was really freaked out.
When I left the organization many years ago there were no forums like this and of course no internet from which to gain perspective. A friend suggested an essay by Richard Hofstadter entitled
"The Paranoid Style in American Politics" and I found it particulary enlightening. It was written well before Lar's oranization got underway and is full of perspective on the organizations way of thinking. Its easy to find on an internet search.

 

qaz (qaz)
06-01-2005, 10:56 AM
Hello Maia,
I am trying to figure out what a typical day inside looks like. Where you lived? What do the rooms look like inside this house, when did you wake up, who paid for the food and when and where you ate,what happened next? When you went out to sell papers and where? When did you normally come back and when did you go to sleep? Did you have access to your personal belongings or were they locked up? Did somebody take your personal letters? How often did you go to cadre school or other out-of-city schools/trainings and how long did those last? Did you have personal time and when?
qaz

 

borisbad (borisbad)
06-08-2005, 01:49 PM
For those who might remember, back in the 70s we hooked up with a group headed by Fred Newman called the International Worker's Party (we later called them Intercourse with Pets), which preached revolutionary psychotherapy as discovered by Fred Newman, another cult guru. There was an interesting article on them in this week's Village Voice which I am forwarding to this site. Although they split with LaRouche almost three decades ago, they still get associated with LHL and they share alot of the same biases and slants, although maybe they're more discrete ahout some of their far out ideas.

 

borisbad (borisbad)
06-08-2005, 01:51 PM
This is further to above post. I erroneously left out the article I was meaning to send. See below
Fulani's City Hall Push
The mayor's wacky allies just want some respect—and a city contract
by Tom Robbins
June 7th, 2005 10:33 AM write to us
e-mail story
printer friendly
Related:
TV Gotti's Alleged Cult Doc
by Tom Robbins
Ever since Michael Bloomberg won a squeaker of an election, thanks in large part to having his name on an extra ballot line that didn't read "Republican," the mayor has had an open-door policy at City Hall for the controversial leaders of the Independence Party.
Bloomberg had the party's ballot line in the 2001 race, a priceless gift for a political novice running on the GOP ticket in an overwhelmingly Democratic town. Like other political bosses, the Independence Party leaders have since come calling to collect on the debt. But instead of the standard requests—favors and jobs—the party's officials want something that could be even more costly to the city: They want respect.
The doors at Bloomberg's City Hall first opened, lobbying records and interviews reveal, a few months after the new mayor took office, when the party's two key figures were granted a high-level sit-down. At that April 2002 meeting were Fred Newman, a psychotherapist and alleged cult leader who is the party's main strategist, and Lenora Fulani, a party leader whose comments have been repeatedly denounced as anti-Semitic. They explained to Bloomberg deputy mayor Dennis Walcott and communications director Bill Cunningham that they wanted the administration to take advantage of what they said was their expertise in developmental education efforts. Specifically, they urged that the mayor place after-school programs on his education agenda.
A month later, a Bloomberg panel agreed to provide tax-free status for $8.35 million in bonds that were sold to build a new headquarters for a nonprofit organization controlled by Newman and Fulani that provides after-school activities and theater productions.
Since then, records show, Fulani and other Newman associates have met several times with top City Hall officials, including schools chancellor Joel Klein, to press their agenda. A spokesman for Klein said the meeting was a favor to a former law professor and that nothing came of it. But last year, Fulani took Bloomberg special adviser Ester Fuchs, who is heading an administration task force on after-school programs, on a tour of the new headquarters of the All Stars Project on West 42nd Street, the facility that was purchased and built with proceeds from the tax-free bonds.
Reports filed by James Capalino, a lobbyist for the All Stars Project, show that, in addition to numerous meetings with City Council members, Fulani et al. have met with Fuchs at least four times in the past year. Fuchs said she was "impressed" with All Stars, but could only recall two meetings with Fulani, including the 42nd Street tour. "I met with a huge number of providers," she said.
However many times they met, All Stars representatives say that they presented Fuchs with their arguments about why the group should be added to a list of contractors receiving city funds to provide after-school functions. When a citywide request for proposals was issued this year, All Stars applied. The contracts, part of a massive multimillion-dollar reorganization of the city's after-school efforts, are due to be awarded in September by the Department of Youth and Community Development, which is evaluating the applications.
It is the first time, All Stars officials said, that the group, which was formed in 1981 and has an annual budget of $5 million, has applied for government funding. And while All Stars officials refused to say how much they're seeking in the contract, they said the money was beside the point. Gabrielle Kurlander, the $200,000-a-year president of All Stars, said what her group wants is a place at the table as city education policies are formulated, as well as validation of its efforts.
"We don't need the funding," said Kurlander. "It will probably cost us [more] money to run the program, frankly."
A contract with the city, Kurlander said, would demonstrate to others the worthiness of All Stars' programs. "It would be part of the city recognizing that this is an important new model for development that has been pioneered over 20 years when it was privately funded, and now it is one of the best approaches," she said. "It would be the city validating all of our work in this field."
For some, that's a chilling prospect.
"Someone should really question whether public money should go to support them," said Joel Levy, regional director of the Anti-Defamation League, which has long criticized Newman and Fulani for alleged anti-Semitism.
The ADL blasted the group anew in 2004 after All Stars opened its new Castillo Theatre on 42nd Street with a play co-written by Newman depicting the causes of the 1991 Crown Heights riots. The play, Levy said, badly mischaracterized events. "These kids become unwitting vehicles for Fred Newman's distortion of history," he said.
Despite those criticisms, last month, Bloomberg wrapped himself even tighter in the Independence Party banner, agreeing to be its candidate for re-election. The extra ballot line is intended as a fallback position for all those pro-Mike Democrats who might otherwise balk at pulling the lever for the party of George W. Bush and Tom DeLay. But it remains a politically risky venture, one made all the more so after Fulani's recent public refusal to back away from remarks she made in the 1980s that Jews "had to sell their souls to acquire Israel," and "function as mass murderers."
Bloomberg eventually denounced her comments as "despicable." Since then, he and Cunningham, who now works for the campaign, have fended off critics by claiming that Fulani is just one of the party's 90,000 members and by pointing out that George Pataki, Charles Schumer, Eliot Spitzer, and even two of Bloomberg's Democratic mayoral rivals have all made the same devil's pact he is now charged with, accepting the Independence line as a kind of political insurance policy.
But as the All Star Project's ambitious City Hall lobbying efforts show, it's a lot more complicated than that for the mayor.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bloomberg is only the most recent in a long series of political partners for Newman, who has danced over the past three decades with, among others, the paranoid Lyndon LaRouche, Libyan strongman Muammar Qaddafi, Black Muslim zealot Louis Farrakhan, and archconservative Pat Buchanan.
In fact, the alleged anti-Semitic remarks that got Fulani in trouble recently stem from the days when she and Newman were still touting the likes of Farrakhan and Qaddafi. (Fulani even visited Libya in 1987 to protest American attacks; a year later, 270 people died when Pan Am 103 exploded over Scotland, a terrorist act now known to have been carried out by Libyan agents.)
But the more enduring strain of criticism aimed at Newman over the years comes from a different, even spookier direction. That rap holds that ever since Newman started out on the Upper West Side in the 1970s with a handful of ardent supporters, he has used a homemade brand of psychotherapy to pull vulnerable people into his orbit and eventual cult-like control.
Newman calls his approach "social therapy," a creed that links personal advancement to activism. Former adherents have long claimed that participants in Newman's therapy are often urged to take part in his other endeavors, ranging from All Stars to the Independence Party. The therapy practice, dissidents say, provides both a steady income stream and a fruitful recruiting base.
Kurlander, a former actress who lives with Newman and other organization members in a Greenwich Village townhouse, denied the cult allegations but acknowledged that the All Stars Project is closely based on Newman's theories.
"We do use the social therapeutic approach," she said. "Dr. Newman, who is the co-founder of All Stars and our artistic director, is the creator of that approach and has trained our staff in it. It is hugely successful, and tens of thousands of young people have benefited from it."
Asked if she'd ever discussed the All Stars approach with Bloomberg, Kurlander said she'd "chatted with him informally" at a recent All Stars fundraiser at Lincoln Center. "He is extremely involved in education and obviously a very philanthropic man," she said. Had she ever hit the mayor up for a contribution? "Not yet," she said.

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
06-11-2005, 11:34 AM
"Hello Maia,
I am trying to figure out what a typical day inside looks like. Where you lived? What do the rooms look like inside this house, when did you wake up, "
Qaz, I hope you are just interested in a synopsis of life in the cult, and not an invitation for your life to be controlled by delusional people.
Your typical day depends on where you are in the food chain and what invented threat and mobilization is dreamed up to keep you so busy that you never actually read the stuff you hand out/sell or question the madness.
Your private space is something you try to hide from prying eyes and ears. But, since you are in a communal living arrangement, that never happens. What the org discovered when people had time off is that the members did things like contact family and do things outside of the group. You were highly discouraged from going home for holidays or such. If you were Jewish, then every bit of suspician was placed upon you and you were ridiculed for going soft while the world is a split second from being engulfed in thermonuclear war.
The members who left and returned to school or work often had quite successful careers. What I think is the difference was that they often had part time jobs or interests which they kept alive. Around the country you can often see a thirty year veteren dead ender who lost every shred of self worth and really has no where to go while in their late 50's.
Your meals are often fast food or stuff you can squeeze together for a few bucks a day. You do lower your standards quite a bit in this. One can often does a double take when you see a former friend of years manning a card table shrine and the person is wearing the same clothes from 20 years ago. The newer members will often look cleaner and more fasionable, until a few nuclear war mobes take place and you are running 24/7 in this lunacy, not knowing what day it is.
Most members who get a check from their parents try to hide the cash from the leaders since there will always be a cash crisis. The group has an impressive history of shaking down its members for every last nickle and dime.
Lets face it, the cult will create an environment so controlled that long term members have no trouble sending their own kids to card table shrines as soon as they can leaflett. Of course, the leadership kids often were sent to college.
Do you think Lyn's 50 year old son is part of this crazy house? After having his minions send pregnant female members to abortion clinics to save humanity, Lyn, many years later turned stomachs when he proudly proclaimed his becoming a grandfather.
You yutes have a lot of history to read. While you were being formed in the womb, Lyn was living the millionaire lifestyle while the members were starving and shaking down old people .
For a typical field hand, you rise based on your deployment. Most of the time we met in the local office, got out briefings off the copier and took off. People doing specific leafletting or long trips to sites took off early to catch the morning rush hour. You loaded up the lit in the broken down ininsured death trap the night before, before the evening briefing that took you to midnight.
You called in lunch time to get an update about basically three things:
-Nuclear war was going to break out.
-The world economy was in its final stage of collapse.
-Powerfull members of the Zionist, English,Olympians, Knights of the roundtable, mightymouse were now carrying out an assasination attempt on Lyn to stop his world wide taking of power.
No matter what, your baking in the hot sun or the cold snow or the rain, was paramount to saving the world that day, and the next day, and the next day, and the next day...
The phone team would stumble in around 8:30 or so, the wives of the NC's would come in later for some reason. You got yelled at several times a day since quota was not hit and the three things I mentioned above depend on how much cash you bring in. The wives of the NC's were usually fundraisers and took verbal abuse and an occasional bitch slap in the privacy of their own apt. Occasionally, the beatdown would take place in public, or in an office where the walls would shake from the yelling. I think the idea is that you repudiate your psychosexual potency ala the PSP Campaigner and now motivate the boiling team (fundraisers).
The "support" staff calls people and meets with unsuspecting outside leaders and convinces them to lend their name to some new mobe that Lyn ordered. After there name appears, the supporters get phone calls from other people wondering if they lost their minds by associating with a convicted swindler, tax cheat and world wide cult leader who has trouble with six sided stars.
The intell leaders used to do a lot of research, make meetings for Lyn and then recoil when Lyn goes batty on them in meetings and just wipes out a year of hard work to make your self look rationale.
Presently, the National office basically uses web searches for news, works as part time school teachers, spends time rearanging their credit card bills and drinks a lot to mask the pain they have after spending 30 years with a mad man and not wanting to face the truth. To keep yourself from starving in the N.O., you take on a part time job and hide whatever money you can from those above you. Other N.O. people go on public assistance to feed their kids
Field hands are given a few bucks per week. You hope to develop a good buddy in your deployments so you can sneak a few bucks in cash to supplement the ever decreasing amount you are given.
Security people basically create the endless dark hole of money expenses. Their job is to eat a little better, drink a little better than most people. They also try to mingle with Lyn and Helga who basically use security guys and gals as their servants and liquor barons. Every now and then a real con artist shows up and shakes down the org for money in some type of scam that a gullible Lyn falls for and that members find out years after they left.
Couples are usually with a another person to make the per member housing cost cheaper. NC and NEC types get their own apts. Leesburg people bought their own houses and refinaced them tot the hilt to pay the bills. Single people are thrown together many to an apt while having a revolving door of "guest workers" come in and crash on the couch. If you are lucky, the person you recruited came with a car that you can now use . The basic idea idea to shove expenses onto the new recruits parents and have then pay to keep their son and daughter alive while they are being drained of everything in their lives. The latest story appears to be getting into section 8 housing for subsidised living.
Since you are always in a mobilization to save humanity, your personal living is paret of the problem not the solution. You never have privacy as there is always someone who will spy on you and report you to other people. Why should you read any one else since Lyn solved all of the problems in the academic, scientific, artistic and political universe? Since everything and anything has been deemed inferior by Lyn, you better just read our material since it shows the "secrets" which everyone in the universe has conspired to coverup for ten thousand years.
This really is group think as your life is now in the hands of others. No dissenting opinion is tolerated as it will be viewed as a threat to Lyn and humanity. Every night is a long meeting long into the night where God forbid you did not hit quota or some other thing which now jeapordizes the human species.
If you do not shape up, then you can look forward to both a public humiliation and a private late, late night talking to.
If you become a thorn in the side, then you will be off doing lower tier work, if you really screw up, then guess whose rent and expenses will be postponed to save humanity that month?
This whole circus goes on for years until a member wonders where the last few years of his life went. That is why you have to discourage and attack any friends,parents, co workers or classmates of a member. It is absolutley paramount that your only friends are other members and you look at the NC's and other people as the only people you can trust or confide in. After all, humanity will die if you are not doing all you can.
Why raise a problem if the response you will get from a leader is "How the hell can you be so selfish? Don't you know that a nuclear bomb can fall on us any minute? Lyn is working around the clock to save humanity from folly and you bring this up?
One of the things that is very different from today then when I was in is that one can look up info about Larouche and the Bizarro world on the web. A series like this is often cross posted around the globe.
After a several months of this insular and bizarro world existance, a typical new recruit has had his entire world replaced. There is no outside news media, no outside cultural events, no outside reading, except what is on the daily shcedule. That is one of the reasons why many people have a very hard time leaving the group as they are virtually unemployable as their schooling has been ended, their skills have become outmoded and their social contacts and family have been destroyed.
Very few people are willing to admit that they made a mistake with their life and spent several years with a madman.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

anon127 (anon127)
06-12-2005, 09:13 PM
Dear xlcr4life,
that is one of the best and most truthful summary of the LaRouche cult.
if i might just add a little detail...the dead-enders are pretty hot on the youths..especially the young girls.
the trick is to get these young girls to think that they are with someone more "mature", "moral", "interesting", "philosophical", etc...alcohol also helps to lower the inhibition to such advances.
i was at a conf a few years ago in leesburg. for some strange reason, the old men in the org seems to know the names of all the pretty young members...

 

jamesstjohnsmythe (jamesstjohnsmythe)
06-14-2005, 03:39 AM
anon127
Not only that, the male members of the LYM also hit upon young women and talking about how great the movement is and they should be apart of it. And sometimes they go to the extent to breakup relationships so the woman becomes a full-time member. I remember a female member was talking about why she broke up her ex cause he didn't like the movement and so fourth.
Now if you try to debate them that contradicts what they say while their trying to organize the young woman. They're turn around and talk trash about you and your life.

 

anon127 (anon127)
06-14-2005, 08:30 PM
using "political organizing to save the world" is the only way losers like Mike Billington can ever hope to lay a decent woman.
he told me once : "first you organize them, then you marry them".
while i was in the org, i remembered he often asked me if i got any women to join. at first i thought maybe he was worried that abt the demographics being to slanted. but looking back, i think he was just bored with his wife.

 

jamesstjohnsmythe (jamesstjohnsmythe)
06-15-2005, 12:06 AM
Is Mike Billington a boomer member and what local is he apart of?
I'm more aquaint with the LYM in LA and some from Seattle. When I was organzing with them and alot of times go to their meetings I would notice some male LYM like Mike Vandernat and some others would quickly approach a good-looking woman with their typical "Hi, how are you, good, what do you think of the class..." line.
Mike Vandernat hit upon this one woman(whom I know very well), they started to date. Then at one of the conferences(not sure which one), he made sure they share the same room together. Later on they broke up and an acquantance of mine wanted to know what happened. Mike claimed "He got tired of her cause she was immature". I'd talked to her and found out otherwise.
Getting into women's pants is not the only thing that shows how the LYM are no more than a bunch of High School jocks and cheerleaders, they also play the race card.
People know the Larouche cult is mostly not crazy about people with Jewish and British backgrounds(Jeremiah Duggan prime example). I don't know if ppl know that the Larouchies mostly the LYM love talk to and recruit people with African background more than any other race.
I and a couple of people seen them <u>always</u> around any person with african background. Not only that I also caught them mentioning how great blacks are. In which contradicts LHL's speech that "All men are created equally"

 

anon127 (anon127)
06-15-2005, 07:10 PM
Billington is a boomer. used to do drugs, among other things, but now is currently into alcohol.
he used to be somebody in the org, when he was pulling in a lot of money, especially from selling fake securities.
he hangs out at the national centre Leesburg.
told his wife to take exercise classes cos she was getting too fat.
they hit on "minorities" like blacks cos the cult thinks that blacks hv a chip on their shoulder..and so be easier to manipulate.
The cult tries to pass Lyn off as the 2nd MLK. Gives some good press to Malcolm X.

 

anon127 (anon127)
06-15-2005, 10:57 PM
..btw..do people in the org gets tired of "immature" girls after or before sleeping with them.
i wonder if it's just a attitude problem that Mike Vandernat has, or runs throughout the LaRouche cult.

 

anon007 (anon007)
06-16-2005, 07:48 AM
It runs throughout the whole LaRouche cult. The babyboomers prefer the young girls (19, 20 year olds) for free sex. I wonder what Beltran is doing after he finishes his acting classes and workshops. It's no secret he often hits on the 19 and 20 year olds at his so called Star Trek conventions.
(Message edited by anon007 on June 16, 2005)

 

kheris (kheris)
06-16-2005, 05:05 PM
I wonder what Beltran is doing after he finishes his acting classes and workshops. It's no secret he often hits on the 19 and 20 year olds at his so called Star Trek conventions.
That story is pretty old. I have yet to come across anyone who will verify it is true, although his serious detractors repeat it often. I don't care for his politics but I don't think he signed on with LHL et al so he could chase skirts.

 

jamesstjohnsmythe (jamesstjohnsmythe)
06-17-2005, 01:38 AM
Robert Beltran is not your typical Larouchie, to tell you the truth he's not one of them he just works with the LYM on their drama(and they have alot of it) .
I heard Robert gave a class, and he mentioned "There's nothing wrong in listening to other types of music!" We all know the Larouche cult has a classical music fetish. What does that say about Robert?
If he wanted to hit on 19 or 20 yr old girls then he just hang out the Star Trek Conventions. Then before he knows it, he'll have five or ten 19-20yr old trekkie girls throwing themselves at him.

 

jamesstjohnsmythe (jamesstjohnsmythe)
06-17-2005, 02:58 AM
..btw..do people in the org gets tired of "immature" girls after or before sleeping with them.
i wonder if it's just a attitude problem that Mike Vandernat has, or runs throughout the LaRouche cult.
There's that popular quote: Kill two birds with one stone
If the male members and non member ladies start dating, then she'll be convince to drop everything and join the cult. Within 1 to 2 months after she joined, they break up. And why not get a little sex while the same time helping LaRouche get his 10 thousand youth quota.
But if it doesn't workout like that he wanted then he just dumps her like a bad habit. It's so typical of their arrogance to label ppl who have a backbone for refusing to join.
On rare occasion, the female members do hit up on guys. I wonder if the former members knew this?

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
06-18-2005, 05:57 PM
Jamesstjohnsmythe , let me offer some assistance in sorting through things about the Bizarro world of Larouche.
The first thing to understand is that one can never judge the Larouche org relationship with Blacks, or anything or anyone for that matter, until you examine a few decades of how things work. Since we are dealing with a sycophantic based cadre which no matter how much it recruits, things will always stay the same.
Lets start with a brief history of Blacks and Larouche.
The second thing to understand is that the goal of the group is always the worship of Larouche and whatever happens to be his view of reality at the time. This means that every group or strata contacted is based on gaining a bit of respectabiltity for the cult based on something favorable to Lyn. Each group you target also can provide a few recruits along the way, some fundraising and maybe some warm bodies for a rally or meeting.
We used to joke in the National Office that we have several "Hats" we can put on, depending on who we call and what the purpose is. In a given day, a member can be a a pro nuclear anti environmentalist calling engineer types. These are rational logicians and we quickly found out that they see the whole Larouche logic as phoney baloney and hang up, unless you talk about investing trillions in nuclear power. For the older crowd we relive the FDR days with them. When we ran for president in the 1980's we became conservatives. Few know that we were planning to run Lyn as a Republican. We then switched to being "Conservative Democrats" which allowed us to still fundraise from Republican lists, but also gave us better access to elections . We then dropped the whole US Labor Party gig. When we wanted another slice, we became anti drug warriors. Lyn came from the leftist parties which threw him out as they knew he was crazy, however, Lyn knew that you can get bodies by being on the left side on college campuses. For the 1980's we became right for money calls. Lyn needs more warm bodies for worship, so the past decade you go back to the colleges for young blood.
In retrospect, we never were rationale in any thing we did. The charade was building a mass movement, all we did was build a sect based on Larouche. Many of us stayed in for a portion of what we considered was rationale and overlooked the lunacy. It is the same today and if you studied the Beyond Psych and the emphasis on 18 to 25 year olds, then it all becomes clear. Most of the present recruits were not alive when we had phony brainwashing plots of members and Cuban frogmen assasination teams emerging from the Hudson River to kill Lyn as a way to further increase parania and devotion to the cult.
With Blacks, it depends on what era you are in
Since I am familiar with the last thirty years I will start right about in the mid 1970's.
During the 1970's the country was radicalized to an extent that we had a lot uf unrest in cites and in college campuses. The strategy we had back then was to disrupt all of the leftists on campus and to try to take them over. The leftists figured out that we were nuts and were probably police agents to some degree. In either case we picked up cadre. We attacked the Black Panthers and blacks who attended SWP and Communist party by writing that the CIA created the entire Black ghetto experience through brainwashing and through drugs.
This got us some blacks like Zeke Boyd, a Black Panther member and a guy named Allen Salsibury, along with his brother. With other blacks we had, Lyn decided to take over black rage in the ghettos away from other gorups. We also claimed to people that comedian Dick Gregory was a Larouche supporter. Fast forward a few decades later I am handing the keys to Zeke so he can drive the Bonneville to the liquor store for Lyn's Rheingau drinking bouts. Now you can see Zeke at Lyn's side during conferences. Allen, unfortunatley, had LaroucheCare so he died of prostrate cancer. Allen did a lot of our high level meetings. I think he did meet with James Brown once.
Now listen up cloesely. Lyn countered the leftists organising by going into the ghettos with his own group called the "National Unemployed Welfare Rights org", NUWRO. This was a copy of the local SWP or CP version. While in this drive, Lyn declared that he needs 10,000 black revolutionary YOUTH to take power form the CIA and the Rockefellers. Thus, the Revolutionary Youth Movement, or RYM was born. That is why some of us who have been around look at the current yutes in LYM and have both a good laugh and a cry at the same time. This time, you don't beat around the bush, you worship Lyn right off the bat.
RYM organising became a problem as teaching Beethoven to gang members does not work to well in real life. We had members assaulted, raped and robbed during al of this when white members were not always accepted with open arms in housing projects. I have read of a yute in the LA office who was beaten pretty badly while doing a walking tour in Compton. They still do not care about members safety. I often wondered why that member all of a sudden stopped posting on the old yute web site.
Now the key thing here is that like every member we recruit, you need to destroy and remove any ethnic backround they have and relplace it with an approved backround. The older black members used to be musicians in Jazz combos. Well, you know what happend next. Every thing that was considered "black" was now bad. We even had a Campaigner called "The Racist roots of Jazz" to convince everyone that the only reason Blacks have Jazz is because the Jews (of course) foisted it upon them. Find it on the LYM site.
http://wlym.com/pages/campaigners77-85.html
As we move into the late 1970's, the anti semitic stuff starts brewing and we are now taking to, meeting with and sharing material with Klansman and variious hate type groups and people. DO enough searches today and you will see a lot of Larouche material on these sites. A guy named Chip Berlet stidies these groups and he has more documentation for those yutes interested.
SInce the cities are going down hill, we go to where the money is which is suburbia and begin to make a bundle with our new changes in direction. The past was forgotten, members droopped out who were around when the group was SDS formed, but we now are replacing them with a new batch.
The Anti Drug Coalition work became a gold mine in that it gave is two things, a greta way to make money and a great way to make inroads into the black layers through churches. We had a Black coroner from Philadelphia do speaking.slide shows for us in various cities. Druing this we went from declaring the Rockefellers the drug runners, to the Queen of England and the Zionist lobby/Jews running dope. The blacks may not have had much money, in fact, we often gave stipends to some of those who worked with us, but they opened doors to us in politics and provided warm bodies for meetings and rallies.
This culminated in an early rally for the Schiller Institute in Washington DC where we bussed in 10,000 or blacks for a rally which people were told was going to be about Martin Luther King. When people got there, heads were wondering how come it became a rally for Larouche and Ronald Reagan's Star Wars SDI policy. We had hundred of people marching with placards saying "I have a dream, build the beam". The bus companies are still wondering when they will get paid for some of their busses as Larouche and credit are a dangerous mix. The next rally fizzled as no one was going to get suckered twice.
Later, we had some problems in Leesburg when some of our Pennsylvania tenagers ran afoul during their visit. Checks were written to cover damages I think and that was the end of that idea.
In the 1970's we denounced the Nation of Islam and other Black Muslims as being CIA operations. Now we had conferences and endorsements from Black Muslims. We hit the jack pot with Farrakan as he shared a lot of ideas with Lyn, besides liking bow ties and creating a cult of personality.
Certain sections of the culture will find it easier to blame their problems on a grand conspiracy. You will find this in every race and nation. Larouche, as the founder of the Conspiracy of the month club has something for everyone.
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/adl/larouche-noi/
http://www.publiceye.org/frontpage/911/black_nationalists.html
There is a lot of material on the web that show how Larouche lunacy finds a home in various places where Jews are not welcome.
In the 80's we finally hit upon a formula that worked. We would find former leaders in various parts of the world and call them up. It was real easy to convince them that the reason they are no longer in power is because of some grand conspiracy run by whatever all powerfull cabal which was running thw orld at that time. We would fly the person in for a confernece, pick up his or her bills, take some pictures and set up some type of new charade front group to organise around. Helga probably figured out that the hard sell of Lyn was not going to work all of the time.So the Schiller Institute was born which allowed us to contact people with out the hard sell of a crazed Lyn running his mouth for hours at a meeting with some one. We saved Lyn for later.
Now that you have a former somebody invovolved, you use their name to get in the front door with other people. This worked very well with some one like Amelia Robinson who was handled very, very carefully so as not to scare the hell out her like we did with other people. Very few members knew of the money we were spending in housing, paying stipends and often medical bills of people who were big names for us.
Through some more work we drilled our way into the Black congressional caucus which has yet to figure out how they have been taken in by Larouche. Many people are very suspicious of this because the historical nature of our group has been to infect and screw up other groups with our rantings. We went from having Lyn be a potential Rep candidate to being an albatross of Democratic presidential candidates by our TV shows screaming how Walter Mondale is a KGB agent and how Carter is a zombie of the Rockefellers and the CFR/Trilateral commission. In retrospect, we did more to screw the Dem party than anyone else did. Every group whether it is Farm groups or scientific groups which got a kiss from larouche also got a kiss of death for having no sense.
Like other groups like Scientology or the Moonies or the Newman cult, we would form groups to call people and see what we could get. Satanism, anti video games, inner city violence, anti drug, nuclear power, reformation of musical tuning, Food for Peace, what ever is the target, we can start a group. If you can get a few people for Lyn and some more bodies for the yutes to think that this is real, then you did your job.
Some people stayed with us untill the checks ran dry. Lyn's VP candidate Bevel is a good example. I think we paid for his living expenses and published a book by him. Publishing books is very cheap as a few thousand run done inhouse pays off much more in sealing the deal. Bevel, from what I have read moved on to other places when the checks started bouncing.
Oh, I forgot to mention that we were doing reports on the opposition to Aparthied for the South African government in the 80's as well according to many published reports. Boy, we really are frineds of the Blacks.
Now here is where the fun begins for the yutes.Go to
http://dennisking.org/ and read what was happening when the yutes were in thier gestation periods in the womb.
For fun, ask Debbie Freeman about how she ran her campaign against the head of the Black Congressional Caucues back then? Maybe she could reanact some scenes from her campaign at the next conference and have Sky Shields play Parren Mitchell?
The present Black yutes I am sure would love to hear Debbie tell some old stories about life in Baltimore and other locals when we called every black official we did not like a house nigger. I never knew Congressman Parren Mitchell had to pull a gun on us outside his house.
Other people can also share their stories. Like how we called Chicago Mayor Harold Washington a gay derogotory word and printed up posters of him in woman's clothing. We had a whole routine of using the phrase "Poverty Pimp" in our USLP days when confronted with a black face who held an office and did not return our calls.
The following are other exerpts for you folks to read, and maybe spread to other people. This stuff is very interesting as the the present day yutes have no idea of the anti semitic laundry they are carrying around. The last potential yute who raised questions at a Schiller meeting was named Jeremiah Duggan.
The reason the yutes sing Black Spirituals is perhaps to remind them that they too are fodder for the master in the big house and only have freedom when they escape.
This really is the Bizarro world. Don't try to understand it as a normal organization of people. No matter what the issue, the lunacy will always come to the surface. Kind of like that bug in the first Alien movie.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com
From a multi part series by Larouche watcher Dennis King.
"One former NCLC member recalled a meeting of intelligence staffers last year at which a leading cadre announced that party candidates would soon be "put in office by our 'friends' through vote fraud." When questioned about the propriety of using a method which the party so often condemns this leader allegedly, said, "There's nothing wrong with it-our enemies use it." And. "We don't want democracy-we want a leader. We've got to make Lynn dictator. "
But to obtain a helping hand from its "friends" on the ultralight the NCLC must first demonstrate its political effectiveness. Therein according to our sources, lies the significance of the Freeman campaign and its bizarre aftermath: "Lynn figured he'd show 'Mister Ed' how clever he could be at instigating Jews to attack Blacks as well as their fellow Jews," alleged one former member. And who could be a better target than Rep. Parren Mitchell leader of the Black Congressional Caucus and one of the most liberal figures in Congress? Yet the NCLC leaders faced a delicate problem; they had to attack Mitchell in a manner that would avoid disrupting their growing alliance with the powerful Black Muslims. Thus, the attack was spearheaded against the Baltimore Jewish community, for whom Mitchell was said to be a "lackey". In other words, anti-Semitism was used as the cover for agitation against Blacks.
Blacks in Mitchell's district were appealed to on the basis that Mitchell and the "Zionists" were involved in the heroin traffic. And Freeman stated in a television appearance three days before the election: "Parren Mitchell, and more important the evil forces that control Parren Mitchell, will desperately try to prevent the population from having the type of leadership I represent. For them keeping errand boys like Mitchell in office is a life and death issue. " This fight against the "evil forces" was escalated after the election. when Freeman wrote in New Solidarity: "Even before B'nai B'rith was founded, wealthy Jewry...who were centered in Baltimore profited largely from traffic in black slaves. They made ... Baltimore a notorious pro-slavery stronghold of British treason against the United States...The special significance of the leading Zionist families in Baltimore today is not just that they are still the descendants of slave-traders and traitors, but that they still hold the philosophical outlook that permits trade in human commodities! It is time to put an end to this moral degeneracy."
Freeman attempted to soften the message for Baltimore's Jews by announcing that "I am of Sephardic Jewish extraction. This Judaic faction has been persecuted and victimized for far too long by Zionists... "(In fact, this was a reference to a key doctrine in Lyndon LaRouche's Secrets Known Only to the Inner Elites: the distinction between the "Whore of Babylon" Jews who practice usury and the Sephardic Jews who can allegedly be used to further the USLP conspiracy for world domination.)
Freeman's attack on "Zionism" in defense of Blacks was really, on the most basic level, an attack on the Black Community. This was shown, first, in the election returns: Even New Solidarity was forced to admit that most of Freeman's votes came from white working-class neighborhoods, not from the Blacks she had presumed to champion. The white voters (who gave Freeman a very good showing in their precincts) may have listened to some of her anti-Semitic rhetoric. But the main thing they picked tip was her virulent attack on a Black incumbent.
Indeed, the true racial attitude behind the campaign finally came out in a hysterical tirade by Freeman after the elections, printed in New Solidarity under the heading "Parrett Mitchell, House Nigger." We quote: "What did it take to transform a highly skilled population into ghetto residents...! It took a house nigger. It took a house nigger who was willing to run west Baltimore like one big plantation. In Baltimore, when you need a house nigger you go to the Mitchell clan."
The NCLC's "friends" were apparently so pleased with this dual at tack on Blacks and Jews that the LaRouche group has decided to make it an ongoing feature of' their electoral activity - for instance Mr. Lantz, who will be the white candidate facing a Black incumbent for City Council in Seattle next November, is already attacking his opponent as "a -step-'n- fetch- it" for the "liberal crowd in the Council majority."
Undoubtedly. USLP candidates around the country gain a few votes from this type of demagoguery, but most observers believe the group's clever selection of districts with no Republican candidates is far more important. Yet to what extent is the latter tactic only an example of mirror trickery?
From the Washington Post, Jan 14, 1985
"His outfit smacks of fascism to me," Rep. Parren J. Mitchell (D-Md.) said in a statement introduced in the libel case. Mitchell said in an interview that LaRouche supporters tried to break up his political gatherings in Baltimore and distributed literature calling him a drug dealer and a "house nigger." Mitchell said he received several anonymous telephone calls, including one death threat.
"I knew it was them because I recognized some of their voices," Mitchell said. He said the harassment ended soon after he pulled a gun on a group of LaRouche supporters gathered outside his Baltimore home.
Harold Washington
"Washington was elected with a strong homosexual vote,
backed by the pro-drug, pro-pornography Playboy Foundation."
"AIDS is More Deadly Than Nuclear War",
Authorized Statement, National Democratic
Policy Committee, October 1985
Jazz
"Jazz was foisted on black Americans by the same oligarchy
which had run the U.S. slave trade, with the help of the
classically trained but immoral George Gershwin and the Paris-New
York circuit of drug-taking avant-garde artists."
"The Racist Roots of Jazz", Back Cover, The Campaigner,
September-October 1980
(Message edited by Xlcr4life on June 19, 2005)
(Message edited by Xlcr4life on June 19, 2005)

 

borisbad (borisbad)
06-20-2005, 09:28 AM
I remember the RYM days too when Paul Gallagher was assaulted in the NY office by one of the RYM members he caught stealing money. This was before the days when the NCLC got into rip offs of their own. I think the main idea behind RYM was to use them as the shock troops as part of Mop Up-in other words use them against the minorities already organized by the CP and the SWP. I remember also driving around housing projects in NY in the middle of the night posting up posters attacking Law Enforcement Assistance Administration (LEAA) as the CIA-Rockefeller conspiracy to root out the old local police departments and replace them with a national police force. We had some kind of poster with a skeleton and a huge hypodermic saying that the LEAA was pushing drugs in the ghettos. I wondered many times how we managed to make it out of some of the areas we used to "blitz" alive.

 

jamesstjohnsmythe (jamesstjohnsmythe)
06-21-2005, 05:05 AM
xlcr4life:
Thanks for the post and the history of the Bizarro world of LaRouche, it sheds more light on the matter. But I never wholly judged the LaRouche cult's relationship with "minorities" like blacks.
My arguement is the cult's social structure systematically picks people who are young women, minority, and/or people who are just plain gullible. But the only time they drop the meticulous attitude is when they have a hard time organizing a person who knows what he/she is talking about and makes the cult look like a bunch of asses that they are.
The LYM childishly labels these people "Sophists".
The second thing to understand is that the goal of the group is always the worship of Larouche and whatever happens to be his view of reality at the time.
Look at the subject of the Sophists for example, when one asks the members "What is a Sophist?" They repeat what LaRouche says without thinking about researching it with outside resources. The first known Sophist was Protagoras who was the first "Humanist". Protagoras declared that Human being is the measure of all things, meaning human being is the center of all reality.
And since the LYM enjoy reading the Plato Dialogues every Sunday, they should read "Protagoras". In the begining of the dialogue in which Socrates says "Protagoras is fairer and the most wisest man in Athens" If the LYM read that, they would probably rip their hair out of their scalps.

 

wanderer (wanderer)
06-21-2005, 08:43 PM
I guess the LHLs represent the fraudulent Sophists who misconstrued and warped the original intention. Surely, the pot calling the kettle black.
In other words, they're the fakes who need to get rid of the real thing so they can create the illusion that they're truly the real deal.
I guess this begins to explain matters such as book burning.
From Wikipedia:
Origins
The meaning of the word sophist (gr. sophistès, meaning "wise-ist," or one who 'does' wisdom; cf. sophós, "wise man") has changed greatly over time. Initially, a sophist was someone who gave sophia to his disciples, i.e., wisdom made from knowledge. It was a highly complimentary term, applied to early philosophers such as the Seven Wise Men of Greece.
In the second half of the 5th century B.C., and especially at Athens, "sophist" came to be applied to a group of thinkers who employed debate and rhetoric to teach and disseminate their ideas and offered to teach these skills to others. Due to the importance of such skills in the litigious social life of Athens, acclaimed teachers of such skills often commanded very high fees. The practice of taking fees, coupled with the willingness of many practitioners to use their rhetorical skills to pursue unjust lawsuits, eventually led to a decline in respect for practitioners of this form of teaching and the ideas and writings associated with it.
Protagoras is generally regarded as the first sophist. Other leading 5th-century sophists included Gorgias and Prodicus. Socrates was perhaps the first philosopher to significantly challenge the Sophists.
By the time of Plato and Aristotle, "sophist" had taken on negative connotations, usually referring to someone who used rhetorical sleight-of-hand and ambiguities of language in order to deceive, or to support fallacious reasoning. Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle all challenged the philosophical foundations of sophism. Eventually, the school was accused of immorality by the state.
In modern philosophical usage, sophistry is a derogatory term for rhetoric that is designed to appeal to the listener on grounds other than the strict logical validity of the statements being made.
The Sophists held a relativistic view on cognition and knowledge. Their philosophy contains criticism of Religion, law and ethics. Though many sophists were as religious as their contemporaries, some held atheistic or agnostic views.
Unfortunately most of the original texts written by the sophists have been lost, and modern understanding of sophistic movement comes from analysis of Plato's writings. It is necessary to keep in mind that Plato and the sophists had severe ideological differences, and Plato might have benefited from modifying or slanting the original sophistic arguments when he presented them in his writings (ironically, a sophistic technique at work), or may even not have fully understood their arguments himself. An excellent book on the topic is "The Sophistic Movement" by G. B. Kerferd.
In the Roman Empire, sophists were just professors of rhetoric. For instance, Libanius, Himerius, Aelius Aristides and Fronto were considered sophists in this sense.
[edit]
Reconstruction of Sophist philosophy
In traditional logical argument, a set of premises are connected together according to the rules of logic and lead therefore to some conclusion. When someone criticizes the argument, they do so by pointing out either falsehoods among the premises or logical fallacies, flaws in the logical scaffolding. These criticisms may be subject to counter-criticisms, which in turn may be subject to counter-counter-criticisms, etc. Generally, some judge or audience eventually either concurs with or rejects the position of one side and thus a consensus opinion of the truth is arrived at.
The essential claim of sophistry is that the actual logical validity of an argument is irrelevant; it is only the ruling of the audience which ultimately determine whether a conclusion is considered "true" or not. By appealing to the prejudices and emotions of the judges, one can garner favorable treatment for one's side of the argument and cause a factually false position to be ruled true.
The philosophical Sophist goes one step beyond that and points out that since it was traditionally accepted that the position ruled valid by the judges was literally true, any position ruled true by the judges must be considered literally true, even if it was arrived at by naked pandering to the judges' prejudices — or even by bribery.
Critics would argue that this claim relies on a straw man caricature of logical discourse and is, in fact, a self-justifying act of sophistry.
Various (perhaps even most) politicians employ sophistry, as well.

 

jamesstjohnsmythe (jamesstjohnsmythe)
06-28-2005, 04:57 AM
I wouldn't say their fraudulant Sophists cause Sophists of any kind wouldn't join a totalitarian movement. Then going out on the streets selling books and newspaper and calling pass byers "Facist" for not stopping at their table.
I would say their fraudulant Socrates cause like Socrates they ask so much questions. But unlike Socrates the cult calls people "Facists", "Sophists", and God knows what other names they call someone who isn't gullible enough to fall for their shenanigans.
You should also remember that most of the members
are anti-social, insecure, and gullible. Sophists
need to be social cause Sophist are debaters

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
07-02-2005, 04:34 PM
"You should also remember that most of the members are anti-social, insecure, and gullible."
"My arguement is the cult's social structure systematically picks people who are young women, minority, and/or people who are just plain gullible. But the only time they drop the meticulous attitude is when they have a hard time organizing a person who knows what he/she is talking about and makes the cult look like a bunch of asses that they are."
jamesstjohnsmythe, let me explain my view of this. In the years I was associating woth the group, we attracted many talented and intelligent people. The original LC was created from the remnants of the student movemement in the 1960's. The NCLC at the time attracted many bright students who were disenchanted at the anti intellectualism of most leftist groups on campus. Our base of students were serious scholars in many fields.
Many members of that era did not think of their involvement as being in part of a cult. Larouche at that time was teaching classes in various places on Marxism. A lot of those people left the org in disgust when they viewed Larouche as insane and turning the group into a cult of personality. This took place in the early 1970's.
The next group to leave were recruited as leftists but became suspicious of larouche and the group when we began to morph ourselves in so called conservatives and began to work with outright anti semites and shysters.
In the 1980's, we has most of our Jewish members leave when this direction became too much to stomach by most people. With what was left, we began our descent into outright tax and other fruads of which we were indicted and convicted in many venues.
Each generation of recruits and members joined becuase of their desire to change a part of the world they thought needed to be changed. Each member I can assure you had their hearts in the right places. Unfortunately, their hearts were misled and misdirected by the cult.
I myself had no real idea of the level and sophistication of the anti semitism which we were pushing. Not many people also knew of the FULL extent of our financial frauds. We all knew about the abuses taking place, but, it was viewed as a pasrt of the price to pay for changing the world.
Most cults can recruit very smart people among the the general recruits. The desire to do good is what the cult exploits. Thus, there is no tolerence to deal with people you desribe who question everything. When we were sizing up our contacts for further work, you knew who would be good for a few bucks after a long debate and who would be more likely to be recruited.
The present yutes have no idea what hit them. As far as they are concernedm they are part of a mysterious, behind the scenes power. They have no idea of how decades of this work by the cult has been done over and over again.
Since most people in the group never really read what we were publishing, it often comes as a surprise when when you actually read our materials. A good case in point is the "Beyond Psych" series of Campainers. The yutes think that they are going through a class in the office to help them organise.
Larouche has quite a few times written about a psychologist named Lawrence Kubie who was very popular at the time Larouche was trying to figure out how to get himself taken seriously by the starta which rejected him as nuts back in the 1950's.
I by no means can claim to know psychology like the cult seems to expertly know. Kubie, from the exerpts I read, pointed out how some people who do very good work in graduate level work, sometimes have creative dry spells after they receive their degree.
What Larouche was able to do is to take that simple observation and convince yutes 18 to 25 that they will no longer have any success after going to college or work. They will die an intellectual death and no longer be "potent" in effecting change in the universe. Thus, only by joining a creative org like the LYM can one further those creative powers. Larouche sould always tell us at national conferences that only that strata of people can join the LC as they are not yet married, working, having kids or leading productive lives. Lives which make one examine why you would want to take a madman seriously.
When people joined, they were often under the belief that they would become much more creative and powerfull. In reality, you basically signed away your youth to raise money for the lifestyle which Lyn and Helga became accustomed to.
The LYM of today is just another rerun of the same story. The perversion of Kubie is used to convince not the whole student body, but a few individuals who really wish to do good, but wish to do it faster than a Bachelors and Post Graduate schedule would allow. In this environment, it becomes pretty easy to convince a LYM that he or she actually knows something about the history, science, art, math etc..
What you only know is whatever Larouche fantasy happens to come to life on the typewriter that evening based on what group you wish to target for money and support that week.
Do look up Lawrence Kubie and see how Larouche used a twisted version for recruiting yutes.
Always understand that the present dead ender leadership went through these classes with Larouche personally and lost their individual thinking decades ago. They will do anything and have done anything for the Larouche. The list of former members is full of broken down, bankrupt, physically and mentally abused cases. The deadenders and Larouche go to sleep each night without a worry in their mind or hearts over the wreckage. They have the same level of cold heartedness as they had with the elderly who signed away life savings for us in the 1980's.
Just look at what the cult has printed for its members concerning the death of Jeremiah Duggan. There is one press release which blames his death on a British conspiracy to deny Larouche the White House. The press release ends by injecting a suicide of a British officer. You can not read that release and think that these people are sane. You can find it on the
www.justiceforjeremiah.com (http://www.justiceforjeremiah.com)
I would venture to say that the current LYM crop will be quite shocked when they see how much of their hard work was to advance crazed ideas of how the Jews run and control the world in many horrible anti semitic networks in the Mid East and other areas. DO a google of Larouche and the Zayed center to see this.
Now all is not lost. There are numerous ex members who have left the cult and became very successfull in many endeavors of the arts, sciences, teaching, business, economics etc.
Eventually, people figure this stuff out. Some sooner than later. Many yutes who begin to look this stuff up and read sites like this catch on real fast. I post here not to insult or attack yutes, but to give them a history lesson they richly deserve. They could begin by asking themselves when and what was the story they were told about Jeremiah Duggan.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-13-2005, 01:18 AM
Dear Mr. Curtis a.k.a. xlcr4life,
Instead of maintaining correspondence in the private, I wish the public to benefit from the potential fruits of the dialogue I wish us to elevate to. So, let us remember to leave uneducated emotional outbursts aside, and above all else, as a great man once said (and continues to say), "have fun!"
To reintroduce myself. My name is Steven George Rendon, son of Jose and Roseann, sibling to Joseph and Alyssa, boyfriend to Danielle, native of Fresno, CA, currently 21 year old student at Yale University, former formal student in the Worldwide Lyndon LaRouche Youth Movement, current informal student of that same global open conspiracy to initiate a Renaissance of mankind led by former-Professor Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr., and recent reader of the unfortunate manner, in which the proceedings are taking place in this message board.
I say "unfortunate" because it appears that a (witting?) mischaracterization is being liberally fed to inquisitive persons, those who have profound questions relating to the character and mission of the organizations associated with Mr. LaRouche.
Before opining any further, I must preface my concerns by unequivocally submitting my humility and assurance that I intend no harm to any, and simply wish the most truthful of outcomes. In fact, it is my hypothesis that I will have a much greater understanding of the subject at hand, after confronting your recent endeavors on this message board.
Initially, I was reluctant in confronting your opinions, because I recognize that many would absorb your opinions as truth, simply because they might be intimidated of the unique role that you have chosen for yourself, a role that seemingly is designed to give you unquestionable expertise in the matter. The role that I am referring to could be best summarized by the following two characterizations: 1) you, like many others, have broken association with Mr. LaRouche, after many years of inside experience and most unnerving 2) that you currently choose to enter in a campaign of reconstructing the history of Mr. LaRouche's international movement, by attempting to give validity to what confused people want to hear, from the standpoint of, forgive me if I sound facetious, the Chris Curtis Bizarro World, that is if my hypothesis is correct thus far.
Your attempt to discredit Mr. LaRouche, not so much by intellectually challenging his writings and offering "more sound" ideas, seems to reach beyond reason and, in fact, in contradiction to it.
I explain. The Curtis Bizarro World has many contradictions, as it claims that there are two Mr. LaRouches, one that is a self-proclaimed brilliant humanist politician and economist in public view, and the other that is a sinister con man and swindler. Also, at times, perhaps opportunistically to reinforce widespread rumors, you claim that his writings are not humanist, and instead reflect anti-Semitism and even fascist sentiments. Also, you corroborate the theory that Mr. LaRouche is a conspiracy theorist. In addition, you claim that he makes sweeping generalizations, intended to disorient the reader and prove a false reality. There is more to be said, but this should be sufficient at this juncture.
You also claim, quite paradoxically, that former members educated among Mr. LaRouche's "sycophants" are now well respected citizens continuing the good fight. Even look up Mr. Webster Tarpley, you challenge. Well, I actually did follow Mr. Tarpley a bit, particularly his dedication to writing books and lecturing about the on-going global economic crash and exposing the "financier-mole-patsy" network, which produced the greatest recent horror of "Islamic" terror on 9/11, both "theories" that you point out discounts Mr. LaRouche as a kook. What about Mr. Tarpley's continuing dedication to throwing the neo-conservative movement into the dust-bin of history and beginning a new era of American System economic progress.
After reading this message board, one may be falsely put in the awkward position of having to choose between two somewhat Bizarro Worlds, as you describe them, a tactic not dissimilar to the way the neo-conservative war hawks disorient the general populace when they menacingly ask, "Are you with us, or are you a terrorist?" "Are you with me, or are you a LaRouchie?"
In fact, you attempt to usurp a monopoly of trust against, on the other hand, Mr. LaRouche's record. Where, I wonder, do you garner such impeccable trust? Perhaps you receive such confidence from your popular "American dream" lifestyle of having "respectable" suburban credentials of an uncontroversial job, a wife, some kids, and perhaps white-picket fence?
Let's view a few other credentials of yours, shall we? Two immediately come to mind: 1) your role in betraying your former friends in court and 2) your role in collaborating to kidnap members of the organization. These accusations I have come across at various points; I have linked the arguments of the opposition to your roles below, in interest of having a balanced discussion that considers both parties, yourself and those who your (cooked?) testimony sent to prison.
Do not you think it would have been appropriate to disclose your involvement in such crucial legal proceedings, instead of attacking Barbara Boyd and John Covici in round-about discourse, wowing the message board with your exuding confidence and "inside" information.
As for my personal testimony:
Having been trained in the manner of a liberal arts method of education nearly my entire life, except until Mr. LaRouche's indirect intervention in my studies a couple years ago, I understand the truthfulness of Mr. LaRouche's movement in terms of academia, in terms of Classical Humanism.
Yes, Mr. Curtis, Mr. LaRouche has also put me in debt, however, not as you might think. That is, I am forever indebted to him for catalyzing my current ability to reason and discover the world of loving ideas, which governs the real physical universe, and smoke out the irrationality of MTV's sex, drugs, and rock-and-roll.
Who is this evil man, Lyndon LaRouche, that you speak of? In the Curtis Bizarro World, he is corrupting the youth, stealing their minds, and making them work under fascist austerity.
But, au contraire, my friend! In the real universe, which is governed by reason and not ranting (that is, Leibnizian reason of contradiction and sufficient necessity, versus the ranting arguments that sound like someone crying, "Come on!"), Mr. LaRouche has opened the world of study to largely ignored youth, and as a corollary, has destroyed the idea that it is natural to indoctrinate your mind by obsession with pornography, drugs, alcohol, and anti-cognitive forms of music, which also at many times explicitly promotes the former obsessions, chanting, "money, bitches, and hoes, n-word!" And what has emerged? The humanistically powerful individual, which is taunted by a society that has the gall to cynically "prove," "See! Political extremist Lyndon LaRouche is brainwashing your kids into thinking that they can make a revolutionary change in the world!" This resembles the "Come on!" form of argument, which should be crystal clear to any modestly rigorous philosopher as being in complete contradiction to actual scientific reason.
When I was organizing with the L.A. local full-time, I did not have mommy and daddy's credit card to live off of, as you slanderously claim. We received the 20$ a week stipend, which, admittedly was unreliable. However, we always had a place to sleep, cars to drive, books to read, food to eat, and if any necessities would come up, we knew exactly who to go for to receive the necessary cash on the spot. Compare that to the fascist slavery that was Hitler's labor camps? Who is the anti-Semite now? Save your saliva, because you're going to need it in order to continue spitting on the memory of those 6 million graves.
Mr. LaRouche and the LYM are explicitly dedicated to end the slave labor camps around the world. For that, I never complained about having enough money to go buy a movie ticket to catch the great cultural flick American Pie 5.
In fact, I was given the time to read the news, study on my own the great books of our civilization, the organizations pamphlets, study drama and music, and, yes, I came out of that movement with a firm grasp of what brainwashing is and, on the contrary, what creativity is.
I have no agenda. I am not afraid of my mistakes in the past and those that I make today, because with continuous study, where ever I end up, I will ever-more-perfectly fight this dead pop culture, as His Holiness John Paul II described it, until we do have a Renaissance. These are my intentions, the intentions of a "cult" of Truth and Love.
I hope that we can start having some real discussion here, and elevate our intentions above the false muck that is currently represented. Hopefully, Anonymous, who's intentions and incentives are as concealed as his identity, will also join in the discourse that I hope will ensue from here.
Sincerely,
Steven George Rendon
Below are a few excerpts and their originating websites, where the opposition to Mr. Curtis documents the controversy surrounding his involvement in the imprisonment of Mr. LaRouche. It was a quick and rough search, meant to be a starting point of an investigation of the true history of what happened.
http://www.larouchepub.com/exon/exon_add4_virginia.html
One witness, former LaRouche associate Chris Curtis, was ``deprogrammed--i.e., brainwashed--by Cult Awareness Network kidnapper Galen Kelly and former Loudoun County (Va.) Sheriff's Deputy Donald Moore. Both Moore and Kelly have since served federal prison sentences for a CAN-related kidnapping.
http://www.larouchepub.com/exon/exon2.html
FACT: Key prosecution ``insider
witnesses Chris Curtis and Wayne Hintz were granted formal and informal immunity from prosecution. Prosecutor John Markham and Deputy Don Moore helped secure Curtis's admission into George Mason Law School (2255 Appendices 107-119) ….
FACT: In an FBI wire-tap, dated July 7-8, 1992, Deputy Moore and CAN member Galen Kelly stated they ``deprogrammed Curtis before his testimony at trial (Motion to Take Judicial Notice).
http://members.tripod.com/american_almanac/boyd.htm
The lead prosecution witness, Chris Curtis, a former LaRouche associate, was ``deprogrammed
by professional deprogrammers before he took the witness stand. Such brainwashing, the petitions demonstrate, rendered unreliable anything Curtis said. Curtis plotted with prosecutors to forever bury an immunity agreement insuring that he would never be prosecuted but would, in fact, go to law school under prosecutorial sponsorship. Prosecutors and Curtis discussed the fact that disclosure of this agreement would undermine Curtis's credibility. Instead prosecutors presented Curtis to the jury as a conscience-stricken truth teller who was willing to ``let the chips fall where they may.''
Curtis was also involved, with full knowledge of the prosecution, in a plot to kidnap Lewis du Pont Smith, a member of the LaRouche movement and a witness at the Gallagher/Hecht trial. He conducted surveillance of Smith for kidnappers Galen Kelly and Don Moore.
http://beyond-the-illusion.com/files/Orvotron/Spirit-BBS-Files/text/lartrial.txt
Vindictive Witnesses
A crucial element of the prosecution's case, and especially for the prosecution's characterization of LaRouche as the authoritarian dictator of the alleged conspiracy, was the testimony of former members of the NCLC: Charles Tate, Chris Curtis, Vera Cronk, Steve Bardwell and Pam Goldman. Their malicious, lying testimony demonstrated that a conspiracy did indeed exist -- namely on the part of those who had orchestrated the indictments and legal harassment of the defendants! It was quite clear that these witnesses were motivated by personal animosity toward LaRouche, and had possibly been pressured to testify by promiss of avoiding prosecution themselves. It became clear that the witnesses had been coached by representatives of the prosecution in repeated intensive sessions in order to fit their testimony to the prosecution's case.
An unbiased court could only dismiss these witnesses' testimony as worthless. The final blow to their credibility was delivered when witnesses Steve Bardwell and Charles Tate were forced to confirm descriptions of a Halloween Party held on October 31, 1986, in which former NCLC members celebrated the huge FBI raid, earlier that month, on the offices of LaRouche-associated organizations. Bardwell had himself written a five-page invitation to that party, announcing the performance of a play entitled "Pin the Rap on LaRouche." The guests at the party came in costume; Charles Tate, who had dressed himself up as a credit card, acted out an imaginary testimony against LaRouche. Kostas Kalimtgis, a former leading associate of LaRouche presently suspected of having been a long-time KGB plant, gave a major speach at the Halloween party calling upon those present to do everything possible "to put LaRouche behind bars."
While most statements by the ex-members were discredited by their obvious vindictive intent, Charles Tate and Chris Curtis entangled themselves in serious contradictions. Curtis had earlier testified, in the Boston case, that LaRouche associates had acted in good faith and he had no knowledge of an intention not to repay debts. Now, in Alexandria, he claimed that non-repayment had been the general policy. Especially under cross examination, Curtis revealed himself to be an obedient instrument of the prosecution. His coaching for testimony had clearly been much more than the originally acknowledged 15 hours of consultation with U.S. government officials. Curtis admitted that since leaving the NCLC he had applied for employment to 12 different government agencies, including the CIA. It emerged that in the course of his attempts to secure employment, Curtis had successively changed his line on LaRouche and his associates, in the direction of increasingly damaging statements. Tate revealed himself as a notorious liar, admitting that he had lied to LaRouche in a number of written reports. He had spent the equivalent of two weeks preparing his testimony under the supervision of various government agents, including representatives of the prosecution…
The Case of Dennis Small
Defendant Dennis Small was indicted on only one count, for allegedly having sollicited a large loan from Mrs. Goodwill for the declared purpose of supporting a campaign against drugs. It emerged, however, that Chris Curtis was the one who made the loan agreement with Mrs. Goodwill -- according to Curtis' own testimony! Dennis Small had never had anything to do with this loan. Curtis left the distinct impression that his false testimony in court had been elicited under threat of indictment.

 

kheris (kheris)
07-13-2005, 01:38 PM
Steve
Prior to the election, I was in a brief correspondence with Doug Mayhew who apparently couldn't move past the programming he received in the LaRouche organization, and frankly I see the same sort of thing in your post. If Mayhew is any indication, then I don't expect you to articulate a truly original thought.
Fact - LHL went to jail on a felony conviction, he has not been pardoned for his crimes
Fact - LHL is a perennial presidential candidate who has proven himself singularly unable to articulate and act on a vision that resonates with the American public despite his assertions that he has the best answers to solve America's problems. His performance in the last election was so abysmal I can't imagine anyone taking him seriously as a candidate, except for the true believers among his followers.
Fact - LHL has indeed consorted with anti-Semites, I have read more than one article confirming his relationships with organizations that can hardly be characterized as friendly to Jews - and the articles were not written by Berlet, King, or Curtis.
Steve -
If you want to support a man whose followers, based on my best information, appear to be fewer than those in the US Communist Party (the July 2005 convention in Chicago had 1500 delegates in one meeting room), feel free to do so.
If you want to support a man whose favorite method of dealing with his opponents is via ad hominem attacks (Beast Man Cheney comes to mind) feel free to do so.
If you want to support a man who's response to the Duggan Affair is on a par with the most craven behavior of US corporations dodging legal bullets, feel free to do so.
Just do us all a favor and be honest. Don't portray him as being more than what he really is; a self serving, self promoter, akin to a chameleon when it serves his purposes. I have met and interacted with truly principled individuals who lead by example and take personal responsibility for the outcomes of their actions. They do not hold on to an idealized past in the face of new information, rather they adjust and grow. LHL can't hold a candle to them.

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-13-2005, 03:04 PM
To kheris,
I must reiterate, from my most recent post, that I am proceeding with an absolutely honest approach to the fact that we have obvious discrepancies. I may be wrong in the whole, or in parts. That being said, I must bring forward my working honest hypothesis thus far, and fear not arguments that resemble, "Come on!"
Firstly. One would make a most grave error, if he were to judge people convicted of crimes as being deserving of said crimes. This follows in the negative as well: one should not assume that those who have NOT been convicted of crimes do not deserve such proceedings. I believe we should be in agreement on this most transparent issue. I need not bring examples in history, past or current, to illustrate the point, unless that is your wish.
Secondly. Any politician who has "been able to articulate and act on a vision that resonates with the American public," and thus are responsible for the shambles of past and current economic policy and military policy should be taken as far away from government as possible, or at least must be put through some type of education process to again prove his or her worth in directing public affairs. Mere perennial candidate status says nothing of reasoned argument. In fact, if one Henry Clay were to win any of his perennial attempts at the White House, I'm sure his impact would have been great and good.
Thirdly. I consort with anti-Semites. I also consort with racists, genocidalists, environmentalists, Republicans, Democrats, liberals, conservatives, members of the LaRouche organizations, apathetics, et al. Am I thus all of these labels wrapped up into a ball of "You are who you consort with." If people never consorted with racists, how would we ever learn from each other? How do coalitions arise to promote the common Good. On my campus, I consort with anti-Moslems and anti-Semites alike, in order to promote a real peace in the Middle East based on economic development, desalinization projects in particular.
I went to Washington D.C. for the primaries. I organized the rich, poor, black, white, Hispanic, and they do not treat me as Political Extremist Steven Rendon.
Fourthly. An ad hominem attack is not simply a judgment of the morality of an individual. If I were to declare that Vice President Cheney is a beastman, it represents a conclusion of an historical experiment. Any politician who is shown through journalistic investigation to be an instrument of antihuman policies, is justly vulnerable to be morally judged as a beast man. It is, in many ways, a Classical reference. It is a metaphor. It only reads as an ad hominem attack by someone who HAS NOT DONE THE INVESTIGATION.
As far as the so-called Duggan Affair, I have not read in depth all of the tedious reports that I am sure exist. Knowing the nature of how cadre schools operate, since I have attended a few myself, it seems ludicrous to suggest any malicious intent on part of Schiller Institute. On the surface, it seems that your outrage should be on the behalf of those who wish to manipulate and torture a mother who has been a victim of a terribly unfortunate tragedy.
The attempts of the LaRouche organizations to defend itself are obviously attempting to block this personal tragedy from being able to be manipulated to precipitate a political attack.
I may be wrong. But these are my hypotheses thus far, and I have not come across a reasonable counter-thesis. Please bring forth one, if one so exists. I will be more than willing to consider it, as I have been the entire period that I have verified the essential thesis of Mr. LaRouche and his associates.
Best wishes,
Steven

 

anon127 (anon127)
07-13-2005, 07:57 PM
Dear Steven,
My regards to yourself, Jose, Roseann, Joseph, Alyssa, Danielle, Fresno, and Yale.
LaRouche is never short of honest and humble 21-year olds.
I explain.
As any honest and humble student of LaRouche would know, the world is currently in the midst of the most severe economic collapse, at least for the past 500 years.
This being the case, things like mortagages, money, a Yale University piece of paper (i.e. degree), and so on, would be worthless.
As such, any honest student and follower of LaRouche, would not be wasting his time being a student at Yale University.
To begin with, the quality of the economics taught at Yale is obviously suspect. The proof of this is very clear. There is no LaRouche in it.
Even if you are not taking economics in Yale, but some other course, what would you do with that piece of Yale paper?
Get of job? Earn a salary? Come on...there would be no jobs left in an economic collapse. Even if you can find one that pays $20 a week selling magazines by the sidewalk, that wouldn't help either since money would just be another piece of paper - like a degree from Yale.
Therefore, anyone who claims to understand "the truthfulness of Mr. LaRouche's movement", would drop out of college immediately.
Only those who still don't get it (or perhaps it's an honesty issue) would still continue to waste his time, and Jose and Roseann's money, on something as silly as Yale University.
The trouble with some people is - they claim that they are forever indebted to LaRouche for catalyzing their current ability to reason and discover, but when it comes to dropping out of college in order to dedicate themselves to ending slave labor camps around the world (which is the most reasonable thing to do, assuming that the aforementioned ability to reason and discover is not brainwashing after all) , they go buy a movie ticket to the great cultural flick - American Pie 5.
All talk, no action.
Of course, there's the occasional trip to this conference, that pedagogy, some spare hours to help out at the table...but honestly...ask yourself...why not full-time...especially on something as important the future of humanity.
So honestly....why still go to Yale? Mother's fears? Are the fees that cheap? Did Jose and Roseann forbid you to drop out?
If that's what those two did, then from your understanding of LaRouche, i think you would be able to figure out what their problem is -- Jose and Roseann are victims of the counter-culture - drugs, sex and rock-and-roll. And the occasional American Pie.
Any parent who insists on his or her son not dropping out of college to join the Worldwide LaRouche Youth Movement to make the world a better place (i.e. forbidding their son to fulfill his mission in life), besides selling subs at the street corner for the org, needs to be confronted - don't you agree?
In fact, if Jose and Roseann still don't "come around", it's best that you declare your independence (remember that article abt Gauss declaring his independence?), and not see too much of those counter-culture victims. They are small people, and a bad influence on you. LaRouche once called Jason Ross' father a "snook" when Jason's stupid father had the galls to show up in a conference asking abt kids graduating from college. The world is coming to an end, and all that snook could think abt is some piece of paper from Stanford (in Jason's case).
I hope Jose is not a snook. And i certainly hope Roseann is not "mommy".
If Jose and Roseann are already with the org, then you are really lucky to have a family like that.
if they aren't, like Lyn once said, you have to take Jose and Roseann's bedroom away from them (please refer to Lyn's Beyond Psychoanalysis). It's for their own good, and yours.
Anyway, about Joseph and Alyssa, are they old enough yet for the Youth Movement. The Youth Movement is always looking for young people. Just ask Lawrence and Debbie Freeman. They can provide you with more details.
If Jo and Aly are older than you, then it is your duty (to humanity, and also to Lyn) to make them "come around" -- if they haven't already -- the org always know how to make use of new blood.
If they are younger, just make sure that they don't end up in college - talk to them, influence them, get them ready for the literature table.
Finally, about Danielle. Since both of you are together, it's best you make sure your girlfriend is also as committed to Lyn as you are. Else, it won't work. Mike Vandernat is very good giving one on one lessons to young members, to help make sure that they are mature enough. Why don't you introduce her to Mike Vandernat. In the spirit of the youth movement, he'll take good care of her.
In conclusion Steven, we appreciate your hypothesis about LHL, but it would be better if you yourself live up your own hypothesis full-time, because part-timing to save to world shows just how fully you understand.
Sincerely.

 

kheris (kheris)
07-13-2005, 10:08 PM
Steven -
Firstly. One would make a most grave error, if he were to judge people convicted of crimes as being deserving of said crimes. This follows in the negative as well: one should not assume that those who have NOT been convicted of crimes do not deserve such proceedings. I believe we should be in agreement on this most transparent issue. I need not bring examples in history, past or current, to illustrate the point, unless that is your wish.
Are you dodging the fact bullet here? I was not proposing a discussion on hypotheticals. LHL was convicted and he has yet to provide a convincing show of evidence that he should be pardoned due to some misfeasance or malfeasance on the part of the prosecutors.
Secondly. Any politician who has "been able to articulate and act on a vision that resonates with the American public," and thus are responsible for the shambles of past and current economic policy and military policy should be taken as far away from government as possible, or at least must be put through some type of education process to again prove his or her worth in directing public affairs. Mere perennial candidate status says nothing of reasoned argument. In fact, if one Henry Clay were to win any of his perennial attempts at the White House, I'm sure his impact would have been great and good.
Yet another dodge of the fact bullet. Your boy LHL can easily pass the test of not being responsible for the current mess we are in. That wasn't what I brought up. The bottom line is your boy LHL can't come up with a vision that challenges and overcomes the current stale alternatives provided by the existing establishment. If he could have done so it would have been evident in the voting patterns. He couldn't get the votes. Period.
Thirdly. I consort with anti-Semites. I also consort with racists, genocidalists, environmentalists, Republicans, Democrats, liberals, conservatives, members of the LaRouche organizations, apathetics, et al. Am I thus all of these labels wrapped up into a ball of "You are who you consort with." If people never consorted with racists, how would we ever learn from each other? How do coalitions arise to promote the common Good. On my campus, I consort with anti-Moslems and anti-Semites alike, in order to promote a real peace in the Middle East based on economic development, desalinization projects in particular.
Oh please, I consort with all manner of people too, which is not the same as making common cause with them. LHL made common cause with anti-Semites, which is a large step beyond merely shaking hands.
I went to Washington D.C. for the primaries. I organized the rich, poor, black, white, Hispanic, and they do not treat me as Political Extremist Steven Rendon.
And a fab job you did too. Did I mention the vote count?
Fourthly. An ad hominem attack is not simply a judgment of the morality of an individual. If I were to declare that Vice President Cheney is a beastman, it represents a conclusion of an historical experiment. Any politician who is shown through journalistic investigation to be an instrument of antihuman policies, is justly vulnerable to be morally judged as a beast man. It is, in many ways, a Classical reference. It is a metaphor. It only reads as an ad hominem attack by someone who HAS NOT DONE THE INVESTIGATION.
OK, just for the record, an ad hominem attack is an attack on the person, not on his or her ideas. It isn't about the morality of the individual's ideas. And frankly, most folks who participate in the regular discourse on ideas will tell you that when you lower yourself to the level of personal attack you have lost the argument.
As far as the so-called Duggan Affair, I have not read in depth all of the tedious reports that I am sure exist. Knowing the nature of how cadre schools operate, since I have attended a few myself, it seems ludicrous to suggest any malicious intent on part of Schiller Institute. On the surface, it seems that your outrage should be on the behalf of those who wish to manipulate and torture a mother who has been a victim of a terribly unfortunate tragedy.
Dear boy, you must be missing the part where the mother is leading the charge looking for an explanation. You must not have children of your own or you would understand that very few (if any) parents need to be manipulated in order to get them focused on finding the answers regarding the untimely, unexpected death of their children.
The attempts of the LaRouche organizations to defend itself are obviously attempting to block this personal tragedy from being able to be manipulated to precipitate a political attack.
Yada, yada, yada. If the Institute leadership had taken a more proactive approach in working with the mother, perhaps all of this mess would have been avoided. Instead we got a load of hooey regarding the Tavistock Institute and the boy's mental state by people who are not qualified to comment. Especially galling since the German police made no effort to do anything besides rubberstamp the claims made by the Schiller Institute leadership. What is worse is that the Germans committed to reopening the investigation, and then reneged. No need to manipulate squat here, the authorities provided all the necessary ammunition.
I may be wrong.
Boy are you ever wrong. However, far be it from me to interfere with your personal enjoyment of a perceived moral high road. May I suggest hip waders as you slog through the mud.

 

anon127 (anon127)
07-13-2005, 10:18 PM
come on !!!
"When I was organizing with the L.A. local full-time..."
should read...
"As I am organizing with the L.A. local full-time..."

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-14-2005, 02:36 AM
Dear anon127 and kheris,
You both bring up very interesting questions and comments, especially for people who are genuinely interested in finding truthful answers, as I have pondered these same subjects before now being prompted. In any case, let us continue.
Mr. Curtis alluded to an important point, that there are many people in the world who are humanists, who, I say, fight against an imperial parasite that is ruling by decree; however, he did so in order to prove that Mr. LaRouche is not the only humanist, adding later that he is no humanist at all.
With that in mind, allow me to paint the reality of our current history, where many humanists reside, yet are found outside of the ruling establishment. That way, we may see some credentials of Mr. LaRouche and maybe we can weed out the underdeveloped questions.
It may be easier for someone to read something by Mr. Tarpley and have a good conception of current reality, because he does not seem to emphasize the more cultural aspects (as Mr. LaRouche does), but does emphasize the political dimensions. Most of the populace can not handle the cultural implications, simply because popular (mis)education really is that bad.
Today, generally, nations of the world find themselves paralyzed from acting to generate long-term capital formations, in order to stimulate physical development within the population as a whole. As a matter of public record, the world monetary system is dominated by international corporations, bleeding the population through lowering wages and bankrupting national treasuries, which then activate so-called austerity measures, i.e. budget cuts in medical benefits, social programs, physical investment, etc. Current accounts, world wide, are running nationalistic institutions in "the red", while hegemonic banks and financier groups own "the red." This is the first reality that must burst the typical popular opinion bubble: that globalization is a fraud, designed to enslave the world's labor force on plantation-style work camps. Mr. LaRouche is correct in revealing that since real production began leaving the industrialized nations, the world economy has been "crashing" in net production, with relative fluctuation and adjustment cycles in terms of monetary liquidity available to specific demographics of the world population.
This is indisputable. This is Mr. LaRouche's first badge of honor, telling the truth about the state of the world economy. This is the first reason why I would suspect that those who benefit from such an economic arraignment despise any public figures who would dare challenge the system at the mass-education level. Mr. Tarpley is a very brilliant man and I suspect that he agrees with my general summary of current accounts, so to speak.
Therefore, humanists pop up in the most foreseeable places, typically in unions, and generally the plethora of groups, political and economic, that attempt to expose the various holes in the Titanic that is globalization.
As a corollary to the economic considerations, wars break out to distract the electorate from real issues, as well as to carry out direct looting, with the installation of puppet-governments that typically support the, as Mr. Tarpley puts it, "globaloney" free trade policies.
Mr. LaRouche again receives a gold star for exposing these asymmetric wars for what they really are. So far, I really hope the critics of Mr. LaRouche have done their homework enough to come this far.
Where Mr. LaRouche really seems to step on toes, is his understanding of history through attempting to expose the oligarchical impulse that we see today, as it has developed over time. We can and should discuss these ideas more in depth, but I hope this draws the line a little more clearly.
As for the college issue. Good point. Maybe I will soon drop out or, at the least, I will found an "institution within the institution" to save the intension of the institution, to begin a model for all such educational institutions. I am all ears for suggestions.
Steven

 

jamesstjohnsmythe (jamesstjohnsmythe)
07-14-2005, 06:34 AM
"When I was organizing with the L.A. local full-time..."
should read...
"As I am organizing with the L.A. local full-time..."
anon127, Go figure, when one joins or puts his/her heart into the LYM. That person get bombard with the LYM's "How great Germany is!" propaganda courtesy of Helga. The LYM constantly stress the German culture is the best so the world should learn it's culture, language, etc. They preach the opposite about Great Britain.
Steven, before you try to debate me, first read LHL's three major papers "Beyond Psychoanalysis", "The Sexual Impotence of the PSP" and "Mothers Fears". Those papers represent the LYM's social structure foundation, apart from them acting like a bunch of high school jocks and cheerleaders. Meaning when one doesn't comform to the LYM ideology then one gets alienate.
The three papers have the same fundamental basis which are ego stripping and personality stripping. Other cults do the same like religious fundamentalist, Scientology etc. I know LHL is intelligent and I'm not going to argue againest it. It takes alot of intelligence to have over 300 youths following and worshiping him blinding. But what I'm going to argue is LHL is a self indulging radical.
Who constantly plays "the victim role" in his delusional world of conspiracy. Take the Duggan case for example, LHL's webcast after his death, not once did LHL show his sympathy nor tying to work with the family. He continues doing what he does best, playing "the victim role".
Like Great Britain is training their Jewish citizens to be kamikazes. If he was that much of a threat to Britain, they would send a MI6 agent like James Bond. Speaking of, I met this guy from a cadre school in the summer of 2003 and he wrote James Bond 007 on his cup. Some LYM members were freaking out, and started questioning his friend who happens to be a member.
If you freak out over a fictional character, it's obvious your living in a fantasy world. Is there a connection hmmm?
Look at the events LHL throws, it looks like something out of a B-movie convention. You never see the imcumbent heads of state, only former diplomats, some generals and if lucky a former head of state. If you get a hold of a copy of "Beyond Psych", you should read it with your gf cause I'm sure she'll get a kick out of what LHL writes about women. Remember he wrote this 2 months after his second wife Carol left him for another member.

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-14-2005, 01:20 PM
Very good idea. I, of course, have read the three works and am more than willing to discuss their merits.
The basic premise could be easily referenced by reading the subsection on Humanism, in the Beyond Psychoanalysis paper. Essentially, "ego-stripping" is premised on the hypothesis that a love for humanity and progress should be forefront in every human being, at least that is the thesis of all humanists in history. If one is not motivated by the aforementioned ideas of love and humanism, then one should Socratically find the axioms which DO motivate that person's daily life, until they became nakedly obvious and, essentially, baseless.
I guess if you consider human reason and humanism as unnatural states of the human being, then it could be considered brainwashing.
Please, your thoughts.
Steven

 

kheris (kheris)
07-14-2005, 09:22 PM
Steven
Is LHL all you read and take seriously? Do you expect to just 'read all about it' and never do the heavy lifting to put solutions in place? There is a whole lot more to fixing what ails this planet than curling up with a tome by LHL and then quoting pieces of it to outsiders.
I know of several individuals who speak truth to power regarding globalization, the issues plaguing our economy, and the lack of justice in many corners of this world. All of them have spent some amount of time working directly with people and communities who are suffering as a consequence. Some have made it their life's work, taking time out in the course of the year to reflect and write. I would say that these individuals certainly love humanity.
Not one of them is suggesting that they
A) are the first person to clearly identify what is wrong
B) have the only solution that can fix what is wrong
B) are the only person who can implement the solution in this country.
LHL is not on their radar and I think I know why. He and his followers can throw stones at the current situation with the best, and that is all they do. I have yet to see any evidence that the LYM does anything besides;
A) read from the approved LHL reading list
B) pull all nighters 'discovering' knowledge that has already been discovered - and shared - by others
C) run card table shrines
D) recruit/organize
E) participate in the Labor Day and President's Day conferences.
Whenever I brought this issue up to Mayhew he dodged it, presumably because he could not produce concrete evidence that the LYM was in fact working within communities to affect real change. One has to wonder why all these lovers of humanity are so reluctant to get their hands dirty, as it were, and spend time providing direct aid and support to those suffering the consequences of the ills LHL claims to have predicted/identified.
At the last President's Day conference there was talk about creating a traveling repertory theater group to aid in organizing. Robert Beltran was supposed to lead it. At no time was there any discussion about doing anything concrete, other than to organize. There hasn't been any word about the traveling theater group since that conference. Is the LYM is unable to commit to the work that needs to be done? It's grittier than doing dramatic readings for fellow members or running card table shrines. Or is Beltran's convention and acting schedule impeding its development?

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-15-2005, 01:27 AM
"there are many people in the world who are humanists"
"allow me to paint the reality of our current history, where many humanists reside"
These are quotes from my post.
So do not worry. The only people who think that Mr. LaRouche's organizations believe Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr. to be a God and the only one with the solution, are Mr. LaRouche critics. This I understand well.
There are two major problems in the world today, which will determine the general welfare, or lack there of, in the vast majority of the population of the world; they are political. First, the question of the worldwide economic monetary crises, surrounding the U.S. dollar crash in particular, and the physical economic depressed consequences. Second, the threat of neoconservative-sponsored perpetual warfare. Many problems exist within this framework, but only a blind fool would suggest that more lives are threatened by any other policies.
Therefore, if you build a few dozen houses for displaced Palestinians, they will either die from military operations or from economic strangling. Again, only a selfish fool, who wants only to feel good about themselves, rather than exact powerful and lasting change for others, would deny the merit of a movement that aims to directly educate the population on a one-on-one basis, as well as intelligence dispersing en masse. You can build houses and still be part of a larger coalition. Have no fear; Mr. LaRouche is not the closed-minded person you wish him to be; that is simply something that many LaRouche critics subconsciously project on him to make themselves feel better about rejecting him.
Again, only a presumptuous anti-LaRouche sycophant would neglect to count the many people per day that are engaged by every single LYM organizer. The effect is not sensual in a sense of direct voting, but is an educational effect that is a working progress, and the true aim of the movement is to create an intelligent citizenry that will be able to act before, or at least after increasing catastrophes arise.
As far as studying material other than Mr. LaRouche's writings. I have studied my entire life. I have gone to school since preschool. I received superior marks and recognition in high school. I take classes at a so-called prestigious university. Do the math. I have.
Usual slanders on LaRouche and his associates will not get too far with me. Many of Mr. LaRouche's supporters with simply write you off as a radical who will not listen to reason, and will let you get away with wild accusations. I am not as kind. Try speaking to me as if we are both well intentioned human beings, who have done our fair share of investigation, and who both have something to offer at the table. Are you that afraid to address my posts as if I had a valid point? Are you afraid that you might actually make some sense of the world and that would mean that you would have to give up your comfort-zone slanders on Mr. LaRouche? It is what I am offering for you, so "come down to my level" and have a blasted conversation.
Respectfully,
Steven

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-15-2005, 01:49 AM
P.S. If this is the most open dialogue that can occur on this site, than have no fear, I shall soon leave everyone here to their own devices. Just remember that when your time comes, that you will not take it any more, the lies from the White House, the murdering of our population's children is meaningless wars, the monetary-bankruptness and unemployment that plagues the world, I hope that you will look for those who are publicly demanding an end to war and a beginning of international economic development through long-term capital formation at increasing, not dimishing, labor wages, and technological advancement. Hopefully, your journey will begin with the solid FDR Democrats that can be found at www.larouchepac.com (http://www.larouchepac.com) (and an educational program that will support such projects).

 

anon127 (anon127)
07-15-2005, 02:07 AM
"As for the college issue. Good point. Maybe I will soon drop out or, at the least, I will found an "institution within the institution" to save the intension of the institution, to begin a model for all such educational institutions. I am all ears for suggestions. "
My suggestion to you Steven is that u take yourself seriously, and drop out of Yale NOW.
Not "maybe soon".
Not "look for some institution within the institution to save the "intension of the institution".
Not come here and dialogue.
Not come here and talk up about the LYM when when the LYM's motto is drop out of college and u r still in one.
U talk abt prostitution being sick, but u still go to a whore house (Yale) every other day.
Should u maybe stop going to the whore house soon. Or at least find a whorehouse within a whorehouse to save the intention of the whorehouse?

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-15-2005, 02:19 AM
The LYM's "motto" promotes Classical Humanism, that every human being should promote universal principle.
If you want the LYM to be a cult so bad, you would be more successful starting a cult of your own.
Everyone, where ever they conduct their lives within society, need to in a sense COLONIZE underdeveloped sections of the population with Good Ideas.
Steven

 

anon127 (anon127)
07-15-2005, 04:17 AM
steven,
a simple yes or no will do.
yes = dropping out to join full time.
no = stay in yale and ...
since u know so much abt lhl, and since what lhl is doing is so good...live up to yr own words before going out to dialogue somebody else.

 

jamesstjohnsmythe (jamesstjohnsmythe)
07-15-2005, 08:01 AM
It seems Steven is so confused, not sure which side to listen, one side saying "Stay in Yale!" and the other "Join LYM!". Maybe he's very lonely with no friends, so it's not working as planned at Yale. Who knows probably his relationship with Danielle is on a very bumpy road at the moment. Probably she got sick of his obsession over LHL or she refuses talk to him, after reading her LHL's statement "Women can't think right cause their vagina is next to the anus." from his paper Beyond Psych (Like I said LHL wrote that paper 2 months after Carol left him for another member).
So he's probably looking for attention, and hoping some LYM members stumble onto this message board and see what he's doing. Being so proud of him repeating himself and trying to refute those "evil LaRouche critics" and MI6 agents, they call him everyday to ask him to join full-time. Looks like he had a better time with the LYM, he feels they welcomed him all the time and appreciate him more than anyone else he knew in his life.
Steven-
If that's the case then I challenge you to join the LYM and debate them 3 months after about "Why Man is a mammal" just to see how they're so called "humanist". You never know, you'll bump into Liz Sopko, and tell you "Why don't you stay home and go lick yourself instead of organizing!!" Maybe if your lucky members like Nick Walsh will just call you a "Sophist!" That's they did to this former part-time member and amongs other things.
It's like I said before, they have a mentality of popular high school athletes and cheerleaders.
Just like HS cheerleaders, they go around <u>gossiping</u> about others. If you and Danielle ever break up then you can just work on LHL's ideas with other members and you never know, you and Anna Shaver might hook up. But I must warn you, she's like a frog, leaps on pad after pad. I never knew a "humanist movement" acts like this!
This is apart of the real LYM, what you know is just a sugar coated topping.
James St.John Smythe

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-15-2005, 09:09 AM
And if someone wishes to either ask a genuine question and/or engage in a battle of wits, I will be on standby.
Otherwise, as my mother always used to say, "Kids will be kids!"
Steven

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-15-2005, 09:15 AM
P.S. I will tell my friends you said hi! ;)

 

kheris (kheris)
07-15-2005, 10:01 AM
Steven:
So do not worry. The only people who think that Mr. LaRouche's organizations believe Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr. to be a God and the only one with the solution, are Mr. LaRouche critics. This I understand well.
You must have missed the 2001 Labor Day Conference where LHL had this to say;
But, I found myself, as you know, largely standing alone, surrounded by a few friends and a few friendly souls, who would agree with me. It's a terrible responsibility, to stand as I do, at my age, and to have these responsibilities: Because, if I were to be taken, I don't know what would happen to the rest of you—and, I'm not talking just about the United States, I'm talking about the world. Because, in this United States, I know the institutions of the United States, at least well enough to know what the story is: There isn't, in the whole pack of political party leaderships, there is not the essential ingredient to save this nation! We have to inject it. And, I, above all, have to inject it, which is why I'm running again.
And later he adds this;
But to all us, one thing is in common: When destiny has given you a vocation, and you have a mission, especially when you're the only one to play a key part, in realizing that mission, you better accept it, and do it.
From his lips to your ears dear boy. If his followers don't believe he is the key to all our tomorrows, then they are following the wrong guy because he sure thinks he is, and he said so in 2001. I haven't read anything since that suggests he has changed his view on his role in shaping history.
Again, only a presumptuous anti-LaRouche sycophant would neglect to count the many people per day that are engaged by every single LYM organizer. The effect is not sensual in a sense of direct voting, but is an educational effect that is a working progress, and the true aim of the movement is to create an intelligent citizenry that will be able to act before, or at least after increasing catastrophes arise.
From where I sit the most important issues on people's minds have to do with the state of their bank accounts, having a roof over their heads, and knowing they will have a job tomorrow. All the organizing in the world is just so much intellectual snobbery if it isn't accompanied by concrete action to change the state of the present. Besides, how much organizing can you do from a college campus? And who are you organizing besides your student peers?
Hopefully, your journey will begin with the solid FDR Democrats
FDR was a leader appropriate for a specific time and place that no longer exists. That was then, this is now. Hold on to your past heroes, but remember that a lot has changed in this world in the past 60-70 years.
As far as studying material other than Mr. LaRouche's writings. I have studied my entire life. I have gone to school since preschool. I received superior marks and recognition in high school. I take classes at a so-called prestigious university. Do the math. I have.
I'll match my credentials to yours any day. Attended Georgetown and graduated from Loyola of Chicago, both qualify as prestigious, and both include the notion of service to the community in their overall philosophy. Typical Jebbie (that's Jesuit to you) humanism. Then there was Holy Names in Oakland, whose motto is "Liberating Minds, Transforming Lives," where I got my grad degree. Sounds to me like they are dedicated to creating an intelligent, and educated citizenry.
Try speaking to me as if we are both well intentioned human beings, who have done our fair share of investigation, and who both have something to offer at the table.
Unfortunately Steven, despite your good intentions all you have offered is the same recycled commentaries I got from Mayhew. You at least acknowledge that organizing is what the LYM and LHL's associates do and nothing else. As I said before, that is so much intellectual snobbery. Each night you can go home and count up the people you talked to, but can you count up the lives you have actually changed and hopefully improved? Do remember Tip O'Neill's admonition that "all politics is local." From there we move to "Think Globally, Act Locally". The verb is ACT, not ORGANIZE.
Bail out of here if you like, but remember it is your comfort zone that has been pushed here. Not ours. You are dealing with ex-LaRouchies who have seen the organization from its inside, and non-LaRouchies (like myself) who have watched it from the outside. Neither group is much impressed with the self serving statements emanating from the LaRouche organizations, and even less impressed by an overall philosophy that relies on rhetorical discussion rather than transformative action. I may be an ant who only moves one pebble from the entrance to the nest, but that is one less pebble in the way of progress. Now if I were a LaRouchie, no doubt I'd be singing the "God Ain't It Awful" blues about pebbles blocking progress. Try moving some pebbles Steven, you might find it more effective in the long run.

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-15-2005, 10:58 AM
Ealier in that address:
"We have three groups of people, to address:
One: We have people who are professional experts, and so forth, who may not always have the right opinion, but they have an understanding of some of the essential facts of the matter, and can conduct an intelligent, rational discussion, on some of these problem….
Then, we go to a second audience—together. The audience of the politicians—who really don't know anything, but they are in government, and they're going to have to make decisions. We must educate them….
Then, we have a third level of population: the citizens in general, especially the younger people, who are the spark plug of any recovery. They're the ones, who'll kick their parents, and others, into moving."
Mr. LaRouche represents the only solution to LEADERSHIP, he is not the only one that has the ability to lead. But he is the only one that has the GUTS to lead from the standpoint of those two largest issues which affect all of humanity. Ok, now, I challenge you to find another leader, comparable to the following that Mr. LaRouche has, the ability to match his, in effect, party machine, who is willing to say, "Absolutely no more wars. And 2, we are going to freeze international debt to save lives, and get the accounting system working to free up capital formation, for the benefit of the general welfare." One leader. You will find no one who gives international webcasts, who speaks to the leaders he speaks to, who Mr. Curtis admits but says is a charade, who has young and old support his intelligence and political capabilities with money and organizing power.
So, whereas Mr. LaRouche is not the only one with answers, nor is he the only humanist, he is the only Classical Humanist LEADER, who addresses, in every written or oral presentation, those two crises, which have been descending upon us.
Second, just so everyone knows where we stand, we can let the them and the Creator judge who is correct: You disagree with my statement that more lives are threatened by the economic and military policy than any other issue, in fact, ALL lives are affected to the detriment of these policies, even, in the long run, the very oligarchs who think they are getting ahead. I further add that the problem is not a voting problem, as such; it is an educational problem. The problem is that those who are eligible to vote are destroying representative democracy because they are unaware that by voting for these politicians with their known policies will depress living standards and depopulate the world in the manner which I have described. You disagree with all or parts of this proof of mine. I have proved sufficiently the incompetence of your approach, IF IT IS NOT SUPPLEMENTED by a international policy of the type that reverses the two prevailing trends in economic and military policy. My further characterization of your method is that you are removing a pebble from the path, meanwhile, the dam broke through and is going to wipe out your work and civilization along with it.
Your thoughts, please.
Steven

 

borisbad (borisbad)
07-15-2005, 03:50 PM
I remember well LaRouche's prognostications after Nixon took the dollar off gold that the entire world monetary system would collapse. Later came the OPEC oil crisis and the euro dollar bubble, which would trigger the world economic collapse. Then LaRouche predicted the world needed his international development bank (some of which sounded reasonably rational. For the last thirty years LaRouche has predicted the eminent destruction of humanity either through global nuclear war or AIDs or monetary collapse unless people gave their support (i.e. lots of money) to LaRouche. It's great to have big ideas for changing the world, but the problem is none of them have worked, ergo, maybe they are utopian. Worse however, is what LaRouche's message is if you disagree with him. Then you are an agent, an enemy of humanity, a Satan worship or whatever other nonsense he spews out.
Ask Mr. LaRouche if he ever told anti-semitic jokes like how many Jews can fit inside a VW? or his other jokes that showed how he was "free" of ADL intimidation. Ask him if he believes whether the Zionists concocted 9/11 as a way of pushing the neo-con agenda.
Yes, LaRouche is adept at picking up on currents that concern youths and other moral people. He did that during the Vietnam War years when he called himself a Marxist thinker before he felt it more profitable to seek contributions from Reaganites, Liberty Lobby and John Birch supporters, etc. all people of course who favor the rights of minorities and the end to conditions of devastation in the Third World.
And ask him why he gets to live in a nice estate while you live on $20 a week. Is it because of the continual assassination plans against him. I mean after all, since he was in jail for a number of years don't you think the government could easily have eliminated him if they really thought he was such a threat?
Lastly, I see you called Mr LaRouche a professor. When did he earn his PhD? Last I knew from his own autobiography he dropped out of Northwestern because of WWII and because of the futility of an advanced degree. In fact I remember one of his conferences where he stated that graduate degrees are the worst form of mental degredation.
I'm sure there are many groups active against the war in Iraq, and who don't like Cheney and Bush. Yet I don't think they require that you give your entire life over to a man who sees himself as God (but who used to rightly make fun of Stalinists and their cult of personality in his earlier days). As I left the organization almost twenty years ago, and was active in it since 1969, I think I have a little more appreciation for what went on. I remember how disgusted I was when we decided not only that we weren't Marxist, but to lie and pretend that LaRouche was never a Marxist but simply a person who tried to recruit out of student left circles. His thinking was exactly like good old Joe Stalin who erected his cult of personality and could conveniently cover over every twist and turn of his political philosophy and agenda to suit the moment.
At the moment LaRouche seeks to build support among concerned youth on college campuses but not that long ago he was in bed with the likes of the Liberty Lobby, all sorts of anti-Trilateral Comm. kooks, etc.) I believe he still is working with such people in Australia and New Zealand at the moment in their anti-Maori campaigns. No doubt the Maori haven't been exposed to the best of humanist culture as exemplified by LaRouche.
It takes more than citing books by Plato, Leibniz, etc. to be a humanist.

 

xylm (xylm)
07-15-2005, 04:16 PM
Stevengrendon,
I find it amusing that you are protective of our representative democracy when your movement (whether you are aware of this or not) favors aristocracy over democracy. Your beloved Plato is an aristocrat and your movement 'leaders' have dignified it publically. Sadly ironic too, you want people to voice out for some1 who will take away their voice. He has already taken away yours Steven, you sound just like him and i already know you havent made any self discoveries or innovations (reciting some1 elses work is not considered discovering). You are no different than the programmed larouchie standing next to you and collectively you larouchies have not done a thing but collect money for him and preach his rhetoric on the streets. You are the slave Steven, you should help yourself. There has always been misery, starvation, etc in history and there always will be...he is weighing the world's guilt on your shoulders as a pyschological mechanism, a shackle on your mind.

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-15-2005, 04:27 PM
Dear borisbad,
I genuinely appreciate your post, for many reasons.
When I began reading the message board, your posts seemed the most reasonable, for one, because you never made wild accusations that you did not otherwise sincerely thought to be proven. I think your honesty is testament to the good people that we all agree are attracted to Mr. LaRouche (former professor at various New England Universities, including, I believe Columbia).
And allow me to be honest further and say that it seemed to me that I could see myself in your position, if I were less optimistic. I really think the main difference is that you may think I am unrealistic about Mr. LaRouche and I would say that you are pessimistic about him, and the slanders over the years have sealed his fate in your mind.
That being said, I am very much open to continuing a productive dialogue with you in particular.
To address Mr. LaRouche's forecasts. Every time the monetary system experiences a shock, a point where income is exceeded by debt-service, a NEW system is needed, even though it may have the same name. For example, after the 1987 October stock market crash, the system collapsed, except for under new arraignments which made necessary the mathematical liquidity to keep any real debt reorganization from occurring, to allow for real productive stimuli.
In effect, the economy has "collapsed" several times, even monetarily, since the postwar period, when Mr. LaRouche made his forecasts. But MOST IMPORTANT again is the PHYSICAL consequences. While we sit here and debate whether or not the economic system has collapsed look at the PHYSICALLY looted sections of the WORLD (Africa and South American as easy case studies perhaps) population. The reason why we have been able to maintain monetary integrity to any degree has depended on our ability to loot the physical wealth of practically all nations of the world.
The point that Mr. LARouche makes now, is that the monetary system is successfully globalized now under the dollar with know where else to loot but Mars (joke). Except, now, the REAL Nazi looting is taking place. Africa is a good example of an advanced look at the possible near future of, say, South America.
Your thoughts, please.
Respectfully,
Steven

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-15-2005, 04:31 PM
I stand corrected. I agree with the founders of this republic, but also with the amendment to elect Senators through popular vote in this age of growing education. However that is less important, political structures can be debated. republic, democracy, monarchy, etc. What should remain common is a dedication to the Common Good, which transcends arbitrary will and depends on education, i.e. Truth and Love.
Steven

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-15-2005, 04:35 PM
P.S.
I took on the responsibility for the world's miseries long before Mr. LaRouche. However, now you are seeing someone who is intellectually stimulated to discuss answers, act on them, and be happy knowing we live in the best of all possible worlds.

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-15-2005, 04:43 PM
borisbad,
If you do not mind me asking, what is your current occupation.
Also, what are your analyses of present history, politically and economically. As brief or as detailed (hopefully the latter) as you wish would be appreciated.
Respectfully,
Steven

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
07-16-2005, 04:28 PM
Back from a nice trip with the family. I thought it was going to be a slow summer, but I guessed wrong. I can't compete with Larouche's powers of mentation by myself, so, I am bringing along some help from Yogi Berra to assist the yutes.
"This is like dejavu all over again"
Now that we have three decades of recruits who have come and gone, what do we find to be the common links? In most cases we have young people who wish to chnage the world in a positive way. Every grouping likes the idea of combining an improved cultural climate with an improved economic climate. But, yute being yute, no one wants to wait. The Larouche org provides an initial exposure to a world where there is a haromomious explanation for everything, providing you don't pay attention to the endless twists and turns based on Larouche's whims and Helga's expense account.
The economy has been forecasted to death for 40 years running. Civilization has been on the brink of nuclear war for 30 years. Satanism has been running policy for 20 years. Oh, and unless Larouche becomes president humanity will cease to exist has been running for over 35 years.
What has happened to the former members who left 30,20,10 years ago? Some are grandparents, some are PHD and Master's recognosed experts in their fields. Others have kids going to college or professional services, several became wealthy off patents or businesses, several are best selling authors or writers, several are lawyers, most have done better and kick themselves in the butt for not figuring things out soon enough. Thank God we have the web to help the current yutes speed up the education process.
"You can observe a lot just by watching."
Watch what happens at a LYM meeting when a current yute leader decides to give a class on some subject using the Larouche method. A little bit of info will be buried by an elaborate show of how this person fits into the Larouche world view. The audience has just returned from a walking tour and is half dazed. The class continues until a fresh potential recruit, who actually has some knowledge of the subject, challenges the class giver over several inaccuracies and errors and gross changes in the avtual history. Remember that the whole world of Larouche is based on an elaborate never ending world of "connecto". When someone off the street raises a question which is not part of Larocuehspeak, then hear the response of "That's academic" "Stop and think of what you are saying" or my favorite from the past "Your blocking".
Some of you here could give your experiences as I read a lot of them from people who meet yute at card table shrines and share their funny moments.
"Yeah, but we're making great time!"
Well, we have had over 35 years to make a mass movement. There are actually less members today then many years ago. Watching the National conferences on the web shows a lot of supporters dressed as empty chairs. The real sad and unhealthy people you see when the camera scans are the dead enders who can't leave since they have three decades invested in this and are flat broke and busted. The dollar signs dressed in gap clothes are the yutes. The only progress the org has made is that it seems to make new members much broker, quicker.
"You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there."
You think you are going to make a mass movement, but you won't. Divide the 10 million dollars spent on the last Larouche} campain by the votes and see the total. You would think that you could buy a mass movement for 10 million. The only movement you are going to see is a portion of the gate reciepts going to Europe and offshore accounts.
If you can't imitate him, don't copy him."
Here is the mistake yutes make when they are in public or with their family and friends. When you are adressing a fawning collection of sycophants who just maxed out their credit cards to save humanity, they WANT to believe that you are correct and know how to save humanity from a ghastly fate. Every get rich quick seminar shyster knows this which is why you get better applause when the audience paid $599.00 for your seminar than $5.99 , they have a lot invested.
When you take the Larouche show on the road, the general public figures out the insanity pretty quick while the few who gave a buck figure it out when they try to read the latest Larouche world view. In retrospect, our real role in the org was to coverup the Larouche insanity like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and the queen of England, and present a rationale explanation for our support of Fusion power and water projects.
"A nickel isn't worth a dime today."
Back in the 1980's during the worst brutalization of members, we gave them 5 bucks a day which was accepted since we were buying several 1/2 hour TV spots. We eventually gave people the equivalent of their rent, utilities and a 100 bucks per person in a weekly check for a while. The org bought the cars or paid the loans for cars which members took out. The current crop has its rent paid for, but sleeps quite a few to a room, comes into the movement with their cars paid by their parents in many cases and is given 20 bucks a week.
Now why 20 bucks? If you give people more money, than they can plan an escape to another place or do something strange like interact with other people in public places. Big mistake as people begin to learn that the world they have been living in was so closed that they now see and hear conflicting viewpoints and opinions. Having several people in an apt makes group dynamics much easier to control and cheaper to boot. No CNN for yutes and stay off that computer doing "larouche and antisemitism" or "larouche and fraud" googling.
Using my computer I searched for a CPI index calculator. Here is what the numbers show comparing 1984 dollars to 2005 dollars. 1984 is my reference point since Steven is 21 years old and he was just born when we were hijacking millions in our promissory note schemes.
Consider this yutes when you are given your 20 bucks a week.
In 1984 our 35dollars a week should be 65 dollars in 2005 dollars.
In 1984 when things got better we got $50 , or 94 bucks in 2005 dollars.
In 1984 we would have had to been given 11 bucks a week to equal yutes today.
Yes Steven, there has been an economic calamity of lowered wages and stagnant growth with massive loss of consumer purchasing power.
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it."
I really hope you persue an education at Yale rather than this nightmare you are contemplating. I , along with many other people here truly know the pangs of youth when you think you have the chance to really change the world and live a life of virtue and beauty. We have had now several generations of Larouche yutes to study. The early 70's left, mid 70's Mop Up, late 70's USLP, early 80's Dem race, mid 80's SDI /Reagan years, late 80's fraud trials, 90's prison years and the 2000 LYM
"I made a wrong mistake."
It took a while, but many of us figured out how this charade was taking place. Often, we saw snippets of things or heard stories which we did not wish to believe. I never intended to join an org which came to the conclusion that the world problems can always be tracked back to perfidous Jews. I never heard or saw a copy of the "Protocols" till I saw one of our early editions of the Dope Inc. book.
For today's yutes. Take a looong look at what the guest list at the Zayed center looks like. Take a looong look at how the writings of the "British/Zionist" cabals and conspiracies make their way through various fanatical groups and people. These crazies do not need any more hatred of Jews, but can sure use a very clever high class way of justifying their hatred with multi page proofs of how the Jews run the world. Take a good look at who is one the same wave length as Larouche. We did back in the late 70's and 80's when we were dancing with various people with hatred in their blood. That is why you do not find most of the members and leaders from that era in the group any more. We finally faced ourselves and admitted that we made a mistake, not in our principals, but whom we wished to work with.
"Half the lies they tell about me aren't true."
The LYM had a nice web site called "The Academy2004" running for a few months. The yutes were faced with a problem where former members would point out some things which were never revealed about the past. The wonderful thing about today's era is that we can look up and see for ourselves former documents and coverage which no one wanted to talk about. In my day, there was no way to look up the history and critiques in an easy fasion.
"I never said most of the things I said."
Case in point was in the last days of the Academy2004 web site. Steven, have you ever asked some of the old timers about the Cuban frogman assasination caper from 1974? Do you still look at Debbie Freeman the same way after learning about our nice civil way in dealing with Black Democrats back then?
"I wish I had an answer to that because I'm tired of answering that question"
Ever ask yourself how Lyn was convicted of Tax Evasion and sent to prison? Read the transcripts of the trial where Lyn is asked how he manages to travel like a jet setter, live in luxury estates, have an endless supply of body guards and servants, suits, teeth fixing, health care and food. Lyn said that he has no idea! It just happens. Look at his current FEC filing and figure out this happens on a $28,000 a year salary as an EIR editor.
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
Look at the theory presented to yutes about "building a movement" and see how it has turned out after 35 years. You would think that there would be a hell of a lot more subscribers to EIR, New Federalist, 21st Century and what not after 35 years. Oh wait, its the influence that were talking about since for a while, we never even mailed out publications. But, how do you influence world events of power brokers and the oligarchs when you mail stuff three months later. Of course you can snooker anyone who wants to believe a conspiracy explains why events are not turning out they way you think. We are masters at that.
"The future ain't what it used to be."
We were also hoping for that mass movement while Lyn and Helga were hoping for a coronation as King and Queen of the world. Funny how so many of the ex members went on to actually be a part of various think tanks, newspapaers, magazines, banks and groups. A few people have a lot to do with certain things like science and capital formation and third world development. The future is very bright for those who came to their senses early enough.
"There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em"
I have been in many more internal meetings and conferences than most of the yutes here. When you hear someone pledge their life to Lyn by stating that only through Lyn have they had their lives directed for good, then you have a big problem. It is a big problem because people who initially see the org base it on the good things already in them. You do not like a vapid culture, you want progress. You got those yourself through your experiences, not a Rheingau fueled leach who has as many stories as he needs to tell the next set of bodies.
The only people you will be owing anything to will be the creditors after you get through.
"We made too many wrong mistakes"
I would suggest that people should consider what many of us thought during a conference in Virginia many years ago. Lyn was always being quoted in what little media covered him as saying that "The Queen of England runs drugs". He would deny that on the interviews every time. Then we have his keynote where he proclaims that Queen runs drugs and always has. The mistake some of us made in the National Office was trying to get Lyn interviews and thinking that he could be rationale. After so many horrible and emberassing interviews and shows, we stopped lining up interviews and told him that the press was part of an assasination plot. He insisted on doing another show called "The Morton Downey Show" . Under pressure we saw Lyn almost collapse under questioning, yelling "shut up, shut up". At that point the only TV we would put him on was TV we bought and produced. It was that bad.
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future."
Your future will be a grim one as you age very fast, lose your education and gain a big debt. The years go by fast. Lyn has good genetics and will live a while since you are his pension plan. Helga will have more upgrades to the castle in Germany. The dead enders in Leesburg will continue to age badly and die off to no fanfare. People will move forward and you will be stuck at card table shrines for the 2008 run. When you leave, your body is gone, but not the bills.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com
Steven, what do you think of this site:
http://www.marssociety.org/

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-16-2005, 05:50 PM
Dear Mr. Curtis,
You are a most intriguing person, I must admit. Indeed, Voltaire's pessimism cowers in comparison.
I enjoyed your "Come on!" argument trying to slander Mr. LaRouche's historiography method as "connectos," but that is all it was: "how can there be a coherent conception of universal history? I mean, Come on!"
In the interest of returning the favor, I characterize your method of story-telling: mention an event that occurred in the ICLC history, pile on some pessimism, sugar coat with a blasphemous lie about either how Mr. LaRouche manages to read all day and be a drunkard at the same time, or a disgusting slander about Mr. Rubenstein's first wife, followed by another round giving us your pile of pessimism. And in all this "discourse, somehow you manage to evade discussing any real problems that face humanity today, including the genuine discussion that had the potential to begin on this message board before you let us all know how pessimistic you are.
(BTW, at first glance, the site looks good in mission and purpose. Mr. LaRouche, if I may say so myself, would welcome an endorsement of his policy for nuclear-powered space flight to boot.)
Consider this. You seem to be quite the clever man. Although, perhaps you view Leibniz as Pangloss, and prefer Votaire's pessimistic Candide to Leibniz' Monadology, since "cleverness", as Volatire shows us, is not to be misunderstood as "knowledgeable." Knowledge involves principle and ideas of causation.
If Mr. LaRouche is the same man we have seen described in the Curtis Bizarro World, then indeed he is no mere crook, or insane man. The Mr. LaRouche in the Curtis Bizarro World is the absolute most Evil Genius that has ever stepped foot on this earth. This must be true, since we all have studied his work, and his mastered thesis on proving the essential theology of the Monadology, that is the reality of universal principles of change, and he worked consciously AGAINST those ideas, in full knowledge of them, then he truly is a satanic figure. In all my study, I have never come across such a witting evil man as the Curtis Bizarro World's "LHL."
Back to reality. Mr. Curtis, have you ever discovered an "idea" before? A universal principle of change? I find it hard to believe that in all those years in the organization, you never discovered this principle of humanism (found in Beyond Psychoanalysis): "Freedom means initially the conditions favorable to the discovery and propagation of new fundamental laws, new ways of doing things, by individuals. Freedom means initially the conditions favorable to the discovery and propagation of new fundamental laws, new ways of doing things, by individuals. Humanism is therefore also occupied with the conditions required to produce such gifted individuals, the material and political conditions necessary to produce the numbers and varieties of gifted individuals society requires for maintaining the necessary rate of general progress. As a corollary, humanism is also occupied with the material and political conditions of the population more generally, its mobility, cultural development, and material preconditions of cultural development: that new inventions might be realized for practice by a general society culturally qualified to assimilate the conceptions involved in such practice."
This is the universal method, which we historians use to guide us in our investigations of past and current history, and it is how we forecast our adversities and progress for the future.
Respectfully,
Steven

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-16-2005, 06:18 PM
And I left out a key element to your method. After the pessimism, you rely on us to accept what ever intention you attribute to Mr. LaRouche, when it runs in absolute contradiction to all of his written and oral reports. And "intention" is key. And let me say this for everyone to focuss in on: all the other discrepencies that we have confronted aside, the most important decoding key to to unlock the true intentions of Mr. LaRouche, on the one hand, and the intentions of the Curtis Bizarro World, on the other.
Steven

 

wanderer (wanderer)
07-16-2005, 09:53 PM
Dear Steven,
You ignore history and experience when it is not interpreted and interrupted by Mr. La Rouche.
All you have to offer is rhetoric and sophistry.
Actions speak louder than words and if Mr. La Rouche has no actions or achievements for you to point to then you are indeed following a craven image or clay footed idol.

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
07-16-2005, 11:03 PM
Steven, I was 21 myself many years ago. It is very hard to sometimes take advice from a person who is 2 to 3 times your age. I did not wish to see the people I associated with get hurt both physically and emotionally. For many years I hoped that things would change, it didn't. I had no glee in seeing people I knew go to prison. The amount of money we spent on lawyers was far greater than the disputed funds from the complaintants in many cases.
My core beliefs and virtues never changed. I just changed the atmosphere of the people I worked with. There are friends I have from a long time ago whom I still enjoy talking to and seeing how their lives have improved and the good works they have done.
When you see a person do something like buying a known lemon of a car, you can either ignore it, gloat over it or show the recall notices. My life is not one of gloating or ignoring. My intial entry into the group was to make changes very fast and powerfull. The years went by fast, faster than the questions I was asking myself and others. When most of the questions had irrational answers by the structure of the org, then it was time to leave.
The amount of good I can admit to is far greater now than what ever I imagined I was doing back then. The one thing I can truly thank the LC for is making me very sensitive to how hucksters and hate groups work. In many arenas in life, we are often influenced by simple solutions for complex problems. Jingoistic sayings rather than a critical look at a decision. Hucksters with the sizzle who do not reveal their ulterior motives.
You really understand that "The cult of Personality" is not just a song or an expression.
Am I cynical or pessimistic? Absolutely not. There is an unbeknowst joy in raising and providing for a family. I do not have a picket fence but a trellis of green and plants around my abode. There is no one to tell me that every single group or club is part of an evil 6,000 year conspiracy.
I am free to explore, to read, to watch, to listen and to decide for myself. The check to the bank for my living accomodations is covered by me through my talents and skills, not an NC. My checks don't bounce and I do not have to move every few months to evade the vendors. There are real live people who depend on me showing up. Life is not an abstraction of imagined hoardes who will die if Larouche does not become the president or Grand Poobah. When I ask superiors for changes in policies/procedures, I am welcomed and the CEO does not tell me that "Why are you bothering us about this? Don't you know that a nuclear bomb can drop on us any minute".
Consider me critical in that I now value experience in making decisions, something I did not think highly of back in the 70's.
Keep on reading that Mars web site and see how extensive and how much work is getting done. If yutes were reading magazines and watching various shows on Discovery and Cspan, they would wonder how is all of this getting accomplished with real results.
If you have enough smarts to get into Yale, think what avenues open up after you leave. Either your talents will be exploited, or you exploit your talents at your choosing. We once recruited a real smart yute who was on his way to Princeton with a math scholarship. Think how valuable an African American mathematics genius would be for the US economy and for the cultural divide. I do not know what happend to him, but every time I see an issue of popular Black magazine with and African American on the cover who runs a vast business or is a prolific inventor, I think of what could have been.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-17-2005, 02:27 AM
Dear Mr. Curtis,
I appreciate your recent post; the sincerity is unmatched by the previous ones. Let us talk.
Nominally, you know more actual history about Mr. LaRouche's movement than I, in terms of events and experience. Let me be honest in saying that I am suspect in your characterizations. At this point, I think you may have been fooled and continue to not understand the actual merits of the organization. But let us talk.
Being that I am not as versed in the predicates of the history of the organization, I have to rely on my more comprehensive understanding of universal history to guide my investigations.
So let me ask you this, as I think it will help me understand a bit more of how you are thinking. Is the American System of political-economy, a.k.a FDR economics, public works, investment in "hard" and "soft" infrastructure, debt reorganization, Apollo-style investment in nuclear R&D, and promotion of Classical Humanist universal education the best policy to support? Is it one of the bests? Should not the Democratic Party renew its dedication to these intentions? Why is it not doing that?
Also, is promoting an immediate ceasefire for the current conflicts in Iraq and Israel etc. necessary? Then exchanging the U.S. sitting ducks (a.k.a. soldiers) for Middle East-sponsored security forces, backed by a treaty agreement from that region? Should not that treaty agreement include economic development plans to secure nuclear desalination plants, in order to stimulate the agricultural sector as well as provide cheap and clean energy for the overall development? Is not it necessary to forgive Third World debt in order to promote a Treaty of Westphalia intention for Colbertian cameralism development?
Please address these specifically. Because I have put in the work to come to understand that lives tangibly do rest upon these very potential policies. My thesis on these matters is unrivaled and not for arbitrary reason. Break the backbone of these arguments and you have broken the spell of "the evil LHL."
Steven

 

borisbad (borisbad)
07-17-2005, 08:43 AM
I would like to discuss occupations but that is not too relevant, except to say that I went back to school and obtained a career that I believe may actually make some contributions to society. I also try and remain active in politics but on a decidedly more local level.
I wouldn't agree that LaRouche is the most diabolical evil genius in the world because other than betraying many people to his cause to save the world, I don't think he has been quite as successful as the Scientologists and Moonies who probably are raking in billions to LaRouche's millions. I'm afraid by the standards of Scientology, who after all have Tom Cruise and John Travolta promoting the agenda publicly now, LaRouche is still kind of small potatoes.
As for LaRouche's programs, the thing that decidedly always made my skin crawl was how LaRouche could take some positive ideas concerning third world debt; or exposing youth to the wonders of the renaissance; or building an "FDR" type alliance, and then always throw in the Queen of England, or the Zionist conspiracies, or how every evil force in the world was out to assassinate him. I remember being out at literature tables promoting what seemed like sane ideas like fusion energy development and such and then having to make up sophist arguments like "beam weapons for peace" etc. And there was nothing like promoting a march supposedly in memory of Martin Luther King, Jr. based upon those same beam weapons as if this was something MLK would have been actively for (who died when he began combining anti-war protests with the Civil Rights Movement). And going to black churches at the same time we were trying to raise money from the most rabidly racist, xenophobic right wingers like the Hunt Brothers, etc.
The thing about LaRouche is his chameleon capabilities to angle his message to his various audiences. Yes there were many fine ideas that drew activists to him at different points in history, but the main thing was he always managed to keep people in line by running one emergency mobilization after another, creating "threats" of assassination, etc. where none existed, and making everyone believe it was "us versus them" to keep people in a decidedly paranoid state of mind.
I'm sure there are many other groups that are seeking some kind of peace in the Mid-East, and who favor economic development. Debt relief was even going to be a topic at the G-8 summit (but I guess the synarchists or trilateralists or whoever) conducted this bombing to undermine it and then blame it on radical muslim groups).

 

dave72 (dave72)
07-17-2005, 01:02 PM
From: LAROUCHE'S FOURTH OF JULY ADDRESS
July 4, 2005
"As I said in Berlin last week: suddenly, very soon, the entirety of the present world monetary-financial system will collapse. It will come like a Summer thunderstorm, far more devastating than anything we have experienced during the recent two centuries. If I told you all that I know about this onrushing collapse, it would stagger your imagination. So, rather than telling you how bad the situation actually is, I shall do as I did in the closed door seminar held in Berlin last week. I shall tell you just enough about the origins and outcome of this presently onrushing crisis, that you might understand the way in which the presently onrushing collapse of the world economy can be overcome, hopefully in the nick of time"
There you go.... that is from two weeks ago. It was a speech like that gave me the final push to join the LC more 20 years ago. When you're first exposed to the LC a speech like that is incredibly powerful and inspiring. After awhile it gets a little stale and then finally a little silly. Either the collapse comes "very soon" or it does not. It is no different from the "end of the word" cults where the end keeps not coming. It is amusing when Larouche followers accuse people who reject the doomsday scenario of being pessimists.

 

kheris (kheris)
07-17-2005, 02:15 PM
Steven
The Treaty of Westphalia is based on the underlying notion that the existence of a sovereign government is all that matters and therefore due props are to be given to any country with a sovereign government.
The legitimacy of that government (i.e. does it have the consent of the people it rules vs imposing itself on the people) is irrelevant. The underlying American philosophy is that the legitimacy of the government matters. Any government that is imposed on the people cannot, in the long view, be sovereign (exigencies of real life diplomacy notwithstanding). This is what drove the Founding Fathers and the Declaration.
LHL favors the Treaty so can we then extrapolate that the legitimacy of a government is irrelevant to him?

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
07-17-2005, 10:29 PM
Dave72, what a small world. I was thinking the exact same thing when I read the July 4th Germany speech as well. My sentiments exactly. Thinking back to the days when I was a wee bit younger than Steven, I too remember the bold prognostication of an economy ready to blow up in a whirlwind.
Back in the 1970's, we faced gas lines, plant shutdowns, people leaving urban areas, and something Jimmy Carter called "the malaise". What is very apparent in our publications and organising was that LHL explained everything as a conscience plot by the Rockefellers to shut down the world and impose a world system run by Rocky. There was no such thing as an economy which was influenced by overseas events, labor, energy costs, money supply, spending or a host of other things which have more influence than David and Nelson Rockefeller.
I will be the first to admit Steven that I looked for simple answers for a complex world. The attraction of a LHL is that in a two hour address, we solved all of the world's problems, if only Lyn was in the Whitehouse. What was memorable were the numerous doomsday forecasts for each quarter where the debt could not be paid, and the whole system would go crashing down. The auto and steel workers would rise up and we would lead them! Remember the days of the Beethoven Caucus of the UAW! I think the Auto workers did not show up for their classes because the Chryslers that they were all driving broke down on the way to our offices, the Pintos exploded and the Vega's engine melted.
The inner cities would throw away their chains of hustler/pimp oppression, drug usage, Jazz records and ghetto gangs along with black mothers would also ask us to lead in the crisis. It did work as I seem to remember that we had about 6 black guys who did just that and a black welfare mother from NYC who at the end of each conference session would rise and say "We got to print this up and get it out to the people" amid a thunderous ovation.
The scientific community would recognise that Lyn and the org were right in explaining that the Three Mile Island meltdown was a hoax done by the "Dark Ages" and Zero Pop Growth/limits to growth mob. They, along with the evil environmentalist movement, Jane Fonda and Hollywood through the China Syndrome movie, with Jimmy Carter and FEMA, ran the hoax to destroy Nuclear Power and set back science a thousand years.
The "Yahoos" (US Patriots, not a search engine) would rise up with ex and current military and Intell people and overthrow the Jimmy Carter regime of the CFR and Trilats and also ask Lyn to lead the way.
Steven, we were hoplessly lost in a whirlwind of delusions and paranoia being led by a man of delusions and paranoia. He was better than every one else, we were better than everyone else. He would stand up to the massive international Oligarchs, we would stand up. He thought and wrote that there was a kernal of truth in the "Protocals of Zion" and only a million and half Jews died in the Holocost, and we ........ ran like hell away. Each according to his or her schedule and level of toleration. It also took some time to raise enough cash and figure out how to return back to the real world.
Lord I wish we had the internet back then. I could have done what a lot of yutes do today and run a search of Larouche, and than add "anti semite", "fraud", "criminal", "hate" , "Jeremiah Duggan", "Tax fraud" , "cult" etc...
Here is a real left winger from the SWP days and his comments on Lyn. Read the whole thing as I just pasted a few paragraphs. I have no idea in hell of the world of Leftist politics, but we had to wait until he wrote a book in the 1990's to get these gems.
http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/Wohlforth.html
Wohlforth writes:
"This scheme, which shaped LaRouche writings and agitation in the late '60s and early '70s, was presented in an increasingly frenetic manner, bolstered by predictions of economic doom. LaRouche was a crisis-monger of the highest order. LaRouche and his followers became increasingly convinced that the fate of the world rested with their group and their great leader. The problem lay with the stupidity of the nation's leaders and the boorishness of the masses. If only LaRouche were in power, all the world's troubles - perhaps even the rats problem in New York City - would be resolved swiftly."
"In the summer of 1965 I headed a small group of Trotskyists, the American Committee for the Fourth International (ACFI), which had split from the SWP in September 1964. LaRouche and his new wife, Carol, left the SWP and joined our small group. For about six months thereafter I met with LaRouche almost everyday."
"The LaRouches lived in a small, cluttered apartment in Manhattan's West Village that was filled with books, documents and a portable typewriter. I saw no signs that he was holding a job. LaRouche churned out lengthy typewritten documents. He had already developed many of the basic ideas that flowered in his days as an independent leftist and that he later adapted to his rightist politics."
"LaRouche had a gargantuan ego. Convinced he was a genius, he combined his strong conviction in his own abilities with an arrogance expressed in the cadences of upper-class New England. He assumed that the comment in the Communist Manifesto that "a small section of the ruling class cuts itself adrift, and joins the revolutionary class..." was written specifically for him. And he believed that the working class was lucky to obtain his services."

  • **
    Since you ask the following of us. This will be broken down in segments over the week. You ask a lot, but I think the economy does better with yutes getting cutting edge degrees than just being cut to a degree by the org.
    "So let me ask you this, as I think it will help me understand a bit more of how you are thinking. Is the American System of political-economy, a.k.a FDR economics, public works, investment in "hard" and "soft" infrastructure, debt reorganization, Apollo-style investment in nuclear R&D, and promotion of Classical Humanist universal education the best policy to support? Is it one of the bests? Should not the Democratic Party renew its dedication to these intentions? Why is it not doing that? "
    The first item I wish to explain is debt. I am not an economist, but I have debt, a lot more debt than my parents, who had more debt than their parents. I have way more debt than I had in the org.
    However, my debt is being serviced, temporary and is used mainly on assets. Lets compare two economic systems. The Larouche system and a typical US home owner, of which @ 67 % of the US households are.
    Lets take an arbitrary number, say $40,000. In the Larouche system, you take a yute and have him do cash advances till he or she maxes out their card. Since you are waiting for the org to cut you a check, you can only make the minimum payment each month to save humanity from catastrophe. Even with an increase in the minimum payments this fall, you still have several years of interest payments at unpredictable rates. The yute is not just broke, but now in the hole with nothing but another reason why he can't get paid each month.
    Another person borrows $40,000 on a fifteen/thirty or ARM year mortgage, with various interest rates available. The money goes to buy a simple condo with the remainder in cash. Over the course of a few years, our hero has now a place to live, a tax deduction and in most cases, an increasing asset. Our hero stays there until he or she needs to move up, then the place is sold, the debt paid off, but the person takes on a higher loan. But the loan is for a bigger asset and there is more money to pay, so the balance is in check. The bank has a performing loan on its books and makes most of the profit in the early years.
    Things happen, the bank may take over the place if the loan is not serviceble. There is a whole other secondary market to liquidate and the finance company has built in risk in its calculations. It aint usury, its how more Americans than anywhere on the planet own homes. It is a complex business that has numerous sub businesses working with it. In a free market you have numerous factors that come into play.
    You can also be foolish, just like some nations and LC members in Leesburg have done. Both borrowed more than they should, money was lost in bad scemes, bad choices and outright fraud. I would consider African nations better credit risks then some LC Leesburg homeowners.
    We had a whole movement based on attacking every economist and in typical fasion, we would attack them in a paragraph, link them to a grand conspiracy and tell the members that if only Lyn was in charge, there would be growth. No one in the field read business magazines, business reports or studied macro or micro economics or any thing which . If Lyn said that so and so was an agent of the Oligarchs, you sure did not go out and read the book and ask questions in a class. The guys and girls who ran our economic sector left in the 80's and actually work in economics. There are PHD level people who write legislation and critique it on the Federal level, several economics reporters who cover very complex sectors, a person who has to make decisions which determine an international bank's investment strategy and shmucks like myself who have to make decisions which effect my families well being. Since these people live and work in the real world, they disagree and often have conflicting views. But, those views get settled in real world finance, not a game of calling for trillion dollar Maglev trains when you can take a jet anywhere you want for 69 bucks off peak.
    Each person I mentioned left the National office, continued their education and became an expert and recognised leader in their field. How about the remaining dead ender who writes articles for the EIR? He makes ends meet by teaching part time as a sub in school , faces a household I do not wish to describe and does not have a pot to pee in.
    How about the guy/girl who lends or gives the org $40,000? He/she has nothing which can grow, can't cover the debt and has an albatross around his or her neck. That person will want to believe everything they hear and definately not want to listen to us, for a while.
    What does this have to do with Lyn's economics? Well to begin, Lyn for most of his life either had his wives making the rent payments or us covering his tab. The world's greatest economist some how had a supporter buy a massive hundred acre estate for him to live in. All we had to do was to just pay the guy enough to cover his mtge. He would have the estate as an asset. Of course, we did not pay and he lost everything. Helga, equal in stature and international financial genius, had the org pay nearly a hundred thousands of dollars by one estimate to install a ridng area, horse barn and a swimming pool along with security shacks on a property which we did not even own!
    Try to figure that out. All I know is those were the days when Lyn would walk around the halls of the estate and meet some of us wearing his skivies and a shoulder hoster with a pistol.
    Try to also figure out how the org was able to buy land in Northern Virgina for a song, lose it, and now see it worth hundreds of millions of dollars. That maybe why Lyn is so ed off at McMansions. A whole development of them occupy the land Helga's horses used to roam.
    We will figure more out later.
    xlcr4life@hotmail.com
 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-18-2005, 02:24 AM
Look. In all honesty, as a matter of public record, not one of you actually believes that I am wrong about economics or military policy. Not one. Or, at teh very least, you are unwilling to confront it head on.
The problem is, is that I value EDUCATION more than any of you. We need to educate the average ignorant citizen of the reality which is controlling world affairs in general. Follow my footsteps. Come to my home. Come with me, follow me to the "cream of the crop" in the world, teh so-called leading nation of the world, its leading suburban citizens, and as them what the reality of the state of world affairs is. You guys are in an absolute dream world. Address my questions. One by one. How do they operate day to day. The average citizen is a hopeless cause, unless he or she is confronted by a "LaRouchie" in a college campus, at a bank, outside of a Wal-Mart, etc. Prove me wrong. I would love it if you did, but the scientific fact is that no one is willing to. In terms of acadamia and intellectual integrity, not one person here has had the ability or even the will to answer the tough questions. I do. So I fight. And you live by youselves reinforcing yourselves that everything is as it is andyo will "act locally" to appreciate the Gods of Olympus who demand it to be so.
I tell you, no side-stepping will be substituted for proof. And at this point, I know many of you are simply to tired to wait for lasting chang, even if it means that you must wait for results to occur after your mortal life. I, and Dante, do not feel the need for such sensuous gratification.
Steven

 

anon127 (anon127)
07-18-2005, 03:31 AM
if u hv read the earlier posts carefully, steven -- there was mention that people r not unhappy abt God, they r unhappy abt a certain high priest molesting children and going shopping using church funds -- in the name of God.
this website is abt the practices of that high priest -- sure in front of some people, that priest talks abt making the world a better place, was "right" abt this or that politician being corrupt, "highlighted" some problems in this world, development problems, etc...
but the same priest also has been known to go wild - a bit beyond psychoanalysis - been shifting his interpretations of world history every now and then, and has been known to hv questionable finances.
and those who knows that priest in private, have seen some very questionable character issues.
your problem steven, is u got swindled into thinking larouche "owns" these issues, or the ideas.
lhl is just living off the perception of a "fight". there is no "fight"...it's how he makes his living. u either find out in 30 seconds, or in 30 years.

 

kheris (kheris)
07-18-2005, 03:48 AM
Steven
On the contrary, we are all knowledgeable about various economic and military issues that need attention. The difference is that we may not describe them the way you do, we may see issues where you don't, and we don't rely on simplistic statements or solutions. The real world is covered in shades of gray, and solutions seldom can be implemented as neatly as we would like. That is not a reason to stop trying, and it is a reason that the youth of every generation has always stepped forward with the energy and ideas to cut through some of the deadwood and move forward.
Unfortunately, there are folks who assume, falsely I think, that the electorate doesn't get it. They get it a lot more than many so-called leaders and leader wannabes realize, but they are overwhelmed at the enormity of what is facing them.
What does Wohlforth say about LHL's outlook? The problem lay with the stupidity of the nation's leaders and the boorishness of the masses.
What does Steven G Rendon say? The average citizen is a hopeless cause, unless he or she is confronted by a "LaRouchie" in a college campus, at a bank, outside of a Wal-Mart, etc. Prove me wrong. I would love it if you did, but the scientific fact is that no one is willing to. In terms of acadamia and intellectual integrity, not one person here has had the ability or even the will to answer the tough questions. I do.
Given that Wohlforth's characterization of LHL's perspective is so in sync with Steven's perspective of the average citizen, one can hardly call it slander to say that LHL promulgates a pessimistic view.
I spent a weekend at an annual seminar run by people who have a pretty fair notion of the issues at hand, and might, in general terms, agree with you. But they are not interested in LHL's solutions (Mayhew made it clear LHL would not be interested in them) and are busy implementing their own. These are very well educated people, whose education did not end at academia's doors and has been further burnished in the real life struggle of educating and aiding others.
They do indeed "act locally" with solutions that can be shared across the globe. They also don't operate with underlying assumptions about the boorishness of the masses or that the average citizen is a hopeless cause without their special leadership. They have a far more positive outlook regarding humanity and its capablity to change the present and shape the future.
Given the choice of being greeted as boorish and a helpless cause without the benefit of a given person's leadership, or as a person capable of bringing transformative change because it is innately a feature of being human, which group do you think I would sign up with? In my case I can say with a certainty that I can't take seriously someone who insults my intelligence, and questions my innate dignity as a person by characterizing me as a boor or a hopeless cause at the outset.
I wondered how long it would be before you would speak the unspeakable and reveal your honest opinion about those who lack your special understanding of how things should be.

 

jamesstjohnsmythe (jamesstjohnsmythe)
07-18-2005, 05:44 AM
Steven-
First - You come to this board "preaching" about the present world monetary-financial collapse. This is not an economics message board, this is a "LaRouche" board, which this is a discussion board former members, non-members, and curious people to discuss and debate LHL's "Mr. Hyde" side. If you want to discuss economics so bad then may I suggest two alternatives:
1)Try searching the FACTNet Message boards, I'm quite sure there is a economics board.
2)According to LHL, economics taught at all universities only teach Free Trade, Globalization, Deregulation, etc. Since you're attending Yale(I'm very sure Yale has economic classes), why don't you take the economic courses or better yet engage a dialogue with the economic students. You never know you might encounter a economics student who happens to be a conservative, then you'll have a very interesting discussion.
The problem is, is that I value EDUCATION more than any of you.
Second - You should work on your arrogance cause it gets you nowhere. It's something an elitist and a conservative would say, and conservatives do believe "Education is for elites only!". Now since the holes in your arguments have been exposed, you put people down in this board as a last resort. Remember this previous post?
Otherwise, as my mother always used to say, "Kids will be kids!" The "I'm better than you" remark is undoubtly childish, don't you agree? Everybody values education but sometimes it takes some people longer to realize it. Education is a process of learning and making discoveries to move forward in order to gasp of higher plains of thought.
Third - You contradict yourself! First off you worship LHL, read all his papers(or so you claim), and talk highly of the LYM. But you only joined part-time for a couple of months and left to enroll in Yale? If you were serious about "the fight" you would join full-time, even a LYM member would tell you that. If you recall, LHL stated "the education at US colleges and universities is horrible cause you don't make any discoveries, only memorizing what the professor says!" I'm trying to figure out your logic, as it makes as much sence as a group of LHL haters sending hundreds of dollars to LHL and his LYM. At first I thought you went to Yale to compare educations, seeing if LHL was right or not. But the more I read your post, the more I questioned and trying to figure out your motives. So I came up with 3 possible answers:
1)Yale is not working out as previously planned(as I stated in my last post).
2)Your talked into enroll in Yale by your parents
3)Your old friends from HS or the neighborhood are at Yale.
But it still comes down to contradiction. You should know, if you talk to a LYM member, he or she will tell you parts from "The Children of Satan 3". Like how Henry Luse(the founder of Time magazine), Prescott Bush along with other pro fascist people were apart of the Skull and Bones society at Yale. And most likely would tell you to drop out of Yale and join full-time.
P.S. I will tell my friends you said hi! ;)
I said my goodbyes for good to the LYM a long time ago! But thanks for the offer.
James St.John Smythe

 

wanderer (wanderer)
07-18-2005, 07:34 AM
Steven hasn't researched the answers. He hasn't even asked the questions. He's relied on the LHL heirarchy to tell him which questions are to be asked and then soaked up their answers. He's ignoring any questions that don't suit his lifestyle choice.
He's scared of being educated.
Steven -
When was the last time Mr. La Rouche did something that showed his solidarity with you, his workers?
Which card table literature sale did he man and for how long?
When and how did he demonstrate his care and concern for those who are providing him with his daily bread?
When did he last take out one of the LYM for a meal or give them a gift in thanks for their efforts.
Remember Steven, talk comes cheap. If someone values your efforts, they'll pay for it. That's good economics.

 

xylm (xylm)
07-18-2005, 11:18 AM
Steven,
You are right, some of these foreign economic problems are very real. However, the problem of your imposed awareness on these issues is your reluctance or lack of effort to find the relationship between these facts and Larouche's premises. For instance, Larouche blames the looting on foreign countries to have been paved via Henry Kissinger's (jew) influence and establishment of our floating exchange rate. The examples Larouche uproots from this scandal are George Soros (jew) and George Schultz (jew). Now according to Lyn, these anti-humanist (or jews) are able to buy large sums of foreign currencies at a degree where their purchasing power can influence an emissive surge in the foreign currency value whereas they would immediately sell it back at a profit causing significant instability to the victimized foreign economy. Lyn's solution is to replace this floating exchange rate with FDR's fixed exchange rate. Now the gap in Larouche's logic (the nonexistent relationship) is that fact that a fixed exchange rate would allow the people, the masses, the commoners themselves to conduct these very anti-humanist currency swaps Larouche exemplifies in his insidious Jew bashing. If you took the time to learn about the fixed exchange rate at least a quarter of the time you took to read Larouche's rhetoric, you would realize this immediately –it is actually fundamental. I can further explain this fundamental fixed exchange rate problem at your request. The question is not whether economic problems exist or whether a policy (floating exchange rate) should be replaced, but it is the relationship between these facts and Larouche's premise. Larouche is the master at finding the world's "wrongs" and manifesting them into his veneering agenda and rhetoric. You can probably take any paragraph Larouche wrote, and you would be able to pull out several brainwashing vocabulary from each sentence, i.e. "Satanist, usurers, british agents, alice-in-wonderland explanation, cold blooded killer, whore of Babylon". Unfortunately, most of the terms I references have hidden meanings (usurers, british agents, whore of Babylon = jews). But you young Larouchies don't realize this and end up preaching philosophy A when Lyn is preaching philosophy B. I want you to be more attentive about this in your next readings Steven and I also want you to notice that your fellow members speak the same –they use the exact same vocabulary words as Phil and Harley (spokemen). These are the traits of sophists…

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
07-18-2005, 11:32 AM
"So let me ask you this, as I think it will help me understand a bit more of how you are thinking. Is the American System of political-economy, a.k.a FDR economics, public works, investment in "hard" and "soft" infrastructure, debt reorganization, Apollo-style investment in nuclear R&D, and promotion of Classical Humanist universal education the best policy to support? Is it one of the bests? Should not the Democratic Party renew its dedication to these intentions? Why is it not doing that? "
Well, since Steven wants to know, let me explain some things . What is important is that many of us have real things to accomplish on a daily basis for long term changes at every level. The forum is one to provide people with a source of information about Larouche and his posse.
What the org does very well for people is to so isolate them from interaction with everyday institutions, that it is easy to just attack every one and create an illusion that no one knows anything outside of the org. Many former members who left have remarked to me about how shocked they were when they found out that there is a wealth of cultural clubs, civic groups, local boards who tackle education, classical music societies and concerts, artists and acting troupes who put on Shakespeare plays. When your day begins at a card table shrine and ends with a late night class on how the latest mobiliazation to put Lyn in the White house is determined by how many people can read Schiller in German, your time to explore the outside world is very limited.
What the org should tell you Steve is that people are persuing many avenues of interests who do not care what a delusional man has to say about it. I bet that many people here can give an example of what happened when we went to a meeting of almost any group and did a "Larouche Gone Wild" show and scared the bejesus out of them. Of course, we were never invited back and then told the members that "our ADL enemies have harrased our contacts" and ended this by now saying that so and so of this so and so group is part of the conspiracy.
Yes Steven there is a conspiracy against Larouche. The same way a conspiracy develops by average people who get confronted by vagrants on the way to work who mumble to themselves every day. After your first contact and hope that the vagrant is normal, you then realise the person needs help and never make eye contact again. The beauty of the web is that I can find an endless stream of blogs and articles by people who have met a LYMer and describe their encounter in identical descriptions.
You want to study American System economics? How are you going to figure that out if Lyn has made Adam Smith and the Wealth of Nations the most evil book on the planet? How are you going to understand what a free market is if the major reference work on this is on par with Satanism? You want to understand the the role of the consumer in shaping policy and forcing business and government to adapt? You sure ain't gonna figure that out if Milton Friedman is an enemy of Larouche. After I left, I used to watch a running series on economics from a local universtiy on PBS. It was a shock to find out that there are different views of doing things, having them and the proponents of them explained and seeing a comparison of national economies who have evolved their systems compared to fixed top down planning. Lyn likes top down planning because in his world, everything works better top down.
Public works spending? You do that everytime you pay a sales tax and gas up the tank. We have a federal budget in the trillions which has money distributed via a congress which wants to to do the most for its local area.
We spend a lot of money in research using public money, but, we spend a lot more using private venture capital. We have several layers of capital financing through investment firms who hope to be on the ground floor of the newest technology. Look at the daily newspaper and see how many Mutual funds there are which deal in every sector of the economy. Their interest is in growing that business. Many states and localities are pumping billions into bio tech research and stem cell facilities. We spend a fortune on Medicare and health costs and have a huge public/private investment in researching the best strategies. If a LYM was a member of a professional society with a monthly newsletter, then you would have no trouble seeing how fast and busy people are.
We subsidise energy development with tax credits. When I was in the org we used to routinely call any one who favored solar and wind power as a fascist who wants to kill the population. Pick up a copy of Forbes or Business week or other business mags and see endless articles on how GE, BP are generating a lot of power with this. You will also see how there are thousands of very talented scientists , engineers and business people who are spending a lot of money making breakthroughs every month.
Pick up a copy of Popular Science or Discover or watch the science networks on TV and see how billions of dollars and a world wide army of people get up every day and try to invent, perfect and market new ideas for the globe. You aint gonna see Larouche whining about how only scientists who know the reals secrets of the British/Zionists can do research. Watch next month when they provide the footage of how we hit the comet in space.
I have a few kids. Do you think they would learn more about science and progress watching a tape of Lyn or the many episodes of a great TV show called "Bill Nye the Science Guy"? Bill, Bill, Bill, Bill. Thank you Disney.
When you have kids you pay attention to science fairs at schools. The ones I go to run by my school system blow away any thing I have seen done by LYM college drop outs. The depth of what I have seen in robotics, computer theory, bio chemical processes, fuel cell devises and mechanical constructs and statistics. This aint a piece of a coat hanger dipped into soap bubbles.
If you live in the real world then you go to PTA meetings and you meet your kids teachers and you work to improve reading and math skills. You weed out bad spending and you elect school boards to carry that out. This goes on every day in the real world.
If you wish to see what happens about debt in the developing sector, there are plenty of people like Bono of U2, Jeffrey Sachs, Religious leaders like Pope John Paul and the Catholic Church and numerous other charitable groups. The big breakthrough we had was the admission that a lot of aide was being stolen by the despots and corrupted people of thse countries we were sending aide to. We have a rethinking in how to use aide money.
Funny how the British of all people through Tony Blair were big supporters of debt relief at the various G8 meetings. I can whip out numerous books and tracts we publish about how the British are in cahoots to kill and enslave all of these people.
Since Lyn got out of Jail,a billion people have had their incomes rise. Is the source Lyn getting paroled for tax fraud and theft, or is it Far East Nations developing investment strategies that attract investment and encourage private development? We may have some people here who are part of that work force. I invested in Mutual funds who specifically invest in various Asian, East European and other enterprises.
We are buying products made in places that were former bastions of top down 5 year plans like India and China. We have elaborate models of international trade which have greatly benefitted from computers and inexpensive communications. A middle classs has emerged in areas where their was only a few at the top and the rest of the people at the bottom. The model is so dynamic that the only thing you can predict is that it is unpredicatable. Pick up any business ot tech magazine today and you will see how the human race is benefitting from an explosion of information, a tear down in trade barriers and an ability to quickly act and punish those sectors which are not transparent enough accounting wise or depend on massive subsidies which skew the market.
Yeah companies and financial houses go belly up Steven. They are supposed to.They are also to be liquidated when the business plan no longer works.
I think back to our late 70's LHL plan for one thousand nuclear reactors in the US and wonder how we managed to do that with a straight face when any serious investor, planner, analyst would have asked a million questions like:
-Who is going to buy all of this capacity?
-How will you repay bond holders if you can't sell power no one needs?
-How much will taxpayers have to pay out to subsidise the construction and fuel/waste?
-Have you asked the people and communities living near these 1000 plants if they want to live next door?
-Have you managed a plan for transport, processing, decontamination, refueling and ultimate disposal of the waste from a 1000 nuclear plants.
The reason we need a 1000 reactors was because we were making a reactor vessel of cash selling Fuson Magazine subs and memberships and hit a gold vein.
I am very pro nuclear Steven, I was way before I met the LC. After I left the LC, I got my marbles back and began to question the fog we were enveloped in.
I am very pro railroad Steven. So I looked at a 21st Century Maglev article by a LYM and an EIR article on Rail transport. This is amatuer stuff suited for a school book report, not serious analysis. You would get the picture from a Substitute teacher article that since we have so many miles of abandoned track, a work force 1/10 the size of 70 years ago and no Maglev trains that freight is piling up in every state and the country is paralyzed.
Go to a Borders book store and read some issues of Trains magazine and business magazines. Look up how railroads are run these days and notice that they are now in the transport business, with trains as one of the pieces. Read some industry journals on transport and see that record amounts of goods are being shipped by rail, jet and truck. The business is so efficient that it hauls more tonnage per employee and it does not need to have so many people working. UPS and FED Ex did not exist when Lyn had his woman paying the rent in the Village.
Have you ridden Amtrak? Do you think that Lyn will ride an Amtrak cross country from the DC Union Station to the LA Union Station for three days to give you LYM ers a 35th anniversary of the coming Economic Collapse of Humanity Observed (ECHO) tour 2005?
Well, maybe if the US had a Maglev train. OK, lets analyze that. Do you think Lyn will spend 10 hours going cross country in a 300 MPH Maglev train to seranade you for the ECHO 2005 Tour?
I read a hilarous encounter between an LA office worker and a LYM in an office building. The guy listened to a briefing about the collapse of trade, the impending bankruptcy and the collapse of US infrastructure that he simply asked him if he could name a few products he has not been able to buy or see based on this analysis of the economy?
Maybe Lyn will have Zeke Boyd drive cross country in the Bonnevilles to do the ECHO 2005 Tour. We did that in the mid 70's when we had conferences in NYC and airfare cross country was a LUXURY item. Lyn may wonder where his car will come from since the Detroit auto makers have trimmed plants and cut the workforce. Lets assume that he only wants an American made car. If Helga is on the tour it may be a problem as her tastes are strictly a German Benz armored Limo with a Teutonic warrior behind the wheel and behind her.
So less people work in Detroit. You would figure that by now the politicians in the Detroit area would figure out why no one wants to make cars in Michigan. As the empoyment in high expense states went down, the employment in low expense states went up. You can buy Hyundai made in Alabama in a 1.3 Billion dolllare Plant. A BMW made is South Carolina. A Nissan made in Tennesee. A Honda made in Ohio. A Toyota made in Indiana and other states.
Do you see any shortage of vehicles on the dealer lots due to no one making them or the inability to ship them from up to 10,000 miles away.
While I had my kids at the dentist this AM I picked up an April issue of Business Week which featured a book review on the energy business. A general review is here.
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/bottomlesswell/
The point is that are many , many people who figure out real solutions and analyse things to see if there is a problem.
The Larouche method is to create a problem that has only his axiomatic solutions for his axiomatic filled paranoia. People all the time think to themseves how to solve what they think is a problem in their own mind. There usually is not a cult in place working on it around the world through misinformed but hearts in the right places yutes. But, we will see how far you are willing to take that British/Zionist oath.
People can debate the merits of genetic agriculture and food safety. People do this every day and debate the issue and try to influence policy. In our case, we started to like family farms because we like family farm owners handing us money as they were another gold vein of people who had a working knowledge of conspiracies, but did not have right wingers who knew how to package everything together like we did. We harvested the Liberty Lobby and Bircher sub lists better than a John Deere with a full tank of fuel and an A/C cab.
If you wish for the Democratic party to grow and reflect your opinions, why don't you join it and work a campaign and do work for a serious office candidate. I can assure you that as soon as you say "I'm with Larouche" the party is over for your meeting, if you get one with an official. Keep that Black Congresional Caucus dream going because that will be coming to an end as a lot of Dems are figuring out that having any association with Larouche becomes an embarrassment as you become increasingly viewed as kooky by the voting public. Try to figure out witch party benefits when Dems are viewed as wild eyed Jew bashing conspirators when they hold hearings on Capital Hill. You will be doing exactly what we did in the 1980's, screwing the Dem party and their candidates.
There is a lot more that people can add, or have already added in previous posts. It is after you leave and rejoin the real world that you will wonder how you managed to have your bearings misplaced in fulfilling a mad man's idea of reality.
You may also have some shame at some things you may have done. I have nothing but apologies for any one whom I recruited, introduced, fundraised from and alienated in my tenure. The are elderly who have lost huge and not so huge sums that I wish never happened. There are women I know who have had abortions described earlier whom I can only offer sorrow. There are people who have been abused and made fun of for only asking "Why". There are peoples I have insulted in an around the bout way doing this. I can reread some of the stuff we did about Jews, the Holocost and only say I am sorry for not being more vigilant about what I was invovled in. I can read some articles about our PR job with old Nazis and wonder why I did not leave sooner like so many.
The main reason was because I wanted to believe that there was good coming out of my actions. I find that this is somewhat like the dilema faced by battered women where they know of the abuse, the lies and the hurt. But, they stick around because they remember something good about the relationship or hope that it gets better. Their optimism only went so far before they had to leave.
I do have good news for you Steven, I saved a fortune by switching to GEICO car insurance. Wait, that is just for comedic effect.
Do you know a LYM named Ed Park? I finally found some exchanges I had with him on the LYM web site before I was banned4life.
It was a similar banter, but did get me a bit upset as my morality was being challenged along with my Larouche experience. That is when it hit me that many of you were not even born when we pulled a lot of our capers off.
I will post it soon if you like. I was so looking forward to asking Ed about what happened in Compton to him one night.
Do you have any thoughts about the work of the Mars Society URL ?
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-18-2005, 03:38 PM
An observation: many of the recent posts sound sillier than the unstudied LYMer, attempting to prove a profound idea with a simply premature conception.
Admittedly, for various reasons, particularly because of how harmful their prior education was, it is very difficult for them to have a productive conversation with someone who has accepted the training of leading institutions.
For example. Try having a newbie LYMer enter the philosophy discussion in my class "From Descartes to Kant." They will not be able to withstand the barrage of empiricist sub-product that the average existentialist in my class will throw at them. Then Leibniz would come out of that debate looking defeated.
The point is, is that Mr. Curtis has the best ability to sink Mr. LaRouche's standing in a message board like this one, because he can keep his cool, being that he understands a very good approximation of what Mr. LaRouche is trying to prove, and he understands a very good approximation of a best retort.
I see both as well, however I currently find Mr. LaRouche's organization reasonable, intellectually and morally, more so than I do a Warren Buffet and for various good reasons (Mr. Curtis' latest post sounded like a New Economy apologist like what Mr. Buffet might say to his investors, attempting to transcend politicking, so to speak, and provide a robust apologist's position, much like the average neo-conservative might write).
That being said, let us continue. Someone is right here. Maybe not absolutely right, but more right than the rest.
There are many perspectives, many ways and languages to describe our observations and hypotheses, mnay issues in culture, economics, history, etc. and in all of this there is One Reality. I hypothesize that the best way to focus and discover the most reality, from the standpoint of this message board, which will help the parents of LYMers understand a crucial part of history of that organization that currently preoccupies their children's lives, is to find out why Mr. LaRouche was convicted and sent to prison.
Let us set an example for the LYM and the critics, an example for a show of dedication to education, openness and truthfullness. After such an experiment, if Mr. LaRouche was indeed rightly convicted, then you will have the indepth understanding and will be best equipt to free the LYM from the Bizarro World.
Mr. Curtis, do you know where and how I can get my hands on the transcripts of Mr. LaRouche and his associates' cases, in Boston and Alexandria?
Steven

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
07-18-2005, 04:29 PM
"Curtis' latest post sounded like a New Economy apologist like what Mr. Buffet might say to his investors, attempting to transcend politicking, so to speak, and provide a robust apologist's position, much like the average neo-conservative might write). "
Steven, I live in the real world. A world where I have went from my parents paying the bills, to them paying for a portion of my short lived college education. I then went to a world where my living accomodations depended on both the whims of some people and whether nuclear war was going to break out that week and that was after the weekly assasination attempts which hijacked more cash from the lower class members.
After leaving, I had to figure out how to make a new life after I burnt out all of my former freinds and was way behind in skills and education.
The real world has had me going on my third home to my family. I went from talking about what is best for kids to raising a few and DOING what is best for them.
I went from not caring about what happens to when I get older since the world economy will collapse so why bother with investing, to having the benefit of long term growth and being way ahead in being able to work for enjoyment at my convience as I get older.
In the real world I am the parent who has to finance cars, set budgets and figure out strategies to pay for colleges and other things. I can't declare a finacial mobe and deploy a few hundred people to man card table shrines and send every last dime to Leesburg.
In the real world, my labor goes towards my family, not Helga's dogs.
In the real world I have to be responsible because many people depend on me directly.
Being 21 Steven, you have the advantage over me in taking advantage of long term savings. Find a financial calculator on the web and see how much the money you place in Lyn's life style will grow in 30 or 40 years for YOUR life style.
Adulthood is not just being 21. It begins when you take responsability for your life and never let other people determine yours. There is a very safe world available in the org where all of the axioms will be structured so you think you know everything.
My problem was that I learned a lot more than I was supposed to.
The trials are somewhere on a PDF, usually in Legal web sites for lawyers.
You may just see a copy of some stuff pretty soon.
You raise an excellent point Steven. Whom do you think has more influence and stature in the world economy?
Larouche or Warren Buffet?
You have every right to invest your life and money with Larouche rather than a Buffet, but, I would see the past returns first. Both have 35 year trends you can see.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com
(Message edited by Xlcr4life on July 18, 2005)

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-18-2005, 05:58 PM
Very good. So while I search and study the relevent points on the case (which I still have yet to find a transcript on), you disagree with the thesis by John Perkins in his book (which is now being used as a supplement in leading university classes today) Confessions of an Economic Hitman, and also Mr. Tarpley's thesis concerning the economic crisis and neo-conservative coup?
Steven

 

kheris (kheris)
07-18-2005, 06:49 PM
XLCR has it right regarding the transcripts. Yale has a law school I do believe, and if so they should have a library that can help.
Answers.com provided this trial info (http://www.answers.com/topic/united-states-v-larouche).
It is Wikipedia based and provides some detail and links to information that came out of the trials. It also has links to the relevant Washington Post articles, which included quotes from the Virginia Jury Foreman that LaRouche was convicted for not paying back the people he took money from, not his political views. It took the jury 11 hours to convict.
BTW, the Post links will take you to the cult archive with other articles associated with LaRouche.

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
07-18-2005, 07:08 PM
The relevent points were based on this:
-We double charged and placed unauthorized charges on the cc's of people we were fundraising from.
-We issued unsecured promisorry notes which were pieces of paper which promised a set interest rate for a set time paid on a certain date with the principal due on a later date.
-Lyn and co lived like Enron millionaires and never filed taxes.
THOSE transcripts I would love to read again. You could make a great little theater troupe production with htem, but no one would believe it.
Everything else revolves around people doing things to thwart an investigation like destroying documents and sending people out of the country.
You can argue every civil rights version of the cases. I saw the notes and I heard the calls from our supporters and spoke to quite a few of them who had their cc statements in their hands while on the phone.
You can not comprehend how this nightmare entangled people I knew and liked. You can not comprehend how a controlled environment can make people do and believe many things. It is quite scary when you have been there.
The first clues was when some of the NYC finance people who knew book keeping and such left the National office and never returned. They ran away from that as fast as possible.
From what I learned from some people, deals were offered which would be based on returning money and probation, case closed. Lyn over rode everything and we then probably spent millions on lawyers.
One of the lawyers is the chief lawyer for Pat Robertson who you see on his TV network with a version of a Christian ACLU. Can't remember his name.
In most cases of books in this genre, many assumptions are based on making elaborate connections and axioms. The problem in real life is that the real events are often not as well planned as you think and a lot more boring. That does not make good media. There are a long list of companies that were often viewed as part of powerful cabals who no longer exist. Business and politics is dirty and will be corrupt. You can see it every day in every part of the world. Individual greed and criminals prefer to make money rather than elaborate plots.
Tarpley was part of the original contingent that was trained by Larouche in Germany. I think he split with his wife and went into business for himself. He even has his own version of a Lewis Dupont Smith funding his tour from the web stuff I read.
Who knows , this is a crazytalk world of remote controlled planes, planned implosions of the WTC, missles fired into the Pentagon and always a guest apperance by the Jews.
Tarpley emptied his pockets for Lyn and may need the gig. This is a Byzantine world of who knows who is still in and who knows who really left or still in working with the org.
Does this world sound like a place where you make change or just sing for spare change?
Are you sure you want to start down that long walk where the roads all lead to the Jews?
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-18-2005, 08:54 PM
Can you please characterize Ramsey Clark's role as Mr. LaRouche's attorney and please demystify his open letter to Janet Reno?
Steven
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/exon/ramseyclark_ltr_95.html

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
07-19-2005, 07:16 AM
Steven, this opens up another kettle of fish so to speak. During my tenure we used mountains of trees to make the paper to print out hatered of Clark. He was are number one enemy and was the constant target of our venom.
When you are in the Larouche world, that does not mean anything as we will work with anyone, even if we attack them if we can get some cash, meetings and in our minds,spread the Larouche Gospel. Someone who is outside the org and reviews 4o years of materials will have their head spin, We have gone all across the spectrum to be hate everyone and everything and then flip on a dime. In the case of Clark, you can find a lot of people who are suspicious of him. Usually the words you find are is he a :
"Kook, Dupe or Spook"
The spook stuff is what will attract many people to the Hostile Fantasy World of Larouche. (That's for the insiders). What will happen is that the lower level people will wonder what goes on behind the scenes and Lyn and the security staff will always have a carrot to throw you about how Lyn has blown open some operation and finally found the real behind the scenes story. This stuff is then circulated around the globe via our meetings with people with the results that we seem to be in the forefront of stuff, Lyn is a genius and the yutes better stay at those card table shrines because we are moving things behind the scenes.
You can read Public Eye's material about this because this world of spookery and crazytalk is much larger now via the web.
http://www.publiceye.org/rightwoo/Rwooz.html
Many people will look at the shutdown of our operations via the forced bankruptcy and shutting of our New Solidarity and Fusion magazine as very heavy handed. The org contacted a lot of people who would be opposed to that to get support for Lyn. Now many of these people despise Lyn because of how we assaulted leftists in the 1970's with "operation Mop Up". They also hated us becasue on a dime we became the biggest shills for Reagan, destroying the Russians, screwing with the Dem Party, all while we are Democrats.
We flipped back on a dime. Back in my era we were publishing stuff about the Muslim Brotherhood, Terrorist cells, Soviet sleeper terror cells, and how Jimmy Carter was over his head in dealing with Arab terror. At the same time Lyn goes to Baghdad around 1975 for two weeks, We try to sell EIR sub to Arab Muslim natuions and we begin to print stuff about an Arab culture. You fastforward to today and you will not find any articles about Arab/Muslim terror unless the roads lead to Israel. Even the first WTC bombing was blamed on the Queen of England and not the people who were convicted of it in a an early 1990's Lyn interview.
We attacked Scientology and warned members about Scientologists infiltrating the org. A little later we are meeting with Scientologists and exchanging info on Iran COntra through something called "the Christic Institute". While we are doing this, we are also writing EIR reports about Scientology.
If you have been in the group, these seemingly opposite actions make sense to you because we wish to be the hegemonic force and will think that we are using them for out purposes.
It does not always work that way as we were often the ones screwed for a lot of money by people who who ran circles around us. The lesson of life to learn is that con men are often taken in by other con men who know more about the other guy. In Lyn's case, all you have to do is inflate his ego about world importance, create an assasination plot and start counting the money that will be thrown your way. The King Book does a pretty good job explaing this.
This is one thing that is kept very secret to members. Bu creating the security operations Lyn had a black hole so to speak to drain money away from the members. People got rich off of us.
Where you can make endless speculation in all of this is guess to what extent the org has been "usefull fools" for other people. Clark has his enemies among leftists becasue they are convinced that he still works for some agency apparatus and is just using his role to disrupt and deflate any opposition to the US. His knowledge of what was called COINTELLPRO is what people are weary of.
In the case of Larouche, there are countless pages of FOIA documents that could be pulled and studied to reveal to what extent is Lyn and the org either a knowing or unknowing part of a "screwing things up" collection of domestic security by the Feds.
One can speculate all day long, but life is way too short for me to dwell on this. If you wish to just read their material for amusement and remain skeptical of all of the stuff you see from these wacky groups, then go right ahead.
One of the things I left with is an interest in reading the bizarre for amusement. The org is quite usefull in doing things that no other wacky group can do. If you are outside the Dem party, having Lyn provide the Black Caucus with materials is the best way to discredit the Black Caucus. We did many things to screw with candidates and print or say stuff that no one could do.
Not because Lyn is fearless as he says, but because Lyn is a crazy guy and having him and the org print things is the best plausable denial any one can have.
Think of how bizarre this is. We declared ourselves as Democrats and form a Democratic Pac. In 1984 when Modale runs, we buy half hour TV spots and print millions of lealfletss and pamphlets that Walter Mondale is a Soviet agent of influence and if he is elected, then the Russions will take over. In 1988, Dukakis is the Dem candidate and we print million of pieces of lit, and at press conferences spread stories that Dukakis was treated or depression in the 1970's and is mentally unfit to be the Dem candidate. Yet, Lyn and the org are Democrats, go figure.
So in the case of Clark I think that you will find another layer of the story. The org can be usefull to people and can be used for dirty tricks, while trying to use other people for it's purposes. No matter what, your future is still a card table shrine and being a shock troop for some thing else. If I was trying to manipulate things, I would find that having the Larouche baggage riding my opponents coattails is a sneaky way of doing a dirty trick. I rememebr when David Duke passed himself off as a Republican and tried to make himself a powerbroker. That did not last long as he was just chump change compared to Lyn. They both seem to have has date at the Zayed canter though.
Speculate if you must, but keep your distance as you can become intoxicated by this and really think that you are going to be a player.
As far as the legal cases go. All I wish to covey is that you can read a mountain of legal briefs and be distracted from what we did TO people, not what was done TO us by the raids. I can read any major paper in big cites and you can see variuous state and federal agencies using RICO and similar actions on boiler room operations with gold bullion, penny stocks, futures, unsecured prommissory notes, crooked merchants using double billings etc. The AG can issue a cease and desist raid and shut offices. You will see a lot of this with crooked pharmacists, medical suppliers and doctors who cheat the Medicare system.
The day after the raid we did three things.
-We opened up new corporate filing papers.
-We added more phone lines in members houses to still call people and fundraise.
-A few key people laughed about it and said that "I guess that means that we don't have to pay back anyone as the US government has taken us over".
In fact , if we got some one on the phone who was giving us a hard time, we would give them the AG's phone number and tell them to get their loan repayments from them!
Ask people you mention how much money we repaid to our supporters. When you find out that we had people take out 2nd home mortgages at 13% and promise them that we would pay them back, then you will understand why my heart was no longer into this and why to this day I can only feel pain for many of our supporters. Back when we were 21, the idea of a 2nd motgage on your house was not a valid idea to us. No one understood what a thirty year loan was. We just wanted the money for Larouche and the org. I would hear members say "Who cares, the market is going to collapse and her house will be worthless anyway"
People become very heartless in this environment. It is a gradual process. Alzheimers was not known back then. We got a lot of money from elderly who would write a check and then not rememeber when we called them back for more. In many cases the person's kids would get a phone call fromm the bank about an overdraft and the kids would rush over to their parents house and almost faint when they saw the checks written while their father or mother could not provide details. It was all of those calls to state AG offices that triggered investigations.
I almost threw up when I found out that we were having some 80 year old with dementia taking out home equity loans for us.
Are you sure you want to commit your life to these people?
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

wanderer (wanderer)
07-19-2005, 07:42 AM
Steven -
You're really missing the point here.
Lyndon La Rouche doesn't believe what he's saying.
Find people who practice what they preach to join forces with if you want to be part of a group. Join more than one group to assist in maintaining a clear perspective.

 

borisbad (borisbad)
07-19-2005, 02:12 PM
I think that the problem is simple. Obviously there are issues that are screwed up in the world and any good demagogue can look at these problems and then claim that: 1) one particular group is responsible for all those problems; this can be Trilateral Commission, Synarchism, the British Monarchy, the Zionists, Jews in general, minorities, immigrants, or whomever. Of course, people like LaRouche always likes to presonalize the attacks so you go after people, now it's Cheney, before it was Henry Kissinger, etc. Nothing has to do with class forces in general, or moving real masses of people, so you then meet with some gullible organization head or Congressional spokesman, find an area of agreement and then claim that the person is really looking to LaRouche for leadership on that particular issue. For instance, I can remember how we used the War On Drugs issue to push LaRouche's agenda. I doubt one person got off of drugs because of the Anti-Drug Coalition, but you could certainly raise money and recruit supporters from church groups, etc. by saying you were against drugs and against organizations like High Times. so becaues there was some point of agreement, LHL supporters would then assume these were people who were buying LaRouche's philosophy hook line and sinker.
Similarly because LHL was anti-abortion, and for "growth" he became a big supporter of the Catholic Church. But when members of the organization wanted to practice the pro-life philosophy by having their own children, LaRouche freaks out and now he attacks the Church as right wing synarchist backers of fascism (certainly containing some truth like Opus Dei, etc.-but truth is of little concern to LaROuche, only political advantage).
The world has survived for thousands of years without one person having to lead the world, and it will struggle on after LaRouche is dead. I doubt that the world is ever going to need one person whether Hitler, Stalin, Kim Il Sung or LaRouche to muddle through even if it never becomes a utopia.
Question, if you think the world is going to end without LaRouche's ideas, where does he stand these days on global warming. I suspect he is totally against giving it any credence, but if that is as dangerous as some people predict, shouldn't we be addressing some of these ideas. But again, LaRouche usually denounced any type of environmental concerns, simply saying that "science" would solve all problems.

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
07-19-2005, 03:27 PM
"Lyndon La Rouche doesn't believe what he's saying."
That all depends when you talk to him and when he talks to you Wanderer. What makes the Larouche story very scary for people is that we were dealing with someone who can lie through his smoke stained teeth,

talk with a convincing swagger to yutes, and then quietly dismiss the whopper with a new tall tale to take your mind off the old lie. When you have so many stories going on at the same time, where do you begin to figure out how an org gets taken for a ride?
A good reference point is the infamous "January 1974" which many of you who show here will know what I am talking about. The yutes of today were somehow never informed of this event and were shocked when I brought it up. Ed Park will be our foil as you will see the evolution of these threads as the posts unwind.
Now for some backround of LYM. There was once a nice web site called
"The Academy2004" which the LYM set up. It was a nice little set up and had numerous entry points to discuss various things which LYM was involved in. I took a peak and noticed two things. First there were some nasty people who always insulted and called the LYMer names. I do not like that since as a former member, I kinda understand what goes through your mind when you join. Most people are not joining what they think is a cult or what they think was a criminal enterprise or a sweat shop that makes Chinese labor laugh at them.
The original site was here:
http://forums.theacademy2004.com/viewtopic.php?p=349#349
But somehow it ended with a whimper as either the 35 bucks to renew the domain name was too much money (that's almost two weeks of LYM pay) or my bringing up some past history was not supposed to be seen by the LYM in general.
In a month or so, the group shifted its site to a Yahoo group called "Antidummies" which I thought could use some history lessons as well.
If you have a King book go to pages 27 to 30 and you can read about what was happening to us at that time. What everyone here should know is that over the years, many of the people who participated or were directly involved , independently of each other admited that this was fabricated by Lyn and some security people. There was a sick Chris White, but that whole episode was blown up to such a high degree that it was the basis of how the org was transformed.
Anyone here who was around back then can provide some idea of how crazy that time period was. In may cases you will have memebrs who had meetings with Lyn who come away scared witless because they see the Lyn both knows he has pulled off some whoppers on us, and that he truly believes the whole axiomatic concoction and can ramble for hours about all of this and not miss a beat. This was the quality of lyn that Wahlforth writes about upon working with Lyn in the 1960's.
This is the type of mind that can leave an estate in Virgina after eating a meal prepared by a staff, be dressed by the staff with tailored clothes custom fitted, read the financial reports of the org and tell finance what to pay, check on Helga's dogs who just flew in from Germany, hop in the Bonneville with armed security people on his side, wave to the armed guards at the gate of the estate, have the Bonnevilles ride in formation with the Larouche posse to the court house, enter the court house, swear to tell the truth and then tell a jury that he has absolutley no idea where the money comes from or who pays the bill or how this all happens.
If you really want to believe that the trials were a compete fabrication and Lyn was innocent, then do not STOP to read this and just GO the Larouche card table shrine awaiting you.
After a few weeks I was looking at the calender and noticed that it was January 2004. In order to assist the LYM in celebrating Larouche High Holy days, I simply wrote the following. I will follow up with the how Ed Park handled this.

  • **
    From : xlcr4life <xlcr4life@hotmail.com>
    Reply-To : antidummies@yahoogroups.com
    Sent : Thursday, January 15, 2004 1:08 AM
    To : antidummies@yahoogroups.com
    Subject : [antidummies] Important anniversary for LYM members!
    First, I want to wish all of my fellow LYMers a Happy but belated New
    Year. The campaign has taken up a lot of my time. Since many of you
    are much younger than me, I want to give you folks a history lesson.
    As Lyn often says "those that do not know history are doomed to
    repeat it"
    30 or so years ago we had a historic national conference in NYC. That
    conference was notable in that we had a historic proclamation by LHL
    that a massive CIA operation was being run against us. Many members
    according to Lyn were brainwashed and in need of deprogramming. A
    chap named Bill Endghal flayed his arms wildly and said that he was
    brainwashed. Many members were running down the halls of the room
    screaming that they were brainwashed. Now what started this.
    Well, back then Lyn's ex wife was with a guy named Christopher White.
    They were NEC members, pretty high up. Lyn was convinced that Chris
    was brainwashed and was part of a Rockefeller CIA KGB MI5 conspiracy
    to assasinate him. The plan was to culminate in frogman emerging from
    the Hudson river and killing LYN. Lyn had the whole org on a red
    alert to stop this.There were many all night attack sessions, real
    scary stuff. Now here is where you folks need a history lesson. If
    you look at all of the old campaign, newpapers and magazines, you
    will notice that almost all of the old memers are gone, kaput.
    Recently, some of the people who were involved in the frogman caper
    admitted that the whole thing was a farce and sham. But. Lyn and the
    higher ups saw that it did get us riled up and moving fast. Maybe you
    can ask Phil about what happened.
    The point is this, I will now predict what will happen after the DC
    and Iowa primaries:
    -First, the low vote will be explained because of vote fraud.
    -then we will be on full alert, no free time, no money for anything.
    All cash for TV spots.
    -The young folks will be hit for loans to cover the shortfalls. Your
    credit cards and student loans will be maxed out, because humanity
    will depend on us.
    -A million run leaflet will be issued.
    The grand finale will be an assasination plot against Lyn and Helga
    that will need to be foiled.
    Now I am not a prophet, just a veteran of the 1976,
    1980,1984.1988,1992,1996, and 2000 campaigns.
    At a previous confernece, Lyn asked for 10,000 young members, ready
    to organise. At that conference, the voice in my head said this: "Aw
    hell, we had over 10,000 supporters if you added them up over the
    years. But we burned them, fleeced them, and then fled them when they
    wanted us to pay back some cash we borrowed. So, just like the
    frogman conference over 30 years ago, some thing don't change. The
    recent conference in Wiesbaden that resulted in a kids death was
    something some of us were expecting to happen. Here is a link for
    you:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?
    xml=/news/2003/11/09/wcult09.xml
    or just google "Jeremiah Duggan and Larouche"
    Some of you youngsters may ask what the Rockefellers have to do with
    this. Well, Lyn and the intel security sectors had a real hard on
    for the Rockefellers back then. Then we just shifted gears as needed.
    Those old journals are real funny to look at now. The Dope inc book
    was great, but ask some one for the first edition that had something
    called the "Protocols of the elder of Zion" in it. 90 % of us back
    then had no idea what that was about. Most of my fellow members are
    gone, but I still hang around in Leesburg. "Watching the wheels
    turn", as John Lennon used to say
    So lets get back to work! Don't call me cynical, just experienced. If
    you folks have any questions, post them or email me and I will try to
    answer them . And if ol Phil picks up a chair, run!
    Your obedient servant,
    xlcr4life@hotmail.com
 

xylm (xylm)
07-20-2005, 01:51 PM
LAROUCHE BLAMES OKALAHOMA BOMBING ON THE BRITISH ! HAHAHA
You must check out this short interview article which pretty much portrays the lunacy behind Larouche's constant british conspiracy accusations which are always covertly covered up by the insidious media outlets who coincidentally have exposed Larouche's bizzaro world in the past (I suppose it is convenient to have so many enemies). Trust me, this article makes sense… a lot of NONSENSE!
Here is the link: http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur50.htm
Here is a quote: "So, here we are, a case of this faction of the British Empire, the
British monarchy, prepared and exploited a terrorist act against the
United States, a terrorist act of military intelligence sophistication,
way above the Special Forces level; and they're the ones who benefitted.
And that's the kind of problem to which the President was referring in
his address at the university in Moscow. This is the enemy. The
President was diplomatic and did not mention {London}; but I'm certain
that the President knows the British monarchy is the party that is
responsible for this and other present, recent past, and possibly future
events of a similar gory quality."
Steven, this one's for you! }

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
07-20-2005, 02:54 PM PART TWO**
When you are in for a while you adopt LaroucheSpeak and your vocabulary will adopt certain words which Lyn will use over and over again. In this era we have a big emphasis on "The Boomers". What is also interesting is that the actual criminal element of what we did was now being rewritten for the incoming yutes who were born when we ran our boiler rooms.
In this version of history we not only did no wrong, but had members who were in for several years who raised millions of dollars and were threatened with jail if they paid back the people we owed money to! Even though, in many cases we called most of our people back the next day once we had new phone lines installed in apts and were very carefull how we had supporter checks made out. The entities, as they were called, were not all shut down. We had the NC's incorporate new companies in the states the locals were based out of. Prommissory notes were issued by various entities. Even though we had numerous front groups and businesses, the money was intertwined based on how our finance office via Lyn wanted it. Some of the companies were only whispered about and the farther you got a way from NYC, the less you knew.
Even though the issuing company of the notes was shut down by the Feds, we still called up the same people for more money to now stop the Feds. Within a short time we set up New Federalist to replace New Solidarity. Fusion magazine was suspended and 21st Century was started up. Campaigner was ended and Fidelio was set up via the Schiller Institute. What was pretty funny was that we got so behind in mailing out subs to people that it was an actual relief not to have to fulfill the back orders and allowed us to call back those people to now subscribe to the replacement magazine!
The final item Ed has to deal with is that he is accusing ME of making up a Frogman assasination and brainwashiong story involving the former NEC member Christopher White! Ed evidently has never seen the Campaigner we write about that as it appeared 30 some years ago. I beg Ed and the LYM to ask his or her local leaders to explain what happened back then.
PublicEye has a nice summary of the events here for people to read.
http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/nclc1.html
Ed wrote back on the AntiDummies site the following.


  • Ah, now I see why Erin's been so nasty. Have you two been hanging out?
    Alright xlcr4life, try this on. Back in the 60s, the Americans were
    riding high. The boomers had the highest standard living of any
    generation of humans, ever. The U.S., less than 200 years old - how old
    is that? Well, lets see - if you count in human generations, 25 years a
    piece, that's less than 8 generations. (Now how many generations of
    humans has passed in our millions of years together on this rock as a
    species?) So we're a young country. With promise, but not without
    problems. Problems like the corruption of it's government. Take the
    security services for example. Now the CIA, the FBI, oh sure, they're
    great, if you're a fascist. But if you don't like fascism, then you
    have two choices: fight or run.
    Many of the boomers, they ran. Those that fought, suffered. But today,
    this organization has the infrastructure to wage daily political
    warfare throughout the world. Some of those that ran, justify their
    cowardice to themselves and others with cynicism. Hell, there are
    people in this organization still that justify their lack of commitment
    with cynicism. Look at some of the people in the european organization.
    It's pretty simple. Take a look at the world. What are you doing to
    help it? Genocide in Africa. Political corruption. Apathy of the
    population. Densensitization to violence. Imperial wars. Economic
    collapse. Are you acquiring the skills to take this on? Are you
    increasing your power, your capacity, to perform good?
    Or maybe you're being a cynical brat, like some typical boomer locked
    in a hungover stupor, blind to the crisis that has yet to be defeated.
    For those with a bit more academic rigor in our bones, as opposed to
    your mental rigor mortis, let me take you to Dachau, Germany, where the
    Nazis had a human incineration camp, today a museum, above whose
    entrance the haunting words by George Santayana are inscribed: "Those
    who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."
    For those of us who know these words by Santayana, or like myself, have
    even been to Dachau and seen them etched in stone there, recall a
    passionate sympathy for the victims of the Nazi holocaust when Lyndon
    LaRouche recalls the famous quote.
    Stupidly, you recall nothing but your own chagrin when alerted to
    danger, you scrambled to the battlements, ready to fight, and finding
    no action to respond to, nothing more to do... back in the days when
    the assassination of Kennedy and MLK were still fresh in the minds of
    this country's citizens, and we had a ripe chance to unleash a
    renaissance of goodwill to our fellow men.
    Drained of vigor, today, you recall those past days of tense
    excitement, through half-lidded eyes, even grinning maniacally as CNN
    drones on about "Orange alert" blah blah "secret weapons program" blah
    blah "intelligence failure" blah blah... because you "know" what is
    "really" going on because you've "been there" before.
    And further, us youth organizers don't have to take out loans now
    because the Schiller Institute and the LaRouche campaign are
    established enough that we can raise the money to do what we need from
    our supporters. Thanks to the sacrifices of others. Back in the day,
    when LaRouche revolutionaries starved, yes, financial mistakes were
    made. I would say, big mistakes. People have been fired. Some have been
    revealed to have been operatives for the enemy. Others were merely
    incompetent. Some so called mistakes were actually traps laid for good
    people, and many people did jail time. Many did jail time for totally
    bogus charges.
    What about you? Where were you? Were you really there?
    Besides your own problems of impotence, political and otherwise, I have
    a pertinent question for you. Are you a paid provocateur? Incompetent
    as you are, perhaps not. But think back, did you really think frogmen
    were going to leap out of the Hudson? If so, man, I feel for you. Where
    do you come up with this stuff? That's what cracks me up. Were you
    really a member? Who let you in? How are we supposed to win this fight
    if our own members are locked up in some kind of Hollywood induced
    fantasy state? Maybe that's why the organization basically died for a
    while - because there were too many so called "members" that were
    really just goofballs looking to pass the time. What makes you think
    you are qualified to deal with matters of Lyn's security? Or to assess
    the validity of threats?
    The point is, regardless of the more exotic aspects of LaRouche's
    professional history, I want this man to be President of the United
    States. I want other young people to be involved in making this
    campaign happen. It is my personal desire to see major changes made in
    the U.S. national economic policy, and I see Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr. as
    my best chance of getting these changes made. Not Howard Dean. Not John
    Kerry. Not You. And definitely not George W. Bush.
    Oh yea, and the low voter turnout in D.C. _IS_ because of vote fraud.
    Talk to our people on the East Coast. (Yea, you can come up to a book
    table, all sneaky, like you probably usually do) You can see the
    effects of our campaigning with the L.A., CA county recall fight and
    and the Philly mayoral race. We move votes. Big time. No way that we
    get to D.C. and hit a wall. Poor black people is my kind of people.
    It's a LaRouche town. Let the Dem Party machine screw itself into a
    coffin by disenfranchising voters. Maybe we can get an investigation
    movin' with our recent political support from within the establishment.
    If we can get the right people to talk... yea baby, it's on!
    As far as not paying back our supporters... what kind of jerk are you?
    That's why I don't think you actually know anybody in this
    organization. Don't you know that people have to deal with this guilt
    all the time? Don't you know that people feel terrible? The reason our
    supporters weren't paid back was because we were bankrupt!!! If you pay
    back people after going into bankruptcy protection you GO TO JAIL! (you
    dummy!) The whole thing was a setup - read the transcript from the
    Boston trial! It's governement fraud! Our supporters were targeted for
    helping us! The government declared our ops bankrupt, it was imposed on
    us! What do you think, that people who study Plato, Socrates, Leibniz
    and Lincoln like treating people badly?!! As if they were really just
    Michael Milken loving cult in Platonic disguise? Stupid man.
    Oh and another thing, our contact that was killed in Europe, this poor
    kid walked into traffic! You're actually blaming it on us? The Schiller
    Institute went to the parents to find out what happened. The fact that
    it's coming up in the press is for political reasons. Which I see
    you're trying to exploit. Very interesting... (if I had a mustache I'd
    be twirling the end of it and squinting meaningfully) But you weren't
    there, it wasn't your responsibility obviously to talk to the parents
    and explain what happened, to try to help them deal with the untimely
    demise of their son, and that's why you've become such a splitting
    image of the Democratic Party mascot!
    I bet you're affilited with Nestor Sanchez and F. Quijano in Leesburg,
    and I'm surprised you get past security at the conferences. What gives,
    do you hang out with Laurent Maureviec too?! (I wonder how these
    turncoats can look themselves in the face) But in any case, dig down
    deep, into what's left of your withered self, and try to touch some
    soul. BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT YOU AIN'T GOTS, AND WHAT I SEZ YOU NEEDS!!!
    LAROUCHE FOR PRESIDENT!
    -ed
    Ed Park
    Soul Brother, First Class, LaRouche in 2004 Presidential Campaign
    "How could I be brainwashed? Really, I have such a dirty mind."
    -California LYM Motto :P
    P.S. What ever happened to Bill Engdahl? He did some excellent work.
    Isn't he still around the organization somewhere?
    --- xlcr4life <xlcr4life@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > First, I want to wish all of my fellow LYMers a Happy but belated New
    > Year. The campaign has taken up a lot of my time. Since many of you
    > are much younger than me, I want to give you folks a history lesson.
    > As Lyn often says "those that do not know history are doomed to
    > repeat it"
    >
    > 30 or so years ago we had a historic national conference in NYC. That
    >
    > conference was notable in that we had a historic proclamation by LHL
    > that a massive CIA operation was being run against us. Many members
    > according to Lyn were brainwashed and in need of deprogramming. A
    > chap named Bill Endghal flayed his arms wildly and said that he was
    > brainwashed. Many members were running down the halls of the room
    > screaming that they were brainwashed. Now what started this.
    >
    > Well, back then Lyn's ex wife was with a guy named Christopher White.
    >
    > They were NEC members, pretty high up. Lyn was convinced that Chris
    > was brainwashed and was part of a Rockefeller CIA KGB MI5 conspiracy
    > to assasinate him. The plan was to culminate in frogman emerging from
    >
    > the Hudson river and killing LYN. Lyn had the whole org on a red
    > alert to stop this.There were many all night attack sessions, real
    > scary stuff. Now here is where you folks need a history lesson. If
    > you look at all of the old campaign, newpapers and magazines, you
    > will notice that almost all of the old memers are gone, kaput.
    > Recently, some of the people who were involved in the frogman caper
    > admitted that the whole thing was a farce and sham. But. Lyn and the
    > higher ups saw that it did get us riled up and moving fast. Maybe you
    > can ask Phil about what happened.
    >
    > The point is this, I will now predict what will happen after the DC
    > and Iowa primaries:
    >
    > -First, the low vote will be explained because of vote fraud.
    > -then we will be on full alert, no free time, no money for anything.
    > All cash for TV spots.
    > -The young folks will be hit for loans to cover the shortfalls. Your
    > credit cards and student loans will be maxed out, because humanity
    > will depend on us.
    > -A million run leaflet will be issued.
    >
    > The grand finale will be an assasination plot against Lyn and Helga
    > that will need to be foiled.
    >
    > Now I am not a prophet, just a veteran of the 1976,
    > 1980,1984.1988,1992,1996, and 2000 campaigns.
    >
    > At a previous confernece, Lyn asked for 10,000 young members, ready
    > to organise. At that conference, the voice in my head said this: "Aw
    > hell, we had over 10,000 supporters if you added them up over the
    > years. But we burned them, fleeced them, and then fled them when they
    >
    > wanted us to pay back some cash we borrowed. So, just like the
    > frogman conference over 30 years ago, some thing don't change. The
    > recent conference in Wiesbaden that resulted in a kids death was
    > something some of us were expecting to happen. Here is a link for
    > you:
    >
    > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?
    > xml=/news/2003/11/09/wcult09.xml
    >
    > or just google "Jeremiah Duggan and Larouche"
    >
    > Some of you youngsters may ask what the Rockefellers have to do with
    > this. Well, Lyn and the intel security sectors had a real hard on
    > for the Rockefellers back then. Then we just shifted gears as needed.
    >
    > Those old journals are real funny to look at now. The Dope inc book
    > was great, but ask some one for the first edition that had something
    > called the "Protocols of the elder of Zion" in it. 90 % of us back
    > then had no idea what that was about. Most of my fellow members are
    The "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", which was exposed as fraudulent,
    and later researched by this very organization as being related to
    operations directed by the Russian Okhrana. Hitler used these
    "Protocols" as a political weapon against his Jewish foes though they
    had already been debunked. Unfortunately, after WWII, the Nazis didn't
    exactly pack up and go home. They entered into public service.
    Throughout the world, and including top jobs in the U.S. government. If
    you're criticizing the LaRouche movement as being fanatic about this
    Nazi conspiracy stuff, it might have to do with the fact that so many
    people that started this movement were of Jewish descent. Including
    your beloved Phil Rubinstein.
    > gone, but I still hang around in Leesburg. "Watching the wheels
    > turn", as John Lennon used to say
    HAHA! Quoting the Beatles! Very interesting... (Twirling imaginary
    mustache)
    > So lets get back to work! Don't call me cynical, just experienced. If
    Experienced at what? Masturbation!? You're so in love with yourself. I
    admit, you are expert.
    > you folks have any questions, post them or email me and I will try to
    > answer them . And if ol Phil picks up a chair, run!
    Yea, it means he's gonna sit down.
    And Navy SEALS are going to rappel through the dining room picture
    windows.
    > Your obedient servant,
    Oh will you puh-leeze.
    > n33dsAlife
 

xylm (xylm)
07-20-2005, 04:02 PM
In lieu to the above post, Ed Park, a Larouche youth member, had the audacity to claim that the Schiller Institute helped the family of deceased Jeremiah Duggan. The family of Jeremiah had dedicated themselves via a website: www.Justiceforjeremiah.com (http://www.Justiceforjeremiah.com) exposing Larouche as the cause for his death. I cant even put into words how immorally sick you must be to preach your commiseration and help for the person (Jeremiah's mother) who has dedicated her life surfacing evidence (withheld by the Schiller institute) against Larouche to bring justice and closure for her son. The Schiller Institute has not been cooperative at all with the family nor the authority, this makes me even more sick to my stomach to hear Ed claim that they sought the family after the incident. And Larouche being the douche that he is blamed this on British Operatives.

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
07-20-2005, 09:36 PM

  • Part Three***
    Ed responded with the following post on AntiDummies. I was a little upset because one of the things which the org does is to portray ANY action outside of Larouche to be worthless and impotent. A common tactic when recruiting or fundraising when a person makes an objection is to belittle a person's life by first creating the enormous, monstrous mother of all conspiracies which has has engulfed every single aspect of human existance. No corner of the world is exempt from this multi headed hydra, except in the confines of a Larouche card table shrine or upping your cash advance while in the local office or on the telly with them.
    You have already made clear that their education will be corrupt as only through Larouche will you learn the "Secrets know only to the Inner Elite", but even if you do come out of school and assume a normal life, it too is worthless. Nothing you do, unless it has been stamped by Pope Larouche or his Bishops is worth any thing. If you think I am kidding, I can tell you about various memos we recieved from Lyn in the 1980's when are entire Detroit operation left. We also had some people who had ideas for patents and other venues which though could make money, did not involve Larouche. The result was a declaration that there will not be single initiative, publication or meeting which will take place unless it's absolute goal was putting Larouche in the White House.
    Years after I left and reentered the real world, I was immediately shocked at how much good is produced by simple people from all walks of life. People who have responsabilities with children, senior citizens, rehabs, legal rights, business people who do charity work, non profits and yes, the people who battle for things in local and state governments.
    Our entire view of people was very cynical as it was inconcievable that you could do anything with Larouche attached to it. We would ridicule housewives who raise kids, volunteers, charity workers. They were all told that everything they do is impotent in facing the world wide onslought of the British/Zionist Dark Ages.
    Poor Ed gave me a flashback in one paragraph which had me create what I called "My moral resume". Or to put iit n LaroucheSpeak, "Our morals and theirs" This took place before the recent Tsunami disaster, so I was not able to include my financial assistance in that.
    Being a person of inner peace, I was a little shaken that I had such an anger with a little self righteous punk telling me that my life is not worth a damn thing.
    After a few deep controlled breaths, I thought back to myself when I was in Ed's shoes as a young energetic organiser who was not about to wait for a person to make a decision about saving the Human species. I too was guilty of short sighting people and looking down at people who had no idea of the immense behind the scenes knowledge I was recieving every day through the briefings.
    Maybe the spirit of Yogi Berra can come forth.
    If I knew back then what I knew about back then, then I wouldn't be here talking about back then.
    Ed is at the mercy of his environment. How is he to know what is going on when most of the people who found out have left? Ed was not alive when most of this stuff took place. Are the current dead enders going to give him copies of NS articles with Lyn's speeches about Cuban frogman and brainwashed members? Are they going to tell him that one by one, the people who later asked about this were told it was false, including the people who participated in it? Is Ed going to get copies of NS where Lyn writes about Holocaust figures? Is Ed going to get the editon of Dope Inc with The Protocols of Zion reprinted in it? Will someone give Ed a stack of prommissory notes so he can see how this was run?
    I can't be upset with Ed's heart since he wants to do something. I also was told that Ed may have been assaulted during an LA walking tour in a bad area and beaten badly. We have chewed up as many Eds as Lyn has emptied bottles of Rheingau. Discarded until the next shipment comes in.
    I *** out the names of some people as this forum is much larger and viewed by a large audience.
    The final part is next.
    xlcr4life@hotmail.com

  • --- In antidummies@yahoogroups.com, Ed Park <xcedrinod@y.. (xcedrinod@y.).> wrote:
    > Ah, now I see why Erin's been so nasty. Have you two been hanging
    out?
    Well, Santa Monica is a nice place.
    Ed Park wrote:
    >
    > "It's pretty simple. Take a look at the world. What are you doing to
    > help it? Genocide in Africa. Political corruption. Apathy of the
    > population. Densensitization to violence. Imperial wars. Economic
    > collapse. Are you acquiring the skills to take this on? Are you
    > increasing your power, your capacity, to perform good?"
    >
    I will wager my morality against any one there. My morality resume is
    as follows:
    -Given a few thousand for the construction of a local school.
    -Donated computer and supplies to the local public school.
    -Have given thousands to "Habitat for Humanity" which constructs
    hundreds of thousands of housing units.
    -Donated thousands of dollars in kind to local shelters and charities
    for low oncome parents and children.
    -Donated cash to orgs which sponser agricultural development in
    Africa.
    -Assisted many people in straightening out their finances, savings
    and home purchases. I am not a financial professional, but explain
    the intricacies of finance.
    -Helped single parents persue careers to better themselves.
    -Work in a profession where my knowledge and skills are able to save
    lives and help people overcome horrible physical ailments. I also
    make a buck doing this.
    -Raise kids.
    -Involve my self with local planning, environmental, economic
    concerns.
    -Helped many people survive dictatorships in other lands.
    -Promoted freedom around the world.
    -Pay several thousand dollars a year in local taxes which support the
    regionalm infrastructure.
    -Campaigned for a local sales tax increase to boost school spending.
    -Worked on promoting changes in Medicare and health spending policies.
    -Worked for election reform.
    -Participated in Black History month work, and worked on cultural
    diversity panels.
    -Supported local arts such as theater and classical musical work.
    -Supported local activities for youth.
    -Met several times with my local officials including congressman,
    state senators and school board officials on current concerns of
    security, economic policy, education and health policy.
    I am going to stop here because I do not want to seem like I am too
    proud of what I do.
    The first point of issue in the LHL org is to convince you that there
    is NO one except LHL who can do anything. When you are convinced that
    the only world that matters is the LHL world, you are in Bizarro
    land. The great American comic book series "Superman" uses the
    Bizarros to explain how one can live in a totaly insular world, yet
    think that everything is correct. When you live in the Bizarro world,
    everything makes sense.
    Now on to some history:
    Ed Park wrote:
    " when LaRouche revolutionaries starved, yes, financial mistakes were
    > made. I would say, big mistakes. People have been fired. Some have
    been> revealed to have been operatives for the enemy. Others were
    merely> incompetent. Some so called mistakes were actually traps laid
    for good> people, and many people did jail time. Many did jail time
    for totally> bogus charges."
    I will review some things for you. Back in the late 70's we set up a
    publishing house called "New Benjamin Franklin House" Open up some
    early books and you will see that in the first page. NBFH began to
    issue "Notes" to supporters for large checks. The problem was that
    every once in a while a supporter would actually expect a dividend
    check. Then it was hard to get on the phone. This went
    on but never became a real big problem. During the 80's this was
    expanded to include "promisarry notes" issued by local regions doing
    business as corporations. Phil, Harley, Shiela Jones, Debbie Freeman
    etc all had local companies issuing notes with interests rates above
    the high rates at the time, 18 to 24 %. In the national office, some
    of the finance people took off when this began to look like a scene
    from the Mel Brooks movie "The Producers" As a side line, I remember
    a briefing on the collapse of capitalism back in our Communist hey
    day where that movie was recommended by LHL as a documentary of how
    capitalism works and dies. Back to the national office. * **,
    a guy named *** along with his wife took off after seeing the
    financial lunacy going on. How do I know about the Promissary note?
    Well I made the xeroxes of them and worked on getting people to
    become Notary Publics so we could process things faster.
    Ed, you may not have even been born when this party was going on.
    >
    > "What about you? Where were you? Were you really there?"
    >
    Ed. I was there to see the long list of creditors, and to see how
    many members were signing for big loans to give to LHL. I also saw
    the faces of people who were told that they would never get their
    money back and how dare they even ask for it
    Now on to January 1974. See if you can find a back Campaigner
    called "On the track of my assasins" If I have it I will scan it in
    here. Since most peole have come to their senses and hit the road,
    you may have trouble finding it. Phil drove in from Seattle to the
    conference at the Ansonia Hotel on the West Side of NYC.
    ED Wrote"
    But think back, did you really think frogmen> were going to leap out
    of the Hudson? If so, man, I feel for you. Where
    > do you come up with this stuff? That's what cracks me up. Were you
    > really a member? Who let you in?
    This came from the mobilaztion briefings after LHL "Debriefed your
    former NEC member Chris White. Remeber the name Chris and Carol
    White. They wrote thousands of documents for publication. Do you know
    where they are now?
    Ed wrote:
    What makes you think> you are qualified to deal with matters of
    Lyn's security?"
    Good Question Ed.
    A lot of security people left because they saw what really was going
    on. One guy said that his main job was guarding Lyn's supply of
    Rheingau wine. The chief (depending on what Jeff Steinberg thinks)
    Paul Goldstein left and runs an international business consulting
    firm. He lives really well in Leesburg.I will give you his web link
    later. For now type in :
    Pacific Tech Bridge on google.>
    >
    Ed wrote:
    " yea baby, it's on!"
    You are right Ed, its on. I will be back to fill you and others with
    more fun. You have a lot of questions to ask .
    > >
    > P.S. What ever happened to Bill Engdahl? He did some excellent work.
    > Isn't he still around the organization somewhere?
    He publishes material which strangely never mention LHL.
    Ed, we are going to have a great time together.
    Your obedient servant,
 

anon127 (anon127)
07-21-2005, 08:29 PM
steven...u still around ???...or did u drop out of this msg board like u dropped out of the LKYM to go to yale?

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-22-2005, 12:28 AM
I'm here, friend. But I do not see any hope of productive discussion on this message board. I have said my peace, especially regarding the hopeless method Mr. Curtis relies on.
The principal disagreement is truly a matter of how well the players in this discussion understand current history, and therefore, their own roles, as well as Mr. LaRouche's role in current history. It is a matter of education. There will be no productive discussion unless on those terms, and I have not recieved up-to-par, shall we say, intentions to that end.
I wish the best for all, including the obviously traumatized Mr. Curtis and those he is unfortunately traumatizing.
The best hope is that those that have stuck around this far will find some people to have a discussion with on these matters, in a live format. Too much opinionizing is allowed here to allow for actual productive discussion.
May you be struck, with the force of lightning, by a powerful idea, which provokes you to rethink in a creative way all teh assumptions that have buried your clarity of mind, of creativity.
Best wishes,
Steven

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
07-22-2005, 09:41 AM
You are right Steve, I was traumatized. I never experienced a group which was able to take so many talented people and burn them up in short time.
I myself have never experienced a cruelty and coldness in having elderly with dementia and alzheimers sign over savings.
I never knew I was going to be part of an org which justified its screwing of vendors and members as part of the price to save humanity.
I never thought I was asociating with a group which has close ties to hate groups.
I never thought there could be a group which claims to be Democrats, but screwed Democratic party candidates.
I never thought that a group with a front group named "The Club of Life" would promote abortions among its female members to save humanity.
I never thought I would be able to see a group where some members are fighting over a burger in the office, while massive banquets and drinking orgies are taking place in Lyn's mansion.
I never worked with a company where the boss is lavished with thousands of dollars every day in food, security, housing, travel and expenses, yet claims to not know where any of it comes form and never declares it as income.
I never worked with a group that calls itself law and order on crime in its campaign brochures and then flies out of the country many potential witnesses.
I never have witnessed a scene where Helga's dogs are landing at JFK Airport with a 5K fee in the back of the terminal, while the poor schlubs at the card table shrines in front of the terminal are given 5 bucks a day.
I never thought I was working for a PR firm for old German Nazis.
I never knew that publishing "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" was an integral part of the war on drugs.
I never knew we were courting blacks while at the same time we were doing work for the Old South African Apartheid regime.
I never knew that Dictators like Marcos, Noreiga and Peron were humanists.
Poor silly me thought that when you give us your credit card number, we would only use it once.
My very unsophisticated and backward finacial knowledge thought that you pay back loans.
I thought that the Human Species was to end in 1975, unless the Cuban frogmen hit team stopped Lyn from exposing the Rockefellers insatiable quest to reduce the population of the world. If the plot failed, then humanity ends in 1976 with Jimmy Carter, unless we expose the CFR in 1977, unless we........in 2005.
Get ready for that long walk Steven because we know where it is going. You won the arguement and I admit my weaknesses and traumatization.
You and others can do anything your hearts desire.
There is a cheap folding chair at a card table shrine with your name on it awaiting you.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com
(Message edited by Xlcr4life on July 22, 2005)

 

xylm (xylm)
07-22-2005, 09:52 AM
Education? If Steven had wide knowledge of ANY 'educational' topic Larouche preaches, he would hence not be a LYM. Unfortunately, no LYM has the ability to speak widely nor intrinsically on any topic. Take philosophy for instance, out of allllllll the integral viewpoints, theories, philosophical origins and interrelations out there the Larouchies only know Plato. If you were to ask a LYM about any other philosopher they would most of the time tell you he is 'anti-humanist' or occasionally make a 1-line-amateur slander they memorized from a Larouche pamphlet. Larouche is just like Plato…he appears good for mankind on the outside, but intrinsically he would be discovered as detrimental. Steven, why don't you read between the lines and then past the dialogues? If you did, you would realize that Plato has no faith in man or thinks of him as anything far past an animal. If he did, he wouldn't find the imperative to control and tame man to the extent he does. I greatly enjoy some of his dialogues, but I am disgusted and disappointed (or maybe even more knowledgeable of man) when Plato reveals his faith in man via his aristocratic laws. I'm going to leave this challenge and discovery to you Steven.
And since you don't know enough about any other significant philosopher of our time, ill play fair and challenge you to any philosophical discussion on Plato.

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-22-2005, 06:49 PM
Friends,
And I hope Mr. Curtis should very soon work through some of G.W. Leibniz's work, as I have found it demonstrates the power to overcome any psychological trauma that may rear its ugly head. We all know that you have been traumatized. That is a fact. Whether it occurred as a result of joining a sinister cult, as you claim, or as a result of having denied the reality of a Truthful movement. So I wish you the best and offer Leibniz to supplement your prayers.
Plato was Good. In fact, revolutionary. Rich philosophy is seen in many cultures in many periods. I have learned this under the implicit tutelage of Mr. LaRouche. Specifically, Leibniz was revolutionary in my personal mental development. And, in fact, I understand one philosopher "of our time" quite well, and in fact, he is significant enough to have directed your attention, in fact, in all, probably scores of hours worth, if not much more and, as Mr. Curtis explains, many great "talented people." His name is Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr.
So, I humbly accept your challenge. Let us, for example, discuss the last work you have read by Mr. LaRouche, and we shall discuss its viability and search for any traces of, shall we say, disgusting philosophy.
Respectfully,
Steven

 

neoprocrustes (neoprocrustes)
07-22-2005, 10:17 PM
test

 

neoprocrustes (neoprocrustes)
07-22-2005, 10:31 PM
Steven,
I think its pretty f-ed up and hypocritical for you to go to Yale (a premier institution and one embedded with any elitism in America) and at the same time push LaRouchism on others.
The worst part of the whole Larouche movement is the way in twhich it destroys promising young people's lives by having them drop out of college and squander their lives for this cause. In fact I believe thats why these boards got started.. to protect ppl from cults (i.e. throwing away their lives).
People like you me off. You tell others how horrible they are for not contributing to some cause all the while not wasting any of YOUR precious time on the cause... and "englihting others over a message board" doesn't count. Thats easy fun work. Working at tables for no pay and no future.... well at least I can respect those guys' efforts to TRY and make a difference.
You are obviously smart. You know that its a damn smart thing to have a college degree/ college education in the real world. And yet you espouse a system of belifs that denies true followers these fruits.
Now either drop out of college and dedicate your life to Laruches' ideals or stop telling other ppl to!

 

neoprocrustes (neoprocrustes)
07-22-2005, 10:49 PM
Now, assuming you just are into the philosophy of Larouche (in the same way that all college students learn and discuss philosophies)...hell, I think he has some interesting philosophies but I don't think ppl whoudl be forced to follow them/ dedicate their lives to them.
My college studies have been in Math and am not enough of an expert in other fields to debate those philosophies.
When it comes to math, Larouche spews jargon. The only coherent thoughts that comes across are that he Loves some mathematicians (Liebnetz, Gauss) and hates others (Euler, Cauchy). He calls math professors "occultists"
He gives little lectures on math, most of which is true but basic by College math standards... but which, most importantly, DOES NOT CONTRADICT COLLEGE MATHEMATICS. Larouchies talk about the complex plane and its many wonders.... HELLO! This exact stuff is covered 100 times deeper in a class on complex analysis which is a requirement for any standard math degree. It seems "occultists" are teaching the EXACT SAME stuff as larouche at a higher level.
Larouche takes a SIMPLE idea like "squaring a complex number involves doubling the angle and squaring the length" and writes a math for anti-dummies essay full of unrelated slanders:
(my rendition)
"Here we see that Cauchy was befuddled, perhaps from all the butt ing he was caught up in. Gauss astounded the world as he noticed that swuaring a complex number caused its angle to double, to the chagrin of Euler and his beastly a-priori thinking"
Math is a very direct science. If you have a point why not come out and say it clearly.
The only point Larouche seems to make is that he hates a-priori (i.e. axiomatic) thinking.... except for when he sates his axioms of course.
Granted math boils down to axioms which are not proven and I suppose you could debate things like the commutative law: "a+b"="b+a". Yes we have to take those sorts of axioms on faith for math to work but those axioms are pretty believable.
Anyways if you want to debate me on Larouche's mathematical philosophies I am here!

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
07-23-2005, 07:46 AM

  • Part Four***
    Tom came in at the last minute and replaced Ed who may have been sent out to do door to door work in the rougher LA neighborhoods as his reward for handling the Anti Dummies site.
    But something mysterious happened just as I told Ed that we were going to become good buddies and have a nice time here on AntiDummies. It seems that a former lYM member started to ask questions about what she went through in her short fling with the Glendale office. Some how, after joining a Larouche org, you are not just an expert on the physical and creative sciences, you are now an expert on the mental sciences. It seems that sitting through Beyond Psych classes and having the NC's examine your private intimate lives which will be told are worthless, every Tom , Dick and Harry in the org is now offering/giving Psychological advice and recomendations. This particular recruit was pointing out how she was recovering with the help of medical professionals, but she was told that studying Larouche will cure her. Of course, if you were in the office when this happened, things looked strange, but that's the norm. She brought up frightening stories on her blog about how the group now feels it can practise in the medical arts and has a few wanna be psychologists.
    I figured that this would be a great time to discuss how members who are beginning to question things can look forward to an invitation from one of the local leaders and spend a long time in a Beyond Psych session where basically you will be revealing your inner most thoughts and history to some leering old dead ender , whom after this is over, will now have some good fun with you in public . I thought this sick practise was ended and the group would figure out that this is nasty stuff which hurts people as they are not medically qualified. I guessed wrong.
    I wrote some posts about LC history for Ed and Tom, this one appeared for a quick one day visit following some questioning from the former member.
    • **
      xlcr xlcr <xlcr4life@hotmail.com> wrote:
      Some how, the posts that dispute any thing I raised have not yet appeared.
      The US is full of two types of LC people. Those who have left and gone on to
      tremendous success in life. The other group have been so hurt by the
      insanity of LHL, that they have yet to recover. Go ahead and read ALL of
      the previous lit, and then ask your self " What happened to those people?
      Look up all of the past campaigh FEC lists, and ask "what happened to those
      supporters?".
      My morality resume is clean. I saw too may people screwed, hurt and
      left broke. My conscience forces me to make the attempt to show you folks
      what is in store. If you notice, I have never attacked the reasons why your
      members wish to do good. I just wish to point out that you are hitching your
      cart to a dead horse. After several years of the daily insanity, you will
      wise up. My history goes way way way back. I was at those trials. I know
      where vast sums of money were spent, and not spent. Back in 1977, the
      briefing had a section after LHL and Helga"s wedding. The clip stated that
      after LHL is in the White House, The period between LHL's marriage and Xmas
      will be an international hioliday to celebrate all that they have done for
      humanity. In retrospect, I knew that was nuts and should have left. But, I
      thought things would get better. They got more crazy. In 83, LHL issued an
      internal memo stating that everything the org must revolve around him.
      Nothing else matters except him. That is when the exodus occured. Those who
      were closest to LHL in daily contact took off. They knew he was a drunken
      nut job. Propped up by a legion of sycophants. The field crew who were
      farther away, stuck around.
      So enjoy your self, penniless, childless and hopeless. Most of us who got
      out have done quite well, have families and have done very high level
      things. Some of us are involved in projects that actually accomplish
      something. One of the most revealing books I ever read was on L.Ron Hubbard
      of Scientology fame. The book was called "Bare Faced Messiah" and was an
      expose of Hubbard's crazy fantasies. After reading the book I brokew out in a
      sweat since the story of Hubbard and his nonsense was almost a carbon copy
      of how LHL thought things through. The conspiracies, The British, the
      security threats the lingo, frightening book.
      If you or anyone need advice, please feel free to e mail me. Life is better
      on the outside. You may end up like the LC veterans, broke. While ol Phil
      and ol Harley give MP3 briefings on financial matters and real estate, stuff
      he knows nothing about and does not nor will ever own.
      It feels good to be free, and doing great things for humanity, read my
      resume again.
      xlcr4life
      SInce most of my time is spent in the real world, I checked my email and lo and behold were a few emails from members who asked me to keep posting as they wondered why the old "Academy2004" site was shut down and this stuff was getting interesting. People really wanted to know how the org worked and what really was going as the version they get is silly and if you ask a question you will be told that " a nucler bomb could drop any mintue and why are you bothering us with this."
      I waited a few days and then found that I was booted off the site and posts 191 to 195 and 197 to 200 vanished. This appeared and prompted me to think about a Campaigner Lyn wrote called the "Stalin Campaigner". I guess the LYM must have had a class on it as any questions I raised about things like finacial fraud and especially the brainwashing series from Jan 1974, compete with Cuban frogmen ready to emerge from the Hudson and hunt us down were eliminated. Like this stuff never existed.

From: "antidummy" <antidummy@.. (antidummy@.).>
Date: Tue Jan 20, 2004 8:11 pm
Subject: Special Notice antidummy
Offline
Send Email
A change has been made to your antidummies membership.
Due to the Riemann for Anti-Dummies message board being used as a
vehicle for nag operations, messages will not be sent to individual e-
mails. Messages will appear on the message board only, with the
exception of Special Messages sent by the moderator.
It is unfortunate that our culture has degenerated. Obviously, the
internet culture often reflects a particularly dark aspect of that
degeneration. However, it is not impossible that our message board
can be used for the beneficial exchange of ideas. For example, one of
our members, who resided in Japan, is now coming to the United States
to organize for the LaRouche campaign.
If there are any useful questions related to this matter, please e-
mail them to antidummy@.. (antidummy@.)., or post them on the message board.
-antidummy
Tom had one last zinger for people.
From: Thomas Rooney
To: xlcr4life@hotmail.com
Subject: reply
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 01:57:13 -0800 (PST)
alkaselzter,
If your intent was to disorganize, I assure you, you have failed. For example, Zenji read all your messages, and he is going out organizing tomorrow for the first time.
If your intent was to get attention, like a child who misbehaves because mommy appears busy, you have succeeded. But, what you must understand, is that we are, in fact, very busy.
Now, you might have some legitimate grievances. Your diaper might be soiled, for example. You might have lost your toy! Who knows? In any event, you have my attention, but not for long. I read your messages, and I smell .
If you can see yourself as we see you, all you would see is a guilty failure hiding behind a computer, lashing out in a vain attempt to cure the useless pain. I assure you that no combination of words will ever hinder the mission.
You should just see all these young people!
-antidummy

Needless to say I was disapointed as just as people begin to question, the questions and the questioners vanish. Anti dummies had but 60 or so people, but it had an inside audience. If you want , register on yahoo groups and you can see that the site has been reborn as a clearing house for getting a date spam and hair growth products.
If you wish to see this series for yourself, go to:
http://wlym.com/pages/campaigners70-76.html
count down 6 thumbnails to the Feb March 1974 issue and download the PDF file. We called that the "OOPS Campaigner for you veterans. Read Lyn's intro and Chris White's article. Then think about how over the years, several security people and participants to those events of Jan 1974 admitted that the whole thing was a sham.
And that's how the thirtieth anniversary of an important event for Lyn and the org was celebrated.
One final note from "The Academy2004" site. There was a guy , I think his name was Andy who entered the org pretty excited and then left. According to his posts, he went back to college and became a graduate student in Philospohy and has a lot of math graduate work. It was a while ago, but he too was often attacked with the polemic machine gun when he challenged people with serious info on the what the Larouche stuntmen were reciting. I wish he was still around, that dude was a one bad footnote slinger. He ran circles around people as I think he was fluent in a few languages and read many materials in the original language and studied the field intenseley. No poseur, the real deal.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com
(Message edited by Xlcr4life on July 24, 2005)

 

borisbad (borisbad)
07-24-2005, 02:49 PM
It would be interesting to know how many members of the LYM have read Oswald Spengler and his Rise and Fall of the West since that is where a lot of the LaRouche ideology about the elites comes from especially his idea about the Promethean vs. Dionysian and Appollonian individual. Probably some Nietsche is thrown in as well although LHL prefers to coat things with so-called American System and Western European Renaissance thinkers that do not figure so prominently in the pantheon of fascist organizations. This article throws interesting light on the period when LaRouche began actively promoting the Atlantis myth. For those who are incredulous about the frogmen stories, is that more far gone than supporting the Atlantis myth as a real story of human history? And I can tell those who don't believe about the frogmen, I was one of those deployed onto Hudson and Morton Street where LaRouche used to live at the time, watching to see if any suspicious Cubans were in the area.}}
{LAROUCHE'S "NEO-PLATONISM": RECYCLED NAZI OCCULTISM
by a former member of the LaRouche organization.
Although the "tactical" shifts of the LaRouche cult may require it to assume a wide variety of chameleon-like forms with which, and through which, to organize specific rightwing layers, inside the cult itself, within the "cadres" of the NCLC, European Labor Committees, and other "core groups", a systematic and relatively unified set of doctrines has been developed, an "occult inner knowledge" which is defined as the "method" which guides LaRouche, since he himself is the alleged author of it. These "Secrets known only to the Inner Elites" as LaRouche himself defined it in a major statement in the NCLC theoretical magazine "Campaigner", is actually not even the product of LaRouche's own perverse thinking, although it coheres with most of his actual world view even in his supposed "socialist" phase. This occultism, which LaRouche calls "Neo-Platonism" and "Humanism", is familiar to anyone, whether bourgeois scholar or militant anti-fascist investigator, who has examined the early fascist and Nazi movements. Although there are a few new "twists" that LaRouche has himself added, as an attempted currying up to specifically American chauvinist tastes, his set of doctrines is essentially identical to the occultism of the Nazis, both in its early "radical" and fragmented stages as well as in the later, more consolidated, expressions such as suited the Nazis when in power.
LaRouche's "Neo-Platonism", as he himself has admitted on many occasions both in writing and in speeches, is an intentional political code through which the Labor Party, Fusion Energy Foundation, or LaRouche's own "Presidential campaigns" can make "signals" to the whole range of rightist, fascist, and neo-nazi groupings - whose leaders if not members, are familiar with the terms and concepts involved. This paper shall make it clear that the use of Oswald Spengler's fascist occultism, for example, a primary inspiration for nazis and neo-nazis alike, is also a major influence upon such rightist formations as the John Birch Society, as well as LaRouche and his cult. Thus, when LaRouche begins to make extensive remarks about Atlantis, for example, it is no coincidence that the official program of the National Renaissance Party should be called "The New Atlantis", that the use of the Atlantis myth by Plato should be a major source of doctrine for Spengler's "Decline of the West", in the period before the Nazis took power, and that the identical theme should also pervade various other reactionary "counter-culture" cults, whether explicitly "primitivist" or "technocratic" in their belief-structures.
Several of LaRouche's pet obsessions are derived directly from Spengler's "Decline of the West". In some cases the identical phraseology of the two tempts one to identify LaRouche's theories as "Neo-Plagiarism" The great polemic against "Entropy" as the enemy of progress, the siding with Leibniz against Einstein, in physics, defined as a question of not only politics, but "good" versus "evil" religiosity, and in particular, the breaking down of historical phases and modes into three great definitive elemental "essences", all of these Larouchian formulas can be found, intact, in Spengler's work.
Spengler starts off section XIV of the chapter on "Nature-Knowledge" of his "Decline of the West" (page 420, 1927 Knopf edition): "Amongst these symbols of doom, the most conspicuous is the notion of Entropy…what has never hitherto been fully felt, and what leads me to regard the Entropy theory (1850) as the beginning of the destruction of that masterpiece of Western intelligence, the old dynamic physics, is the deep opposition of theory and actuality..." Spengler identifies the "old dynamic physics" with the same primary figures which LaRouche claims showed him how to "correct", and then reject, Marx. The index to Spengler's book shows that he makes more reference to Leibniz than any other individual person except for Nietzsche and Kant. Riemann, another LaRouche favorite, is also abundantly treated by Spengler.
Spengler's book is an attempt to mesh classical Greek philosophical concepts, particularly the elitist metaphysics of Plato, with the modernity of mathematics, physics, and the other rigorous sciences. American brands of occultism, such as the Scientology cult, have often been based on this particular blend, but it is LaRouche who claims to develop this into a formal ideology, even a religious belief. In the "Case of Walter Lippman", LaRouche's primary "Presidential" statement, the Spenglerian formula that divides history into three general modes of expression is restated by LaRouche as the division of all "Epistemology" into "Promethan", "Appollonian" and "Dionysian". The first category is claimed to be that of LaRouche and his following as well as a "handful" of the world's "inner elites", but it is also meant to represent, as in classical fascist ideology, the "essence of the Western Soul", the supposed occult inner dynamic that has given the European capitalists, and also the American imperialists, a special "right" and "duty" to rule the world.
In Chapter IX of "Decline of the West", Spengler presents the notions that LaRouche bases this formula on. This chapter, "Soul-Image and Life-Feeling -- On The Form of the Soul", presents Spengler's idea of the "... Soul-image as function of World-Image... Psychology of a counter-physics ... Appollonian, Magian, and Faustian soul-image..." It is clear that Spengler's "Faustian" is the same as LaRouche's "Promethean". Likewise, both use the Appollonian category in the same sense, while the third category -- Dionysian or Magian -- is reserved for all those "alien" concepts and influences which are judged by Spengler and LaRouche to be responsible for all the evils affecting otherwise "dynamic" western civilization.
After Spengler, but before LaRouche, Oswald Mosley, the British fascist, is to produce an identical occultist system, also, like LaRouche, partially as a code to conceal advocacy of policies, which would otherwise be condemned as nazi. In Chapter 25, "The Faustian Riddle", of "Oswald Mosley" by Robert Skidelsky, it is described how Mosley, during the time that he was interned as a suspected nazi agent during world War II, concentrated on translating Goethe's "Faust" from German into English, as well as working on writings of the 18th century German neo-Hellenists, other than Goethe. On pages 479, 500, and elsewhere in his book, unabashed Mosley admirer Skidelsky points out Mosley's study of the "Platonic problem of making men fit for power", and the need for the post-war fascist movement to developed a "Platonic Academy" (page 500). This particular project has become a pet obsession with LaRouche.
The "Blue Book" of the John Birch Society, which is the organization's basic political manual and statement of beliefs, written by Robert Welch the JBS founder, also makes extensive references to and use of this Spenglerism. The 12th printing of the Blue Book issued in 1961, presents it as following. Section One contains the standard anti-communist paranoid schema. However, Section Two, entitled "But Let's Look Deeper" (page 41, 1961 edition) presents the actual internal rationale, for Welch as with other elitist fascists, for the anti-communism itself. Welch writes, in the second paragraph of this Section, "In my opinion, the first great basic weakness of the United States, and hence its susceptibility to the disease of collectivism, is simply the age of the Western European civilization. Some of you will already have recognized, in fact that I am drawing a corollary to the conclusions usually connected with the name of Oswald Spengler... the convincing way in which Darwin's general theory fitted the known facts of human history just would not let his conclusion be downed and forgotten ... Until at last the international socialists, with the Fabians and Labor Party bosses in England taking the lead, made one grand and lasting effort to have Spengler discredited…" Like LaRouche is to do more than a decade and a half later, Welch identifies the Fabians as the special enemies of "western civilization" and its would-be spokesmen.
The use of the terms "Dionysian", "Magian", etc. as code-words for anti-Semitic attacks against ideological enemies or rivals, a tradition begun by pre-Nazi fascist and racialist ideologues, was passed on into the lexicon of the early attempts at building mass fascist political movements through the droves of White Russian counter-revolutionary émigrés who flooded the greater and lesser capitals and cities of the west after the 1917 revolution. These layers had inherited the occultist traditions within the decadent Russian nobility as well as were popular, spiced with the fabrications of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, in the ranks of the Czarist secret police, the Okhrana. After the revolution, bookshops in Paris and London were flooded with books written by dispossessed nobility, which laid the blame for Bolshevism upon "dark forces", especially the alleged "international Jewish conspiracy". Seeking to open up relations with homegrown reactionary and rightist currents, many of these books were written in an occult or semi-coded form, using categories already familiar to the conspiracy-fixated French rightwing, for example.
This material has been picked up by LaRouche and his associates, lock stock and barrel, and has been "recycled" and "updated" for use as a basis for a neo-fascist ideology and movement in this country, whether this movement is to be actually composed of the NCLC, USLP, etc. They are intended to serve as the advance guard of this movement, testing the waters with various formulas and approaches in such a way as larger, more factionally-interlinked, rightist formations cannot do. This is clear when we examine the similarity, if not identical character, of the early fascist occultism with LaRouche's.
One of the best sellers in the White Russian/ occult fascist category is a book, recently reprinted by Steiner Books (Blauvelt, New York, 1971) entitled: "Atlantis/Europe: The Secret of the West". This book was written in the 1920's by Dimitri Merejkowski, son of an official at the Czar's court, in exile in France after 1917, who remained in Paris when it was occupied by the Nazis, considered favorable to the fascist cause generally, and died there in 1941. This book is entirely constructed, as is LaRouche's occultism, around Plato, the myth of Atlantis, and the lessons of the "fall of Atlantis" for the "West". Merejkowski draws extensively from Plato's "Timaeus", which was recently reprinted in an allegedly new "truthful" translation, by the LaRouche cult, and considered the main source for the Atlantis myth. The main theme that emerges from all of the various uses of this myth, including by the reactionary Plato himself, is that Atlantis -- the West--is "betrayed", or threatened by "betrayal", from within, from alien elements that violate the principle of hierarchy - so-called "Natural Law' - by their alleged rebellion or dissent against the ruling elites. All of them identify this rebellion or dissent with "primitive", "backward" Dionysian, "sub-human, bestial", and other such categories. All the Plato-loving occultists make Science and the ruling Religion synonymous, so that dissent is an alleged "threat to Progress". (Along these same lines, striking workers are accused by LaRouche and his cult of being "Luddites", "anarchists", enemies of progress, etc.)
Other than Merejkowski, another White Russian exile who had an even more direct personal role in the development of nazism was Alfred Rosenberg. Rosenberg's writings recently reprinted ("Race and Race History and other essays", Harper & Row 1970, series of books on "roots of the right") express many strong similarities with both the Spengler occult-fascist tradition as well as LaRouche's neo-fascism today. Rosenberg uses the Platonic occultist categories to define those he identifies as the "alien enemy" of the West - like Spengler and LaRouche, Rosenberg firmly beliefs in a conspiracy theory of history. Rosenberg first identifies the "spiritual" nature of the enemy as he sees it in the first essay in this collection (pages 49-50) "….Dionysus entered into Greek life as something racially and spiritually foreign and in this role he was a sure sign of the physical decline that accompanied the decline of the Nordic race. Under the flickering light of torches, accompanied by the clashing of metal cymbals and hand-clapping and the shrilling of flutes, Dionysian celebrants collect themselves into a swirling circle-dance ... Each and every one of these customs was completely opposed to those of the Greeks. They represented the 'religion of frenzy' which dominated the entire eastern region of the Mediterranean, a religion borne by the Afro-Asian races and race mixtures."
This attack by Rosenberg is identical to the attacks that LaRouche makes in his various writings against what he calls the "Dionysians", the "Cult of Isis", and the "anti-humanist secret elites", all code words for the traditional fascist bogeyman--the Jewish people. LaRouche's "The Case of Walter Lippman" (page 117) is illustrated with a full-page picture from an ancient Greek vase, with the sub-title "...Dionysus, ancient god of wine, and modern symbol of the nominalist and Tory world outlook..." The theme of the modern revolutionary and left-wing movements an being "Dionysian" shown up again and again in LaRouche's works . In his "Secrets Known Only to the Inner Elites" May 1978). Larouche states: "...Dionysian cults, yesterday and today, throughout the centuries are a basic item of anti-humanist social control techniques..." together with illustrations (pages 22, 23) portraying alleged "Dionysiac frenzies".
Rosenberg continues his version of history along the same lines as LaRouche. Like LaRouche and other fascists after him, Rosenberg idealizes particularly the person he calls "inconceivably great", Frederick II of the Hohenstauffens (page 73-74, "Race and Race History") who Rosenberg says, "formed the first secular state, the Sicilian royal house, and who settled its provinces with German aristocrats..." Like LaRouche, Rosenberg, drawing upon the Spenglerian "thesis" about western science, declares that Leibniz is the source of inspiration for "true" "German" modern physics, as opposed to "English empiricism" which is equated with the Dionysian or "nominalist and bestialist world outlook." Rosenberg (page 87, "Race and Race History") declares; "...Leibniz was opposed to the mechanical atomism of someone like Hobbes, who maintained that society, a totality, originated from an adding together of unformed pieces ... Leibniz claimed that the blending together of the individual and the general consummated itself in the form of individuality, and, in so doing, this synthesis concretizes itself in a living, unique manner.... Similarly, Herder, who in one way was seeking a humanistic absolute, penetrated even more deeply into the great thought of Leibniz..." This type of thinking is exactly what LaRouche represents today. Use and misuse of the ideas of Leibniz or whoever is used as a smoke screen for a racialist and elitist occultism, the threads from which nazi and fascist ideologies were always woven.
As far as any actual "philosophical" content that can be ascribed to this whole world-outlook, the following must be pointed out. Despite various differences in the forms and formulas employed, Spengler, Rosenberg, and LaRouche are all associated with an attempt to separate the dialectical method from, and against, materialism. They all attempt to separate the conclusions of modern science from, and against, the traditions of scientific method that led up to those conclusions. Separating science out from, and pitting it against materialism, an allegedly "bestial" and "alien" world outlook, they are forced to "replace" it by adding in the religious, occult and mythic component. Thus, the grotesque anachronism of LaRouche, like the nazi scientists who worked on attempted nuclear weaponry at the end of the war, blending scientific advances, including nuclear technology, together with occultism, an occultism that actually itself stems from pre-capitalist and feudalist outlook.
An examination of the occultist ideas associated with the whole range of stages of the development of fascism, from its early forms to its recent "neo" phase, shows LaRouche to be only the latest, even if one of the less original, of a tradition, a tradition that even under the LaRouchian guise of "humanism" is the veritable enemy of Humanity, and in the name of "Progress", the sworn enemy of all progressives. [Additional Notes On Nazis and Atlantis]
It is no coincidence that of all the elements of "Neo-Platonism", as applied by LaRouche, the Platonic mythology and symbology of Atlantis should be particularly important. The irony of the use of the Atlantis myth by LaRouche in that association with this myth actually points to a completely regressive view of history, a view of history that is the opposite of any notion of historical progress! Essentially the myth of Atlantis, as defined in Plato's original conception, and as understood by LaRouche and other neo-fascist occultists, states that history begins at a certain peak, a height, from which it is descending. Atlantis, a supposedly higher civilization, was destroyed, from, within and through "betrayal", etc., and all those stages of civilization that have followed have been basically lower forms as they move further into the present period, and thus further away from the earlier Atlantean "Golden Age." This reactionary occultism also underlies the outlooks that permeate the ranks of believers in UFO's, hollow-earth quacks, and the current pyramid and "lost civilizations" cult generally.
In LaRouche's particular version of this mythology, Atlantis' fall was followed by the rule of "bestialists" and "anti-humanists", under which he groups practically all of the cultures of ancient history as we know it, which LaRouche declares to be a "monstrous fraud" since it leaves out the earlier "Golden Age". After the fall of Atlantis, in LaRouche's eyes as in Plato's, the Atlantean knowledge was passed on through "secret elites", down through history. Furthermore, all actual scientific discovery and artistic creativity is explained, not through actual historical progress as a scientifically-defined process, but as "secret knowledge" which has been "leaked" out to the non-elite masses by the secret elites.
The nazi high-command, like Larouche, have a long documented history of fascination with, and use of, the Atlantis mythology. "The Morning of the Magicians" (Pauwels and Bergier, 1960) dealt in some detail with the occultism of the nazi movements, before and during the period when they took power. This book points out that the occultism of the nazis was not merely a feature of their "early" or "kooky" phase, when fascist gangs were formed out of occult societies like the Thule Society, but was also carried right into the decision-making circles of the nazi leadership during the war. Records on OSS activity show that this element of the nazis' profile was closely studied and exploited by allied intelligence services and their psychological-warfare "black operations" branches.
On page 206, Rauschning, Hitler's personal aide, is quoted: "...At bottom, every German has one foot in Atlantis, where he seeks a better Fatherland and a better patrimony. The double nature of the Germans, this faculty they have of splitting their personality which enables them to live in the real world and at the same time to, project themselves into an imaginary world, is especially noticeable in Hitler and provides the key to his 'magic socialism'…"
Part Two (190-284) of "Morning of the Magicians" deals extensively with the occultism of the early and later nazis, and its links to their scientific and pseudo-scientific researches including their efforts in rocketry, nuclear [etc].
In the section of their book on the Nazi use of the Atlantis myth, Pauwels and Bergier identify the origins of this idea in early Nazism in the person of one Hans Horbiger, a quack scientist-physicist who in 1925 began organizing his own movement as an explicit scientific-academic parallel to Hitler's brownshirts. Horbiger still has over one million followers in the world today, largely in West Germany! Perhaps they are supporters of the "Atlantean" zombies of LaRouche's West German affiliate, the ELP. In any case, Horbiger believed that several succeeding higher civilizations on the earth had each been destroyed by a series of cataclysms wherein three of the earth's four moons had fallen on the earth, causing the disaster. According to Horbiger, the present moon is the fourth, also scheduled to fall. In his scheme, Atlantis is the third, or previous, civilization to our own, higher than ours in every way. Horbiger, like Hitler, saw the Germans, the "Aryans" as being the "true" descendants of the lost Atlanteans. All others are "subhuman" and in fact are a totally different "species", a favorite LaRouche conception!

 

anon127 (anon127)
07-24-2005, 08:42 PM
"steven, u still around..."
"I'm here, friend."
...but the question remains...u still in yale...or u planning to put ur life where yr mouth is ..and drop out?

 

dave72 (dave72)
07-24-2005, 09:05 PM
Sorry to do a copy and paste job here instead of writing something original. This is from Richard Hofstadter's, "Paranoid Style in American Politics" written in 1964. I've always found it uncanny how well this describes Larouche.
"The paranoid spokesman sees the fate of conspiracy in apocalyptic terms—he traffics in the birth and death of whole worlds, whole political orders, whole systems of human values. He is always manning the barricades of civilization. He constantly lives at a turning point. Like religious millenialists he expresses the anxiety of those who are living through the last days and he is sometimes disposed to set a date fort the apocalypse. ("Time is running out," said Welch in 1951. "Evidence is piling up on many sides and from many sources that October 1952 is the fatal month when Stalin will attack.")
As a member of the avant-garde who is capable of perceiving the conspiracy before it is fully obvious to an as yet unaroused public, the paranoid is a militant leader. He does not see social conflict as something to be mediated and compromised, in the manner of the working politician. Since what is at stake is always a conflict between absolute good and absolute evil, what is necessary is not compromise but the will to fight things out to a finish. Since the enemy is thought of as being totally evil and totally unappeasable, he must be totally eliminated—if not from the world, at least from the theatre of operations to which the paranoid directs his attention. This demand for total triumph leads to the formulation of hopelessly unrealistic goals, and since these goals are not even remotely attainable, failure constantly heightens the paranoid's sense of frustration. Even partial success leaves him with the same feeling of powerlessness with which he began, and this in turn only strengthens his awareness of the vast and terrifying quality of the enemy he opposes.
The enemy is clearly delineated: he is a perfect model of malice, a kind of amoral superman—sinister, ubiquitous, powerful, cruel, sensual, luxury-loving. Unlike the rest of us, the enemy is not caught in the toils of the vast mechanism of history, himself a victim of his past, his desires, his limitations. He wills, indeed he manufactures, the mechanism of history, or tries to deflect the normal course of history in an evil way. He makes crises, starts runs on banks, causes depressions, manufactures disasters, and then enjoys and profits from the misery he has produced. The paranoid's interpretation of history is distinctly personal: decisive events are not taken as part of the stream of history, but as the consequences of someone's will. Very often the enemy is held to possess some especially effective source of power: he controls the press; he has unlimited funds; he has a new secret for influencing the mind (brainwashing); he has a special technique for seduction (the Catholic confessional)."

 

anon127 (anon127)
07-25-2005, 06:05 AM
steven..u still around?

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
07-25-2005, 03:21 PM
I will catch up here in a day or so. Study and network calls.
Best,
Steven

 

anon127 (anon127)
07-25-2005, 10:23 PM
study ????
i hope u mean lhl literature...and not those yale textbooks.
jason ross once wrote..."burn the textbooks."
and he dropped out of stanford in his last semester just to prove it...and not because he was sharp or merely trying to impress the org or fit in with org popular opinion.
network calls ????
that u do during nite...or didn't the org teach u that...during the day u go out there into the field, set up that table, and sell that lit.
something tells me u hv commitment issues...just another blocked college kid trying to pretend he's in...

 

anon127 (anon127)
07-26-2005, 10:53 PM
steve..u there...or did u drop out of this, just like u dropped out of the lym to go to yale?

 

xylm (xylm)
07-27-2005, 10:21 AM
Has anyone ever looked into the correspondence of Edgar Allen's Purloined Letter to Larouche's rhetoric? Dennis King advocates in his book that Larouche reference's the Purloined Letter as one of the many hidden meanings to his fascist cohorts. According to King, Larouche makes the reference to convey a 'way' or understanding of his writings that only his cohorts can correctly interpret. In 'The Secrets Known Only To The Inner Elites', Larouche starts his first paragraph,
"The cleverest way, psychologically, in which to hide a secret is to divert the investigator down a tiring trail toward a false discovery. His own efforts convince him either that he has found a secret through great energy and cleverness on his own part, or, if the secret he seeks appears still but to barely elude his grasp, he values all the more his continued course of misdirection. That is the lesson which can be learned from Edgar Allan Poe's fictional case of The Purloined Letter. Exemplary of the follies into which presumably educated and informed people are misled in the pursuit of the snipe, are the doctrines of the "international Jewish conspiracy" and the recently more popular "international communist conspiracy." During the twentieth century, more people have been turned into dupes along those two false-trail pursuits than any competing obsessions."
My understanding of the lesson to be learned from the Purloined letter is to imitate or think like a criminal in order to appropriately unravel his clues. However, there are a couple underpinnings to the said statement that im guessing King is referring to. The detective describes to the narrator his strategy as follows: Picture a game of puzzles in which one player finds a name on a map and tells the other player to find it as well. Ametuars, says the detective, pick the names with the smallest letters. According to the detective's logic, the hardest names to find are actually those that stretch broadly across the map because they are so obvious.
As you read above, Larouche concretely removed any belief of anti-semiticism at the inception of his book, however, the rest of the book seems to convey that jews who are jews are bad and jews who are not jews are good. Would anybody like to share their thoughts, inputs, and/or corrections?

 

lyndylalush (lyndylalush)
07-27-2005, 04:22 PM
P.S. Another reason not to squander one's time in dissecting LaRouche's ramblings is that absolutely no one - including his own followers - reads this crap. Especially now, as the old man teeters to his squalid demise, is his writing style literally impossible to decipher. Therefore, why should anyone worry him/herself to contradict ideas which no one could or would assimilate in the first place, and which therefore have no power or influence whatever. The only followers he has remaining are the old kept in place by the inertia of small formal schooling and less funds, and the young otherwise prone to self-destruction (as I was.) No mature, self-respecting, intelligent human being would EVER have the LEAST thing to do with this sputtering little crank or his epigonoi.

 

kow (kow)
07-29-2005, 06:22 PM
In other words, "Don't read what LaRouche has to say, because I didn't understand it"

 

lyndylalush (lyndylalush)
07-29-2005, 09:09 PM
Correct. Nor does anyone understand it. One can only pretend to understand it. To take a random factoid: LaRouche extolls Gauss and derides Newton, yet Gauss was a fervent admirer of Newton. Oh, but since LHL is the "greatest mind since Leibniz," he would also be a greater mind than Gauss, so can appreciate the special evil represented by the _Principia_ author, an evil which also escaped another admirer, the mediocre Bernhard Riemann. LHL criticizes "linearity" but has never once in all his blathering since the 1950s EVER been able to put forth any adequate substitute for "linearity in the small." He has never done it, nor will he ever do it: all he does is rail against it. Of course he has read enough to know of Abraham Robinson's nonstandard analysis, but LHL is unlikely to credit a Jew. One can look at eny field of endeavor which LHL has sullied with his alcoholic fog and adduce many, many such contradictions. That is, if (1) one can draw simple deductions (which no LaRouchite can muster), (2) one is reasonably well educated in the classics (which LaRouche, the confused autodidact, is not), and (3) one is SANE and unwilling to countenance material which is self-contradictory prima facie.
The point is that LaRouche is not interested in "ideas," he is interested in CONTROL and being REGARDED as some kind of Promethean "thinker." Why do you think he zeroes in on 18-25 y.o.'s? These are people with little education and less experience of the world - much like Lyn himself - who occupy a hostile fantasy world of what psychiatrists term "magical realism": it's true if I say it's true. That is the anthem of the LaRouchite: "Lyn says it's true, so it must be true." As when Lyn taught in the early to mid seventies that Nelson Rockefeller was the author of all evil in the world. The _Campaigner_ issues are all there on the LYM website, you can read the nonsense for yourself.
Lastly, you might want to ask yourself why the "Zionism is Not Judaism" _Campaigner_ is missing from the LYM website? Hmmm? Why don't you ask the self-hating Jews Judah Philip Rubenstein or Harley Schlanger to allow you to have a gander at that gem?
www.justiceforjeremiah.com (http://www.justiceforjeremiah.com)

 

kow (kow)
07-30-2005, 09:13 AM
So the website you post about poor dead Jeremiah is true because you and they say it is true?

 

lyndylalush (lyndylalush)
07-30-2005, 04:33 PM
I and they provide arguments; Fearless Leader provides naught but assertions.
www.justiceforjeremiah.com (http://www.justiceforjeremiah.com)
I also am free to live life as I choose: are YOU?

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
07-30-2005, 07:52 PM
"So the website you post about poor dead Jeremiah is true because you and they say it is true?"
Unlike the Cuban frogman assasins emerging from the Hudson river and the brainwashing of members in 1974, there is a real death and a real investigation and a real victim and a real time frame and a family who has been shattered by the delusions of this group.
Anyone who has children would be shocked that the death of the Duggan's son is now part of a man's delusions and part of a campaign platform! To see your son grow up with all of the world available to him and now be part of a massive international plot and conspiracy is something most normal people have a hard time understanding.
There is a reason why the group kept the story away from the members and why Lyn issued a statement on the old web site about NO ONE is to mention or talk about it. See the current yahoo anti dummy site and notice how many posts have been removed as LYM members are only supposed to ask why Lyn is so smart and they are not. You are not supposed to question things like why did so many people fly in from Europe to the US right after that Weisbaden conference.
Back in the 1980's we were not supposed to question where several members were and why they were in Europe during the Boston Grand Jury investigation.
When the first lawsuits came in the 1980's for our promissorry note shuffle, those were kept secret and we were told that the person suing us is "An agent or connected to the Get Larouche operation of the ADL". When our supporteres were complaining about double charges on their credit cards, we told the phone teams that it was just "clerical errors". When the calls and complaints increased, that too became part of the "Get Larouche" operation.
There were people crying over the loss of their savings. It certainly was not us doing the crying.
To read a larouche press release stating that this case is a "hoax" created by Dick Cheney and the British to stop Lyn's drive to the White House should be viewed by the LYM as their intro to the Bizarro world.
Many of us had certain events we either witnessed or were part of that forced us to reexamine our lives.
If you folks in org take the following as a serious explanation of that fatal day, then you have lost a lot more than the remaining semesters of your college life as a yute, or your final years as a deadender.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com
The intro from:
http://www.justiceforjeremiah.com/bizarre_case_of_baroness_symons.html
The following appendix provides a detailed account of a clas*sic "black operation, " run through the present-day networks of the Congress for Cultural Freedom, and its offshoot American Family Foundation; and steered, top-down, from the London Fabian Society circles, who are the ultimate authors of the pre*sent sole-superpower imperial dogma associated most publicly with U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney and the Washington neo-conservatives. From the very outset, the politically driven "Get LaRouche" operations have been steered by the Congress for Cultural Freedom apparatus, beginning with the role of CCF founder Sidney Hook, in declaring LaRouche persona non grata following the December 1971 New York City debate between LaRouche and Prof. Abba Lemer, the dean of the so-called American Keynesian economists. LaRouche forced Lemer to openly defend the brutal austerity programs of Hitler's own Economics Minister, Hjalmar Schacht, prompting Hook to deliver his pointed threat to LaRouche: "You are a potential threat now; you will never be allowed to become a genuine threat. "
Wall Street banker John Train, a founder, along with Stephen Spender and Edward Goldsmith, of the CFF publica*tion Paris Review, was the private sector's point man for the 1984-89 Justice Department witch-hunt against LaRouche and associates. The Cybernetics Group/MK-Ultra/CCF project, the American Family Foundation, was pivotal in the 1980s Train/Justice Department actions, and is once again, as docu*mented below, at the center of the efforts to silence LaRouche and his political movement.
Read this as a case study of how those "Beast-Man" promot*ers of the "Sexual Congress for Cultural Fascism" operate today.
The LaRouche in 2004 Campaign has amassed a vast amount of evidence that the British Fabian Society "New Labour" inner circles around Prime Minister Tony Blair and the 10 Downing Street intelligence and dirty tricks apparatus, are engaged in a trans-Atlantic criminal interven*tion to disrupt the upcoming Democratic Party nominating convention, scheduled for late July 2004 in Boston, Mass. The focal point of the effort is to sabotage the Demo*cratic Party Presidential challenge to the incumbent Bush-Cheney Administration by blocking the full participation of Presidential candidate Lyndon LaRouche in the events, whether as the party's nominee or as a leading policy voice, for restoring the Democratic Party to its historically


  • Read the whole release and come to your own conclusion.
    This is sick stuff, not just paranoid, drunken ramblings like most of us were used to seeing. Back then, people just lost their money coming into contact with us.
 

lyndylalush (lyndylalush)
07-30-2005, 08:35 PM
I would like to know how many other people LaRouche has had murdered. Thus far I know only of NKVD-style calls in the middle of the night and slashed tires, together of course with detraction, libel, and slander, and the grand larceny referenced above.
Knowing all this, anyone who chooses to surrender to be a LaRouche acolyte is of either a criminal or a defective mentality.
And these are "humanists," mind you.
www.justiceforjeremiah.com (http://www.justiceforjeremiah.com)

 

kow (kow)
07-30-2005, 10:29 PM
I find it interesting that you can claim that what LaRouche does is a big conspiracy, without evidence, as what you post is here say, and then refute LaRouche's conspiracy "theories" based on the "fact" that's all of what he says is "just looney."

 

lyndylalush (lyndylalush)
07-31-2005, 07:49 AM
"Here say"? It is precisely to you semiliterates that LaRouche appeals: he helps you to imagine yourselves as intellects of power when you should just sit humbly for one hour a day and acquaint yourselves with the dictionary.
By the way, it seems to me a conspiracy was proven in court, which is why your god spent so much time in the slammer. Furthermore, I squandered a great deal of my time in the LaRouche organization and know first hand that the first order of business each and every day was to LIE, e.g., through the use of front groups to draw well-meaning people in.
Lastly, what I post here is for the benfit of you and people like you. I have many other better things to do than to continually rehash the truth about the NCLC on this message board. So, listen carefully. I too once believed fervently in Lyn and the goals of the organization, but my life and the life of many of my friends was DESTROYED by him. Therefore, take heed.
www.justiceforjeremiah.com (http://www.justiceforjeremiah.com)

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
07-31-2005, 10:26 AM
Kow, the conspiracy, or joke if you will, is on you not us. We went throught this and can honestly tell you that every single word you read and hear has been written and said before by Lyn and remaining deadenders to several new batches of recruits over and over for three decades.
You can read virtually any speech at a conference and have dejavu all over again. All you have to do is just substitute the latest demons of paranoia emminating from a fermented grape induced haze for the last set of demons and enemies. Keep the economic collapse schtick going, throw in some high tech toys like a maglev, throw in some names from history, mention FDR a few times and you too can address the next cadre school.
Speaking of cadre schools, see what you had to endure last month.
http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/speeches_files/2005/050723_wc_cadre.htm
This is strictly for you yutes who question why they are dropping out of school for a convicted tax swindler, double charge credit card and promissarry note King. What will NEVER be told to you is that the investigations were initiated by many of our supporters, NOT ENEMIES, who called the local police and state AG offices about their promissory note defaults. In quite a few cases, it was the children of elderly parents who called the police. When I was Steve's age Kow, I did my fair share of talking to local constables about these issues. We also had a little trouble with some banks who had complaints about their credit card bills.
The orgs reaction is a classic routine where you never address the issue of owing money, but create an incredible complex axiom of Larouche enemies who are out to get him. You put the org on one of the never ending mobes and hope that no one actually reads or finds out what is really going on. Most of the members who handled the finances and saw the never ending stream of law suits jumped ship and swam as far away as they could.
You yutes are just a replacement for the previous yutes who wised up and left. I will admit, I was young and foolish too. My view of what the org was SUPPOSED to do and become was crushed by the cult of personality. Lyn still has a few years left and you can look forward to keeping Helga nice and happy for many years after that.
It is quite intoxicating to think you have power and to think you are among the elites of the globe. Lyn has a basic formula where the underlings do a lot of research and writing about many things. Lyn takes what he calls "the gist" of the work and then writes a new opus.
The opus changes slightly from week to week and is basically a cut an paste of previous writings with the "New and Secret" tid bits thrown in. If you followed the pubs for years and see how the articvles are written, it gets quite predictable.
What happens to the yutes and unlearned individuals is that Lyn will take any person out of history, give you some basic material to impress you and then go for the kill. Every event and person will have an obligatory "secret insider" knowledge that only Lyn has uncovered and related to the present situation. AT a conference we oohh and ahhh this stuff and then think that we are now the conveyors of hidden and secret knowledge.
You want hidden and secret knowledge? Try to figure out the off shore and Euro accounts and which one of Lyn's ex wives, son, grand kids, sister and current fraulein will get the booty.
In fact, many of us used to joke about the NS centerfolds because if you read one, you read them all. As the circle of demons was increased, each new centerfold and speech just incorporated the new demons.
The easiest way for the yutes to figure out who the enemy is to try and see if you can name who is not an enemy of Lyn, do the math and figure that the rest of the world is conspiring against him. The most common denominator will of course be Jewish in name and spirit.
I gave a URL for the "Mars Society" a few weeks ago. I hope the yutes have looked at it and can see if they can figure out something about it.
Finally, if you wish to see how moral the org is. Ask your local NC or Leesburg deadender to provide the list of promissarry notes issued, and how each one was paid back. Sine at least 15 years have passed, I would suspect that all of the money should have been refunded with interest and we are all just making this stuff up.
We had a joke in the National that our "promissarry" notes became "promissorry" notes whenever a supporter asked for his or her money. Forget the principal, just asking for an interest payment was considered a crime against humanity.
If you have any search skills, see if you can find a Womans Day article from many years ago about one elderly woman who signed up at a card table shrine and took the Larouche ride to the poor house.
What were we yutes told back then? Woman's day was part of an international conspiracy by the oligarchs to brainwash and dumb down women. Lyn used to have a real thing about "Mrs Babbit" in his speeches to us.
That card table shrine is waiting for you and Lyn and Helga's table is waiting for a 15 course meal.
Helga's dogs laugh at the yutes, and they eat and travel better as well.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

lyndylalush (lyndylalush)
07-31-2005, 03:17 PM
Little Lyndy, 8, stole a candy bar from Mr. Schneider's shop.
Mr. Schneider at the corner confronted Little Lyndy, who had remnants of the sweet on his hands and homely face.
The precocious innocent replied, "You got your start in business from the First National Bank, so you're in cahoots with the bankers. You also obtained your store's property through the biggest realtor in town, so you are therefore a tool of the tools of Rochester's landed aristocracy. Besides, we're in a depression and you want to stunt the development of youth by denying them what would otherwise be theirs if not for you and others of your ilk. If you don't give me ten more candy bars, I'm going to tell my ma and pa you and all the other Rothschild interests in town are out to get me!"
Mr. Schneider quietly assented and led the boy back to his store, whereupon he locked the door behind them. He then proceeded to give Little Lyndy the biggest HIDING that was ever heard in the whole history of the Granite State.
And now you know ... the REST of the STORY.

 

kow (kow)
07-31-2005, 07:34 PM
So the economy isn't collapsing as LaRouche suggests?

 

lyndylalush (lyndylalush)
07-31-2005, 08:28 PM
LaRouche has been talking about impending global collapse since 1965. The Jehovah's Witnesses have predicted the end of the world four times since their startup circa 1900: the last prediction was for 1975. They've had the good sense for thirty years to stop predicting the End - which not only shows that the average LaRouche follower is far more gullible than the average JW, but that the JW leadership is saner than LaRouche - if such be possible ...
I know you mean well, but I strongly suggest you take your sincerity and desire to do the world good to some other organization which is not going to eat you up and spit you out as it did me.
Get the best education you can, and then look around at your many opportunities to better humanity.
Best of luck.
www.justiceforjeremiah.com (http://www.justiceforjeremiah.com)

 

kow (kow)
07-31-2005, 10:38 PM
So the economy isn't collapsing as LaRouche suggests?

 

anon127 (anon127)
08-01-2005, 12:47 AM
kow,
for larouche, sometimes the economy has already collapsed, sometimes it is collapsing, other times, it is about to collapse.
sometimes the collapse happened 30 years ago, sometimes its about to happen is the next few months, other times, it could happen any day now.
sometimes, the collapse was caused by flaws inherent in capitalism, flaws that only socialism could rectify, other times, the collapse was imposed by the british.
if u take the trouble to do some homework, you'll find that others have also suggested problems with the current economy.
and if u dig further, you'll also find the works of others 30 years ago, discussing problems with the economy.
therefore, the answer to your question ("so the economy isn't collapsing as LaRouche suggests?") is that...if u know LaRouche so well, then you should know by now that...LaRouche does not suggests...he "forecasts"..only looney economists "suggests".

 

lyndylalush (lyndylalush)
08-01-2005, 03:26 AM
Funny how the LaRouche website does not herald the efforts of people like Tony Blair and others to lift Africa out of poverty. I guess "only LaRouche" has "the solution." There's been a housing boom for some time now in the US: you might want to call it a bubble, but I don't recall any such "bubbles" during the Great Depression. Jesus said, the poor will always be with us, and that's true, and it's always worthwhile to try to alleviate poverty. But do you think selling periodicals on a street corner or in an airport makes you a part of the solution? Get real.
One thing I know is that if you are a LaRouche organizer, YOUR economy has already collapsed. Looking at the loose change in one's pocket as one's only assets in the entire world might help one conclude that an economic holocaust has already occurred, and just look at how well-dressed, well-educated, and well-provisioned just about everyone you meet is compared with you, while the millionaire LaRouche sits in opulence. He could afford to give you a decent if not adequate stipend: why doesn't he start with the poor in his own organization?
Some questions to ask yourself - if you have the capacity to be honest with yourself.
Best of luck.

 

xylm (xylm)
08-01-2005, 01:44 PM
Hey Kow, Steven, Tom, and all you Larouchies:
Check out this anti-Semitic jargon written by larouche on his own website! Here is the link to the .pdf that is posted on the Larouche site: http://wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7312.pdf its on page 32 bottom footnote.
"Judiasm, which developed as a by-product of the emergence of early Christianity, and was molded in its further evolution as an appendage of Christianity, is also in its general form a truncated reflection of the Christian type of ideology in general. It has also been transformed through specifically feudal, semi-feudal mercantile-capitalist, and capitalist forms. It is not necessary to give special treatment to Judaism here, since it never existed except in myth, but as a by-product of Christianity, and could not exist except as a special predicate of a Christian or Muslim culture, principally Christian. There is no autonomous "Jewish Culture", but only a special variety of (especially) Christian culture."
I'm very interested to hear somebody refute the anti-Semitisim in this quote and article.

 

lyndylalush (lyndylalush)
08-01-2005, 02:26 PM
For you kids out there, this astounding selection found by xylm constitutes a perfect object lesson to test your intellectual honesty.
In the first place, the claim is so laughably wrong that it is impossible to imagine any other statement which could possibly match it for sheer wrongheadedness. The lesson is this: people make mistakes, and many after some time has passed admit, if grudgingly, their past errors. The challenge is, can you find a single instance where LaRouche admits to ever being wrong, unless of course it is an instance of his ceaseless approximating to the Truth? But I mean, what process of investigation would lead to the above citation unless one wanted to nullify in one stroke the Jewish people, religion, and culture. And in a footnote! I don't think even Hitler went so far as to deny Jews their identity (he just wanted to exterminate them, identity and all.)
Do you yutes think it natural that someone, a human being, be considered right ALL OF THE TIME??? Or even MOST OF THE TIME??? I know you have all had enough history to recognize Lyn's above observation to be fairy dust. I therefore challenge one of you to ask him at the next cadre school about this specific passage and ask him directly - YES or NO - whether he was wrong when he said this. If he says he was wrong, then that, ladies and gentlemen, will be a first.
Shocking.

 

xylm (xylm)
08-01-2005, 04:02 PM
I thought I would also include more undisputable anti-Semitic rabble from Mr. Larouche off his own website: http://wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7312.pdf
"Judaism is ideological abstract ion of the secular life of Christianity's Jew, the Roman merchant-userer who had not yet evolved to the state of Papal enlightenment, a half-Christian, who had not developed a Christian conscience, etc. Judaism is the religion of a caste of subjects of Christianity, entirely molded by ingenious rabbis to fit into the ideological and secular life of Christianity. In short, a self-subsisting Judaism never existed and never could exist. As for "Jewish Culture" otherwise, it is merely the residue left to the Jewish home after everything saleable has been marketed to the Goyim." ---page 39, footnote# 76 bottom paragraph.
"The significance of the brutally-sadistic moral castration of the Jewish boy by the domineering "Jewish Mother" is the basis for one of the most horrifying models of male sexual impotence, which expresses itself obsessively in the "business Jew." He suffers a hideous sense of secret worthlessness which would be revealed without power over the fixed objects in its (fetishistic) commodity-form." ---page 39, footnote# 78
Remember, Larouche still theorizes the same way, but obviously not with such naked, open meaning. He now uses code words, if you will, that are in fact well known by fascist just like him so he can easily tailor his messages to a variety of opposing audience views without harshening any support in the process. For instance, "british agent", "whore of Babylon", "userer" to name a few are well known synonyms for "jew" by anti-Semitics and you will see these terms in all of his recent writings.

 

xylm (xylm)
08-01-2005, 04:50 PM
I challenge anybody with intellectual honesty to peruse through Larouche's old campaigners from his own website to see for yourself what we are all trying to convey in this message board. Here is the link to the Campaigners: http://wlym.com/pages/campaigners70-76.html
I was just reading the following 1974 campaigner http://wlym.com/PDF-68-76/CAM7411.pdf (page 14) where Larouche literally numbers all the horrendous things Rockefeller will do to mankind, I found these claims the best:
"6. (Rockefeller's restructuring program will) Reduce the world's population to between two and two-and-a-half billions through genocide by approximately 1990, at which point the depression period will begin to be ended through the introduction of controlled thermonuclear fusion technology."
"Economically, there is no difference in principle between Nelson A. Rockefeller and Adolf Hitler. The notable differences between them are only moral and political, on which counts Hitler is far less criminal than Rockefeller."

 

lyndylalush (lyndylalush)
08-01-2005, 06:15 PM
Right, xylm. Why do we have to say anything? Kids, just read the old crap and ask yourselves who the hell am I throwing my life away for anyway? Too bad the -ites exclude the "Zionism is Not Judaism" _Campaigner_ from that website because it was the last gasp (more or less) of LHL's overt antisemitism. Good work, x.
www.justiceforjeremiah.com (http://www.justiceforjeremiah.com)

 

kow (kow)
08-02-2005, 08:01 AM
I don't think Jesus said anything about airports

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
08-02-2005, 05:01 PM
"Economically, there is no difference in principle between Nelson A. Rockefeller and Adolf Hitler. The notable differences between them are only moral and political, on which counts Hitler is far less criminal than Rockefeller."
XYLM, this is dejavu all over again. You see each new wave of yutes needs an enemy that is so evil, so viscious, so horrible, that the entire world population's existance depends on this one person being defeated. Of course, the only person who can defeat the enemy of humanity is Larouche.
Back in 1974 Lyn had a hard on for the Rockefellers. Every single document and every single briefing was based on the Rockefellers running the globe. It seemed fair enough to us yutes as Nelson, who was a long term governor of NY State became the VP under Gerald Ford.
Every evil in the world was then traced to the Rockefellers. We adopted more John Birch type stuff because when Carter ran, we were meeting with these types and started to use their materials in our pubs.
A brief called "Carter and the Party of International Terrorism" or "PIT" brief, was scooped up by these people in bulk. We had a better product and thus began our marriage to the far kooky right of the poltical spectrum.
Carter became known to the members as a man "Whose policies are a 100 times worse than Hitler". Carter was great fundraiser for us as we sold mucho bumper stickers and posters during this time of gas lines and US hostages. We spent most of our time being Democrats and waging war on Jimmy Carter in 1976 and 1980.
Mondale became our next enemy of the human race as he was now a full agent of Moscow and the KGB. From being a revolutionary force of Marxism on campuses who supported a Larouche plan called "The convertible ruble" , we were now wearing suits at airports being tagged as conservatives. Lyn started to wear cowboy hats on interviews. We spent most of out time as Democrats in 1984 waging war against Mondale.
For being Democrats, we sure screwed every Democratic party candidate. We raised the bar for this and truly became usefull fools for people by screwing Michael Dukakis. Read this to see one dirty trick (among a few) that we did by being Democrats and waging war against Michael Dukakis.
This is from the dennisking.org blog
We certainly did a great job in giving Bush 1 the election in 1998.

A Log Cabin LaRouchian?
JULY 24, 2005
Ex-members of the neo-fascist Lyndon LaRouche cult are so disgusted by its complicity in the death of Jeremiah Duggan (a Jewish youth from the U.K. who was struck and killed by a car on an autobahn in Wiesbaden, Germany, in March 2003 while fleeing in apparent terror from a LaRouche brainwashing program) that they are beginning to break their silence and come forward with fresh information about the cult's history and practices. Much of this material can be found at the website http://justiceforjeremiah.com. Some is also being sent to this blog site.
An email we received last week from a former longtime LaRouche follower whose information has proven reliable in the past, gives some new details regarding a murky sexual incident surrounding the LaRouche organization's smear campaign against Michael Dukakis during the 1988 Presidential race. Political news junkies from that era will recall how LaRouche's weekly newsmagazine, Executive Intelligence Review (EIR), concocted a story that the Democratic candidate was a former mental patient. The allegation was picked up by the Republicans at a point when their candidate, Vice-President George H. W. Bush, was behind in the polls--and President Reagan proved willing to play along with the charade. Asked about the mental patient charge by EIR reporter * ** at a White House press conference two weeks before the Republican convention, Reagan quipped, "Look I'm not going to pick on an invalid."
Our informant writes: "One of the briefs I am sending you is the EIR special report on the mental history of Michael Dukakis. I also have the EIR issue with a lot of Dukakis material we used to screw him royally. There is also an issue where the headline blares that an EIR reporter who exposed Dukakis was attacked [near the Republican Party's convention at the New Orleans Superdome] as part of an operation against LaRouche. The truth, as I found out, was different.
"We were told that EIR Reporter X was attacked by a professional team of thugs who attacked him for exposing Dukakis. Within the same week, I was told by a very close friend who was very close to security [LaRouche's armed and superfanatical security staff] that what happened in New Orleans was quite different. It seems that EIR Reporter X meandered off by himself and was rolled by some robbers after finding a hooker. What my friend told me a week later was that it is even more embarrassing as he was seeing a male for a sexual liaison. EIR Reporter X was rumored to be Gay, but since we were crazy about gays and AIDS was in the news, who the hell would admit that? My friend said that Lyn and security decided the best thing to do was to blame it on the same plot that is targeting Lyn.
"I do not know if this was known at first, or if EIR Reporter X admitted it later, or what else was going on. But it is a good example of [the LaRouche cult's] type of chicanery."
One wonders how the purported gay EIR staffer must have felt in 1986 when LaRouche launched his campaign to "spread Panic, not AIDS" by sponsoring a ballot proposition in California aimed at quarantining AIDS victims. (The LaRouchians collected over 700,000 signatures for this sinister proposal, which almost certainly was inspired by Hitler's call in Mein Kampf to quarantine victims of syphilis. It was defeated at the polls, but over two million Californians voted for it.) One also wonders what went through the EIR staffer's mind in 1987 when LaRouche issued his infamous call for skinhead violence against gays (including Turner Diaries-style lynchings) to save Western civilization from a New Dark Age.
But the purportedly gay LaRouchian would not have been the only political schizophrenic in the cult. Jewish members had for years tolerated (and some had even taken the lead in promoting) LaRouche's claims that "only" 1.5 million Jews were killed in World War Two (and none of them in gas chambers), that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a "factual" document, that wealthy Jews run the international narcotics traffic, that Nazi war criminals such as Kurt Waldheim are really patriotic anti-communists, and that Simon Wiesenthal and other Nazi hunters are subhuman beasts and KGB agents.
The LaRouchian recruitment and indoctrination regimen twists the individual's thinking inside out so that Jews become defined as Nazis, and Nazis become defined as anti-fascists (as in George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four, in which war is peace and freedom is slavery). This "newspeak" partially explains how young people--and people not so young--end up joining LaRouche and turning against their own families, religion, etc., but it should not be regarded as an excuse for what is ultimately a personal decision to embrace the dark side. A moral person can always say "no" to the intellectual seduction of someone like LaRouche (as even some Germans said "no" to Hitler--and he, unlike LaRouche, had a Gestapo with the authority of the state behind it).
Jeremiah Duggan was a moral person and strongly resisted the LaRouchian indoctrination, as is known from eyewitnesses to the events he attended in and near Wiesbaden, the notes he took at various sessions, and his communciations with his mother and his girl friend in the hours before his death (he called both of them and said he was getting the hell out of there).
I conclude with a moral (if not "logical") syllogism which I suspect will not be popular with those shrinks and exit counselors who regard ex-members (even ex-leading members) of political cults as pure and simple "victims" who should be encouraged to get on with their lives by going back to graduate school and forgetting about the people they victimized during their years in the cult.
1. Jeremiah Duggan told the LaRouchians to shove it.
2. Jeremiah Duggan ended up dead.
3. All those individuals who, unlike Jeremiah Duggan, failed to resist LaRouche's blandishments and even once they left the cult (after years or even decades of participation in criminal activity and hate-mongering) remained silent, should now come forward and atone for their actions by helping the Duggan family win justice and closure.
Hey, and maybe EIR Reporter X, if he's no longer in the cult, should finally say "I'm sorry" to Michael Dukakis and even issue a public apology to the gay community for collaborating in LaRouche's 30-year campaign of hate against gays and lesbians.
Monday, July 25, 2005 in LaRouche | Permalink | Comments (0)
The moral of the story is that this is like an Orwellian written script when you are in the Larouche org. You MUST have an enemy to hate, You MUST have a fearless leader to follow, you MUST submit to the idea thay ONLY through Lyn can the world be saved form an impending doom.
Steve, Kow, Tom and everybody else, see the Mars Society web page and tell me what you think. In a few days, we can chat.
The following popped up in an email to me one day. The first part of this was written by someone who I think has posted here before.
The response is from Steve. 30 years ago the cry we had was "Die for Rockefeller or take power with the Labor Party". That implied that we had individual choices and freedoms. Thus, it became "Die for Rockefeller or take power with Larouche". Instead of Xbox we would have attacked a Pong game. The books we told you to pick up would have been Marx, Fuerbach, Hegel and German critical philosophy. That got you yutes from good schools, but did not get cash, except for trust funds which we raided.
10 years later, we buried Marx and became "American System" clean cut young people going to VFW halls supporting Reagan's SDI program.
The dildo part Steve mentions I have no clue about. You have to get the cash, or get the yutes. Both end up for Lyn. What is funny now is that since WW2 Nazi history is getting farther away from yutes in school, they have not figured out how Lyn in his final years in the bunker created "Larouche Youth", which sounds very similar to a famous Nazi's youth org. who did not question, but obeyed orders.
A card table shrine awaits you.
Steve, since you bring up members who had nervous breakdowns, ask your friends about how we sent members who "freaked out" to the printing office on W 23rd. Ask how a former NC named John Ascher ended up a homeless guy and howls in front of the Baltimore office. Many former members in NYC have run into him and leave crying over how we chewed people up and let them rot.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com


  • « Drug War HumorCamel Toe The Movie »Is Lyndon Larouche Brainwashing Students?
    "Don't let her leave!"
    The group leader had thoroughly worked her over,
    hammering her with guilt about her previous actions, accusing her of being delusional, telling her to confess, until she was no longer recognizable as a woman, but only as a blubbering mess of tearful convulsions. The tearful woman got up to flee the room.
    "Don't let her leave! Keep her in here!"
    Someone got up and physically blocked her from leaving the room.
    > "SIT DOWN. Now M—–," the leader said in a calm voice, "You know you've got to stop doing this…" She went on calmly for some time, and then everyone else left the room. I sat across the room and watched her sob hysterically with her face in her hands, and not for the first time wondered what the LaRouche Organization was all about.
    Throughout the summer I witnessed similar scenes over and over again in different forms; in personal meetings with the leadership, in small groups meetings, Sunday "Field Meetings", at "retreats", and one-on-one conversations. There was a clear pattern being used in each case; the sowing of guilt(real or imagined), fear, confusion, and the use of "sore spots" (personal shames or shortcomings) to brow-beat someone into an extremely worked up emotional state. Once the person has been whipped up he is then questioned until he contradicts himself on some minute point?this contradiction is then used as a stick to beat him with until there is a complete emotional breakdown, then they admit their faults (confess), after which the leadership then redefines the "mission" for them. I recognized it as manipulation. I recently took interest in a book by William Sargant,? The Battle for the Mind?, and he had another name for it: Brainwashing.
    In the section on political indoctrination there is a description of how Communist China brainwashed workers into being a "conduit from the party to the people", and oddly enough I found the program used fits almost precisely what I've undertaken in the LaRouche organization. It begins for many with indoctrination ?retreats?, where students go out to cabins for a ?weekend of intellectual discussion?, where new recruits are worked on from the minute they walk in to join the organization. For a weekend they are bombarded with classes which challenge their identity, culture, past training, and are given an apocalyptic view of the near future. Very frequently ?freak-outs? occur; crying, violent outbursts, or complete inhibition?which is exactly the necessary response, for the weakened mind state makes an individual ripe to be implanted with ideas. Those who then begin working with Larouche will immediately see very little sleep, physical exhaustion (Larouchies work 7 days, 90-100 hours a week), a large number of classes (in the beginning indoctrination), strong encouragement to break ties with family and friends, mental fatigue, fellow organizers reporting to the leadership any deviations in thought, a groupthink atmosphere, vicious attacks from the leadership, group confessions, and "struggle meetings". They will receive around $80 per week, and be housed somewhere by the organization. The organization makes sure organizers have little or no free time, to make sure there is not a pause to examine their enslaved condition. If they ever do as one defector from California stated,?By the time I realized what had happened, I had dropped out of school, had no money, the organization owned my lease, and I had told all my family and friends they were fascists.? I've now done a great deal of study into the physiology of brainwashing and the Communist's tactics, and each report I read confirms my suspicions, and so many confusing incidents over the summer have been replayed in books that are almost fifty years old!
    LaRouche began his political career as a member of the CPUSA (Communist Party USA), and recruited many of his first followers from the Maoist PLP. As recently as 1976, during a series of lectures called, "What Every Communist Knows" LaRouche described his movement as part of the "world's Marxist Labor movement" working to "bring into being a new Communist International". After reading ?Mein Kampf? by Adolph Hitler, I saw so many striking similarities in LaRouche ideology I have little doubt that he is the Fascist that Dennis King claimed in his book, ?Lyndon LaRouche The New American Fascism?. LaRouche purports to be the only true progenitor of the ?American Intellectual Tradition?, and in between thinly veiled anti-Semitic rhetoric, and wild conspiracy theories, claims to be the new Franklin Roosevelt. For thirty years LaRouche has been a parasitical entity, soliciting millions of dollars per year, marching young wives of members to abortion clinics, and doing irreparable psychological damage to hundreds of his organizers. One former organizer used to show up and stand in front of the office talking to himself. The ones who stay are completely unable to think for themselves, and are so paranoid anyone they meet who opposes LaRouche is an ?agent? or a fascist. Anyone who has been there for more than a few years generally feels completely unable to live in the ?outside world?, and the organization has instilled a sense of superiority in them that living among the ?population? would be wasting their life anyway. They have committed themselves to making LaRouche President, never mind the Supreme Court ruling that stated he was disqualified from candidacy because he is a convicted felon (fraud, tax evasion), and candidates must be registered to vote.
    Using Communist brainwashing, fascist ideology, and American propaganda, LaRouche has built a multi-million dollar network, and I believe today poses one of the greatest threats to the American way of life, not to mention the number of bright, young students the organization has pulled out of college to sell newspapers in the street, feeding their egos with the thought that they are ?saving civilization?.
    This entry was posted on Wednesday, December 11th, 2002 at 2:00 am and is filed under Science/Tech. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
    One Response to "Is Lyndon Larouche Brainwashing Students?"
    Steven George Rendon Says:
    June 4th, 2005 at 3:13 pm
    To the young and confused person who wrote the former piece:
    I'm not at all positive of where so-called "defectors" come from; the phenomena could be explained in a number of ways.
    For example, I'm sure many had nervous breakdowns in the wake of Lyn's railroad-political-prosecution/persecution during the late 1980s. Some knew what they were doing was wrong and the others simply had undergone such a traumatic confrontation that they themselves actually became "brainwashed" into rejecting the reality of the LaRouche Movement.
    What is quite beyond me, however, is trying to explain why we see a few of you young people, who obviously have some experience in the Youth Movement, and yet you have completely "tripped yourselves out" when it comes to the good people at the LaRouche organizations.
    These so-called "defectors" I have sympathy for. I, myself, have been in the organization for many months at a time. In fact, even though I am currently enrolled at Yale University, I attribute the core and entire apple of my knowledge to my virtual mentor Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr. This is not to say that I worship Lyn as some idol or "tower of Babylon" because, in fact, he catalyzed my discoveries in Classical Humanistic studies, which destroys the false-Babylons of which we see so many today. He taught me, Get out of your bubble! Put down your X-Box! Put down your dildo, for just a moment! Throw a brick through your television screen! Pick up Plato, da Vinci, the founding fathers, Lincoln, Confucious, Leibniz, Swift, FDR, Kennedy, the Bible, the Quran, check out literature! Why? Because that's human! An X-Box is not. Dick Cheney is borderline!
    The crucial point to discover is that the trauma resulting from being confronted by someone or a group of people who understand the crucial importance of shucking off the obvious vices of today's culture, produces a shock trauma especially when you youself are reconfronted by those vices and popular opinion reassuring you that that's the way to go: pick up the pacifier and suck.
    I hope you can again regain your sanity, and I hope you use the Socratic Method to get you there.
    Steven.Rendon@yale.edu
    (Message edited by Xlcr4life on August 02, 2005)
 

taavis_doc (taavis_doc)
08-02-2005, 07:19 PM
I would like to wager a LYM organizer's entire weekly stipend on the following: when the great one finally exhales his last boozy breath--probably any day now--the demise of the world's most important philosopher and economist won't even make the evening news.
BTW, Mr. Rendon--what would Lyn make of you and the other SOBs at Yale singing compositions from the Beatles and the Greatful Dead? Surely such Boomer poison would leach all of the Leibniz from your golden soul, no?

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
08-04-2005, 08:19 PM
Friends, Americans, countrymen. The animosity is very unnecessary, I can assure you.
Just an update on my search for documents on Mr. LaRouche's trials in Alexandria and Boston: The source that I have found and am reviewing with the most excerpts from the trials and also the appeal is from a fact-finding book written by Mr. LaRouche's advocates from Commission to Investigate Human Rights Violations, entitled "Railroad! U.S.A. v. Lyndon LaRouche, et al".
If anyone else has found a source on the trial specifically, with transcript material, it would be very helpful.
Respectfully,
Steven
P.S. The Railroad! book also investigates Mr. Curtis' direct role in providing key testimony for the government's prosecution. It will be interesting to hear Mr. Curtis a.k.a. Xlcr4life opine on the source, as I am more than confident that he is familiar with it.

 

taavis_doc (taavis_doc)
08-05-2005, 02:35 PM
Yes, an odd affectation on the part of many LYM kids: they seem to have adopted some approximation of 18th/19th century period speech and writing, e.g. "Let us speak, "should very soon work through some of Leibniz," "If I may say so myself," "yes, very good," etc. I'm surprised that the card table folks haven't taken to wearing powdered wigs and rouge (Beltran, are you listening?). At least then they could just admit that it's all a well-rehearsed performance, and one that only diminishes their alleged overarching goals. That is, in order to effect change an organization probably needs to be taken seriously, no?
BTW- There is no crucial "confrontation" at the card tables--as Steven claims--only the occassional top-down connection between a master, a shill, and a mark. Guess which one you are, Steven?
Nothing rankles the yutes like passers-by noting that Larouche is, has always been, and will continue to be, a fascist. This is the only constant in his absurd rantings. The ones pointing this out tend to be--like myself--old enough to have followed Larouche's career for decades, not the year or two that the kids think they understand.
I have been reading this thread for some time; it's been enlightening. My thanks to the movement vets who have confirmed--and expanded--my suspicions about this group. The most tragic thing about this organization is the way they SQUANDER so much youthful passion. It's heartening to think that these good intentions might eventually be redirected and might actually then contribute to the pursuit of the "true" and the "good" that supposedly motivates the believers.
Some thoughts on fascism, genuine scholarship, and that lovable nut LL:
[1] Larouche describes all art after about 1800 as "non-cognitive," "schizophrenic," and, gasp, "modern," etc, etc. How does this differ from Goebbels' "entarte kunst" of the 1930s? The argument and underlying assumptions are identical (as is the anti-semitism). With regard to the org's contempt for "the counterculture": is it really so inconceivable that such social formations might actually have engendered a sense of community among like-minded people who went on to do good works in communities where they could actually make a difference? Was the allegedly monolithic counterculture really a complete failure? Larouche never met a totalizing either/or argument that he didn't like. Ditto for the little Lyns scattered about. BTW- despite this doctrinaire antipathy to counterculture--inevitably trivialized and dismissed as an effect of "popular opinion"--it's hard not to notice that the kiddies running the card tables are themselves, almost without exception, dressed in standard, parodically countercultural garb, e.g. army surplus, ponytails, gothically dyed hair, tattoos, scuffed boots, etc. Hilarious.
[2] Larouche locates some lost ideal in notions of classical symmetry, rationality, impulse control, regimentation, etc. Hitler, Mussollini, David Duke, et al. also claim to be recovering some perfect moment that only they can reveal and render knowable to their followers. Also, as personality types, nobody has more in common with Lyn than his supposed antagonist Dick Cheney. They are both paranoid, defensive, insulting, insufferably arrogant, and dismissive toward those who would dare disagree with them. When Larouche rambles about pushing industrial development and resource extraction to the Nth degree--environment be damned--he sounds exactly like the "neo-conservatives" he claims to oppose. Why can't the yutes see that Larouche is just a standard right-wing lunatic (it's no coincidence that his fellow lunatics cite his "research" in their own sites/publications) trying to dress up his rhetoric in revolutionary, traditionally leftist, modalities? The Klan uses confrontational gatherings, poignant slogans, and bullhorns, too--these trappings do not, however, make them a progressive organization.
[3] If Larouche is such an important thinker, and if he has--as Mr. Curtis and other veterans point out--been repeating himself endlessly since the late 60s, why haven't his ideas found a greater audience? Where are the OTHER public intellectuals who might rally to such excellent ideas? Does it make sense that NONE of his ideas about economics, pedagogy, psychology, etc. have withstood any kind of peer review? Why do all of the recognized experts in these fields consider him to be a lunatic and a pariah? Why do devout Larouchians fall into only two camps: clueless/gullible children, and the long-standing insiders? (the latter being in on the scam, so their continued participation is understandable--after all, without the revenues from LYM beggary they'd be homeless).
[4] Larouche speaks of impending crisis; of course, only he can save the day. If only Larouche could have his Reichstag fire. BTW, isn't a "crisis," by definition, acute? The impending global economic collapse has been on the way for what, about 30 years? Lalush's JW analogy is instructive.
Steven:
--with regard to your legal research: do bear in mind that Larouche has been on the losing end of more litigation than just the credit card/tax fraud chicanery. You might consider the totality of his legal entanglements and ask yourself if ALL of these decisions, spread out over a significant timespan and tried in a variety of settings--could possibly be the result of a single conspiracy (?).
You're right about one thing Steven--you lack the historical context to clearly understand the M.O. of your organization--an organization that has only your exploitation, and that of others, in mind. And why bother with "uncovering" the "railroading" of St. Larouche? You've already made up your mind about his innocence and wrongful persecution.
Finally, as you should know from your careful reading of early 70s Campaigners and from the EIRs that ruminate on the ruinous legacy of the "drugsexrock counterculture" that the Grateful Dead are a cultish, ritualistic Satanic coven who aim to render their listeners as zombified automotons, and furthermore, that the Beatles were carefully crafted and deployed according to "British psychological warfare specifications." Now, again, given these facts, and your devotion to pure cognition and beauty and teachable genius--how can you and the other SOBs at Yale continue to offer your a cappella renditions of their dastardly songs?
What would the card table cadres make of this? Does the great one know about your transgressions?
I await a most instructive discourse upon your meditations, Steven. Let us speak . . .
P.S. what happened to Covici? He was just getting warmed up. Did somebody finally yank on his leash from high above?
P.S.S I will humbly request that Steven, "Tom," Kow and other Larouche apologists/propagandists please refrain from any references to the following in their responses: infantilism, masturbation, impotence, and "mommy issues," as these rote attacks are both tiresome and transparently evasive.

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
08-05-2005, 07:09 PM
"P.S. what happened to Covici? He was just getting warmed up. Did somebody finally yank on his leash from high above? "
For those not privy to LC history, let me explain a little. John Covici was the guy you would hear laugh hysterically at Lyns jokes from the front of the room during our national conferences. He would audio tape and duplicate Lyns speeches for sale. He was a bright fellow who though visually impaired, was working on Wall Street in some computer capacity.
Since he had a job and credit, many people lusted after his plastic. In the early days of the web, he would post Larouche press releases on many bulletin boards. You would later see comments from people who were angry at him for interrupting BB's with Larouche lunacy and for doing something with their email lists.
One of the best Covici posts was a release by Warren Hammerman about how Lyn was in yet another assasination plot by the oligarchs to stop him in jail from saving the world.
I had to hold back from laughing and crying at the same time. Laughing because any person over 50 who has a colonscopy is given laxatives to clean out their colon prior to a sigmoid scope and polyp removal. Laughing because most people who work only take the day off for the exam as it is a routine part of health care for older people and they go back to work the next day. Laughing because everyone is given a mild anesthetic so they can be groggy/asleep during the procedure.
Lyn was very big on red meat consumption and often had elaborate banquets in the Leesburg mansion with several pounds of prime beef cooked a night, for he and Helga, not the card table shriners. The dogs got the scraps, the help got the door. What an operation we had. You get people to be servants by telling them that they are now security specialists!
The musicians we had never figured out that their main job was to entertain us and recreate a Euro salon for lyn as he contemplates taking over the world. Damn, we should have had powdered wigs when we threw these nightly bashes.
Helga joined the festivities a little later after feeding her critters by the cement pond we paid for on rented property.
Of course, one needs gallons of fine wine to go with the meat. Which explains why we needed an extra Pontiac Bonnevile for the hooch runs. All that driving around Leesburg gave one of Lyn's big burly NEC wannabe security guy the experience he needed to drive medicare patients around Leesburg County to their medical appointments when the money machine went dry.
If you were considered a "somebody" in the org, you got the invite to the big house. The banquets were also a time to wine and dine our donors who were putting up big bucks and to impress some low level press people from AM radio stations. Poor Barry Farber must have been paid diddly squat by WOR in NYC to be impressed by this Potemkin village pomp and circumstance. The current radio guy Stockwell got the same treatment. I am not sure if Rense made it to the big house as he seems too busy chasing UFO's in the sky and Jews on the ground.
I was crying because I know that a bunch of yutes and dead enders would take this lunacy as being serious. In Warren Hammerman's case, I am wondering why he and his wife left the org a few years later. Warren was one of the founders of the LC and came from the anti war movement. Warren masterd Larouchian economics as he ditched his utility and rent bills in the move to Leesburg. I feel scared mentioning this as I heard about how he used "arm twisting" on his spouse many, many years ago.
If you yutes ever wish to prove a straight line is straight and not a curve, measure the part in Warren's hair. Now that was a straight line on a curved surface.
Lyn was treated quite nicely in jail and got better health care than some of the other dead enders who died of things like prostrate cancer, booze induced liver disease and self inflicted gun shot wounds. Lyn has unlimitied time on the phone in jail, shared a room with Jim Bakker and bamboozled him. Lyn also had William Wertz as his prison bitch. Early in the prison sentence. Lyn and Will entered the same cell and Lyn took over the desk and the desirable bunk and relegated Will to being his man Friday.
Covici is now at the age where he may have to have a colonoscopy. I wonder if he will release a press statement over his conspiracy of mistreatment to silence his web offerings to Lyn.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com
So what does high red meat and booze consumption lead to?
More assasination attempts. This is a release that was spread in numerous BB's in 1989.
And now you know why the yutes start each day singing old Negro Spirituals about Slave days before they march to the card table shrines.
I will give Steve credit for staying in Yale though. Take Johnny Cochran's legal advice Steve:
"When in doubt, you must stay out"
We are still waitng for the yutes views of the Mars Society.

  • **
    THE WORLD SHALL HOLD GEORGE BUSH PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE
    Sept. 16, 1989
    The following chronology of events describes the gross
    mistreatment of political prisoner Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.
    which occurred during the five days between Sept. 11 and Sept.
    15.
    Monday, Sept. 11 at 1300 hours, LaRouche was called to
    the clinic at the Rochester Federal Medical Facility and told
    that later that week he would have a surgical procedure for
    the removal of two intestinal polyps. He was instructed to
    report back the following day at 1100 hours. He was also told
    that he would have a no-residue diet on Tuesday and then would
    be on a liquid diet until the procedure.
    Tuesday, Sept. 12. After working a full work-shift from
    0400 hours to 1200 hours, LaRouche began receiving strong
    laxative medication in preparation for the procedure at
    approximately 1600 hours. On Tuesday he only ingested egg
    whites, coffee, and water. Between 2200 hours and 0200 hours
    into Wednesday morning he experienced violent bowel movements
    caused by the medication.
    Wednesday, Sept. 13. At 0200 hours LaRouche finally fell
    asleep. At 0320 hours--less than an hour and a half later--he
    was awakened to report to work. LaRouche was forced to work
    on Wednesday for the entire work-shift from approximately
    0400 to 1200 hours. During the entire day on Wednesday LaRouche
    only ingested coffee and water. He was only able to sleep
    sporadically on Wednesday evening.
    Thursday, Sept. 14. At 0320 LaRouche was awakened for his
    normal work-shift, to which he reported at 0400 hours. After
    working an entire shift, at approximately 1230 hours LaRouche was
    called to the clinic at the Federal Medical Facility, where he
    was informed that he would be brought to the Mayo Clinic for a
    ``test procedure. Officials at the prison had administratively
    classified it as a ``test procedure
    rather than a ``surgical
    procedure. LaRouche was taken in irons into the Mayo Clinic by
    two guards, and brought to the area where the procedure would
    occur in a wheelchair while in irons. After being interviewed by
    the physician responsible for the procedure, he was given a
    painkiller intravenously. Because of his accumulated exhaustion
    he fell asleep immediately, and slept through the entire
    procedure. The surgical procedure lasted approximately one hour,
    during which time a polyp was removed from his lower intestine.
    After being in the recovery room for three-quarters of an hour,
    LaRouche was brought back to the prison where he arrived at
    approximately 1530 hours. On Thursday all LaRouche had ingested
    was coffee, apple juice, and a bowl of jello. On Thursday evening
    he slept from sheer exhaustion.
    Friday, Sept. 15. At 0320 LaRouche was awakened to go
    to work as normal. At 0500 hours, after just beginning work,
    LaRouche had to sit down because he was exhausted. At 0700
    hours he was asked to help the other prisoners in a group
    work assignment. LaRouche at that time reported to sick bay,
    unable to work. He requested to see a doctor. Shortly after
    0900 hours, when his doctor had still not come, LaRouche was
    called out to see a paralegal visiting him on legal matters.
    - Comments -
    The mistreatment of Lyndon LaRouche, in the context of
    previous assignments to heavy labor, reflects an intent of
    someone in the prison system to kill him in the obvious way.
    If political prisoner Lyndon LaRouche is forced to die
    in the prison system, the world and history will read this
    as President George Bush's personal intent. Whether that is
    true or not, the world will see it so, and fairly. If Lyndon
    LaRouche dies in prison, only Bush could be blamed, and fairly
    so.
    The work assignment of LaRouche requires an estimated
    intake of 3,000 calories per day in the estimation of LaRouche
    himself--an expert in industrial engineering practice with
    over 20 years' experience.
    The surgical procedure which LaRouche underwent is
    traumatic. In the evaluation of his personal physician:
    ``Under this condition in West Germany, you are advised
    by your physician that you have to rest for the time the laxative
    is affecting you, usually two days before the procedure, and
    at least one day after the treatment. To my great astonishment,
    I learned that Mr. LaRouche had to work during a treatment
    with a supposedly strong laxative, and was called for duty
    less than 12 hours after his treatment. I feel obliged to
    raise my utmost concern about this procedure, and I want to
    assure you that this is not lege artis medical treatment you
    apply to an elderly patient in Germany.

    Just as Lyndon LaRouche was targeted, railroaded, and
    imprisoned for his politics, so too he is now being mistreated
    in prison for the same reason. George Bush, based on his personal
    knowledge and complicity, in events central to LaRouche's
    imprisonment, shall be held individually accountable for
    LaRouche's fate.
    Further precise bulletins on political prisoner Lyndon
    LaRouche's situation shall be released as required.
    --Warren J. Hamerman
    Rochester, Minnesota
    September 16, 1989
    Please contact the President.
    PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH
    THE WHITE HOUSE
    1600 PENNSYLVANIA AVE, N.W.
    WASHINGTON D.C. 20500
    COMMENT LINE IS 202-456-7639 (Does not function on week-ends)
    WHITE HOUSE SWITCH BOARD IS 202-456-1414
    FAX IS 202-456-2461
    (Message edited by Xlcr4life on August 06, 2005)
    (Message edited by Xlcr4life on August 06, 2005)
 

xylm (xylm)
08-09-2005, 01:13 PM
Has anybody here compiled a comparison of Larouche and Hitler's Mein Kampf? If so, please outline and post...
Thanks

 

ttt (ttt)
08-09-2005, 02:27 PM
To former members, if they would like to help.
I attempted to contact a former member for support. If anybody would like to help, please e-mail me to temp_mail_place@yahoo.com

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
08-13-2005, 09:44 AM
"Has anybody here compiled a comparison of Larouche and Hitler's Mein Kampf? If so, please outline and post...
Thanks xylm"
XLYM, here are some things for you and others to read. The last entry shows how this question was raised by a former Security/Intell member named Bob Cohen about Larouche and Mein Kampf. You can see how Lyn operates when you read about the former security chief Paul Goldstein and what he went through. Goldstein, seems to have left a few years ago and is in business for himself.
One of the perversities of the org was seeing Jews spread anti semitic lunacy to other people around the globe. The org in the beginning had many Jews from top schools in leadership positions. Being a non Jew, many things which would immediately raise red flags as being loony were not always picked up. It was not until I left the org and read many Jewish papers and articles on anti semitism that I was horrified at what I was an accomplice to. I do not know about other ex members, but there was an effect where if you did not see Jews in the org making a big stink about this stuff, then you yourself did not think much about it.
What many of us did not know at the time was that a big stink was being raised by this and many Jewish members were resigning and leaving letters warning us of the particular strain of anti semitic nonsense that Larouche was infected with and spreading as a carrier throughout the globe.
When members resigned, unless you personally knew the person and spoke to him or her, than the story you were given was that it was becasue of the ADL or some "mother" weakness. In our insular world, it was inpossible for people to quite since we were so damn smart and busy saving the world.
What I did notice as a non Jew in the org was the repeated snipes Lyn would make at Jews in the org at conferences and internal memos. In retrospect, Jews were broken down like everyone else as that identity was stripped away and replaced with your Larouche indentity. The few remaining Jews I refer to as "Trojan Jews" whose main job is to be the foils in the fundraising calls when questions of this nature are asked.
There was nothing more pathetic than hearing a Trojan Jew answer a question from some contact who read Lyn's rantings about the Holocaust, or our other Pro Nazi rooting by telling the person.
"Hey, I am a Jew, if Lyn and the org (whatever it was we called as FEF, NPCP, NADC etc), then I would not be calling you.
Well that was true to the extent that many Jews in the org who would have been making that call did leave months earlier and a stunt Jew was brought in to take their place.
For Steve's sake he should look up Lyn's lawsuit against the ADL where a NY Judge did rule that it was acceptable to call Larouche a "small time Hitler" or something to that degree.
There are several things I can mention that in retrospect should have propelled me out the door.
-The inclusion of the Protocals of the Elders of Zion in an early edition of Dope Inc. Lyn I believe described a "Kernal of truth" about this. This was when we were doing a lot of work with KKK, liberty Lobby and other similar groups. That, by the way, was not well known by many in the org.
-The intial NS centerfolds about the Holocaust which caused many of us to look at each other and wonder why this was being brought up.
-The topsy turvy world where Jews are Nazis and Israel is constantly called a Nazi state.
-The rewriting of German History when Helga came aboard where Nazi Germany did not seem to have any roots of anti semitism, but, it was the British and Zionists who created Hitler and Nazi Germany.
-The white washing of Nazi rocket scientists bia the FEF and EIR/NS where by many of the war crimes and atrocities done by Nazi scientists were conviently overlooked.
-Our defense of Kurt Waldheim Jr. and every two bit accused Nazi prison guard that was on trial.
-The horrendous telling of anti Jew jokes by members who were told that "it came from the boss to toughen us up and toughen up the Jew members from the ADL".
-The Zionism is not Judaism Campaigner.
All I can say is that I was a damn fool for not leaving earlier (physically, I already left the org mentally).
I am pretty confident that many current LYM will have the same thoughts when a few years after they left, they will look back at shock at horror about how they thought that went along with the idea that the Jews were behind 9/11 and how the use of British/Zionist was a perversion.
There will also be some utter shock when many of the cult's friends in Europe are shown to current members and you see whom the group sleeps with.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com
LAROUCHE'S "NEO-PLATONISM": RECYCLED NAZI OCCULTISM
Unpublished report (circa 1981) by a former member of LaRouche's intelligence staff
Although the "tactical" shifts of the LaRouche cult may require it to assume a wide variety of chameleon-like forms with which, and through which, to organize specific rightwing layers, inside the cult itself, within the "cadres" of the NCLC, European Labor Committees, and other "core groups," a systematic and relatively unified set of doctrines has been developed, an "occult inner knowledge" which is defined as the "method" which guides LaRouche, since he himself is the alleged author of it. These "secrets known only to the inner elites," as LaRouche himself defined it in a major statement in the NCLC theoretical magazine The Campaigner, is actually not even the product of LaRouche's own perverse thinking, although it coheres with most of his actual world view even in his supposed "socialist" phase. This occultism, which LaRouche calls "Neo-Platonism" and "Humanism," is familiar to anyone, whether bourgeois scholar or militant anti-fascist investigator, who has examined the early fascist and Nazi movements. Although there are a few new "twists" that LaRouche has himself added, as an attempted currying-up to specifically American chauvinist tastes, this set of doctrines is essentially identical to the occultism of the Nazis, both in its early "radical" and fragmented stages as well as in the later, more consolidated expressions such as suited the Nazis when in power.
LaRouche's "Neo-Platonism," as he himself has admitted on many occasions both in writing and in speeches, is an intentional political code through which the Labor Party, Fusion Energy Foundation, or LaRouche's own "Presidential campaigns" can make "signals" to the whole range of rightist, fascist, and neo-Nazi groupings whose leaders, if not members, are familiar with the terms and concepts involved. This paper shall make it clear that the use of Oswald Spengler's fascist occultism, for example, a primary inspiration for Nazis and neo-Nazis alike, is also a major influence upon such rightist formations as the John Birch Society, as well as LaRouche and his cult. Thus, when LaRouche begins to make extensive remarks about Atlantis, for example, it is no coincidence that the official program of the National Renaissance Party should be called "The New Atlantis," that the use of the Atlantis myth by Plato should be a major source of doctrine for Spengler's The Decline of the West, in the period before the Nazis took power, and that the identical theme should also pervade various other reactionary "counter-culture" cults, whether explicitly "primitivist" or "technocratic" in their belief-structures.
Several of LaRouche's pet obsessions are derived directly from Spengler's The Decline of the West. In some cases the identical phraseology of the two tempts one to identify LaRouche's theories as "Neo-Plagiarism"! The great polemic against "Entropy" as the enemy of progress, the siding with Leibniz against Einstein, in physics, defined as a question of not only politics, but "good" versus "evil" religiosity, and in particular, the breaking down of historical phases and modes into three great definitive elemental "essences"--all of these LaRouchian formulas can be found, intact, in Spengler's work.
Spengler starts off section XIV of the chapter on "Nature-Knowledge" of his Decline of the West (page 420, 1927 Knopf edition): "Amongst these symbols of doom, the most conspicuous is the notion of Entropy...what has never hitherto been fully felt, and what leads me to regard the Entropy theory (1850) as the beginning of the destruction of that masterpiece of Western intelligence, the old dynamic physics, is the deep opposition of theory and actuality...." Spengler identifies the "old dynamic physics" with the same primary figures which LaRouche claims showed him how to "correct," and then reject, Marx. The index to Spengler's book shows that he makes more reference to Leibniz than any other individual person except for Nietzsche and Kant. Riemann, another LaRouche favorite, is also abundantly treated by Spengler.
Spengler's book is an attempt to mesh classical Greek philosophical concepts, particularly the elitist metaphysics of Plato, with the modernity of mathematics, physics, and the other rigorous sciences. American brands of occultism, such as the Scientology cult, have often been based on this particular blend, but it is LaRouche who claims to develop this into a formal ideology, even a religious belief. In The Case of Walter Lippmann, LaRouche's primary "Presidential" statement, the Spenglerian formula that divides history into three general modes of expression is restated by LaRouche as the division of all "Epistemology" into "Promethean," "Apollonian" and "Dionysian." The first category is claimed to be that of LaRouche and his following as well as a "handful" of the world's "inner elites," but it is also meant to represent, as in classical fascist ideology, the "essence of the Western Soul," the supposed occult inner dynamic that has given the European capitalists, and also the American imperialists, a special "right" and "duty" to rule the world.
In Chapter IX of The Decline of the West, Spengler presents the notions that LaRouche bases this formula on. This chapter, "Soul-Image and Life-Feeling--On The Form of the Soul," presents Spengler's idea of the "Soul-image as function of World-Image....Psychology of a counter-physics....Apollonian, Magian, and Faustian soul-image...." It is clear that Spengler's "Faustian" is the same as LaRouche's "Promethean." Likewise, both use the Apollonian category in the same sense, while the third category--Dionysian or Magian--is reserved for all those "alien" concepts and influences which are judged by Spengler and LaRouche to be responsible for all the evils affecting otherwise "dynamic" western civilization.
After Spengler, but before LaRouche, Oswald Mosley, the British fascist, is to produce an identical occultist system, also, like LaRouche, partially as a code to conceal advocacy of policies which would otherwise be condemned as nazi. In Chapter 25, "The Faustian Riddle," of Oswald Mosley by Robert Skidelsky, it is described how Mosley, during the time that he was interned as a suspected Nazi agent during World War II, concentrated on translating Goethe's Faust from German into English, as well as working on writings of the 18th century German neo-Hellenists, other than Goethe. On pages 479, 500, and elsewhere in his book, unabashed Mosley admirer Skidelsky points out Mosley's study of the "Platonic problem of making men fit for power," and the need for the post-war fascist movement to developed a "Platonic Academy" (page 500). This particular project has become a pet obsession with LaRouche.
The Blue Book of the John Birch Society, which is the organization's basic political manual and statement of beliefs, written by Robert Welch, the JBS founder, also makes extensive references to and use of this Spenglerism. The 12th printing of the Blue Book, issued in 1961, presents it as following. Section One contains the standard anti-communist paranoid schema. However, Section Two, entitled "But Let's Look Deeper" (page 41, 1961 edition) presents the actual internal rationale, for Welch as with other elitist fascists, for the anti-communism itself. Welch writes, in the second paragraph of this Section, "In my opinion, the first great basic weakness of the United States, and hence its susceptibility to the disease of collectivism, is simply the age of the Western European civilization. Some of you will already have recognized, in fact that I am drawing a corollary to the conclusions usually connected with the name of Oswald Spengler...the convincing way in which Darwin's general theory fitted the known facts of human history just would not let his conclusion be downed and forgotten....Until at last the international socialists, with the Fabians and Labor Party bosses in England taking the lead, made one grand and lasting effort to have Spengler discredited...." Like LaRouche is to do more than a decade and a half later, Welch identifies the Fabians as the special enemies of "western civilization" and its would-be spokesmen.
The use of the terms "Dionysian," "Magian," etc. as code-words for anti-Semitic attacks against ideological enemies or rivals, a tradition begun by pre-Nazi fascist and racialist ideologues, was passed on into the lexicon of the early attempts at building mass fascist political movements through the droves of White Russian counter-revolutionary émigrés who flooded the greater and lesser capitals and cities of the west after the 1917 revolution. These layers had inherited the occultist traditions within the decadent Russian nobility as well as [theories that] were popular, spiced with the fabrications of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, in the ranks of the Czarist secret police, the Okhrana. After the revolution, bookshops in Paris and London were flooded with books written by dispossessed nobility which laid the blame for Bolshevism upon "dark forces," especially the alleged "international Jewish conspiracy." Seeking to open up relations with homegrown reactionary and rightist currents, many of these books were written in an occult or semi-coded form, using categories already familiar to the conspiracy-fixated French right wing, for example.
This material has been picked up by LaRouche and his associates, lock stock and barrel, and has been "recycled" and "updated" for use as a basis for a neo-fascist ideology and movement in this country. Whether this movement is to be actually composed of the NCLC, USLP, etc., they are intended to serve as the advance guard of this movement, testing the waters with various formulas and approaches in such a way as larger, more factionally-interlinked rightist formations cannot do. This is clear when we examine the similarity, if not identical character, of the early fascist occultism with LaRouche's.
One of the best sellers in the White Russian/occult fascist category is a book, recently reprinted by Steiner Books (Blauvelt, New York, 1971) entitled Atlantis/Europe: The Secret of the West. This book was written in the 1920's by Dmitri Merejkowski, son of an official at the Czar's court, in exile in France after 1917, who remained in Paris when it was occupied by the Nazis, considered favorable to the fascist cause generally, and died there in 1941. This book is entirely constructed, as is LaRouche's occultism, around Plato, the myth of Atlantis, and the lessons of the "fall of Atlantis" for the "West." Merejkowski draws extensively from Plato's Timaeus, which was recently reprinted in an allegedly new "truthful" translation, by the LaRouche cult, and considered the main source for the Atlantis myth. The main theme that emerges from all of the various uses of this myth, including by the reactionary Plato himself, is that Atlantis--the West--is "betrayed," or threatened by "betrayal," from within, from alien elements that violate the principle of hierarchy--so-called "Natural Law"--by their alleged rebellion or dissent against the ruling elites. All of them identify this rebellion or dissent with "primitive," "backward" Dionysian, "sub-human, bestial," and other such categories. All the Plato-loving occultists make Science and the ruling Religion synonymous, so that dissent is an alleged "threat to Progress." (Along these same lines, striking workers are accused by LaRouche and his cult of being "Luddites," "anarchists," enemies of progress, etc.)
Other than Merejkowski, another White Russian exile who had an even more direct personal role in the development of Nazism was Alfred Rosenberg. Rosenberg's recently reprinted writings (Race and Race History and Other Essays, Harper & Row, 1970, series of books on "roots of the right") express many strong similarities with both the Spengler occult-fascist tradition as well as LaRouche's neo-fascism today. Rosenberg uses the Platonic occultist categories to define those he identifies as the "alien enemy" of the West--like Spengler and LaRouche, Rosenberg firmly believes in a conspiracy theory of history. Rosenberg first identifies the "spiritual" nature of the enemy as he sees it in the first essay in this collection (pages 49-50): "Dionysus entered into Greek life as something racially and spiritually foreign and in this role he was a sure sign of the physical decline that accompanied the decline of the Nordic race. Under the flickering light of torches, accompanied by the clashing of metal cymbals and hand-clapping and the shrilling of flutes, Dionysian celebrants collect themselves into a swirling circle-dance....Each and every one of these customs was completely opposed to those of the Greeks. They represented the 'religion of frenzy' which dominated the entire eastern region of the Mediterranean, a religion borne by the Afro-Asian races and race mixtures."
This attack by Rosenberg is identical to the attacks that LaRouche makes in his various writings against what he calls the "Dionysians," the "Cult of Isis," and the "anti-humanist secret elites," all code words for the traditional fascist bogeyman--the Jewish people. LaRouche's The Case of Walter Lippmann (page 117) is illustrated with a full-page picture from an ancient Greek vase, with the sub-title: "Dionysus, ancient god of wine, and modern symbol of the nominalist and Tory world outlook...." The theme of the modern revolutionary and left-wing movements as being "Dionysian" shows up again and again in LaRouche's works. In his "Secrets Known Only to the Inner Elites" (May 1978), one of his photo captions states: "Dionysian cults, yesterday and today: throughout the centuries a basic item of anti-humanist social control technique" together with illustrations (pages 22, 23) portraying alleged "Dionysiac frenzies."
Rosenberg continues his version of history along the same lines as LaRouche. Like LaRouche and other fascists after him, Rosenberg idealizes particularly the person he calls "inconceivably great," Frederick II of the Hohenstauffens (pages 73-74, Race and Race History) who Rosenberg says, "formed the first secular state, the Sicilian royal house, and who settled its provinces with German aristocrats...." Like LaRouche, Rosenberg, drawing upon the Spenglerian "thesis" about western science, declares that Leibniz is the source of inspiration for "true" "German" modern physics, as opposed to "English empiricism" which is equated with the Dionysian or nominalist and bestialist world outlook. Rosenberg (page 87, Race and Race History) declares: "Leibniz was opposed to the mechanical atomism of someone like Hobbes, who maintained that society, a totality, originated from an adding together of unformed pieces....Leibniz claimed that the blending together of the individual and the general consummated itself in the form of individuality, and, in so doing, this synthesis concretizes itself in a living, unique manner....Similarly, Herder, who in one way was seeking a humanistic absolute, penetrated even more deeply into the great thought of Leibniz...." This type of thinking is exactly what LaRouche represents today: Use and misuse of the ideas of Leibniz or whoever is used as a smoke screen for a racialist and elitist occultism, the threads from which Nazi and fascist ideologies were always woven.
As far as any actual "philosophical" content that can be ascribed to this whole world-outlook, the following must be pointed out. Despite various differences in the forms and formulas employed, Spengler, Rosenberg, and LaRouche are all associated with an attempt to separate the dialectical method from, and against, materialism. They all attempt to separate the conclusions of modern science from, and against, the traditions of scientific method that led up to those conclusions. Separating science out from, and pitting it against materialism, an allegedly "bestial" and "alien" world outlook, they are forced to "replace" it by adding in the religious, occult and mythic component. Thus, the grotesque anachronism of LaRouche, like the Nazi scientists who worked on attempted nuclear weaponry at the end of the war, blending scientific advances, including nuclear technology, together with occultism, an occultism that actually itself stems from pre-capitalist and feudalist outlooks.
An examination of the occultist ideas associated with the whole range of stages of the development of fascism, from its early forms to its recent "neo" phase, shows LaRouche to be only the latest, even if one of the less original, of a tradition, a tradition that even under the LaRouchian guise of "humanism" is the veritable enemy of humanity, and in the name of "Progress," the sworn enemy of all progressives.
Additional notes on Nazis and Atlantis....
It is no coincidence that of all the elements of "Neo-Platonism," as applied by LaRouche, the Platonic mythology and symbology of Atlantis should be particularly important. The irony of the use of the Atlantis myth by LaRouche in that association with this myth actually points to a completely regressive view of history, a view of history that is the opposite of any notion of historical progress! Essentially the myth of Atlantis, as defined in Plato's original conception, and as understood by LaRouche and other neo-fascist occultists, states that history begins at a certain peak, a height, from which it is descending. Atlantis, a supposedly higher civilization, was destroyed, from within and through "betrayal," etc., and all those stages of civilization that have followed have been basically lower forms, as they move further into the present period, and thus further away from the earlier Atlantean "Golden Age." This reactionary occultism also underlies the outlooks that permeate the ranks of believers in UFO's, hollow-earth quacks, and the current pyramid and "lost civilizations" cult generally.
In LaRouche's particular version of this mythology, Atlantis' fall was followed by the rule of "bestialists" and "anti-humanists," under which he groups practically all of the cultures of ancient history as we know it, which LaRouche declares to be a "monstrous fraud" since it leaves out the earlier "Golden Age." After the fall of Atlantis, in LaRouche's eyes as in Plato's, the Atlantean knowledge was passed on through "secret elites," down through history. Furthermore, all actual scientific discovery and artistic creativity is explained, not through actual historical progress as a scientifically-defined process, but as "secret knowledge" which has been "leaked" out to the non-elite masses by the secret elites.
The Nazi high-command, like Larouche, have a long documented history of fascination with, and use of, the Atlantis mythology. The Morning of the Magicians (Pauwels and Bergier, 1960) dealt in some detail with the occultism of the Nazi movements, before and during the period when they took power. This book points out that the occultism of the Nazis was not merely a feature of their "early" or "kooky" phase, when fascist gangs were formed out of occult societies like the Thule Society, but was also carried right into the decision-making circles of the Nazi leadership during the war. Records on OSS activity show that this element of the Nazis' profile was closely studied and exploited by allied intelligence services and their psychological-warfare "black operations" branches.
On page 206, Rauschning, Hitler's personal aide, is quoted: "At bottom, every German has one foot in Atlantis, where he seeks a better Fatherland and a better patrimony. The double nature of the Germans, this faculty they have of splitting their personality which enables them to live in the real world and at the same time to project themselves into an imaginary world, is especially noticeable in Hitler and provides the key to his 'magic socialism'...."
Part Two (190-284) of The Morning of the Magicians deals extensively with the occultism of the early and later Nazis, and its links to their scientific and pseudo-scientific researches, including their efforts in rocketry, nuclear [etc].
In the section of their book on the Nazi use of the Atlantis myth, Pauwels and Bergier identify the origins of this idea in early Nazism in the person of one Hans Horbiger, a quack scientist-physicist who in 1925 began organizing his own movement as an explicit scientific-academic parallel to Hitler's Brownshirts. Horbiger still has over one million followers in the world today, largely in West Germany! Perhaps they are supporters of the "Atlantean" zombies of LaRouche's West German affiliate, the ELP. In any case, Horbiger believed that several succeeding higher civilizations on the earth had each been destroyed by a series of cataclysms wherein three of the earth's four moons had fallen on the earth, causing the disaster. According to Horbiger, the present moon is the fourth, also scheduled to fall. In his scheme, Atlantis is the third, or previous, civilization to our own, higher than ours in every way. Horbiger, like Hitler, saw the Germans, the "Aryans," as being the "true" descendants of the lost Atlanteans. All others are "subhuman" and in fact are a totally different race, or "species," a favorite LaRouche conception!
[Editor's note: This essay was not written for publication but as a discussion document which the author circulated to a few friends and journalists. It represents the thinking of a number of individuals who left the LaRouche organization in the late 1970s and demonstrates, among other things, that I was not alone in detecting a crypto-Nazi code language in LaRouche's writings. I have taken the liberty of copy editing the document for punctuation, spelling, capitalization, etc. In addition I added in brackets the words "theories that" in the second sentence of the ninth paragraph, since this was obviously the sense of what the author was trying to say. I also took the final clause from the first sentence of the 10th paragraph and moved it to the beginning of the next sentence for the same reason, while changing "LaRouche states" to "one of his photo captions states" in the last sentence of the 13th paragraph.
[Although this is a fine essay full of original insights, there are two caveats that I feel sure the author would want pointed out today. First, the reference to Oswald Spengler's "fascist occultism" is imprecise. Spengler was not an occultist, and at the time he wrote The Decline of the West, fascism was only in its infancy. However, there were certainly proto-fascist, chauvinistic and irrationalist elements in Spengler's thinking that fascist occultists and just plain fascists would embrace enthusiastically. Spengler himself made statements strongly sympathetic to Nazism in the 1930s, and after the war Francis Parker Yockey, in the infamous Imperium (1948), would present a neo-Nazi philosophy based on a close reading of Spengler. Second, in the appendix on Atlantis above, reference is made to The Morning of the Magicians by Pauwels and Bergier. It is now known, thanks to the British scholar Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke (The Occult Roots of Nazism, 1992), that certain claims in their book are inaccurate, overwrought or even downright fraudulent. But the basic point of the Atlantis appendix is still valid, since its author avoided the more outlandish claims of Pauwels/Bergier and since Goodrick-Clarke's definitive study documents an abundance of real links between Nazism and the occult (the influence of occultism on various other far-rightist and fascist trends throughout the 20th century is beyond dispute). In addition, the urban legends of Pauwels and Bergier--and of their many imitators--have become integrated into the thinking of many neo-Nazis and neo-fascists around the world. Believing the lurid claims in these books, half-educated or fantasy-prone ultrarightists have striven to imitate fiction by studying the occult (as did members of the National Renaissance Party in the United States) and dreaming of Atlantean ruins under the sea. It is natural that an opportunist such as LaRouche would weave Atlantis into his own propaganda tracts in order to gain the attention of such elements (and steal their credit card numbers).--DK]

  • ***
    This is from a wikpedia entry:
    Jews and the Holocaust
    LaRouche has been regularly accused of anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial.
    From the early 1970s LaRouche regularly criticized Zionism. The relationship of Zionism to Judaism is controversial; supporters of Zionism allege that anti-Zionism is often a form of disguised anti-Semitism. Even critics of Zionism or current Israeli government policies admit that sometimes anti-Zionism steps over the line into anti-Semitic stereotyping. [5]
    In 1979 the LaRouche publication Campaigner published an issue entitled "Zionism is not Judaism."
    In NCLC publications during the 1970s, some Jewish individuals were accused of running the slave trade, controlling organized crime, and the drug trade. LaRouche also claimed that the "Zionist lobby" significantly influenced the U.S. government. Any American professing "Zionist loyalties" was, he said, a "national security risk." However, during this period LaRouche publications such as Campaigner magazine often promoted Philo of Alexandria and Maimonides as positive examples of the "Platonic humanist current in Judaism," and most of the leadership of the NCLC was Jewish.
    Dennis King has described LaRouche as expressing anti-Semitic ideas in both an open and a coded form. As an example of the open form, King cites LaRouche's statement (under the pen name L. Marcus) in The Case of Ludwig Feuerbach (1973), where he said that "Jewish culture ... is merely the residue left to the Jewish home after everything saleable has been marketed to the Goyim." As an example of the coded form, King alleges that when LaRouche and his followers use the term "British" in certain contexts which King characterizes as "conspiracist" or "racialist", they actually mean "Jewish." One example is an unsigned editorial in the official LaRouche newspaper New Solidarity in 1978 which states: "America must be cleansed for its righteous war by the immediate elimination of the Nazi Jewish Lobby and other British agents from the councils of government, industry, and labor."
    LaRouche has been regularly accused of Holocaust denial, widely seen as a hallmark of anti-Semitism. In 1978, LaRouche wrote (in "New Pamphlet to Document Cult Origins of Zionism," New Solidarity, December 8, 1978) that "only" 1.5 million Jews died during World War II.
    It is argued [LaRouche wrote] that the culmination of the persecution of the Jews in the Nazi holocaust proves that Zionism is so essential to "Jewish survival" that any anti-Zionist is therefore not only an anti-Semite, but that any sort of criminal action is excusable against anti-Zionists in memory of the mythical "six million Jewish victims" of the Nazi "holocaust."
    This is worse than sophistry. It is a lie. True, about a million and a half Jews did die as a result of the Nazi policy of labor-intensive "appropriate technology" for the employment of "inferior races," a small fraction of the tens of million of others - especially Slavs - who were murdered in the same way Jewish refugee Felix Rohaytin proposes today. Even on a relative scale, what the Nazis did to Jewish victims was mild compared with the virtual extermination of gypsies and the butchery of Communists.
    Not only does LaRouche place "holocaust" in inverted commas and refer to the "the mythical six million Jewish victims", his assertion that Jews died only as a result of forced labor can only be read as a denial that the extermination camps existed, a denial of the fact that the Nazis directly and deliberately killed millions of Jews, both in these camps and by means of the Einsatzgruppen.
    LaRouche's critics claim he is a "disguised anti-Semite," in that he takes the classical anti-Semitic conspiracy theory and substitutes the word "Zionist" for the word "Jew", and ascribes the classical anti-Semite's caricature of the evil, scheming Jew to particular, named, Jews and groups of Jews, rather than to the Jews as a whole.
    The Czarist Okhrana's "Protocols of Zion" include a hard kernel of truth which no mere Swiss court decision could legislate out of existence. The fallacy of the "Protocols of Zion" is that it attributes the alleged conspiracy to Jews generally, to Judaism. A corrected version of the Protocols would stipulate that the evil oaths cited were actually the practices of variously a Paris branch of B'nai B'rith and the evidence the Okhrana turned up in tracing the penetration of the Romanian branch of B'nai B'rith (Zion) into such Russian centres of relevance as Odessa..."
    LaRouche's principal target in this article is "Zionism." Zionism is a Jewish political movement supporting the creation and, since 1948, defense of Israel as a Jewish state. For LaRouche, however, it is an underground conspiracy, existing since the 16th century. "Modern Zionism was not created by Jews, but was a project developed chiefly by Oxford University," LaRouche says.
    Today, LaRouche says, Zionism is controlled by the financiers of London: "Zionism is the state of collective psychosis through which London manipulates most of the international Jewry", and "Zionist cultism is among the most important of the levers through which British criminality and miscalculation is plunging the world towards [war]."
    LaRouche denies equating "Zionism" with Judaism. "You cannot be a Zionist and also a Jew," he writes. However, when LaRouche accuses ";Zionists" of treason and conspiracy, he is seen by Jews, and many others, to be levelling those accusations against most Jews. When he accuses organisations such as B'nai B'rith, the ADL, and many individual Jews, of various crimes, he is seen to be attacking the great majority of Jews who support those organisations and those individuals. His critics claim that he attributes to the ADL "the classic crimes of the sterotypical Jew of the anti-Semitic imagination," although he has also referred to the ADL as the "FBI's private asset."
    LaRouche has never explicitly repudiated the views expressed in the 1978 article, and in the 1980s, the Supreme Court of New York state ruled that calling LaRouche an anti-Semite was "fair comment".
    In recent years, however, LaRouche may have modified his views on these subjects. In 1999, LaRouche published an article called "A Personal Statement from Lyndon LaRouche on Music, Judaism, and Hitler." In this article, he several times refers to "the Jew," a usage typical of anti-Semites and one which he must have known is offensive to Jews. Nevertheless, in the course of a discussion on Moses Mendelssohn, LaRouche acknowledges the contribution made by Jews to European civilization. He says: "Germany can never be truly freed from the legacy of Hitler's crimes, until the contributions of German Jews, in particular, are celebrated as an integral part of the honorable history of Germany." The article contains several other statements in similar vein, including praise for Walther Rathenau, an archetypal Jewish business figure.
    In the same article LaRouche also acknowledges that the Holocaust is not mostly mythological or a Zionist swindle. He says: "We cannot allow 2,000 years of Jewish survival in Europe to be buried under the faceless stone epitaph which speaks only of a bare 13-odd years of Hitler's Holocaust." He explicity states that "Yes, Hitler killed millions of Jews," a direct repudiation of his 1978 statement that only 1.5 million died and those not as a result of a deliberate plan of extermination. This article can be seen as a significant, if unacknowledged, retreat by LaRouche from his statements of the 1970s and 1980s. In recent years, LaRouche publications have begun to feature articles praising the Yiddish Renaissance, such as I.L. Peretz, Father of the Yiddish Renaissance. LaRouche and his organization have also maintained a public dialogue with Israeli and Jewish leaders, such as Maxim Ghilan and Rabbi Arthur Hertzberg, who advocate a negotiated peace with the Palestinians. LaRouche supporters argue these and other recent statements mean LaRouche is not an anti-Semite.
    The charge of antisemitism in the LaRouche network resurfaced in the media in 2004 in accounts of the death of a young Jewish student, Jeremiah Duggan, who had been attending a Schiller Institute event in Germany; and in criticism of how the LaRouche group framed the issue of the U.S.-led war in Iraq in ways that recalled anti-Semitic stereotypes.
    According to Chip Berlet:
    Antisemitic conspiracism is aggressively peddled to progressives by several rightwing groups including the international network run by Lyndon LaRouche, a frequently unsuccessful US presidential candidate. While LaRouche rhetoric can seem bonkers, his followers are successful in recruiting students on college campuses and in networking with some Black Nationalist groups. Sometimes Arab publications circulate articles from LaRouche group analysts. When LaRouche publications condemn the neoconservative policy advisers to President Bush as the 'Children of Satan', it echoes historic antisemitic rhetoric about evil Jewish conspiracies tracing back to medieval Europe.6?
    Daniel Levitas writes: "For almost three decades, Lyndon LaRouche has engaged in political activities that have been chameleonlike in their shifts from left to right; however, he has been consistent in creating and elaborating conspiracy theories that contain a strong dose of antisemitism." Daniel Levitas, "Antisemitism and the Far Right: "Hate" Groups, White Supermacy, and the Neo-Nazi Movement," in ed. Jerome A. Chanes, Antisemitism in America Today: Outspoken Experts Explode the Myths, (New York: Birch Lane Press/Carol Publishing, 1995), pp. 191-192.
  • *
    Here is another entry which describes what some Jewish members were going through many years ago.
    Archive/File: larouche larouche.010
    Last-modified: 1993/05/06
    XRef: index larouche, larouche larouche.ihr
    Former NCLC member Linda Ray, in her 1986 article "Breaking the
    Silence," describes another factor - the NCLC habit of knee-jerk
    rationalization. Ray, who is Jewish, says that whenever anyone tired
    to tell her the NCLC was anti-Semitic, she instantly denied it,
    pointing to supposedly anti-Nazi statements in 'New Solidarity.' She
    recalls reading the 'New Solidarity' about LaRouche's concept of a
    subhuman oligarchical species. "Although I knew it did not make
    scientific sense, I presumed that it was a deep intellectual metaphor
    that was over my head." Years later a friend showed he a 'New
    Solidarity' article in which the Star of David was used to symbolize
    the drug trade. "I quickly replied... 'It is just a graphic arts
    symbol' - which I had naively thought for years. But as soon as I
    said it out loud I realized that I sounded ridiculous. It was as if I
    was waking from a nightmare."
    Ray's article explains the state of mind of many NCLC
    rand-and-filers. It does not explain the acquiescence of the NCLC
    national and regional leadership cadre, many of them Jewish, who
    helped develop the anti-Semitic line and implemented it with
    alacrity. Here, as during Mop Up and the Chris White affair, a few
    rebelled but most bowed to LaRouche's will.
    Kevin Coogan, a member of the intelligence staff, did some background
    research on Carto and the Liberty Lobby. Shocked by what he
    discovered, he quit. Several other members of the national office
    staff also resigned. They prepared unsigned reports and met privately
    with journalists, stating that the NCLC had become an anti-Semitic
    organization and that LaRouche was espousing Nazi ideas. But none
    were willing to go public against LaRouche.
    Security staffer Bob Cohen played a key role in stirring up the
    discontent. He met with several trusted comrades to point out the
    similarities between LaRouche's writings and 'Mein Kampf.' But when
    his friends decided to quit, Cohen backed out. His reverence for
    LaRouche kept him in the organization until 1981.
    Cohen's brother-in-law and fellow security staffer, Paul Goldstein,
    came back seething from a trip down South with LaRouche. The hulking
    former college athlete had been present, as LaRouche's bodyguard,
    when anti-Semitic jokes were traded among the good old boys.
    Goldstein, former friends say, was almost ready to quit. But the
    leadership put him through an ego-stripping session led by Helga
    LaRouche. The session focused on his alleged sexual fantasies, and he
    was told his wife would be ordered to leave him if he didn't shape
    up. Goldstein, reduced to tears, capitulated totally. Thereafter, he
    was one of LaRouceh's most loyal followers.
    A few more NCLC members protested when LaRouche announced that only
    one and a half million Jews, not six million, were killed in the
    Holocaust. Contemptuously ignoring his followers' complaints, he
    issued a press release reaffirming the 1.5 million figure.
    By 1980-81 the protest over LaRouche's anti-Semitism died down. Most
    NCLC members who subsequently quit did so for personal reasons, not
    over matters of principle. Unlike earlier defectors, most would do
    nothing to oppose LaRouche. Don and Alice Roth charged in a
    resignation letter that the membership had undergone a process of
    "moral anaesthetization" They cited a joke that they sad had become
    popular in the national office: "How many Jews can you fit into a
    Volkswagon? One hundred. Four on the seats and ninety-six in the
    ashtray."
    In psychological terms the anti-Semitism that seized the NCLC in the
    late 1970s was similar to the violent fantasies that gripped it
    during Operation Mop Up. Instead of assaulting Communists with
    numchukas, the NCLC now attacked Jews via brutally worded propaganda
    tracts. Once again LaRouche helped his followers overcome their moral
    qualms by reframing reality for them through semantic tricks and
    false syllogisms.
    The resulting belief structure involved four layers: a redefinition
    of "Jew," a redefinition of "Nazi," a denial of the concepts of
    "left" and "right" in politics (to totally disorient the believer),
    and, for Jewish LaRouchians, a guilt trip and special fears.
    To redefine the meaning of "Jew," LaRouche concocted a distinction
    between real and false Jews. He said his political attacks were not
    aimed at all Jews, just those who advocate evil policies like
    Zionism. Using Orwellian semantics, he called the latter "nominal
    Jews," and the "Jews who are not Jews." Who then are the real Jews?
    LaRouche said they are the Jewish members of a "humanist" faction
    drawing its inspiration from Philo of Alexandria, a first-century
    Jewish neoplatonist.
    Here LaRouche was at his wiliest. For Philo has no following in
    modern Judaism. His only professed followers are LaRouche's own NCLC
    members, whose interpretation of Philo bears little relation to the
    latter's actual writings.
    The bogus nature of the "real Jew" faction was further revealed in
    LaRouche's polemics against the "unremitting evil" of Zionism. To be
    a real Jew, he suggested, one must repudiate the State of Israel,
    Zionism, and the mainstream leadership of the Jewish community. But a
    sizable minority of Jews are already anti-Zionist and estranged from
    the mainstream Jewish leadership - e.g., some of the Hassidim and
    many secular Jewish leftists. Are they "real Jews"? Not at all. In
    LaRouchian propaganda the Hassidim are portrayed as evil cultists
    while leftist Jews appear as dope-pushing terrorists. In the final
    analysis the Jewish members of the LaRouche organization - a few
    score individuals - are the only real Jews in the world!
    LaRouche redefined what a Nazi is in tracts such as "The Truth About
    'German Collective Guilt'" and "Hitler: Runaway British Agent." He
    argued that Hitler was put into power by the Rothschilds and other
    wealthy Jews-who-are-not-really-Jews. These evil oligarchs invented
    Nazi racialism and brainwashed the Nazis to accept it. They then
    urged Hitler and his cronies to persecute the German Jews so the
    latter would flee to Palestine, where the Rothschilds had decided to
    set up a zombie state as a tool of their world domination. But as
    this scenario unfolded, the German people developed their own agenda
    :a "sound and intense... national enthusiam" to invade Britain (the
    Rothschild headquarters). Hitler at first acquiesced in this desire,
    but unfortunately he was ideologically weak - he backed off and
    returned to the puppet masters' game plan by attacking the Soviet
    Union. Thus did LaRouche place the ultimate blame for Hitler's crimes
    on the Jews-who-are-not-Jews-but-really-are-the-Jews-anyway.
    LaRouche didn't deny that Hitler and the Nazis were partly
    responsible for many horrendous crimes as the Rothschilds' junion
    accomplices. But he instructed NCLC members to focus on a newer and
    deadlier plot. The Rothschilds and other "British" families - and the
    Israelis - were preparing to launch a HOlocaust a _hundred_ times
    worse than Hitler's. This new Holocaust was aimed at consolidating
    "British" power, and would involve the death of billions of human
    beings via nuclear war, plagues, famine, and a New Dark Age - horrors
    that would make the "Nazi thing" seem like a "slight mistake." The
    New Dark Age conspirators were "a hundred times worse" than Hitler,
    and anyone collaborating with them (like Jimmy Carter) was also a
    hundred times worse.
    With his followers thus confused, LaRouche was able to switch labels
    on his concepts. The New Dark Age conspirators were not only far
    worse than the Nazis of the Hitler era, they _were_ Nazis. The real
    Nazis were the hundred-times-worse Nazis. Menachem Begin was a Nazi,
    Ariel Sharon was a Nazi, the "Jewish Lobby" in America was "Nazi."
    It followed from this relabeling that anyone who opposed Israel and
    the "Jewish Lobby" was, objectively, _anti_-Nazi. LaRouche's
    followers thus ended up with a topsy-turvy view in which the real
    Nazis were seen as anti-Nazis, and anti-Semitism was perceived as a
    moral necessity - to "save" the Jews from themselves. The LaRouchians
    accordingly worked seven days a week to build a fascist movement
    while imagining they were building an antifascist movement. LaRouche
    had used their fears of fascism to further fascist goals.
    There was always the possibility that some NCLC members would wake up(
    and begin to critically examine these Orwellian labels. Stage three
    guarded against such a possibility. In "The Secrets Known Only to theK
    Inner Elites," LaRouche announced that the left and the right in
    politics don't really exists. They are a fiction concealing the
    struggles of two conspiratorial elites - the humanist elite
    (LaRouchians or proto-LaRouchians) and the oligarchical elite (the
    Jews-who-are-not-Jews, etc.) Hence, in judging a given party or
    faction one should not ask where it stands on the political spectrum,
    but which elite is manipulating it. Depending on the answer, there
    are good Communists and bad Communists, good conservatives and bad
    conservatives, good Klansmen and bad Klansmen. During World War II
    there were good Nazis (the Wehrmacht) and bad Nazis (the Rothschild
    agents-of-influence in the Nazi Party leadership).
    With the traditional political spectrum abolished, LaRouche's
    followers no longer had to deal with the glaring contradictions
    between their old leftist and new fascist politics. For all intents
    and purposes, the NCLC's political past no longer existed. Fascism
    and communism no longer existed. All that mattered were LaRouchism
    and anti-LaRouchism, which were whatever LaRouche said they were.
    When LaRouche first promulgated these views in the late 1970s, he
    played on his Jewish followers' fuilt feelings, their anxiety over
    their possible tainted status in the NCLC, and their nightmares about
    the Holocaust. In a 1978 article on the "cult origins of Zionism," he
    warned the NCLC Jews: IF you don't put aside your doubts and totally
    devote yourself to our political goals, you are "just as guilty" as
    Adolf Hitler. Indeed, you are _more_ guilty, since the consequences
    of an NCLC failure to take power will be human death on a far greater
    scale than under Hitler. But I know you: Underneath your veneer of
    loyalty to the NCLC you still have a residual sense of loyalty to
    your fellow Jews - the false Jews. Insofar as you feel that residual
    loyalty, you are "on the pathway to becoming a Nazi" - a supporter of
    the evil oligarchy's plan to kill off two-thirds of the human race.
    Forget your narrow bestial ethnic loyalties! Instead ask yourself:
    "What is a good Jew for? What can a Jew contribute to humanity
    generally which obliges humanity to value the Jew?" (King,42-46)
    Work Cited:
    King, Dennis. Lyndon LaRouche and the New American Fascism. New York:
    Doubleday, 1989
 

dave72 (dave72)
08-13-2005, 02:23 PM
I think that one of the problems that I had coming to terms with the antisemitism of the LC is that during our "private moments" neither myself or anyone I knew in the org were antisemites. I would meet obvious antisemites on the street while organizing and these were generally wretched, unpleasant people who did not disguise their visceral hatred of Jews. I definitely wasn't one of them. From Larouche's writings I can now conclude that he is antisemitic. It seems that we were antisemitic as a group yet as individuals we weren't. However if Larouche announced tomorrow that the Jews ( both real and not) were actually the true creators of western civilization I believe that the organization would accept it without missing a beat.

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
08-14-2005, 06:38 AM
You are correct Dave72. I often have to explain to people that you did not work from an office with Nazi regalia on the walls. But, you did seel many publications at a card table shrine extolling the virtues of Nazi Rocket Scientists.
If you were growing up in the 1960's, you may have been familiar with Von Braun via the Saturn 5 rocket. But, how many people knew the extent of Operation Paper Clip following WW2? The first time I myself heard of Peeneemunde was while I was in the org. The way it was presented to us was that these brilliant Germans were working against their will in developing V2 rockets.
The words of Arthur Rudolph and Winterberg are chilling to say the least.
After leaving the LC for good, people react in diffferent ways. Some are terrified of the cult because we have seen first hand the dirty tricks we used against our enemies. Some people are in a fog since in the back of their heads, they think that maybe Lyn is correct, the org is messed up and Lyn does not know. "If only Lyn Knew about this" was a common theme. This is bunk by the way. ANother option is to just blank everything out and start from sratch with your life.
I started from scratch and many years later found myself watching the History channel one night when what comes on but a two hour show about Nazi rocket scientists. Now I am seeing Nazi films and OSS films of Peneemunde and the Dora death camps. Some names roll by and I say to myself "Holy S**t, we were a damn PR agancy for these killers."
To think back and see how we were able to slowly change the members into adopting many of these platforms is something that many of us avoided. I would pay attention to the long term German contacts of the org as they will become important for this generation of yutes.
Amazing that all of this happened when most of the Yutes were still bottle fed and diapered. Still waiting for Yute comments on the Mars Society web site.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

  • **
    From the King book
    The LaRouchians reached out to former Nazi scientists who had worked on V-2 rockets, jet aircraft, and the Nazi version of the atom bomb at research centers like Peenemunde. They also approached West German military officers, using a sales pitch which glorified "clas*sical German culture" as the high point of world civilization while vilifying Russian culture. LaRouche developed a new version of the Grand Design featuring forced-draft development of SDI, under*ground factories on the moon, Lebensraum on Mars, and electromag*netic weapons capable of turning the Soviet Union into a vast micro*wave oven.
    LaRouche and his wife, Helga, quickly developed a following among retired West German military men. Admiral Karl-Adolf Zenker, former head of the West German Navy and a World War II veteran, joined Patriots for Germany and met with LaRouche on many occasions. As a Navy captain in 1956 Zenker had created a furor by telling cadets they should respect Admirals Erich Raeder and Karl Doenitz, Nazi war criminals convicted at Nuremberg. Zenker said the two were blameless men who had merely done their "duty to their people." When La*Rouche was indicted for obstruction of justice in a credit-card fraud case in 1987, Zenker called him an "honest defender of a strong West*ern alliance."
    Brigadier General Paul-Albert Scherer, former chief of West German military counterintelligence, also joined the bandwagon. After La*Rouche's indictment, he testified before a Schiller Institute-sponsored commission set up to prove that the U.S. government was violating LaRouche's civil rights. He praised LaRouche's warm heart, "gentle humor," and devotion to the Western alliance.
    LaRouche's New Benjamin Franklin Publishing House issued a trans*lation of Modern Irregular Warfare by Brigadier General (Reserves) Freiherr von der Heydt, a Bavarian professor and longtime ultra nationalist. New Solidarity said the book presented a model of "total violent confrontation, involving the totality of the state and people." Sug*gesting this model might be useful in handling left-wing opponents of SDI, the NCLC newspaper urged the public to make bulk purchases "so that we can provide military, educational, and government institu*tions with the copies they need."
    The list of those who endorsed LaRouche's various public appeals included a former Frankfurt police chief, a vice president of the Bavar*ian Soldiers Association, a Kiel University professor who had worked on Hitler's uranium bomb, and various ultra rightist generals in France, Italy, and Spain. The LaRouchians also cultivated former Nazi scien*tists brought to the United States after the war as part of the Army's Operation Paperclip to work on defense projects. They included the survivors of Wernher von Braun's team who designed missiles at the Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville, Alabama.
    For decades the wartime deeds of these "old-timers" (as they call themselves) appeared to be a closed book. Former SS general von Braun became an American hero for his work on the space program. But in the late 19708, after von Braun's death, the Justice Department's Office of Special Investigations (OSI) began to examine the records of alleged Nazi war criminals in this country, with the aim of deporting the guilty ones. When the investigators nibbled at the edges of the Paper*clip crowd, the latter felt angry and betrayed. Had they not wiped the slate clean by their contributions to America's fight against commu*nism?
    LaRouche told them the slate never needed any wiping in the first place. In a 1981 EIR article praising Nazi Germany's work on jet air*craft, he distinguished between bad Nazi politicians and good Nazi scientists. "Although the Nazis commanded the German state," he said, "it was the German nation which deployed its non-Nazi resources to fight the war." The Peenemunde scientists were part of this healthy German nationalism. The crimes of the Nazi regime thus were "irrele*vant" to any judgment of their wartime role. Fusion and New Solidarity published adulatory articles about how Peenemunde had paved the way for fusion energy and SDI. It was said to represent the "classical Ger*man tradition," the path to true progress as opposed to the degenerate science of the "British."
    In November 1981 the FEF held a special dinner and awards cere*mony for the University of Colorado's Adolf Busemann, who had worked at Peenemunde. In an interview with Fusion he criticized Hitler for not giving Germany's rocket scientists enough resources to do their job properly. When he died in 1986, New Solidarity urged its readers to "reflect on his life with joy" and bemoaned the fact that so few old-timers were left to "carry on the great traditions of the German scien*tific school."
    The LaRouchians also developed close ties with Krafft A. Ehricke, a member of the von Braun team widely known for his visionary ideas on space travel. He had served in World War II as a tank platoon leader on the Eastern Front before being assigned to Peenemunde. Brought to the United States in 1947, he helped develop the Atlas rocket, Ameri*ca's first intercontinental ballistic missile. Retired and living in Lajolla, California, in the early 19805, Ehricke dreamed of colonies on the moon. He wrote articles for Fusion, served on its editorial advisory board, and spoke at FEF and Schiller Institute events. In a 1984 phone interview shortly before his death, he praised LaRouche's followers as "open, clean-cut, and positive," in contrast to Jane Fonda and the environmentalists with their "African grass hut technology." He said he had spent many an evening with his friends Lyndon and Helga LaRouche discussing Star Wars and the Soviet Union's plan to become the neo-Byzantine "Third Rome." Ehricke said he agreed with La*Rouche's assessment of the Soviet menace because of his own observa*tion of their murderous qualities during World War II.
    Another LaRouchian role model was Arthur Rudolph, the Paperclip engineer who developed NASA's Saturn V moon rocket. When he was accused by the Justice Department of working thousands of slave labor*ers to death at a V-2 factory in 1943-45, the LaRouchians and the old-timers launched a campaign to depict him as the innocent victim of a Communist plot. Yet his Nazi activities were extremely well documented. He had joined both the Nazi Party and the SA storm troopers in 1931, before Hitler came to power. After serving as an SA Ober-scharfuhrer and then as a Peenemunde engineer, he became produc*tion manager of the underground Mittelwerk factory in the Harz Moun*tains. Mittelwerk used slave labor from the nearby Dora-Nordhausen concentration camp. A third to a half of the camp's 60,000 inmates died from disease, starvation, and mistreatment. Approximately 5,000 died while working for Rudolph, who once stood by while SS men lynched twelve of his slaves. In 1945 a U.S. Army report called him a "100 percent Nazi, dangerous type" and recommended that he be interned. But after he joined Operation Paperclip a revised security report said he was "not an ardent Nazi." In the early 19805, having long retired from NASA, he was investigated by the OSI. He admitted in a 1983 interview with OSI attorneys that he had been fully aware of the inhu*man working and living conditions of the Dora-Nordhausen laborers. The following year he returned to Germany and agreed to give up his U.S. citizenship rather than face deportation proceedings. OSI prose*cutor Eli Rosenbaum later described him as having an "almost unbe*lievable callousness and disregard for human life."
    The FEF, the Schiller Institute, and the Huntsville crowd cam*paigned to restore Rudolph's citizenship. The old-timers were increas*ingly nervous because two more from their ranks, Dieter Grau and Gunther Haukohl, had come under OSI investigation for their role at Mittelwerk. The FEF warned that "hundreds" of Operation Paperclip scientists were under investigation, but this was denied by the OSI.
    An Old-Timers' Defense Fund was established, and a petition was sent to President Reagan asking him to help Rudolph. Major General J. Bruce Medaris (ret.), former chief of the U.S. Army Ordnance Com*mand, Baltic and Ukrainian émigré groups, The Spotlight, and the neo-Nazi magazine Instauration all lent their support. A delegation from Huntsville met with White House communications director Patrick Buchanan.
    Rudolph's most outspoken supporter was Friedwardt Winterberg of the FEF. A student of former Nazi physicist Erich Bagge after the war, Winterberg felt strongly that Rudolph was a victim rather than a victim-izer. He launched his own investigation and sent letters of protest to Ed Meese and other administration officials on Desert Research Institute stationery.
    He also gave an interview to The Spotlight repeating the LaRouche line that an attack on Rudolph was an attack on NATO. Winterberg also sent handwritten notes (he called them "brainteasers") to OSI prosecutor Rosenbaum. With themes such as: Israel is guilty of Nazi-style crimes, Simon Wiesenthal was a Nazi col*laborator, Zionism is a form of Nazism that has "infected" world Jewry.
    EIR published an article by General Medaris: "Stop the OSFs As*sault against German-American Scientists!" Editorials in New Solidarity described Rudolph as an American "patriot" and suggested that OSI prosecutors were Soviet agents and "traitors" who perhaps should be executed for treason. Their activities were said to be a plot to under*mine the SDI by demoralizing and deporting America's brilliant cadre of Peenemunde scientists. The Schiller Institute expanded the list of patriotic martyrs to include John (Ivan the Terrible) Demjanjuk of Treblinka fame; Karl Linnas, the butcher of the Tartu death camp; and Tscherim Soobzokov, a Waffen SS mass murderer whose attorney, Michael Dennis, was also LaRouche's attorney. (Just why auto worker Demjanjuk, construction surveyor Linnas, and Paterson, New Jersey, ward heeler Soobzokov were vital to SDI was never explained.)
    In 1985 the old-timers held their fortieth reunion at the Alabama Space and Rocket Museum beneath a giant picture of von Braun. Linda Hunt, a former Cable Network News reporter, recalled a darkened auditorium full of aging Nazis eagerly watching a slide show of the latest laser-beam weapons. She said that when the lights went on, the FEF's Marsha Freeman went to the front and delivered a tirade against the OSI to hearty applause.
    This event was mild compared with the Krafft Ehricke Memorial Conference held that year in Reston, Virginia. Sponsored by the FEF and the Schiller Institute, it united support for SDI, defense of Nazi war criminals, glorification of Peenemunde, and a messianic vision of the conquest of outer space. Fusion boasted that participants included "mil*itary, scientific, and diplomatic representatives from four continents." Former top Nazi scientist Hermann Oberth sent greetings from West Germany hailing Ehricke's "vision of' Homo Sapiens Extraterrestris,' " the New Man who would leave behind the "flaming harbors of the Earth." Speakers included Admiral Zenker and Peenemunde rocketeer Konrad Dannenberg. LaRouche gave the keynote address, entitled "Krafft Ehricke's Enduring Contribution to the Future Generations of Global and Interplanetary Civilization." Resolutions were passed call*ing on President Reagan to adopt LaRouche's crash program for SDI and halt the Justice Department's investigation of the old-timers. Since the only old-timers being probed were those who allegedly served at Mittelwerk, the FEF/Schiller Institute's hoopla about underground factories on the moon and the spirit of Peenemunde in space technol*ogy was suggestive, at the least.
    Over the next two years LaRouche assumed Krafft Ehricke's mantle. He outlined plans for cities on Mars and in the asteroid belt—an exten*sion of his earlier earthbound citybuilding schemes so reminiscent of the SS plans for Aryan colonies in occupied Russia. His prototype design for a space city was based on the geometry of cosmic spirals. He said his inspiration had come from the work of German scientists who, at the end of the war, while "awaiting reassignments" (presumably to the Redstone Arsenal) had amused themselves by drawing up plans for rebuilding the Ruhr.
    While thus dreaming of a new Ruhr on Mars, LaRouche did not forget the Green Steppes of Earth. In a speech at a September 3, 1987, EIR seminar in Munich, he claimed that when he promoted SDI in the early 19805 he had intended it only as the first stage in the most awesome revolution in the history of military technology—the develop*ment of "mass-killing" weapons using the "full range of the electro*magnetic spectrum." Such weapons would make possible the "true total war." Turned east, they could fry the entire Soviet population while leaving Soviet factories and railroads intact. LaRouche told his audience of military officers and Bavarian defense contractors that whoever develops microwave weapons first can "dominate this planet."
    NOTES TO CHAPTER TEN
    BARDWELL SPEAKS OUT: Steven Bardwell, "Third Rome Hypothesis," ICLC internal, Jan. 13, 1984.
    RECURRENT PHOTOGRAPH SUGGESTING A SWASTIKA: Fusion, May 1978, p. 40; NS, Sept. 3, 1984; NS,
    Feb. 22, 1985; Fusion, July-Aug. 1985, p. 25.
    LIVING SPACE OF THIRD REICH: Deutsche-Bergwerks Zeitung, March 8, 1942, cited in Jean-Michel
    Angebert, The Occult and the Third Reich (New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, 1974), p. 227.
    MADOLE'S SWASTIKA MYSTICISM: "NRP Leader Gives Lecture on 'The Occult & Fascism' at New York's
    Warlock Shop," The National Renaissance Bulletin, June-July-Aug. 1977.
    LAROUCHE'S GRAND DESIGN, SDI-STYLE: LHL, "Wassily Leontief Acts to Block Effective Implementation
    of the SDI," Fusion, July-Aug. 1985.
    ZENKER'S DEFENSE OF NAZI WAR CRIMINALS: Kurt P. Tauber, Beyond Eagle and Swastika: German
    Nationalism Since 1945 (Middletown, Conn.: Wesleyan University Press, 1967), Vol. I, pp. 309-10;
    Vol. II, pp. 1152-53 (nn. VIII, 173-75).
    SCHERER'S DEFENSE OF LAROUCHE: "Poison Weapons of Psychological Terror Against Lyndon LaRouche,"
    testimony of Brig. Gen. Paul-Albert Scherer at LaRouchian hearings, Sept. 1987, published in EIR,
    Sept. 25, 1987.
    NAZI SCIENTISTS ABSOLVED OF MORAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ROLE IN WORLD WAR II: LHL,"The Lesson
    of Nazi Jet Aircraft Development," EIR, Aug. 11, 1981.
    GLORIFICATION OF PEENEMUENDE: LHL, "The Lesson of Nazi Jet Aircraft Development"; Marsha Freeman,
    "The Truth About the German Rocket Scientists: The Men Who Built America's Space Program," NS,
    four-part series, May 20, 1985-June 21, 1985.
    LAROUCHE'S FRIENDSHIP WITH EHRICKE: Ken Kelley, "The Interview: The World According to Lyndon
    LaRouche," San Francisco Focus, Nov. 1986, p. 155.
    LAROUCHE PUBLICATIONS DEPICT RUDOLPH AS INNOCENT VICTIM: "ADL Spews out Smear Against Eminent
    German Scientist," NS, Apr. 1985.
    OPPOSITION TO OSI: "Stop OSI Assault on German-American Scientists!," MS, July i, 1985;
    "Schiller Meet: Drop OSI, Start Crash SDI Effort," JVS, June 24, 1985; "Disband the OSI!,"
    MS, July 1, 1985.
    LIST OF MARTYRS EXPANDS: "Demjanjuk Frame-up Flounders as New Evidence of KGB Fraud Emerges,"
    EIR, Feb. 5, 1988; "Brief Case Histories of Some Recent Examples of KGB Justice Against Some
    Other American Citizens," fact sheet of the International Human Rights Commission, c/o Schiller
    Institute, Nov. 1986.
    PROCEEDINGS OF KRAFFT EHRICKE CONFERENCE: Colonize Space! Open the Age of Reason (New York:
    New Benjamin Franklin Publishing House, 1985); see esp. LHL, "Krafft Ehricke's Enduring Contribution
    to the Future Generations of Global and Interplanetary Civilization," pp. 27-54.
    CITYBUILDING IN SPACE, COSMIC SPIRALS, INSPIRATION FROM NAZI SCIENTISTS:
    LHL, "Design of Cities in the Age of Mars Colonization," EIR, Sept. 11, 1987.
    DEATH-RAY SEMINAR IN MUNICH: LHL, "Nonlinear Radiation: The True Total War," EIR, Sept. 18, 1987.
  • **
    This is a commentary on one of our mid 1980 books during this era. The quotes from Helga about how Old Nazi's brought their music with them is priceless. This was the bizarro world we were in. I would venture to guess that very few people actually read the Hitler book. This was typical as many people gave up reading this stuff as it just was a fog.
    The idea that Hitler was actually a product of the Jews is another heirloom for the LYM Yutes to wear with honor.
  • **
    THE HITLER BOOK
    Given the LaRouche anti-Semitism etc. and the way LaRouche codes his arguments it is particularly interesting (and chilling) to read Helga Zepp LaRouche's The Hitler Book attacking Hitler as ostensibly as the agent of the "Olympian oligarchy" while at the same time omitting crucial examples of the NCLC's own occult views which fit exactly with the Nazis. For example in the 1984 book she writes:
    The special significance of India and Tibet for the ideology of the Thule Society and the Nazis centers around the term Thule. In northern European mythology, Thule signifies a prehistoric "golden age" which ended in a sudden catastrophe. With the mysticism of the Thule Society and the Nazis, but also in circles in Russia, England, and Scandinavia and in other European locations, the Thule mythos became the alpha and omega of all human history. * * * Without resorting to primary sources, the Thule myth can be approximately reconstructed as follows. In pre-historic times there existed a flourishing culture in the North Sea area (i.e. Helgoland KC). This empire of blond, blue-eyed, racially pure Aryans was led by an aristocracy with "superhuman'' cosmic powers and abilities… But then there came a natural catastrophe of cosmic proportions The Aryan Thule Empire sank into the sea..". In the course of the wanderings (the Aryans) they also settled in India and Persia, the Caucasus, and parts of Russia. Along the way, however, the Aryans relinquished some of their racial purity and so lost access to the higher knowledge and supernatural capacities of the old Aryan superman aristocracy. (P.88-9)
    Zepp-LaRouche of course makes no mention that the NCLC advanced almost exact version of this same myth with Atlantis serving as the same symbol that "Thule" did for the Nazis. With their Tilak cites the LaRouches' also pose the location of an artic "Thule" as a reality. Zepp-LaRouche also chooses to ignore the NCLC line that Ulysses (who as a Greek descended from the "Peoples of the Sea" who in turn were originally from the Aryan North Sea home Helgoland) went to Mexico. Could these omissions be simple oversights of memory?
    Zepp-LaRouche then gives us a striking description of the "Tinner elite" of the Thule society, these "golden souls" who knew how to interpret the real inner doctrine The Thule society, and later the leading Nazi circles, thought of themselves as an exclusive secret cult which had re-established its connections to the Aryan superman's knowledge. This knowledge and concomitant power, however, was reserved for only the select few who submitted to racist-Gnostic rituals and cult practices. The mission of the chosen few of the Thule Society and the Nazi leadership was to lead the Aryan people into a new Thule empire, with themselves as a new superman aristocracy.
    This Thule-Nazi mysticism was, of course, not espoused publicly; it remained the knowledge of a select few. (p. 90) Of course in The Hitler Book Zepp-LaRouche also fails to mention the NCLC's strong support of Nazi war criminals living in the United States. (The group's first attack on the Nazi hunters in the U.S. Department of Justice began as early as NS 8/14/79 NS.) By the mid-1980's the defense of Nazi war criminals became a major obsession for the group and one article defending a Nazi scientist against charges he was responsible for conditions in the Dora concentration camp (titled "The Truth About the German Rocket Scientists") blathered: "The German rocket scientists who came to the U.S. brought with them their classical education, their appreciation of, and ability to perform great music, their love of learning and their dreams." NS also wrote during the Bitburg controversy: "Perhaps not everyone who is screaming about President Reagan's intention to visit the German (actually SS -KC) cemetery at Bitburg and his hesitation to visit a concentration camp, is a Soviet agent, but that characterization isn't far off."
    CONCLUSION
    I hope I have demonstrated both the dementia and depth of LaRouche's obsession with Jews, an obsession which (as LaRouche indicates) has its origins in his childhood religious training. It is equally striking that LaRouche tells us in the 1950's his interests in such questions as the fall of -Babylon inspired his work in economics. Stripped down to its essentials LaRouche's economic views and anti-Semitism center on the view that Judaism is the unique ideological/religious justification of a merchant-usurer elite which was responsible for the fall of Babylon and whose basic outlook remains unchallenged today. This merchant-usurer elite will therefore do anything in its power (including massive genocide, nuclear war etc.) to preserve its status. Indeed it will be compelled to commit unthinkable satanic evil unless it is overthrown by revolution. For LaRouche revolution is the process through which the cancerous elite is finally exterminated. Seen in this light LaRouche's own particular brand of "Marxist" economics could easily coincide with a radical right worldview. Thus LaRouche may have believed his brand of "Marxism" finally supplied a "scientific" grounding for his parents, old-fashioned religious anti-Semitism.
 

xylm (xylm)
08-15-2005, 11:16 AM
wow, thank you xlcr4life for your last 2 posts!

 

xylm (xylm)
08-16-2005, 12:35 PM
I apologize, i accidentally cut out the first sentences to the above quote, they are:
"We now cite one related, important case here. We cite the case of that influential hoax known as the Jewish religion. The modern Jewish religion originated not with the Kingdom of Solomon or earlier, but centuries later, as a synthetic cult created by the order of the Babylonians and other non-Jews. The first step in the fashioning of the Jewish religion..."

 

xylm (xylm)
08-17-2005, 08:51 AM
Hey ttt,
At your request, i have attached proof that the infamous Rabbi Arthur Hertzberg does not endorse Larouche. He wrote this e-mail for Erica Duggan and it can be found on the www.justiceforjeremiah.com (http://www.justiceforjeremiah.com) website.
On 16 Feb 2005 an article by David Twersky appeared in the The New York Sun berating Rabbi Arthur Hertzberg
and heaping shame on him for the support and endorsement he had supposedly given to LaRouche, as claimed by
EIR, the LaRouche news gathering organ.
Rabbi Hertzberg has now issued the following denial of the false claim by LaRouche:-
Subj: Re: Justice for Jeremiah
Date: 28/02/2005 20:49:41 GMT Standard Time
From: [ email address suppressed]
To: info@jeremiahduggan.com
Dear Mrs. Duggan,
I have your email of today, 28 February 2005, and I am upset for you and outraged for both of us.
I cannot, of course, deal with the substance of your quarrel with the German police except to wish you success
in insisting that they must accept responsibility.
I am, however, outraged for both of us that someone is lying to you to suggest that I am in support of LaRouche,
and especially on the matter of the possibility that he has not abandoned the anti-Semitism of 25 years ago.
I have never said or even implied any identification with Lyndon LaRouche.
I have been interviewed a couple of times by people who printed what I had to say in one of the journals published by LaRouche,but I had no idea at the time that he had any of the history which you have, and now others, have described.
You will not find anywhere in anything I have said the slightest endorsement of him. Do not believe anybody who equates the printing of an interview with an endorsement of the medium in which the interview appeared and especially not in this case wherecharges of anti-Semitism have been levelled and I am now investigating them.
With warmest good wishes,
Yours sincerely,
Arthur Hertzberg

 

anon127 (anon127)
08-17-2005, 07:10 PM
a common practice of the larouche cult is to call someone up for an interview and lie to them that they r from some other publication.
the criminal michael billington personally admitted to me that this is one of his practices.
another trick is guide or corner the interviewee into giving an answer that roughly corresponds to what the cult wantsa to hear. when the article is written, some commentary will be added to give it a slant...and the end result is always either...the world is listening to larouche, or the world is listening to larouche but won't admit it, or the world is studying larouche very carefully (like the lym perhaps), or etc. etc. etc.

 

xylm (xylm)
08-19-2005, 03:17 PM
In an 2003 interview with Barry Nolan from 'Nite Beat' Larouche denies one of his anti-semitic quotes. Well, i got that quote from his website to refresh his memory and also expose that he tailors his messages, he's an anti-semite, and a liar:
Nolan: Let me ask you, I came across a quote that's attributed to you: "The laws of Moses and related materials in the Old Testament are not part of Israelite religious tradition, but the product of international counterinsurgency operations in 5th and 6th Century B.C. Babylon." I have no idea what that is about.
LaRouche: I don't know where you got that from. I don't know what it is.
http://larouchein2004.net/pages/interviews/2003/031024nolan.htm
Above is the link to the interview and below is his anti-semite quote from his own website:
"The essential, political effect of such religious cults is to destroy the concept of a qualitative distinction between man and the lower beasts. These were, indeed, all "greenie" religious cults. The interesting distinction of the Jewish cult, among the usual, polymorphous productions of the Babylonian "foreign office," is evolution over subsequent developments away from the polymorphous image of worship."
http://wlym.com//text/larouche_secrets.doc -(p.9)
"The function of the Babylonian creation of the Jewish religious cult was to transform the people of Israel into an advanced post-Babylonian puppet-state for Babylon's war against Tyre. Consequently, the Babylonians were constrained by the kinds of religious belief which already existed in an area strongly influenced by Phoenician culture. Hence, the ordinary sort of polymorphous image-cults might not have succeeded in that region."
http://wlym.com//text/larouche_secrets.doc (p.10)

 

kheris (kheris)
08-21-2005, 04:25 PM
Where's Steverino? He hasn't posted since the beginning of August. Did you guys scare him off? Or has Yale's new school year begun?

 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
08-21-2005, 10:42 PM
Hello kheris.
I am good and well. I find the discourse here interesting in the sense that I would find a dying plant interesting, wondering why after watering and sunlight it is still in shock and not responding.
But, otherwise, there is much work to be done in terms of watering those other plants that do respond to healthy predicates. The potential nuclear conflict with the Middle East still needs exposing and the population still needs to be organized. And yes, the new school years begins very soon. Fun times we live in. And fun, as we all know, is "doing Good, in a world that likes to do bad."
Have fun,
Steven

 

kheris (kheris)
08-22-2005, 04:11 AM
I find the discourse here interesting in the sense that I would find a dying plant interesting, wondering why after watering and sunlight it is still in shock and not responding.
I don't know Steve, most of what I read after your last visit included quotes are by the Great One himself. Seems to me you should be the one in shock. I figured that was why you weren't responding.
The potential nuclear conflict with the Middle East still needs exposing
Are you talking about LHL's screed about the Guns of August? Cheney has 9 days to live up to LHL's prediction. What will LHL do when his prediction fails to materialize? Change the date?
I checked the usual LHL sites, It looks like Beltran's Classical Drama has been tossed to the wayside in favor of Classical Music. And I was so looking forward to a traveling theater troupe named the Traveling Bombastics! I have to give Beltran props for his well known, off beat sense of humor in creating that name.
No word on a Labor Day conference. Run out of money to put it on? Or just late publicizing it? Hate to see the public deprived of an opportunity to appreciate the students' effort to wrap their voices around bel canto and polyphony. On the other hand, after that performance from Julius Caesar in February, perhaps the public is better off not having that opportunity.
By the way, polyphony's origins are pre-Renaissance as anyone familiar with Hildegard von Bingen knows. Anonymous 4 sang her work at St. Ignatius in San Francisco a few years ago, sans microphone. Medieval cathedrals had fantastic acoustics, which were replicated at St. Ignatius. Spend some time hearing the music performed as it was intended and contemplate its impact on the medieval mind and imagination. Street performances in front of strip clubs, or in meeting rooms, hardly do it justice.

 

xylm (xylm)
08-22-2005, 10:45 AM
For Steven,
Adventavit asinus Pulcher et fortissimos (The ass has arrived, so beautiful and brave)
I suppose it is hard for the Self to admit one's discourse was not heroic, but rather slavery for a racist, aristocratic fringe. LYM is good for people who have difficulty finding themselves wrong. It is good for people who want to take a leap over their 'earthly' problems and live immortally as world saviors in Larouche's fantasy world, especially if your former status was that of a dreg or you were caught in a time you needed escape. You've probably been in long search for a respectable title and an edge over others –it must've been very seductive having your existence elevated to a savior and soothsayer off a push of a button. Certainly, all it takes is a willingness to pass out pamphlets and you are already stamped a genius. Now you are more intelligible than Allan Greenspan and all the complexities of our economy can be deduced to two words: physical economy. This beats any rigorous analyis conducted in the real world! Guess what!! You don't have to go to Yale anymore!!
The world is divided by a variety of new and old ideology; countries are born, founded, and cultivated on diverse ideas. How do you expect to sweep your platonic Christianity over these established and traditionalized cultures? Oh will they accept it because it is better for them, perhaps economically better? You fool! This is the premise anybody gives to sell something. You fool! Larouche's ideology does not allow change in a changing world, how do you have the audacity to proclaim such jargon. You fool! For thinking one man is the only person in the world that can save us. You fool! It is the continuity of our mistakes and self analyses that make us grow, Larouche has neither. You fool! Indignant people are the worse liars and you would be an even bigger fool for not recognising Larouche's cynicism. You fool! What kind of a nut uses the words "perpetual nuclear warfare" and "psychosexual".

 

anon127 (anon127)
08-22-2005, 07:08 PM
"And yes, the new school years begins very soon"
why give money to yale when the org needs money for stuff like "the potential nuclear conflict with the Middle East still needs exposing and the population still needs to be organized"
still not putting yr money where yr mouth is....

 

xlcr4life (xlcr4life)
08-25-2005, 09:28 PM
A lot of good points have been raised by people here. Let us try to sort them out for both the world wide audience of this site and for Steve who has acces to the Yale research library.
Anon brings up how we impersonate people when we call them up for interviews. This trick has been going on for decades. At first, we would call up potential new money trees for larouche by doing an interview for either EIR or Fusion magazine. The hook was that we were doing a "Pro Nuclear" or "Anti environmentalist" interview with a company who was targeted by the anti nuclear people. The whole idea was to sell $396 EIR subs and $1,000 FEF corporate memberships after we do the articles. This sometimes worked and we did get to other layers of people who we wanted to fundraise from. You simply put on your fundraising hat of the day and called away. Eventually, the parties would find out about Larouche and we would call them endlessly to support Lyn's presidential capmpaigns. Most people thought we were nuts and stopped taking our calls. But, you only need a few big hooks to snag a millionaire or a few hundred thousand. We bankrupted more people by having them support Larouche than the evil oligarchical depression ever did to them.
As to journalists, we also did undercover work in security to find Larouche's enemies who were plotting against him. I have enclosed some exerpts from a Candian Banai Brith report which has some fascinating reading for everyone here.
The key case is "Larouche vs NBC". This is where one of security guys impersonated people and NBC in making phone calls. We had security do this work as very few members had any idea of our dirty tricks apparatus. One reason for this was some unintentional hillarious results of our local calls to the ADL and Banai Brith.
It seemed that during Larouche's battle with his Jewish demons, he decided that the ADL was our enemy and the Jewish members had to take the lead. We would send Jewish members to protest outside ADL offices who themselves were protesting Larouche's Holocaust fantasies.
The fun began when some of our Jewish members began to make undercover calls to local ADL and other Jewish groups like Banai Brith and the Jewish War Veterans. Our Jewish members would pile on a yiddish influenced accent and call into to report about the anti semitic materials they just read from Larouche! Our members, usually female, would read our own articles and tell them that Larouche says that "The Jews run Dope and crime. The Jews control the world through London. The Jews created Hitler". After several minutes of this, our undercover caller would then ask about upcoming plans the local ADL has to deal with Larouche and to stop him. The ADL/Banai Brith office would write all of this down and be shocked at how crazy this stuff was. In the middle of all of this, our Jewish members were now leaving the org because of what we were writing in our publications which another Jewish member would recite to rile up the ADL to say something for our tape recorders!
A typical Larouche law suit usually involves some six degree of larouche assasination plot out of London or The Knights of Malta or the Isle of Capri. We then filed a law suit and started another money mobilization. During the trials, our lunacy and shenanigans would be exposed, then there would be no more coverage of it in the briefing.
I once read some web post about how we sued a bank in NJ for some type of action against our accounts. We then wrote endless articles about how the bank was part of an international plot against Larouche. (How does Lyn ALWAYS seem to find banks, lawyers, printers, hotels etc who are always part of a plot against him?) During the discovery phase, some of our CC tricks and bookeeping fun was untangled and offshore accounts came out. The case became real quiet to the members who never read the proceedings.
In many of our legal cases, the explanation given to us in a briefing was that our own lawyers were now on the payroll of the oligarchy! One of our Virginia lawyers is now seen weekly on Pat Robertson's TV network.
Steve, look this up
http://justiceforjeremiah.com/larouche_network_canada.html
Here is an exerpt for you and others.


  • 7A. LaRouche and the Media
    LaRouche and his followers make it a practice to deny much of what is said about then in the media. A notion of the response of LaRouche followers to what they perceive as negative coverage can be gleaned from the following incidents .
    - Dennis King, a New York journalist who has written several articles about LaRouche. has said in court documents that his apartment building was posted with flyers saying he is a homosexual, and that he has received 500 abusive or hang-up calls at home.(41)
    - In 1983. the newsmagazine U.S. News and World Report secured a federal court injunction against LaRouche s Campaigner Publications for impersonating a U.S. News reporter. (42)
    - In May 1986, a LaRouche follower made his way into the country home of Katharine Graham, chairwoman of the Washington Post Co., and locked around the upstairs bathroom where her husband Philip's body was found after he committed suicide in 1963. (43)
    - Jon Prestage, who was a reporter for the Manchester Union-Leader in 1980 in New Hampshire, recalled on NEC-TV's First Camera (March 14. 1984):
    "He (Lyndon LaRouche) came into the paper with about 12 people: bodyguards, his wife and what not. And I believe they were carrying some guns and we had to make them leave their guns downstairs. During that interview, they told me that there were certain things I could not say in ray stories, and of course that piqued my curiosity. And he told me that he would make it very painful for me if I wrote certain things. And I asked him 'well, what do you mean by painful?' And he kind of chuckled with the rest of the people there and said 'we have ways of making it painful beyond lawsuits.' We had three cats, and, on successive days following the articles, the cats were found on my doorstep, dead."
    Once articles are written and published, LaRouche 's groups often sue. However, to our knowledge, they have never won a lawsuit in North America. Here are some

    examples:
    In 1979, the LaRouche organization filed a $25 million suit against the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai Brith, alleging that ADL had labelled the defendants as anti-Semitic, charging defamation, invasion of privacy and assault.
    But in 1980, the Supreme Court of New York agreed with the ADL that the publications of LaRouche *s U.S. Labor Party could be qualified as anti-Semitic. (44) Judge Michael Dontzin of the New York Supreme Court ruled that: "Upon consideration of the voluminous] evidence presented to the court, it is clear that ADL's characterization of plaintiffs as anti-Semitic constitutes! fair comment. Plaintiffs have continuously expressed highly critical views about prominent Jewish figures, families and organizations, such as ADL and B'nai Brith and have connected them with plaintiffs* critical views on Zionism, Zionists, Mid-East foreign policy and international monetary policies."
    A documentary on the NBC network show First Camera had alleged that LaRouche and his followers are anti-Semitic, have close contacts in the U.S. defense establishment and have well-organized fundraising practices. After the program aired, LaRouche launched a $150 million libel suit against NEC, and the Anti -Defamation League, which he lost. LaRouche claimed that he was defamed when an Anti -Defamation League official described him as an "anti-Semite" and a "small-time Hitler" on the program. (45)
    LaRouche also lost an NBC countersuit, which alleged that LaRouche followers tried to sabotage a scheduled interview with Democratic Senator Daniel Moynihan by impersonating an NBC employee and a Senate aide. NBC was awarded $200,000 in damages, which was eventually paid by LaRouche. LaRouche said during the trial that anyone who believed the NBC broadcasts was "crazy," "insane" or "a total illiterate and mental case." (46)
    In fall 1986, the Anti-Defamation League received a check for $1,178.86 from LaRouche, a court-ordered payment to cover out of pocket expenses incurred by ADL during the failed libel suit. In October, the Supreme Court rejected an appeal of the original lower court decision, clearing the way for the payment. (47)
    Several other law suits against the media hive been launched: For example, in 1985, LaRouche *s National Democratic Policy Committee filed a $1 million lawsuit against the Atlanta Constitution and Atlanta Journal-Constitution accusing them of a campaign of threats

    and intimidation against the organization and its candidates during Atlanta's local election, A federal judge dismissed the suit.
    43. "LaRouche's Tangled Web." Time. op. cit., p. 35. See also "Critics of LaRouche group hassled, ex-associates say." The Washington Post. Jan. 14. 1985. "Is Lyndon LaRouche using your name? How LaRouchians masquerade as journalists to gain information," by Patricia Lynch, Columbia Journalism Review. March-April 1985.
    44. ADL FACTS. The LaRouche Network: A Political Cult. Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith/ Civil Rights Division, Spring 1982/Vol.27, No. 2, p. 9.
    45. "LaRouche is Liable." The Jewish Monthly. January 1987 p. 45.
    46. "Fascists on the edge of respectability," by Brendan Weston, Melinda Wittstock and Federico Hidalgo. The McGill Daily. April 11. 1935.
    47. "LaRouche is Liable." p. 45.
    43. "Letting LaRouche Off Easy," by Barbara Matusow, Washington Journalism Review. November 1986. p. 47.
    49. Ibid, p. 46.
    50. ADL Special Report, op. cit. p. 28.

  • Now here some thing interesting for you Steve. Read this exerpt about our promissary note hustle and notice who the Presidente of Caucus Distributers Incorporated (CDI) is in the May 20, 1986 letter from CDI..
    Why it is none other than the current LYM Glendale office NC!
    We were never told about the charges, but about how the Bank of Nova Scotia was part of an international elite who want to stop Larouche.
    Steve, what you should know about this appendix is that most of the members did not know about this. We were too busy saving humanity and stopping nuclear war. I will address that next time for you as well. As members began to find this stuff out, they left. The remaining people were whipped into more around the clock hysteria as a side show.
    Read the appendix and ask questions when you are in Glendale for a conference. You have to know this because you will be carrying the torch of larouche at a Yale card table shrine. There is a Princeton mathematics drop out who will be sent to persuade you that your future belongs not in a Yale classroom, but, at a card table shrine near the student union holding a Larouche torch.
    Next time I will tell you about how we handled Gays and Nuclear war in the org.
    xlcr4life@hotmail.com
    When you read the article, it seems to have been scanned and some of the wording and numbers may be off. 1983 may show up as 1933. The dollar amounts should be correct though. And JPR was the boss of the CDI empire in the incorporation files.

  • APPENDIX B :
    Sept. 4. 1984
    • •
    The Bank of Nova Scotia
    VISA CENTER
    P.0. Box 4100
    Postal Stn. "A"
    TORONTO. Ontario
    RE VISA ACCOUNT # 4
    ATTENTION: Kelly Fray - CUSTOMER RELATIONS DEPT.
    12 SEP 1984 UNIT E
    Dear Kelly: ]
    As per our conversation of Aug. 31, I wish to advise that I have had two unauthorized charges on my Visa card.
    The first appeared on my June statement as outlined:

    June 15 002 $529.20 * Campaigner Publication New York
    Amount $400.00 U.S. Dollars
    The second appeared on my July statement as outlined:
    July 27 002 $328.50 Campaigner Publication New York
    Amount $250.00 U.S. Dollars
    After receiving my June statement, I called your customer relations department to report the June 15th transaction, indicating that it was indeed fraudulent. In order to follow up on who was making these unauthorized charges against my Visa I telephoned the Campaigner Publication firm in New York the same day - July 24th. I spoke to a Mr. Scott Thomson who informed me he was with security staff. I endeavored to question him as to what these charges were for, who authorized them etc. - and he indicated that perhaps I had made a contribution at some U.S. airport and forgotten it. I was not able to get a straight answer on the question, and found this firm to be very unco-operative. I asked them to check into the situation, and call me back - no call was received.
    The Campaigner Publication telephone # It is (212) 247-8820.
    Cont'd

    The Bank of Nova Secotia
    VISA CENTER
    I was amazed to find another charge against my Visa close to the date of my inquiry call. At the time of the first charge; I was in Ottawa Ontario attending -a memorial service for my deceased mother.
    I was not in any U.S. airport during the time that these charges were placed against my Visa.
    These charges are fraudulent - I have not authorized this firm or any such firm from the U.S. - either by telephone authorization, by mail, or by any other means to allow 'charges against my Visa.
    I have not been able to ascertain what these charges pertain to - and I am concerned that this continues. Therefore I am returning my two Visa cards, in order that this account may be closed forthwith.
    My making the miminum due payment of $1,062.50 I do not accept responsibility for these documented unauthorized charges.
    In my contact with this firm in the U.S. I found them to be very evasive, and they did not appear to care that the charges were not proper.
    I would hope that this matter will be corrected. I have had a Scotiabank Visa for many years, and have not encountered any problems in the past. I trust that we can sort this matter out.
    Thank-you for your assistance.

    Sincerely yours.
    MONTY POOLE

    Campaigner publications Inc.,
    - and -
    Caucus Distributors Inc., WITHOUT PREJUDICE
    2nd Floor,
    4507 North Kedzie Avenue,
    Chicago, Illinois.
    U.S.A.. . 60625
    ATTENTION: Mr. Ronald R. Bettag
    Dear Sirs:
    Re: Richard M. Proctor
    . Promissory Notes
    ^
    We have been consulted by Mr. Richard M. Proctor with respect to certain Promissory Notes which Caucus Distributors Inc. and Campaigner Publications Inc. gave to Mr. Proctor between July 9th, 1984 end November 2nd 1984, copies of which ere enclosed for your easy reference.
    We understand that you have had conversations with both Mr. Proctor end Mr. Killick and that on numerous occasions you have repeatedly promised to forward funds to begin to retire the Promissory Notes, all of which are past due. To date none of These promises have been honoured and no funds have been received.
    We enclose a schedule which indicates that the total balance outstanding on the Promissory Notes to be in the sun of $106,708 U.S. plus interest front august 31st, 1985
    .……/ 2
    EXHIBIT "F"

    Campaigner Publications Inc.
    - and –
    Caucus Distriubutions Inc.
    - 2 - September 26th 1985
    In view of the length of time that these Notes have been outstanding, the repeated demands that have been made for payment and the unfulfilled promises, we have been instructed by Mr. Proctor to make formal demand for payment in full of all monies due pursuant to the promissory Notes, which monies are to be received in our hands in form of a bank draft payable to Bennett Jones not later than October 3rd, 1985.
    We have consulted with Mr. Michael Wagner of the law firm of Beker and McKenzie in Chicago and would advise that we will be instructing him to commence whatever action may be necessary to collect this outstanding indebtedness in the event funds are not in our hands by October 3rd, 1985.
    We are sure that you will want to avoid the increased costs and attendant embarrassment that such action would cause and therefore look forward to receiving funds by return.
    G.D.T
    Cacus Distribution Inc. / P.O. Box I234. Leesburg. VA 22075
    January 17, 1986
    Baker and McKenzie
    1?0 East Randolph Drive
    Suite # 2700
    Chicago, Illinois 60501.
    Attention: Mike Wagner
    Dear Mr. Wagner:
    In a telephone conversation with Mr. Richard Proctor on January 12, 1986, the critical political and- economic nature of the next six months was discussed. The crucial political battles include the necessary immediate defeat of the Gramm/Rudman bill in the United States and the replacement of the present International Monetary Fund austerity policy to pay the debt with a LaRouche modeled reorganization of the debt itself. Only such a reorganization of the international debt burden and an indepth ??biAimation of American industrial capabilities will deter the Soviets from their present surrogate warfare tat\ is using Libyan, Syrian and Mossad terrorism. A terrorism designed to wreck the Western Alliance prior to their dull ???:-. -.•.tult capabilities being unleashed in 1988.
    The Soviets understand two crucial aspects of the present international situation 1) That the Middle East and Mediterranean Sea th????rs, the weakest flanks of the West, can be used to break the U.S. role as a superpower in the world centrally; and 2) that under the present crisis conditions -- economic, military, medical and moral — the LaRouche 1986 candidates' movement can effectively change the entire face of American policies within the next six months. In light of this, both the 's???cts and the LaRouche forces are fully mobilized; the U.S. v???^ula:ion must be awakened to the fight.
    In this connection we discussed with Mr. Proctor his present financial situation and the status of his past loans to this political effort. In short, I suggested that; while the present, overdue ???led payments rotating twenty thousand dollars ($20,000) ????? op immediately, the remainder of the payments be places in a moratorium for six months. Or alternatively, that portion of the notes themselves be ??nized and updated.
    page 2.-
    This discussion would necessarily include the following points- 1) the computation of the additional interest due to date 2) the determination of a ratio regarding principal and interest on both the amount already repaid and future amounts to be repaid; and 3) the terms of the note itself in the event that this is the final outcome of our discussion. For example, in any new note the interest rate should be reduced by approximately one half.
    This decision is not primarily financial or legal, but rather political in nature. Mr. Proctor agreed to consider the matter and suggested that I put such a proposal in written form, forwarding it to you and the legal staff.
    Sincerely,
    Ronald Bettag
    GAZETTE PROBE
    P.O. Box 366 - Place d'Armes
    MONTREAL, Que.
    H2Y 3R8
    Dear Sir:
    In January 1985 I paid $30.00 for a subscription to "Nouvelle Solidarite" which I have been receiving every week since. My cheque was made out to "Parti pour la Republique du Canada". I checked with the bank and there is no endorsement signature - only a rubber stamp "Parti pour la republique du Canada. .
    Several weeks later, I started getting calls explaining the purpose of this cause which was mostly to fight nuclear war. And invitations to attend meetings, one in particular at Theatre Saint Denis in April which I did not attend. The calls kept coming regularly, always from Gilles Gervais and always asking for a donation or a loan. Finally in May , the 4th, Mr. Gervias called from New York and said they were organizing the biggest protest walk on Washington against nuclear war and could I let him have $1,000. as a loan - for one year, interest 14% payable every 3 months.
    I can't explain or start to understand what made me give him my credit card number and O.K. this amount, in U.S. Funds = $1,382.50 CAN. But I did. When I received my Visa bill, Caucus Dist. Inc. sounded like merchandise so I phoned Visa. I was told that it was impossible that he could have had cash for that amount - they sent me copy of the trans-action. (encl).
    Of course he had given me his phone number - 737 -2226 in Montreal so I used it. The phone was not registered in his name, it was a friend. Gilles was not there but he would call me within 30 minutes. Having no news, I called again but this number was no longer in use. I was told by the Protection du Consommateur that in fact they had a new listing for that number, on Darlington, but could not give it to me .
    Then I tried calling the number given on page 2 of Nouvelle Solidarite (encl.) - the receptionist says she vas told not to answer calls for this number any more.
    In the meantime, I had to pay the bill and had to waft for a tern deposit to come due so I borrowed the amount from my bank with interest in the amount of $65.01.
    Total $1,447.51 is a lot of money to give to this turkey. I don't know that anything can be done in a case like this but you are my only hope. I tried to make this clear and as short as possible it all adds up to mea culpa all the way.
    If you wish to reach me my number at the office is . .. ....-and I would appreciate it very much if you call as early as possible around 9 a.m. - my boss hates personal calls.
    Thank you for reading this and anything else you may be able to do.
    Sincerely,
    Marge Bainclair
    CDI
    Caucus Distributors, Inc. • p.o.box 748 Attn: ccac Radio City Station New York. New York 10101
  • '
    May 20. 1986
    Dear Supporter:
    Our records show that you have sent funds to Caucus Distributors, Inc. (CDl)
    If you have not been repaid according to schedule, you may be angry. You have a right to be angry. But you should not be angry at CDI. You should be angry at the people who have made it impossible for us to repay your loan as scheduled.
    CDI and other organizations associated with Lyndon H. LaRouche have been targeted for intensive financial warfare since the end of the 1984 election campaign. Those of us associated with Mr. LaRouche have seen financial warfare thrown at us since 1977-78. But starting at the end of October 1984, First Fidelity Bank of New Jersey, now shown to be a mob-linked bank, seized $200, 000 of LaRouche campaign funds, in conjunction with the U.S. Attorney in Boston and the Boston FBI office. That U.S. Attorney in Boston, William Weld, has become notorious for his coverup of the S2 billion drug-money-laundering scandal involving the Bank of Boston and Swiss banks in which Weld has a direct family financial interest.
    The LaRouche campaign committees have already won a couple of major court victories in their suit against First Fidelity, including a ruling by the court that First Fidelity illegally seized funds belonging to Independent Democrats for LaRouche.
    Meanwhile, Weld opened up a grand jury investigation of CDI and other organizations. It is now over I8 months since that grand jury investigation began, and it is clear that its purpose was to try to drain CDI and other organizations financially through heavy legal fees and fines. There of course have not been any indictments.
    However, the Eastern Establishment news media, headed by NBC, the New York Times, the Washington Post, and AP, have been leaking alleged "findings" of the grand jury, in order to try to frighten contributors and supporters. They have been joined by the terrorist-linked, gangster-protection racket known as the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) , and by drug pushers such as
    (over )

    Dennis King — the writer for the pro-drug High Times magazine. In -conjunction with these forces, AP has, deployed its reporter William Welch in an extortion racket against supporters of LaRouche who have made contributions to CDI and other organizations,
    The direct threats made to contributors, interference with contributions by banks, and the thousands of lying news articles that have appeared around the country, have had a significant impact on our fundraising. We are fighting back by organizing a nationwide-boycott of NBC, by going after the ADL's tax-exempt status, and by gathering the evidence to put these criminals and extortionists in jail.
    If you have been contacted by anyone telling you that "LaRouche is about to be indicted," or, "LaRouche preys on old people," or similar such lies, please let us know about it.
    If you have a loan outstanding, we ask that you forgive the loan, or, at a minimum, extend the terms of the loan so that we can continue the important and essential work we are doing.
    In the past few weeks since the Illinois elections, we have transformed U.S. politics, and LaRouche has become a household word. Your previous financial support, enabling us to publish and distribute our publications, helped to lay the basis for the Illinois victory and more which are to come.
    We are grateful for your past support, and we ask for your continued support and cooperation.
    Yours truly ,
    J. Philip Rubinstein
    President
    Appendix C
    The LaRouche Network
    Organizations
    Caucus Distributors. Inc. - Caucus Distributors, Inc.. was established in December 1981 in New York, NY, under the state's not-for-profit corporation law "to promote and encourage the political (sic) and ideas and beliefs fostered by the International Caucus of labor Committees and other organizations advocating the same ideas and beliefs." The New York-based corporation's purpose also has been "to distribute to the general public, sell and obtain subscriptions to publications specifically dedicated to the political ideas and beliefs fostered by the International Caucus of Labor Committees and other organizations." Caucus Distributors is the distributor of Executive intelligence Review (EIR).
 

stevengrendon (stevengrendon)
08-26-2005, 03:25 AM
Please do not be frustrated with my reply, if it may not be what you had planned for me to concede.
Rather, I would like to take the opportunity here to give my counter-thesis, an antithesis it would seem, by nature and not by my design, which should reveal my best approximation of a truthful reality concerning the current subject.
I would like to come back to your "evidence," which is many, a bit later, after I address my critical concern. So for now, please bear with an analysis of the evidence from a different standpoint and a different method.
What strikes me, as I examine the entire situation as a whole, is the fact that Mr. Curtis is a direct benefactor of his claims and maintains a direct one-on-one, "he vs. she" nominal relationship with Mr. LaRouche and many of his associates.
In fact, at a glance, I noticed a particular passage that glared back at me …"unless you believe the testimony of Charlie Tate and Chris Curtis, you can't convict these people honestly and fairly, and you can't give them the fair trial and the fair outcome that they are really entitled to." (Railroad! Pg. 473)
That quote is sourced from the book "Railroad! U.S.A. vs. Lyndon LaRouche, et al.," from a printed transcript of Brian Gettings' closing argument, the defense attorney for William Wertz.
Mr. Curtis, was the cracking of your testimony singled out by the defense as being critical in revealing a conspiracy to falsely accuse Mr. LaRouche and his associates of themselves being fraudulent conspirators? Are they accusing you of perjury?
If so, does this mean that you are legally bound to your key testimony in the conviction, to this day?
Furthermore, the Railroad! Book claims a broader role for you, your role in being the turncoat who becomes trained by the prosecution and corroborates the corporate-controlled media's allegations. The book put it this way: "What nearly all the U.S. media and prosecutors have said about LaRouche et al. during the past dozen years, has no correspondence to reality, but both are consistent with the Goebbels-like, psychotic rantings of King's book." "…King's book merely relates the guidelines of definition of LaRouche which Cherne's circles dictated simultaneously to major news media channels and prosecutorial task forces." (Railroad! Pg. xl)
Below are a few excerpts from sources that, in my judgment, should be visited, as they put Mr. Curtis' intentions here in jeopardy if he is not allowed to address them, on the record, as you in kind wish others to defend Mr. LaRouche's actions.
You have shared with us much of your "history" with Mr. LaRouche's organizations. Please share with us your role, from leaving the organization through after the prosecution, addressing the allegations that I have been directed to. I mean not to pry into your private life, not to challenge you personally, but the integrity of your damning public testimony depends upon it.
Respectfully,
Steven
Here are the excerpts:
"A crucial element of the prosecution's case, and especially for the prosecution's characterization of LaRouche as the authoritarian dictator of the alleged conspiracy, was the testimony of former members of the NCLC: Charles Tate, Chris Curtis, Vera Cronk, Steve Bardwell and Pam Goldman. Their malicious, lying testimony demonstrated that a conspiracy did indeed exist -- namely on the part of those who had orchestrated the indictments and legal harassment of the defendants! It was quite clear that these witnesses were motivated by personal animosity toward LaRouche, and had possibly been pressured to testify by promiss of avoiding prosecution themselves. It became clear that the witnesses had been coached by representatives of the prosecution in repeated intensive sessions in order to fit their testimony to the prosecution's case.
An unbiased court could only dismiss these witnesses' testimony as worthless. The final blow to their credibility was delivered when witnesses Steve Bardwell and Charles Tate were forced to confirm descriptions of a Halloween Party held on October 31, 1986, in which former NCLC members celebrated the huge FBI raid, earlier that month, on the offices of LaRouche-associated organizations." (another source circulating)
"While most statements by the ex-members were discredited by their obvious vindictive intent, Charles Tate and Chris Curtis entangled themselves in serious contradictions. Curtis had earlier testified, in the Boston case, that LaRouche associates had acted in good faith and he had no knowledge of an intention not to repay debts. Now, in Alexandria, he claimed that non- repayment had been the general policy. Especially under cross examination, Curtis revealed himself to be an obedient instrument of the prosecution. His coaching for testimony had clearly been much more than the originally acknowledged 15 hours of consultation with U.S. government officials. Curtis admitted that since leaving the NCLC he had applied for employment to 12 different government agencies, including the CIA. It emerged that in the course of his attempts to secure employment, Curtis had successively changed his line on LaRouche and his associates, in the direction of increasingly damaging statements. Tate revealed himself as a notorious liar, admitting that he had lied to LaRouche in a number of written reports. He had spent the equivalent of two weeks preparing his testimony under the supervision of various government agents, including representatives of the prosecution." (ibid)
"One witness, former LaRouche associate Chris Curtis, was ``deprogrammed--i.e., brainwashed--by Cult Awareness Network kidnapper Galen Kelly and former Loudoun County (Va.) Sheriff's Deputy Donald Moore. Both Moore and Kelly have since served federal prison sentences for a CAN-related kidnapping." (EIR)
"1. In response to defense pre-trial requests, the U.S. government denied that its agents coached witnesses to lie (2255 Appendix 30).
FACT: In October 1990, Virginia State Police Agent C.D. Bryant, who interviewed witnesses jointly with FBI agents, admitted under oath that he lied to political supporters of LaRouche in order to convince them that they were victims of crime (2255 Appendices 80-82).
2. In response to defense pre-trial requests, the U.S. government denied it used threats and promises of rewards to secure testimony of ``insider
witnesses (2255 Appendix 30, request 105; 2255 Appendix 60).
FACT: Key prosecution ``insider witnesses Chris Curtis and Wayne Hintz were granted formal and informal immunity from prosecution. Prosecutor John Markham and Deputy Don Moore helped secure Curtis's admission into George Mason Law School (2255 Appendices 107-119).
3. In a pre-trial motion, the defense requested any evidence that prosecution witnesses had been ``deprogrammed
(2255 Appendix 30). The government did not respond.
FACT: In an FBI wire-tap, dated July 7-8, 1992, Deputy Moore and CAN member Galen Kelly stated they ``deprogrammed Curtis before his testimony at trial (Motion to Take Judicial Notice)." (EIR)
"The lead prosecution witness, Chris Curtis, a former LaRouche associate, was ``deprogrammed
by professional deprogrammers before he took the witness stand. Such brainwashing, the petitions demonstrate, rendered unreliable anything Curtis said. Curtis plotted with prosecutors to forever bury an immunity agreement insuring that he would never be prosecuted but would, in fact, go to law school under prosecutorial sponsorship. Prosecutors and Curtis discussed the fact that disclosure of this agreement would undermine Curtis's credibility. Instead prosecutors presented Curtis to the jury as a conscience-stricken truth teller who was willing to ``let the chips fall where they may.''
Curtis was also involved, with full knowledge of the prosecution, in a plot to kidnap Lewis du Pont Smith, a member of the LaRouche movement and a witness at the Gallagher/Hecht trial. He conducted surveillance of Smith for kidnappers Galen Kelly and Don Moore." (Boyd)

 

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