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FACTNET.ORG FORUM: LaRouche Continued - Page 2

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kheris
06-09-2007, 04:24 AM
Ask me something of more credence that question is one I dont think will aid beltran who is doing good work here lyn personally put beltran in this position because of beltran's particular capability and connection to the classical method.
Actually, the question wasn't asked to aid Beltran, since he hardly needs help. Lyn put Beltran in charge of the drama workshops because he happens to be the only classically trained actor in the organization, having signed on in 2001 with Harley as his recruiter. Name me one other person in the organization who has the relevant background? Harley brought Beltran to the 2001 President's Day conference to showcase that background and leverage it into his talk.
Which leads to another question; Beltran suggested long ago that a traveling theater troupe (whimsically called The Traveling Bombasts) would be put on the road to aid in organizing people. Nothing since then besides more workshops. One does wonder when, if ever, all this 'work' Beltran is doing will see the light of day. Or is it simply to develop the LYMers themselves?
That is all that needs espousing... wait how do you know of Harley Schlanger and what was he insulting you about a post that you had talked about so long ago in old posts, or am I mistaken?
Harley emailed me after I posted an entry at my website about Lyn. Harley made a point of suggesting that I might have some brains, but in his view I was wasting them since I didn't 'get' Lyn. Yes, he was insulting, but I have read enough of his work to believe that he is a True Believer about Lyn's place in history, no matter how overblown that concept may be.

 

shadok
06-09-2007, 04:35 AM
Judaism as a "Babylonian hoax"
Ok, the "cut & paster" strikes back...
and for the record (this is from LL in "The secrets known only to the Inner Elites" pp11-12):
"We now cite one related, important case here. We cite the case of that influential hoax known as the Jewish religion.
The modern Jewish religion originated not with the Kingdom of Solomon or earlier, but centuries later, as a synthetic cult created by the order of the Babylonians and other non-Jews. The first step in the fashioning of the Jewish religion was based on piecing together scraps of Mesopotamian legends (and anti-Phoenician and anti-Egyptian propaganda), with odd pieces of actual Babylonian and other history added to the mixture. The latter infusion gave a credible calendar to the otherwise fraudulent concoction. This original Mesopotamian hoax was reworked repeatedly, always under the supervision of non-Jews, with the basic structure of the Old Testament hoax completed during the Persian Empire period.
This hoax was first introduced into European languages about 230 BC, on the recommendation of the same Aristotelian Peripatetics who contrived the exotic cults of Ptolemaic Egypt, and on orders from the Ptolemies. That edition. of the "Seventy," is otherwise notable for the fact that it was produced in a variety of demotic Greek peculiar to such locations as the waterfront brothels of Egypt.
Later, when Philo of Alexandria attempted to develop a Platonic version of Judaism (the roots of the later Sephardic tradition of Maimonides and Avencibrol), Philo avoided, for obvious political reasons, simply throwing out the mess before him. He attempted to circumvent the problem by the rabbinical, Pharasaical ruse of the "commentary" tolerating the text while fundamentally altering the reading to be attributed to it.
The Christian Apostles, confronted with the same general problem, rid Christianity of the worst implications of the Old Testament by emphasizing the "Dispensation of Christ," and warning against the dangers of the circoncision." Christ had freed man from such barbarisms as the Old Testament."
Alfred Rosenberg would have been delighted!
LL has always considered modern Judaism was "saved" thanks to some "good" platonist/christian (and german) influences. That s how you have to understand his stance in favor of Philo, Maimonid or the "Yiddish renaissance". He supports them because they were "enlightened" by this superior platonist/Christian culture, never on its own merits. That s why he tolerates jewish members in his organization; as long as they are enlightened by Him... But if any of these jewish members start questioning his authority, they will soon enough be attacked as "Old Testament Jews"... He still considers the Old Testament as a Babylonian hoax.
LL could write something connecting (thanks to the "hereditary principle") the Synarchist Jewish bankers (aka Rohatyn/ Al Gore gang) to their "babylonian ancestors". Then he could develop a whole theory that would connect the "Mesopotamian usurers" to their "environmentalist" cults (aka Astarte/Ishtar etc) and then... back to the "environmentalist" nazis and Malthus and to the present "Whore of Babylon" (aka the Queen of England) and her "environmentalist (nazi) usurers" synarchist Rohatyn and Gore.... See? I could write his next memo!

 

timefor_truth
06-09-2007, 05:24 AM
Part two of Hey howie
Know what was funny? When Newton's Calculus was ruled superior in Britain they used that while the rest of Europe was convinced Leibniz was the way to go. For 30 years Britain did not make any contributions at all to science! But the rest of Europe flourished! This was right after the royal society,review board that oversaw the whole controversy over the Calculus, came to that famous conclusion. We now know that Isaac Newton sat at the head of the board that made that decision.

So why did you not get taught any of this in school? Why were you taught about the discovery of gravity comming from an apple falling on some oblivious siht head?
No not howie! Newton! yall C'mon that was a low blow yall!
Is it because Larouche is lying!
Yes my good friend The reductionist (individuals who dont care about the discoveries just the equations that can be used to calculate the effects of the discoveries) rodent Isaac Newton was a fraud!
This of course is going to cause alarmists from all over to revolt but John Maynard Kaynes documents the fraud of Isaac Newton. At the same time Newton was supposed to have been making his discoveries, his journals won over in an auction by John Maynard Kaynes, showed time conflicts with when he allegedly made breakthroughs in the aforementioned fields, and the work he was doing in the occult. Yes Newton was a dire mystic! Mixing Alchemical potions to turn rocks into Gold!
Thats Science!
Or Sorcery I forget which is which howie can you help me?!
But he's lying so we can ignore Larouche!
Now Larouche says kepler's method of approach was understood by Leibniz and furthered is he wrong, see what Leibniz says about Kepler in the biography!
Larouche also said Newton was a fraud, and it was not only that he had plagarized heavily from Kepler but that the inverse square law falls apart in the real universe!
Was he right! or is he a liar!
Ok howie If you dont get it by now it is going to take work to say Larouche is wrong.
This is why personal anecdotes about Harley Schlanger increasing the width of your arsecrack are not going to fly!
None of us even know if that was Harley, it could have been your older brother, or a wayard priest or even a Transsexual mom.
All we see is a gay name like howie and we cant help but think about how that could be a target in the real world!
So stick to what can be demonstrated!
Touche!

 

xlcr4life
06-09-2007, 05:27 AM
Wow! I feel like I am in the middle of a Tent show revival of a convicted preacher. All I need next is to see TforT fall backward as Harley catches him as the audience yells:
"Praise the Lyn"
Eaglebeak has a good point. For kids in college who find this thread and wonder about the LYM, this is a like a scared straight video about prison life. All that was requested was a comment about Lyn and the Chris White brainwashing hoax. Nothing more. I hear more name dropping of famous people than cable news converage of Paris Hilton going back to jail in LA.
Brilliant satire, reminds me of the interview Max and Leo do with Franz Liebkind, the unbalanced Nazi writer in Mel Brook's "Spring Time for Hitler" movie. This is our own version of "Spring Time for Larouche".
For the next web cast the LYM needs to run a crawler under Lyn as he speaks which says:
"Don't be stupid, be a smarty / Come and join the Larouche Party!"

You folks do know that Lyn viewed that movie as an example of his version of capitalism?
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

charltonrom
06-09-2007, 05:50 AM
Excellent howie my man--- Lyn hoist on his own petard.
Not that it will do much good for Truth Timee, he/she/it is too far gone, but it makes for a few more chuckles:
can you in any way demonstrate, or show me original source work documentation so as to support any claim based on actually re-discovering how lyndon Larouche came to think and analyze the way he does today?

  • See howie's post above. His own words! He is at times apparently sincere but also a deleriously florid paranoiac demagogue who endlessly propels new rhetorical projecta. I have a phrase for it: CME, Continuous Methane Emission.
    Many here still believe that Lyn is a multitude of things, that he is well a cult owner, a this or that! It is believe me a good initial position to be in. BUT ONLY IF YOU USE THAT TO PROVE LYN WRONG IN A NON SUBJECTIVE WAY THAT ALL OF US HERE CAN FOLLOW AND REACH THE SAME CONCLUSION AS WELL.
  • If you are real, which we all still rather doubt, your standards of proof and logic are so utterly laughable and transparently cult-reinforcing that no evidence would be likely to impact your degraded mindstate. Have you no shame? You are an embarassment to the LYM, even by their sketchy standards.
    Newton had claimed Kepler's discoveries for his own.
  • He did no such thing. You are a gibbering, squawking parrot. The entire organization and the LYM are an embarassment to historians of the period. Read one source besides Bruce and Lyn. Their take is ignorant and paranoid, if at least original. Yours is merely a hilarious restatement, doubly ignorant since you not only know nothing about the period but also rely on authorities who know nothing or have an agenda.
    For how can you explain the correspondence from Kepler to Gallileo in "The Life and Letters of Johannes Kepler"? Is this a fluke in history?
  • No. Why would it be? Oh I know, because in the letters, Kepler revealed to Galileo that Copernicus was right! Then Galileo took this up! And all because of the Venetians! Paolo Sarpi TOLD Galileo to do it!!!
 

timefor_truth
06-09-2007, 05:53 AM
1st larouchies are these people then were those people when the in your face rambunctiousness is not of the dour color of how you have painted the lym what will your readership think?
Well the reason I dont dialogue with you is because it can accomplish nothing!
Though not satan I rather dont revel discussion with Beelzebub either!

 

sancho
06-09-2007, 06:23 AM
I subscribe to eaglebeak's guess that Truth guy is a troll. But if he is as truly demented as he appears, he can easily redeem himself by CLEARLY explaining
(1) what LaRouche's method is, and what makes it distinctive;
(2) what LaRouche's "fundamental discovery" is.
These are very simple questions, and if Truth guy wants genuine dialogue there can be no better starting point to a discussion on these esoteric matters than a CLEAR response to each of these questions. This is the third time I am asking for clarification, and each time Truth guy just starts throwing names around rather than ideas. We cannot refute NAMES, but only CONCEPTS. (Perhaps that is part of Lyn's method, to evade ideas as much as possible and to personalize issues so that they cannot be easily addressed by the use of reason.)
If you don't reply clearly this time to what are questions fundamental to your position, then I will know that either this is all a brilliant hoax or you are in serious need of medical intervention.
In any event, I will continue to enjoy the show!

 

eaglebeak
06-09-2007, 06:25 AM
I strongly suggest to any blogger or website master that it would be worth the price of admission to bottle and preserve timefor_truth. So, to Skull/Bones, Mother Skadi, Dennis King--let us not lose TfT's special qualities--if, heaven forbid, FACTNet should vanish, let us make sure we have preserved TfT in all his/her glory.
Xlcr4life is right in comparing this to "Springtime for Hitler." TfT can't be serious, so must be a joke.
The only question is whether TfT KNOWS he's a joke.
As I said before, I'm betting "yes."
But let's save this whole thread, and the one before it, too, somewhere. Too good to lose.
I have a serious question for TfT: What do you say about Ken Kronberg's suicide? Did the "X's" make that up, too, to make LaRouche look bad? Or did Kronberg deserve it, because he was a Boomer?
If you could get your head out of your Fractured Fairytales version of the history of science, or whatever it is, to think about the real world for a minute, and real people in the real world, it would do you a passel of good. So give us your take on that case.
Besides, you know you're not doing the LYM any favors by twittering on the way you do, right?

 

timefor_truth
06-09-2007, 06:30 AM

  • If you are real, which we all still rather doubt, your standards of proof and logic are so utterly laughable and transparently cult-reinforcing that no evidence would be likely to impact your degraded mindstate. Have you no shame? You are an embarassment to the LYM, even by their sketchy standards.
    alternative ro
    "Im too far gone"! you sound like contemprary bulls--t linkin Park alternative rock!
    Ladies and gentlemen I have hit a sour note one of the worlds greatest hoaxes of all time Isaac Newton! Is adored by charltonrom his very hero will become a Latrine for this post when I am done!
    But notice as a last claim he will supply no evidence of the opposite just heated reactionary pomp like when a child gets scared and urinates himself!
    charltonrom
    Ok contest this Newton In his first two editions of the Principia How did he talk about Nascent quantities, give me quotes, How did Leibniz talk about infinitessimals in his 1676 Leibniz oldenberg correspondence? I HAVE THE WHOLE THING IF YOU WANT IT?
    What does De Morgan Note!
    Do this alone I swear It will be known the Fraud of Isaac Newton!!!!!
    HAVE YOU DONE THE WORK or have you just become the mouthpiece that gave head to your professor in order for you to pass the class?
    Is your professor in this forum are you afraid you'll get dick slapped? Again and again!
    Proof little sodomite pederast victim!
    Proof!
    I guess this one did not read the last words I left yesterday!
    I asked all simply:
    "So get your questions ready and tommorrow dont say anything ANYTHING that you cant back up with:
    1.Documentation,
    2.An understanding where the method comes from
    3.Why the particular instance you are citing is in the context of whatever it is in, as well as how the context fits the author from which you procured the information from.
    For those idiots that still make baseless "personal experience" attacks on Lyn I only ask that you not comment on what Lyn says but why he says what he does with proof. I hope that is Layman enough!"
    Yet this still has Baseless!
    You all act like lym members who have not done enough work and get their arse handed to them by someone like George Soros at an intervention!
    BRING ME PROOF WHY CAN NONE DO THIS!
    YOU KNOW WHAT WHY ARE'NT YOU ALL BRIANWASHED!
    Lets start with this one! If you all cant prove something that you have done work on but are speaking as experts on Larouche why is that Not Brainwashed?
 

timefor_truth
06-09-2007, 06:46 AM
There is a hidden agenda here!
I know it!
Save it let this exchange be immortalized I would love that more than anything!!!
I have done what I came to do to make the principle shine through:
Once again that the patrons of evil deed here in this very forum can not bring any proof that they have an understanding of Lyndon Larouche and the youth movement I am apart of!
Furthermore what they have done is simply comment of what they see as crazy and radical speech without doing the research into whether what we said was the case or whether it was false. Since the speech appeared too radical they felt safe to assume the latter!
So at certain moments when you were willing to think I put the brakes on and other times went to polemics to show you the folly of your ways!
That is what all will see!
Why should I be worried!

 

timefor_truth
06-09-2007, 07:48 AM
I have told you repeatedly in these posts what Larouche's method is but your ears will not listen!
You dont want to do the work you want the easy way out the short answer the cheat sheet!
What I can give you is this Larouchs method is to go to causes!
He goes to causes in every endeavor he undergoes and builds off of that instead of like the empiricist and you all here in this forum you go to what you see instead of what caused what you see!
Lyn's method is incredible because where you all write off history and think it insignificant, we see it as absolutely necessary as to what contributes to the quality of benevolence, hubris, and the good.
All of you look at Lyn's words in a vacuum separated from where they came from which is why EVERY SINGLE HYPOTHESIS IN HERE IS NO WHERE CLOSE TO WHERE WE ARE AT AS A MOVEMENT. YOU ALL ARE KEEPING YOURSELF IN THE DARK FROM WHAT IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL MOVEMENT ON THIS EARTH! But you do so willingly even though i still see no good reason I wiil yield this topic because there are those with malicious intent here and they are controlling the masses I now see with Words of no basis that the masses can now cut through if the so wanted!
But It's ok I am glad to have had the time to do these exchanges to see where there is proofless mudslinging. They have yielded what no other lym member has been able to give! A way outof this shadowy domain....
ha ha
Steve and other X members are not well versed in approach they may have read lyn but dont fundamentally understand ontology!
I have stated it lyn's method is to go to final causes.
Now for Larouche's discovery I understand it to a certain extent it does deal with the hereditary principle but you cant read lyn literally he may seem to be communicating literally but he communicates transcendentally!
Once the hereditary Principle is understood outside of lyn's words or memorized, then the individual just has to see where cognition fits into the picture. One must also understand hypothesis, higher hypothesis, and hypothesizing the higher hypotheses and to be able to demonstrate a completely non-axiomatic theorem lattice so as to create a foundation from which to build.
Larouche really communicates and speaks the most clearly when the individual has done the work!
There I said it that is the secret I did not want to give but is one that a select few will heed unbeknownst to the others!
I have as well laid out the foundations upon which I stand as well!
The Uber beautiful universal principle can not be expounded upon here but read Cusa!
I will wait for responses and take my final leave. Mastering these great secrets of the universe yields an indescribable state of beauty!Whether many think I am brainwashed or not does not bother me! What I will do with my actions in the future will serve the God Almighty through his son Christ to the fullest extent by using this unique in history "brainwashing" in order to create qualitative up shifts in the living quality of all man. And that is worth being stipendless! Ha ha!
Ok now where to next? hmm open the floor to debate I guess!
Oh and Believe me I am no where near the intellectual capability as some of my colleagues!
Ok

 

charltonrom
06-09-2007, 07:54 AM
What can one possibly say to this?
Clearly I am outclassed. I bow before Lyn, but even more before you. Your mastery of the Pure Method of Truth is nothing short of spectacular.

 

shadok
06-09-2007, 07:56 AM
sancho, eaglebeak...
I would disagree with you, I think that timefor_truth is a LYM-er, that he is a typical representative of the cult as it has become now. He/she reminds me this other nutcake, LYM-er Jason Ross who once called for "burning the textbooks"...
You know, madness or insanity, just like any STD's, is a communicable disease...
I simply hope that after their Kepler's sessions, the yutes go to the bathroom wash their hands... ;)
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/fall%202003/burn.pdf

 

cwhite
06-09-2007, 08:00 AM
Thanks for making these threads. Really amazing there's so much info and discussion going on.
I personally have been 'following' the LR movement for the last five years or so. I remember the point I got really interested was during the '04 election when he was talking about strategy and Kerry - I'd been anti-Dean and pro-Kerry who I'd supported all along and predicted would win the primaries.
I participated in a discussion on the internet with a YLM who semi-subscribed me (for free) to the EIR for a short while. It ended because I always refused to give money or my home phone number which must have irritated them.
A bunch of different people contacted me via email - doing the same thing. Any time I've tried to get into a discussion (about things LR said) they've answered condescendingly or angrily saying to 'put my money where my mouth is-who's side are you on?' and commit. They mostly tried to pressure through this guy from the German organization who's half-English... I don't know what they'd want me to do since they
Is there any English LR-movement to speak of? LR's anti-British sentiment although theoretically justified, seems way over the top emotionally, and from looking through the old Campaigners, something that developed very suddenly in mid-70s.
Funny thing is that I live in the United Kingdom and my full name is exactly the same as the guy who ran off with LR's wife.
But LR himself is a mess. I agree with the general principles (most of the economics, the history, the classical humanism/culture) the egomania/personality cult is clearly a major problem.

 

timefor_truth
06-09-2007, 08:03 AM
No need, no need you are your own man bow before your creator only!

 

sancho
06-09-2007, 08:04 AM
Regardless of whether he is serious or not, any prospective LYMer will be scared away by this individual.
Thank you for admitting you don't know what LaRouche's "fundamental discovery" is/was. I agree that investigation cannot be satisfied without inquiring after final causes, but one does not have to follow a cult leader and convicted felon to do that.
Since you emphasize the importance of history, do us the kindness of addressing the Ken Kronberg suicide. Or is that just one expendable boomer (and Jew) over whose body the bright faces of the young Keplers walk on the shining path to Wahrheit?

 

timefor_truth
06-09-2007, 08:13 AM
Words words for what are they sans life?

 

xlcr4life
06-09-2007, 08:19 AM
This is great material. If any college frat or sorority wants to do something funny, consider doing a short sketch called'
"Spring Time for Larouche"
You can get a ton of material from this site and it will be preserved if it goes off of factnet.
First, get a very tall actor and put a fake big head on him for authenticity.
You can have another scene right out of the movie "Ed Wood" where Lyn sits in a big chair and contemplates what to do after most of the membership leaves except for the Leesburg deadenders. I saw this scene in the movie and with a few changes, it works.
Go the middle of this and see Martin Landau in the chair.
&imgrefurl=http://www.the-reel-mccoy.com/movies/classics/EdWood.html&h=301&w=318&sz=21&hl=en&start=8&um=1&t bnid=8S0dlchAHlE5qM:&tbnh=112&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ded%2Bwood%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl% 3Den%26sa%3DG

Here is the original and with just ONE change in the script, it is worthy of a Larouche WEB broadcast show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cE1fzfOogo

Watch the Martin Landau version form "Ed Wood" and It could be a meeting between Lyn and an NEC/NC member after getting out of prison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9J-er8vXTs

Here is the dialogue at the 44 second mark which is too funny.

"...Home? I have no home. Hunted, despised, living like an animal! The jungle is my home. But I will show the world that I can be its master! I will perfect my own race of people. A race of atomic superyutes which will conquer the world!"
With a little editing, can someone take the Martin Landau speech and mix it on a larouche web cast video exerpt for youtube? We can have fun all day with this.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

timefor_truth
06-09-2007, 08:28 AM
Sure I agree you dont have to go to lyn directly,but it's the fastest way!
Go ahead circumvent Lyn, but just realize if he did make a fundamental contribution then you have to eventually go through him!
Choose your route either way just leave the baseless unprovable method behind!
I implore you all to do as much investigate the why not the what, And see if the why contradicts the universe or Man's inherent disposition and cognitive capability or another word for reality!
God Bless you all in your pursuits of truth!
My time has passed but the time for the absolute truth never does, therein lies the secret to understanding Universal Principle.
I bid thee A Christian Humanist
Farewell!

 

earnest_one
06-09-2007, 08:29 AM
TFT:
The method that you practice works with people who are ignorant and uneducated and looking for a fast and easy way to feel superior.
It relies upon a deluge of words rather than thoughts. LaRouche does NOT use language to communicate ideas; neither do you. This is easily proven. Here is some (real world) evidence:
The proposed ratio (# of references to the existence of Universal Physical Principles divided by the # of examples/explanations of Universal Physical Principles) is a real world measurement. You can perform the measurement yourself!
It measures the insincerity of people who speak and write and speak and write and speak and write and speak and write about Universal Physical Principles without explaining anything or providing insight into anything.
I mean insight relative to the quantity of words.
Ranting that Newton is a fraud doesn't allow you to calculate integrals, solve differential equations, or build useful devices.
It is masturbation that never yields ANYTHING precious. It goes on and on and on and on.
LaRouche cannot come. He is stuck in the pre-adolescent phase. He has never produced any substance worthy of the effort. Public masturbation without the money shot.
People keep waiting for some substance. It never comes because he cannot come.

 

shadok
06-09-2007, 08:38 AM
In fact timefor_truth's fantasy world reminds me what the neoplatonists were like in the 17thC onwards... trying to uncover the "Mysterium Cosmologicum" by way of Pythagoras et al This led to esoteric/wacky research by other neoplatonists like John Donne, G Bruno... It was the beginning of so-called secret societies, freemasonry etc... Astrology was never far away.
Kepler indeed was not just an astronomer, he was also an astrologer, drew at least 800 horoscopes, wrote many books on this topic (like "On the more certain foundations of astrology", in 1601), plus many prognostications ("forecasts", rings a bell?). He was appointed both as astronomer and official astrologer to the court of Rudolf II.
timefor_truth, typically believes in this "secret upper knowledge" known only to the "Inner elites". He believes that you reach "truth" away from mere (inferior) empirical facts (or from common people like us, the masses etc). His experience of "truth" is like a "mystical-religious" experience. He, unlike us poor mortals, has seen the "light".
It is not about science, it is about mystique.
Thank you timefor_truth, you have entertained us.
http://www.hps.cam.ac.uk/starry/keplerastrol.html
http://cura.free.fr/docum/15kep-en.html

 

howie
06-09-2007, 11:32 AM
http://www.struat.com/justin/timefortruthfiles.htm
Really, I probably should have started at Steve's appearance. Maybe I'll do so later.

 

kheris
06-09-2007, 12:50 PM
TFT may be gone for good, or not, but his/her use of language sounds to me like an LYMer who has ODed on the drama workshops and is trying to mimic some sort of Shakespearean language. And that's before s/he gets to whatever argument s/he thinks is being made.

 

cwhite
06-09-2007, 01:04 PM
"LaRouche cannot come. He is stuck in the pre-adolescent phase. He has never produced any substance worthy of the effort. Public masturbation without the money shot.
People keep waiting for some substance. It never comes because he cannot come."

LOL!

 

eaglebeak
06-09-2007, 02:06 PM
First: Hello, CWhite, whoever you are. Welcome.
Second: Farewell, TfT, whoever you were. I notice that you checked out without ever addressing the question of Ken Kronberg's suicide, though asked very nicely to do so by Sancho and by me. Why was that, I wonder?
On Newton: Do you have the dimmest idea what you are talking about, TfT? No, didn't think so. Could you tell us the "fraud" part again? It seemed evanescent the last time you went through it....

 

shadok
06-09-2007, 02:34 PM
Hello cwhite
well I m not sure it is "theoretically justified" to be antiBritish to the point you wish Britain to be totally "eliminated" with an atomic bomb dropped on London (I can cut & paste" the quote if you want ;-) )... or to call the "British" a "subspecies"... It s beyond reason, it s pure hatred and poor Jeremiah Duggan, a British subject, paid the heavy price.

 

charltonrom
06-09-2007, 02:47 PM
Yes; the British Empire existed. Get over it. It had some bad juju going on at points; it also was demonstrably better in some ways than what was going on in the colonial zones. They were burning widows in India for example.
On Truth Timmee's stellar quality commentary: truly, exemplary of the finest thought from Lyn's growing pool of young geniuses. Note however that s/he warns that even GREATER minds lie in wait from amongst the yutes!
As previously noted, I doubt any remarks of ours can shake such minds free from their devotional bent. Others of less pliable character might however profit from such witness, and from those of us who came to see the Dark. Please, chip in a few bucks to help keep factnet open.
Beyond Lyn's transparent anti-Israelism and beyond the ethical irregularities, which are legion, and excused by the devotees, (like Steve; since Lyn is so important he transcends ordinary standards of evaluation), the focus of inquiry should I believe remain on the doctrinal/methodological and epistemological levels, especially on the sophistry of the Theory of Universal Physical Principles, and on the balderdash of Lyn's putative "discovery." This is what lured me in, that and the World Historical Identity Scheme/scam. It's been some years since I read the famed "On LaRouche's Discovery" of the early '90's, perhaps someone herein or watching has recently parsed or exegeticized it and could dare to comment upon its depths.
charltonrom@gmail.com
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 09, 2007)

 

earnest_one
06-09-2007, 07:59 PM
"It's been some years since I read the famed "On LaRouche's Discovery" of the early '90's, perhaps someone herein or watching has recently parsed or exegeticized [sic] it and could dare to comment upon its depths."
There is NO discovery. It is all a fraud. It takes some intellectual confidence to see this, believe this, but it's the truth.
But perhaps I have missed something. Was LaRouche the FIRST person to discover that human beings have ideas? Was he the FIRST person to discover that some ideas, properly implemented, can increase our standard of living? This seems unlikely, to put it mildly.
Has LaRouche discovered a method to generate good ideas? No! He has no good ideas. Indeed he has no ideas whatsoever, other than cult manipulation techniques that he uses to keep his followers in line. Strings of words and detailed references to famous people does not constitute original thinking. Massive complication is not a sign of a clear mind.
It is an amazing fact, to be studied by social scientists far into the future, that someone so clearly fraudulent could convince people that he has done original work.
The con rests on the ignorance of the audience. NOBODY seems to be able to state clearly what this great discovery was, yet people rant about it, for decades. There MUST be a discovery, because it is mentioned so much (indeed, because it became "popular" opinion inside the NCLC, it MUST be true).
I claim that LaRouche's contribution is vaporware, pure and simple.
Does LaRouche (sometimes) articulate reasonable positions. Yes, of course! He is one of the few public figures to actually speak the truth, about many things, of great interest and import. But his renditions are mixed in with bull of the highest order, including the bull con that he is an authentic scientist, someone who has done non-trivial work, someone with genuine, original ideas.
It is fraud, boys and girls. In terms of science and original ideas he is a mediocre thinker. On the other hand, he happens to take the right position on many issues, issues that appeal to idealistic people who are discouraged by the present political atmosphere and culture.

 

jimmyo
06-09-2007, 08:29 PM
Howie - I'm just jimmyo, not jmp(nnn). Mentioned above that going to primary sources was something I picked up in the LYM. I remember a couple of us decided to work through Gauss' DA book (I'm not going to guess the latin spelling.) which is basically a number theory textbook (probably why we stopped. Textbooks are bad, m'kay). So my personal library includes books by most of the peeps Lyn mentions, and going into college that'll do me good, I reckon. Ignoring the LHL slant unless it happens that his view coincides with realty, which I'm sure does, occasionally, happen.
odd-one mentioned reading Poes Philosophy of Composition. I'd also recommend his Rationale of Verse (both avaliable from www.eapoe.org (http://www.eapoe.org)) For Poe, poetry is very much logical.
Oh, and reading Poe, I got the impression Lyn stole alot from him. His fractional distillation theory of solar system generation (which Lyn claims as uniquely his own) is covered in Eureka. Attributed to Laplace. A paragraph in How to Write a Blackwoods Article fits Lyns style, I think:
"The tone metaphysical is also a good one. If you know any big words this is your chance for them. Talk of the Ionic and Eleatic schools -- of Archytas, Gorgias, and Alcmaeon. Say something about objectivity and subjectivity. Be sure and abuse a man named Locke. Turn up your nose at things in general, and when you let slip any thing a little too absurd, you need not be at the trouble of scratching it out, but just add a footnote and say that you are indebted for the above profound observation to the 'Kritik der reinem Vernunft,' or to the 'Metaphysithe Anfongsgrunde der Noturwissenchaft.' This would look erudite and -- and -- and frank."

 

jimmyo
06-09-2007, 08:43 PM
Oh, back up a little, someone asked us to write to Lyn. I used to a little, and got some replies. I'm not going to post my whole question, because that would take a couple posts. But among other things, in our local LYM office, we were reading and discussing the Beyond Psych papers (I read all three and when I read that footnote on judaism in Feuerbach, I printed it and stuck it on the notice board, with a note 'so that's why they think we're anti-sematic) I asked Lyn, if he were to write those papers now, would they be any different? ("We were discussing this here, and came to the conclusion that those papers would have been different if you'd known Cusa at the time. And if you'd known Schiller...") From the response:
"Beyond Psychoanalysis" was written during the early through middle 1970s, as a therapeutic response to the characteristic mental disease of the generation of university-age Baby Boomers at that time. Then, the impact of Karl Marx (either pro or con) and Sigmund Freud and the psychoanalytic debates of that generation, were a stubborn weed infecting the minds of almost the entirety of that generation. It was necessary, therefore, to attack that specific mental disease of that generation - - or, should I say, "de-generation" - - in order to bring in ideas which corresponded to the reality of the human mind's characteristics.
Now, with the current generation of young adults, the specificity of the Marx-Freud syndrome of the 1960s and 1970s is in the past, living only in dusty corners of the tired imaginations of ageing Baby-Boomers. The diseases of today run to wild-eyed existentialism of rock and its derivatives of today.
My analysis of the problem then, was accurate, and no evidence has yet been presented which would require me to have second thoughts about what I wrote then, for the audience of those times. However, on the positive side of the human mind, and what I wrote in defending that against the disease of that, I made no error. In that respect it remains the best written on that subject in the context of that social setting. What remains for today, is the positive affirmations which I made then, and today.

 

sancho
06-09-2007, 09:26 PM
What a load of manure! He was an avid Marxist for decades and an amateur devotee of Freud.
This response illustrates Lyn's indifferentism - a characteristic of Freemasonry - a belief that beneath two or more apparently contradictory sets of belief there is one true gnosis which only the initiate into the higher mysteries can access. He himself is of course the grand Magus, which is why he lies with such a straight face.
Let's look at some key phrases:
"a therapeutic response" Lyn has no training whatsover in any kind of therapy, and in fact fell far short of completing a mere bachelor's degree. Shouldn't one find it odd that a non-therapist should feel compelled to provide "a therapeutic response?"
"the characteristic mental disease", "[t]he diseases of today" ditto
"My analysis of the problem then, ..." He does not state the "problem" in that series, merely used Marx and Freud to beat the heads of his followers into further submission.
"However, on the positive side of the human mind, and what I wrote in defending that against the disease of that, ..." ???
"I made no error." Uniquely among all human beings ever, Lyn has never made an error, which is quite surprising for an untreated alcoholic such as he.
"In that respect it remains the best written ..." Name three of the other top contenders which deal with that nonexistent issue of the "stubborn weed."
I don't know if all of this posting is helping to keep young people out of the LaRouche cult, but as I learn more from the rest of you, he continues to sink weekly ever lower in my estimation.
What a maroon ...

 

howie
06-09-2007, 11:11 PM
I'm currently reading through the old threads on this board, which is something I've been meaning to do -- and meaning to save some of it -- which has a sudden new urgency in the wake of FACTNet needing to raise $12k. (If this board goes kuput, I think we should have a back-up plan. Wary of Larouche histrionics, but it does seem like something Crisis - filled is right around the corner in Larouche-land, and ordinarily I wouldn't care much if such a thing as this board fades away, but not at this precise moment. I think I can offer a space on an ezboard I help administer, if it comes to that.)
Oh gawd. Stumbling right out of the gate, a defense of the theory that the Beatles were a plot from the British oligarch, with the line about defending "the rigors of classical music against opinions".
Combing through this is going to be tricky. Here's a question: is there anything I should be looking for?

 

charltonrom
06-10-2007, 04:27 AM
Howie, from my perspective if you'e going to redact all the posts I would say: note how the revelations vary depending on whether the poster seems to have been an early member, a late member, a yute, etc. Quite revelatory to get the ceaseless evolution of Lyn's sorry praxis and see how the disenchanted differ from the still-enchanted. I came in in the thread before this one, it is full of great stuff; the earlier ones I haven't examined.

 

charltonrom
06-10-2007, 05:09 AM
Now we advance further into the domain of demolishing Lyn's Dogma, and the Creed, the cornerstone of the LYM and the wider cult.
Let all admit that Lyn is one of the most voluminous rhetoricians in all history. His output is truly gargantuan. He and the Members are convinced of his uniquely epochal genius, and he HAS a deep intuitive genius---for demagoguery. Let those beware who underestimate it. It is instructive to see examples and hear the sorry tales of his victims, but I believe we need to maintain the structural level of assessment. Over my next few posts I intend to further expose the nature of his demagogic genius using Lyn's own words, and the words of his retinue. We shall establish how this cult apparatus functions at the present juncture. (I intend to have some fun with this. Few can write as badly as Lyn, but at points I will make satirical attempts.)
As previously posted, cults form as essentially mixed-up devotees gather around a charismatic figure. On the face of it with his black teeth and creepy red glasses he used to wear, Lyn wouldn't seem very charismatic; but as others have noted, he is Tall, which helps (human beings with our physical nature being what it is). And about him the organization maintains a hype and sacral aura. After the prosecutions the organization constructed the immense Railroad narrative, establishing Lyn as the great political target of the age. This narrative is key to indoctrinating new Members.
Therefore the fundamental elements for a Cult apparatus exist. Many people are looking for answers and direction, not only for their own lives but for their nations and the world as a whole; certainly, that's what I was looking for. Lyn draws these in, via his retinue of savvy hucksters, hoaxsters, toadies and administrators, his chief lieutenants: Harley, Phil, Nancy, Bruce, Debbie Freeman, the Tony's, Jeff and Michelle... These folks have a privileged position; no longer being required to go hit the intersections or spend 70 hrs a wk on the phone raising monies, they get to jet around, chat with Lyn and craft the party line for the day, and probably, undoubtedly, they truly believe the Creed: Lyn is in effect the Messiah.
Next up: Dogmess, er I mean Dogmas
charltonrom@gmail.com

(Message edited by charltonrom on June 10, 2007)
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 10, 2007)

 

charltonrom
06-10-2007, 05:45 AM
The ICLC-ene Creed
"I believe in one Oligarchy almighty, maker of leaven and mirth, which has controlled history since the Akkadian Empire. I believe this Oligarchy has assumed various forms including the controlling Dionysiac Cult of the Pythian Apollo and the Cult of Mithra in ancient times and later the controlling Venetian Reactionaries who controlled the Norman and Anjou Types and ran the Crusades through Henry the Eighth's controller the Venetian Sex Counselor, Zorzi. And I believe that the Venetians controlled Galileo and Newton and not only used but popularized their reactionary anti-platonic linear method in their insidious attempt to stop Kepler using controllers like the fiendish Paolo Sarpi and the evil Dr Samuel Clark. And I believe in the One True Faith namely that Leibniz knew everything important long before anybody else and that modern science is a cult of Babylonian priests and that Lyn is the avatar of a new scientific revolution based on a group of drop-outs studying some few approved texts plus Kepler's putative discovery of universal gravity. And I believe in the Resurrection of the Batty and the LYM everlasting, Amen."
charltonrom@gmail.com
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 10, 2007)

 

charltonrom
06-10-2007, 08:36 AM
General Kranko/Lyn fooled me, through the sheer mass of rhetoric and the Aura the cult built up around him. I believed here was a New Conception, a New Humanism that would in due course lead to the transformation of the world both philosophically and physically. However upon closer examination the Humanism is revealed as Hooeyism, nothing really but a carrier ideology for Lyn's megalomanic powerlust.
The Doctrine/Creed/Mission is what draws in the yutes. This is the target.
Lyn/General Kranko has elaborated in numerous places his version of the history of science and mathematics. It's not that the world displays a Pagan Worship of Isaac Newton
http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2003/3045pagan_isaac.html
An honest examination shows that Newton made signal contributions. His notation for the calculus was inferior. Get over it. His investigations in the Principia and Optics blew away the science establishment including Huygens and set the research program for physics for the next century and more. Leibniz fibbed that he hadn't read the Principia !
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Equivalence-Priority-Including-Unpublished-Manuscripts/dp/0198501439
When honest Gottfried published his version of celestial dynamics it still included Descartes' vortex conceptions! General Kranko believes the entire development of physics reveals a conspiracy to suppress "Leibniz calculus", which conspiracy was run by the neo-Venetians.
continued
charltonrom@gmail.com
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 10, 2007)

 

charltonrom
06-10-2007, 08:50 AM
General Kranko and Colonel Blimpoid (Lyn & Bruce) have stated and perhaps actually believe that Newton was a "black magic specialist." Perhaps the key essay is "Cauchy's Infamous Fraud"
http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2005/3213cauchy_fraud.html
Human history has a developmental character, ladies and gentlemen; chemistry was in an infantile state, and alchemy despite its bad rap was the only experimental tradition dealing with the nature of matter. Newton performed experiments. General Kranko often points to the the negative comments about Newton of John Maynard Keynes. These are unreliable as not only did Keynes comment refer to a small sampling of Newton's corpus, Keynes was not in a position to judge the nature of Newton's alchemical work. Recently it's been shown that his alchemical furnace experiments were not at all silly but just early investigations of chemical transformation.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/newton/
As for "Cauchy's Infamous Fraud"... it is more CME: Continuous Methane Emission. More soon.
charltonrom@gmail.com
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 10, 2007)

 

earnest_one
06-10-2007, 10:00 AM
Charltonrom wrote:
"Let all admit that Lyn is one of the most voluminous rhetoricians in all history."
I admit to no such thing. I think it is nonsense – and that ex-LaRouche people still have rocks in their heads.
Moreover, it is probably more likely that LaRouche (or some member of his con-artist team) have simply written a computer algorithm for producing un-artful prose.
That his output is impressive is not a good sign. Many people have produced prodigious output, output with substance and value. Bach wrote an enormous quantity of extremely high quality music. Indeed, it has been estimated that if a mere mortal attempted to simply hand copy Bach's compositions, they would not finish in their lifetime.
Euler produced an incredible amount of high-quality mathematics. Charles Saunders Pierce, the great American philosopher, wrote tens of volumes of extremely thoughtful philosophy.
I believe that LaRouche's prose is an assault upon the human mind; it is repulsive, thoughtless, and largely vacuous save for the meaning that an intelligent reader can supply on his or her own.
Many people, the world over, masturbate all day long, in the confines of their own homes. LaRouche has simply made his private sexual perversions public. There is nothing to be impressed with, except that he has convinced others that he has done something worthwhile, something worthy of "world historical" attention.
"Rhetoricians"? Why not go visit a mental institution and see how many words are vomited out by psychotic patients who speak to the walls, on their own? This would be a fair comparison, say I.
Someone should perform some measurements -- a crucial experiment.

 

charltonrom
06-10-2007, 11:21 AM
I didn't say it was any GOOD--- I just said it was voluminous. What I am trying to do is peel away the various appeal layers, and one of them is his "epochal genius." This doctrinal element is reinforced by the sheer mass of stuff. For the historically and philosophically challenged, which is most of us, when you see an essay like "Leibniz from Riemann's Standpoint" in an attractive magazine like Fidelio (as I saw it), it can intrigue.
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid_91-96/963A_lieb_rieman.html
More on this soon.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

borisbad
06-10-2007, 11:34 AM
After reading the thread from TFT it became obvious that he not only absorbed Lyn's ability to obfuscate by believing the longer and more confused his so-called explanation is, the more profound. And of course, the inability of the readers "to get it" is the fault of the readers not of the writer. He also seems to lack a good spell checker or grammar checker (that would be too linear I presume). And of course, like his mentor, he has no conception of subject/object agreement, tense agreement, etc. But of course when one is operating in the rarified atmosphere TFT inhabits, he can't be bothered with such mundane things as absorbing a simple 101 College Composition class in his prose.
He also has absorbed the training of people like Harley, who if they can't actually express an idea to counter an opposing view, will resort to the most vile scatological denunciations of the opponent de jure. This has been Lyn's so-called ironical polemical method that has always been with him since the early days of the ICLC.
The only thing I wonder is how, if he were actually a LYM member, he would have enough free time away from the card table shrines to actually read any posts and write his missives. Maybe he was given that assignment by Papert or one of his other overseers.
But I think it correct to say that if a potential recruit read his writings on this site it would do more to drive him or her running to the door than our own writings, unless the person shares the delusion that this is the sign of a powerful intellect!!!

 

charltonrom
06-10-2007, 12:10 PM
General Kranko's Endless Fraud
Lyn's narratives of the history of science make for fascinating study in the paranoid style, if you can endure the torturous quality. Essentially, as previously noted, there was a Pure Method known to Plato; it was attacked and silenced by Aristotle and Ptolemy, revived by Cusa, cherished and continued by Kepler and perhaps Leonardo; this was promptly attacked by the regnant oligarchy in Venice using their agents, Galileo and Newton. Leibniz then "discovered" the calculus in a flash of complete, brilliant, fresh genius, supposedly after studying "the Kepler problem," as Colonel Blimpoid has put it.
This pure, unsullied, perfect calculus was then attacked by agents of the oligarchy such as Euler and LaGrange. Never mind that Lyn used to praise Euler to the skies; now that the master narrative has modulated Euler is part of the Villain Pool. As for LaGrange, never mind that his work is honored by all astrophysicists and the LaGrange Points are recognized elements in celestial mechanics, akin to geostationary-orbit points; his life and work, and Euler's, and D'alembert's, are part of the eternal conspiracy of the Akkadian-Dionysiac-Pythian Apollo-Mithraic-Ptolemaic-Venetian Conspiracy to prevent man from willfully increasing our relative potential population density.
And never mind that basing the calculus on the infinitesimal leads to Zeno-style paradoxes and that this was known 250 yrs ago, was much discussed and argued, nor that the rigorous articulation of the Limit concept by Cauchy formalized the calculus on a logically sound basis; none of these developments have any internal logical or natural historic force, native to the subject's complexities. There just has to be a conspiracy, run by oligarchs since the founding of Greek philosophy out of myth and poetry, to silence those (like Lyn) who seek to elevate mankind.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

xlcr4life
06-10-2007, 01:19 PM
Speaking of perversions earnest one, Lyn's 1992 VP runnning mate Rev James Bevel has been indicted for incest of his daughter while running with LYN as a VP candidate.
http://www.etext.org/Politics/LaRouche/larouche.program.01

CHECK OUT THE DAYES OF THE ALLEGED ABUSE. This is during the 1992 election and beyond . Anyone with some info on this has to call the local authorities if you were in Leesburg and know additional facts.

http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/virginia/dp-kingconfidantcharged0609jun09,0,53249.story?coll=d p-headlines-virginia (http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/virginia/dp-kingconfidantcharged0609jun09%2C0%2C53249.story?co ll=dp-headlines-virginia)
Civil rights leader James Bevel charged with incest
By the Associated Press
June 9, 2007
LEESBURG, Va. -- A civil rights leader who worked closely with the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. has been charged with incest.
The Rev. James L. Bevel, 70, was arrested late last month in Alabama, where he has been living, after being indicted on one count of unlawfully committing fornication.
On Saturday, defense attorney Buta Biberaj said no plea had been entered yet and it would be premature for her to comment. A bail hearing is set for June 14.
Bevel appeared briefly in Loudoun County Circuit Court on Friday but did not speak.
According to the indictment, the crime occurred in Loudoun County in northern Virginia between Oct. 14, 1992, and Oct. 14, 1994, when the accuser was 13 to 17 years old.
Bevel, who worked with King and witnessed his assassination in Memphis, Tenn., in 1968, has played a key role in some of the country's major civil rights protests.
He organized the 1963 Children's Crusade in Birmingham, Ala., and was a leader of the Freedom Rides to desegregate public accommodations throughout the South in the early 1960s. And he was an architect of the March on Washington in 1963 and the Selma-to-Montgomery march in Alabama in 1965. He also helped organize the Million Man March in Washington in 1995.
If convicted, Bevel could face up to 20 years in prison.

xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

earnest_one
06-10-2007, 02:57 PM
My goodness, XLCR: where do you find such stories?!
Perhaps LaRouche was an accessory to child molestation. This is hardly a stretch as the psychological "structure" of such an event mirrors the present-day LYM, where young minds are corrupted by a dirty old man. Here I mean the raping of innocent brain cells, exposed to the pure filth of LaRouche's twisted constructions.
As for calculus, note that Newton's teacher, Isaac Barrow (1630 – 1677), made one of the key contributions – discovering the fundamental theorem of the calculus (the relation between derivatives and integrals). It was a great advance, allowing us to compute meaningful measures, and build useful devices.
But LaRouche et al. cannot compute or build anything meaningful or useful. Indeed, they rail against algebra, one of the greatest labor saving devices in human history. This demonstrates the absolute fraud of Lyn's intellect. Algebra permitted us to increase our mastery over nature – it led to increases in the "relative population density". But now it is p.ssed upon. Or, to be more exact, everything of any real value is p.ssed upon by LaRouche. Especially human beings.
Perversion(s) indeed, although it is also a perversion if you enjoy being treated badly. It takes two to tango…

 

shadok
06-10-2007, 03:48 PM
Yes, this child molestation accusation against rev Bevel is shocking, i remember him quite well. Wasn't he responsible of the Youth/students section in the Civil rights mvt? But we should respect this fundamental principle (which lhl doesnt): any person is innocent till proven otherwise... and of course any witness should report to the police.
And what about... the mass rape of the minds by this serial molester called lyndon larouche ? wasnt he talking of ppl being "mentally sodomized" (by the "enemy")? (or something in that vein)

 

xlcr4life
06-10-2007, 05:12 PM
My goodness, XLCR: where do you find such stories?!
The Washington Post via _______________________

James L. Bevel, a prominent figure in the civil rights movement and a confidant of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., has been charged with incest in Loudoun County. Bevel, 70, was indicted by a Loudoun grand jury last month on one count of unlawfully committing fornication. The indictment was handed up after a complaint by the alleged victim to the Leesburg Police Department in September 2005, police spokesman Lt. Jeff Dube said.


The full article is below.

Civil Rights Figure Charged

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Civil Rights Leader Charged With Incest
The Associated Press
Saturday, June 9, 2007; 11:16 AM

LEESBURG, Va. -- A civil rights leader who worked closely with the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. has been charged with incest.
The Rev. James L. Bevel, 70, was arrested late last month in Alabama, where he has been living, after being indicted on one count of unlawfully committing fornication.
On Saturday, defense attorney Buta Biberaj said no plea had been entered yet and it would be premature for her to comment. A bail hearing is set for June 14.
Bevel appeared briefly in Loudoun County Circuit Court on Friday but did not speak.
According to the indictment, the crime occurred in Loudoun County in northern Virginia between Oct. 14, 1992, and Oct. 14, 1994, when the accuser was 13 to 17 years old.
Bevel, who worked with King and witnessed his assassination in Memphis, Tenn., in 1968, has played a key role in some of the country's major civil rights protests.
He organized the 1963 Children's Crusade in Birmingham, Ala., and was a leader of the Freedom Rides to desegregate public accommodations throughout the South in the early 1960s. And he was an architect of the March on Washington in 1963 and the Selma-to-Montgomery march in Alabama in 1965. He also helped organize the Million Man March in Washington in 1995.
If convicted, Bevel could face up to 20 years in prison
Along with civil rights icons Jesse Jackson and Andrew Young, Bevel witnessed the April 4, 1968, assassination of King.
In 1992, Bevel was the vice presidential running mate of perennial presidential candidate Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr., who had a strong following in Loudoun.
Bevel also helped organize the Million Man March in Washington in 1995.
The late author David Halberstam, who wrote about the civil rights movement, portrayed Bevel as a fearless risk-taker with an intuitive sense.
"And that was the only way this protest was going to work, to affect the consciousness of the country, the government, public opinion, was if they went into the most dangerous venues," such as Selma, Halberstam said in a 1998 NBC News interview.
Bevel was trained as a Baptist minister and later became pastor of the Hebraic-Christian-Islamic Assembly in Chicago.
At the time of his arrest, he was living in Eutaw, Ala., according to court documents.
Wittman said the investigation is ongoing. "For that reason, it would not be appropriate to make any comment," she said
(Message edited by xlcr4life on June 10, 2007)

 

timefor_truth
06-10-2007, 05:37 PM
Ok I'm BaaaaAAAAck!
To set down the notion of Universal Principles. No less.
Thats a stab at the attacks!
All of them!
Read between the lines.
Yes it sat on my conscience that to many individuals in the streets this wonderful idea that I explained to them, I did not explain to you all so now I will elaborate on it fully.
The speak will be non deductive though so I warn all those ready for an empirically adduced phenomena expressed or anything of like nature are going to be the loudest of the sirens!
once again it will not be logical, or it will not locate it's FINAL causes as something THAT CAN BE EMPIRICALLY COMPREHENDED!
Where it will locate it's final Causes will be where final causes reside, in the realm of the invisible, Or outside of sense perception!
It will cause you to use an invisible part of the human apparatus in order to access it. Just like when we do investigations into history we use an invisible apparatus to access understanding of not just events but how individuals thought that (is invisible) brought those events into play!
What is more dangerous the Crusades or the thinking that brought the crusades into play?!
Which of the aforementioned was always invisible?
The Crusades or the thinking that brought them into play?
Here goes!

 

sancho
06-10-2007, 07:23 PM
Again, what was the final cause of Ken Kronberg's taking of his own life?

 

timefor_truth
06-10-2007, 08:00 PM
Now in all of physical space time every single fiber of existence was brought into existence. None have always existed.
Why? Because the nature of finite physical space time is such that, it will come and it will go. Something that has always existed will not be here today gone tommorrow.
It will have to transcend this nature! So what is this being well more on that later let us work with all of finite existence for now.
We here in this forum recognize (unless there are objectors), an (albeit limited) understanding that final causes are invisible, outside the realm immediately comprehended by our senses.
This is a universal Principle in and of itself.
I will touch on it briefly in principle.
The complex domain that was elaborated by Carl Friedrick Gauss in his 1799 Fundamental theorem Of Algebra demonstrated that the realm outside of our senses, are where the ontologically "real" exist. That the universe works in such a way that all that is made clear to our senses with such perceptible "precision", are mere "shadows" of what is really going on in this Complex-Ontologically real-domain outside of logical/empirical manifestations.
Why? Because logical/empirical entities are fleeting they do not have any lasting substance.
Anything that is empirically adduced will have a limited life span.
It may be hundreds of thousands or millions of years, but that phenomena nonetheless has a beginning and an end.
So what is then our conception of "real" something that will be here today
gone tomorrow, or something that lasts and lasts and lasts?
Something that is going, going, gone, or something that keeps going, and going, and going..etc?
(Duracell or Energizer?
wait scratch that last one!)
So the class of phenomena outside of the empirical nature or of the nature of the going, going, going, are the adhesive of the universe! Without this class of phenomena, the Universe would fall apart!
How would the Universe be without gravity!
Will we be grounded or floating?
Would the planets revolve around the sun?
What would be keeping the universe in harmony?
What do we have as REASON to believe, would exist outside of the known Universe today, that would order all in the empirical domain, If universals did not exist?
Is it a Universal if we were to conjecture that there are no universals?
So the gravity of the situation is such that the invisible, or beyond empirical realm, holds the reigns for what our senses perceive, which go in the direction the reign recipient orders!
Gravity holds the reigns of the celestial bodies in motion such that, where the Universal Principle says "GO" the objects of our senses obey!
So the next question begged to be asked is how does Gravity, as well as the other residents of this "Extra sensory" domain "know" to do such things?
Is their cause something that is of the same nature as them?
Or is it something outside of their nature?
Can a computer willfully decide to create another computer, or does it have to be programmed to do such a thing?
Did the Crusades just happen, or was there an idea that led to their inception?
Can we figure this out with empirical logic or with extrasensory reason.......?
[End of part 1]

 

sancho
06-10-2007, 08:03 PM
Coward.

 

charltonrom
06-10-2007, 08:33 PM
General Kranko's All-Party Congress
of Leading Anjou Spoonbenders
A Report on the House of Windsor's Reverend Moon-linked Anglo-Dutch French-Spanish Italian Synarchists' nefarious Plot, to use Special Warfare Psy-Ops Teams of Ultramontane Agent-Provocateur Blas Pinar to transfer Control over the looming Sublime Financial Blowout, from the World-Federalist Society's Venetian Agent and Would-Be "Grand Inquisitor" Dick Cheney (and Those Whom He Calls Master)
to
THE MOST FOUL AND EXECRABLE, VILE, NEXT-AVAILABLE BEFANGED SATANIC DEMONS!


  • Once upon a time there delivered General Kranko of a noeticism. This titanic feats de jure comprised kimosavee ob de next o' kin de Monsieur de LaRouche mon. In that time also he managed to save the world as he had before with untimely gratuities and timeless vagaries of his classical type, but before long the Oligarchee rendered again its leering maw and swallowed hope for an entire age. But like a Tucson rising from the ashes our hero staves off elimination and makes it into the second round. Here he finds himself face to face with the Enemy of the human race, namely Dem Dam Dews, the sinuous, snidely mercantile artist...
    charltonrom@gmail.com
 

timefor_truth
06-11-2007, 12:06 AM
From the many one!
Remember E Pluribus Unum, yeah it was proof that the founding father's read, and not only could comprehend Plato, but knew how to put it into practice.
This concept demonstrates explicitly universal principle!
In the universe there is one thing that unites all things in it together.
What is this one thing?
How about that all things can be seen.
That seems appropriate right?
Can we see Gravity?
Well what we do see is we see objects being pulled by gravity.
Is that gravity, Or the effect of gravity?
How about we can hear everything in the universe?
Everything in the universe can be heard, right?
Can we hear gravity?
What I do hear is stupidity at whomever dictates
Newton discovered gravity by having an apple drop on his head. Is that gravity?
How about we can smell everything in the universe!
Think we got it now?
Just one little question bothers me how would we know what Gravity smells like when we have smelt it?
Can we feel everything in the universe then?
If I think we could feel everything in the universe would I be wrong?
Can we feel gravity?
Some say: "What goes up must come down", that thing that makes us come down isn't that gravity?
Well what does gravity do?
It does'nt suck either!
The planets revolve around the sun.
They aren't being sucked into the sun.
Anyways is that gravity?
Or is the action that keeps the planets in orbit what Gravity does?
If you were drawing a picture, are you the action of drawing?
If some of you said "WTF!!!" for what I just typed good!

Those that are thinking, know that we are not the action of drawing but the actors!
If the effect of some thing, (the action that keeps the earth in orbit) and the cause,
(Gravity) are not the same, why is the equation that Newton came up with being called gravity today?
Isn't the rate at which bodies fall and the person doing the drawing, a proportion of ,effect:cause?
&
Isn't Gravity and the action of drawing a proportion of, cause:effect?
To come out in totality to look like:
Gravity--Artist
--=--
Newtonian-- Drawing
equation
How is that for a ratio that is used the way it's intended, to communicate something!
What the equation demonstrates is the INFERIORITY of empiricism to grasp what CAUSED the phenomenon that makes it's way to our senses.
Empiricism sees the phenomenon that it comprehends to be a cause in and of itself!
So all the many in the universe can not be summed up by a one if we used our senses.
Any objections?
So am I insane or an occultic alchemist for saying that our senses/empiricism/logic cant give us an understanding of universals?
Am I trying to "trick" your mind by saying since you have taken the method of approach of sense "precision", you are fashioning a self fitted and perpetuated tourniquet ostensibly
impeding the flow to comprehend deeper physics?
For you talk of Integrals and such other advancements as if Leibniz and the bernoulli brothers did not originate this field!
What you dont understand is that manipulating a concept is no substitute for origination!
Now does anyone have any legitimate proof as to why I am wrong, or blinded, or in a state of megalomania, or anything else?
I "dropped" one name what can be said now? Am I trying to hide behind a cloud of names?
I have not even revealed how Physical space time by necessity implies a higher ordering principle!
God!

 

timefor_truth
06-11-2007, 12:11 AM
You have enough here! I am rather *yawn* of all the Conspiracy talk and baseless attacks.
It is you that made the folly today!

 

charltonrom
06-11-2007, 04:06 AM
Timefor, thank you for taking the time and showing the respect for your readers to write in a way that is at least minimally readable. Your previous posts demonstrated a pretty appalling grasp of the responsibility of a writer to communicate clearly---or a contemptuous attitude towards your readers, such that the writing displays massive, insulting slop.

There's another, very large side to the story than you're being told by Lyn and Bruce.
The history of mathematics, and particularly of the calculus, is a tangled web of notions and developments. It's good to have your own views but you should know that a massive body of very serious scholarship on the history already exists. You can laugh and dismiss it with a wave of the hand but if you do you open yourself up to a charge of willful ignorance.
On the question of Universal Physical Principles, your post shows you are thinking about philosophical issues. This is good. The problem with interpretations like yours is evident: they quickly lead to the seemingly profound conclusion that God or the World Soul causes everything. This may be true and perhaps it can in time be turned into a reconstruction of worldviews; but the physical sciences at least proceed by modeling phenomena mathematically using partial differential equations. Proof that this procedure is effective is shown by the existence of high-level modeling software such as Femlab. To ask what causes gravity, is a big and valid question. Maybe you might want to read up some on general relativity.
Here's what Einstein had to say about Newton, by the way:
"A shining spirit, who pointed out, as none before or after him did, the path of Western thought and research and practical construction. He was not only an inventor of genius in respect of particular guiding methods; he also showed a unique mastery of the empirical material known in his time, and he was marvelously inventive in special mathematical and physical demonstrations..."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/newton/einstein.html
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

sancho
06-11-2007, 04:57 AM
Apart from evading LaRouche's complicity in the death of Ken Kronberg, now that you speak clearly, you are saying nothing different from what most people know: we empirically observe falling objects and revolving planets and by a process of induction (call the process what you will) hypothesize a cause for these phenomena. If one wishes to imbue that cause with greater dignity by Capitalizing it, fine, it's a free country. But you are really saying nothing new here.
Not that you are at all on his level, but I recall my Wallace Stevens period, and how he went on and on about the imagination. With trembling hands, I picked up his lectures, _The Necessary Angel_, and expected an avalanche of revelation on the subject of the imagination - only to find that after all that baroque, subtropical imagery his understanding of what the imagination was was of no greater depth than that of any other thinking person. This is why I demand clarity of LaRouchites, because once they speak in understandable terms, it is easy to see that there ain't nothin' new here. Thanks for obliging us, however, with a minimum of name dropping. I guess.
I am still awaiting your "historical understanding" of Lyn's call in the briefing for the suicide of the so-called "boomers" and the consequent death of Ken Kronberg. If you have any intellectual honesty, you must address this.

 

sancho
06-11-2007, 05:10 AM
P.S. For those interested, there is a review by Harold Bloom in the 6/28/07 _New York Review of Books_ of _The Dream of the Poem: Hebrew Poetry from Muslim and Christian Spain, 950-1492_ translated and edited by Peter Cole (Princeton University Press.) The review provides a good survey of this period and the book sounds fantastic.

 

shadok
06-11-2007, 05:55 AM
some here wonder whether timefor_truth is a LYM member as she/he seems to have time to write so much here.... Well if you look at the time of his/her posts, it seems timefor_truth sleeps only 3hr/night, which makes him/her definitively a LYM-er! Lyn has made clear he s sleeping only 3hr/night and people don't need more than that, he says. Many LYM-ers confirmed me that sleep deprivation is part of the LYM-er regime (no more than 5hr/night).
It is a known mind control technique many cults use.
What are the effects of sleep deprivation?
Well he brain's ability to problem solving is greatly impaired: decision-making abilities are compromised, and the brain falls into rigid thought patterns that make it difficult to generate new ideas. There is a loss of temporal lobe functioning in favor of the parietal lobe, which improves short-term memory at the expense of long-term memory. Also the neurons are not regenerated properly. Sleep deprived subjects have difficulties thinking of imaginative words or ideas. Instead, they tend to choose repetitious words or clichéd phrases. Also, a sleep-deprived individual is less able to deliver a statement well. It can sometimes cause people to have hallucinations. Emotional mood deteriorates, people become irritable and short-tempered, both with themselves and others, even leading to violence. At its extremes, it s being used as torture or brainwashing technique.
Many symptoms here I recognize in timefor_truth's (or lhl's)
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro01/web3/Ledoux.html
http://www.sleep-deprivation.com/html/effects.php3

 

charltonrom
06-11-2007, 09:18 AM
General Kranko and the Pure Truth Posse
featuring a cast of Dozings
with:
Vapidity Joneser
Terence Iwannafrappe
Skint Chyster
and
Colonel Blimpoid on Surface Tensor
The Scene: Somewhere above the Bluff, Colonel Blimpoid waxes forth on the origins of mathematical qualia and Plato's Formal Dress. "Euclid was a fraud, you see. His epochal compilation reveals nothing so much as a typically crabbed, impoverished Aristotelian asininity. Are there any questions? Good, then let's proceed. Now Plato, on the other hand, wore fine gloves, made using his Pure Method. So moving on I shall now demonstrate Beethoven's topological method of Platonic composting, which does require quite a bit of fertilizer, so please bare with me."
charltonrom@gmail.com
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 11, 2007)

 

timefor_truth
06-11-2007, 10:37 AM
I right now am not with the lym I am visiting a
grandfather who is very ill, SHADOK!
If that is the extent of your attacks your mind is in graver
danger than I had previously anticipated.
You did not address what I wrote!
So I suggest you get off the computer,
literally (that is not what it's used for),put that back in your pants,
and start reading some ORIGINAL source documentation! Prescribed by doctor truth!
charltonrom Do not belittle me!
Einstein, second hand source.
Have you read Einsteins' book on special and general relativity.
I have it if you want it?
It's an original source!
Oh. Einstein did not get the glorious opportunity
to Read John Maynard Keynes
scathing attack on Newton,
which gloriously exposed the Fraud!
You should read it it is quite insightful!
Later in Einstein's life he distanced himself from Newton do you know why?
Well Newton the empiricist was just flat out wrong
on so many fronts and when individuals do the work for themselves this can not become
any more clear!
For instance Newton had said that light,
another universal principle, could not
be acted upon by gravity. Pull up a
book on the principia and see the
fools argument stated with such
authority in philosophical argument!
Then look to the method of finding new planets today.
Planets that are too far to see even with telescopes, are being found!
How do they do it?
Well they look to where light is bent by the gravitational pull of the planet.
Do you know where this method comes from?
None other than the very Albert Einstein you cite!
So stop copying and pasting Bruce director or Lyn's work or give links to more second hand sources!
The possibility that Newton was a fraud, is not even one in your mind!
I'm still talking to you CHARLTONROM!
Do you have any original words that you can back up
with first hand documentation, B/C
all you are doing is
regurgitating the semen your professor's PENIS FORCEFULLY FLUNG into your throat!
All that I am reading here from anyone is sloppilly driveled,
homogeneously conglomerated, semen and stomach fluid admixture,
of Peer review academia today!
That is it! NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS!
WHY IS THIS NOT BRAINWASHING!
ANSWER ME THAT!

 

timefor_truth
06-11-2007, 10:39 AM
This forums dialogs would be translated to in the public in the form of:
Explain to me the murder of [Ken Kronberg]!
"Where did you get the source for that murderer?"
WHO CARES YOU ARE A COWARD FOR NOT ADDRESSING THIS QUESTION!
"What do you mean? I merely ask how did you know it was the person who you say did the murder that actually did the murder?"
SEE ALL THESE LAROUCHIES ARE THE SAME!
LOOK AT HIS METHOD OF ELUDING THE QUESTION WITH HIS CLEVER RHETORIC!
BEWARE RIGHT NOW HE IS TRYING TO TAP INTO YOUR MIND AND BRAINWASH YOU!!!
"Wait look I dont understand.
Do you just want me to answer the question
and imply that such a murder did take place because I don't even know who Ken Kronberg is."
THAT IS THEIR METHOD RIGHT THERE!
HE UTTERS OR CHANTS MANY NAMES OF FIGURES WHO ARE DEAD & IN HISTORY SO AS TO DIZZY YOUR MIND THEN DIRECTLY WILL PENETRATE YOUR THOUGHTS IN ORDER TO MAKE YOU A MIND SLAVE! THIS IS HOW THEY HAVE RECRUITED SO MANY HELPLESS KIDS OFF OF THESE COLLEGE CAMPUSES!
"wait but did'nt you just say my method was..."
AHHH CLOSE YOUR EARS HE IS TRYING TO ACCESS MY MIND RIGHT NOW! STAY AWAY FROM THEM THEY ARE A CULT OF PERSONALITY (whatever that means)! THEY ARE ANTI-SEMITES!
LOOK AT THESE QUOTES (even though we don't understand them)! Ahhhhhhh!
"O..K!... That was my cue to leave right there"
And then the larouchie just leaves...

 

eaglebeak
06-11-2007, 10:40 AM
Don't kid yourself--LaRouche's followers may sleep only three hours a night, but he himself sleeps a very great deal. As his son Danny once said to me, "Creative people need a lot more sleep than other people. My dad says so."
etc.

 

sancho
06-11-2007, 10:58 AM
His grandfather must be visiting him - in the Laughing Academy.

 

eaglebeak
06-11-2007, 11:20 AM
Time for Truth, you just wrote the following:
Explain to me the murder of [Ken Kronberg]!
"Where did you get the source for that murderer?"
WHO CARES YOU ARE A COWARD FOR NOT ADDRESSING THIS QUESTION!
"What do you mean? I merely ask how did you know it was the person who you say did the murder that actually did the murder?"
SEE ALL THESE LAROUCHIES ARE THE SAME!
LOOK AT HIS METHOD OF ELUDING THE QUESTION WITH HIS CLEVER RHETORIC!
BEWARE RIGHT NOW HE IS TRYING TO TAP INTO YOUR MIND AND BRAINWASH YOU!!!
"Wait look I dont understand.
Do you just want me to answer the question
and imply that such a murder did take place because I don't even know who Ken Kronberg is."

  • * *
    Where did the word murder come in on this thread? Where did anyone mention "the person who you say did the murder"? I thought we were asking you about the suicide of Ken Kronberg, the background for it, LaRouche's role, etc. No one used the word murder except for you.
    Was that a Cranes of Ibykus moment there?
    And what do you mean you don't even know who Ken Kronberg is? Why not?
    No one in the LaRouche movement should feel able to say that with impunity--especially after LaRouche's letter about his death, the EIR package about him--weren't you paying attention to Lyn? What about Fidelio?
 

shadok
06-11-2007, 11:25 AM
I feel sorry for his grandfather, a bit worried because he s ill.
I think timefor_truth doesn't realize this forum is the worse place to start up a cult (since he wants to supersede god-lyn).
Here are some good tips for you , timefor_truth, on how to become a cult leader:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E
(and by the way, get some sleep)
note: sorry I cannot leave my computer easily, I m using it at my workplace - ever heard of earning money, career, family? Yes, I know, I suppose I am a "degenerate"

 

charltonrom
06-11-2007, 11:30 AM
Truth-Time-Timmie: Don't worry, no one could belittle you, you are already a gnatty microscopic cult monad, no smaller can you get. But maybe you'd better take a break and go double your cube, before your heartbeat gets too rapid; with all your talk of semen, one has to wonder.

 

borisbad
06-11-2007, 11:41 AM
Charltonrom your postings are definitely achieving a Rabelaisian lucidity that can only be quantified using the hypothesis of the higher hypothesis (or is that passe) or perhaps Goedel's null hypothesis.
I dare say I was confused by the amount of time TFT had to write his posts between deployments, listening to Harley or Phil's briefings and/or going to Beltran workshops. I see a posting at 3:00 a.m. which should give TFT plenty of time to get up at 6:00 am to do a campus or intersection deployment.
It seems interesting how much TFT discusses the curvature of space. I am not a mathematician or a physicist but I believe that Einstein definitely applied Riemanian mathematics to his ideas about the curvature of space. Early on in his career, LaRouche considered Einstein to be one of the accepted geniuses who contributed to the advancement of modern physics. Later on, however, around the time that Lyn began his denunciations of Bertrand Russell and the peace movement, Einstein (who of course also suffers from being Jewish) became posted as a fraud manipulated by Bertrand Russell who was created by the media to offset the true Riemanian conception of physics that only LaRouche and perhaps Vernadsky understood. I do notice that in Sept. 2006 LaRouche writes an article in which he again places Einstein in the Riemannian parthenon.

 

timefor_truth
06-11-2007, 01:17 PM
HA HA is that the best you all could "come" up with!!
(for little char char "cume" up
[signifying the ferocity of the heaving action
hinting at suffering from
post traumatic stress disorder])
For all to see!
Come witness this travesty!
I enter the home of many men who swap bodily fluids on a daily basis!
As I stated initially, I have made work of these Brainwashed bastards!
None have stood up to my challenge!
I didn't even pull out the heavy fire! I had assumed some one would put some of their original work down.
Ah oh well!
Not only do I have better fish to fry, I have better people from which to share how to effectively fry fish!
This exchange is a definite pedagogical example of such!
Is their more work to be accomplished here?
Nay...
It is finished!

 

earnest_one
06-11-2007, 03:02 PM
A question about the attacks upon "sense perception":
The whole line of reasoning seems like malarkey to the 1,000 power, at least to me.
Through what agent or vehicle or route does the brain receive information? Is it not our "sense perception"?
Time for Timeout is able to read via his eyes. Eyesight is one of our senses. And if he could not read, perhaps he could hear. And if he could not hear, perhaps he could feel touch. And if he did not possess any of these, perhaps he could learn view smell, or taste. And if he had none of these senses, where would he be, what would he be?
That we have brains is hardly a great discovery. That sense perception alone is not enough is hardly a new insight. Just because it is not stressed in school, doesn't make it news. LaRouche has a point, but the point is trivial, to anyone who actually uses their brain.
But if we had no senses, no sense perception, how would we learn anything at all?
The whole LaRouche attack -- the whole subject -- appears to be sophistry of the highest order. Either that or the people involved (the victim/recipients) are simply morons.
There is nothing original in the observation that sense perception alone is not sufficient to explain how people think and reason.
I find the whole discussion inane. At root, it appears that followers of LaRouche never heard about the ability of humans to use higher brain functions -- that their first introduction to this was LaRouche and his tortured speech and writings.
Again, I fail to see what objection sane people have to sense perception? Without it we would not know anything about our world, would not be able to communicate, or have contact with each other.
People have brains. Brains are fundamentally different than sense organs. So what? All my life I thought this was well understood, well accepted. Instead it appears that it is big news.

 

earnest_one
06-11-2007, 03:12 PM
Here is a similar con:
The business about the circle and the approximations to it by polygons with larger and large number of sides. LaRouche and crew used to rant from the rooftops that there is a great, nontrivial difference between a circle and a high-order polygon inscribing or circumscribing it.
"You can NEVER get to a circle using polygons!"
The key technical issue was the observation that as the number of sides to the polygons grow, so do the number of "points" -- points are where the edges meet. Points are discontinuities; they are fundamentally different than the "smooth" circle. Here Cusa apparently enters into the picture.
So, as the argument goes, the larger the number of sides, the more points we have. More points means the less similarity to the circle. Indeed, instead of converging to the circle, the polygon approximation actually DIVERGES from it.
Sounds like a fine argument, no? NO!!! It is inane, it is stupid, it is specious. Such arguments only work with people who have lost their ability to think.
As the number of sides increase, the ANGLE between adjacent sides DECREASES. LaRouche says "more points" but in fact these "points" are becoming less and less "pointy". As the number of sides increase, it becomes increasingly difficult to detect/measure/find these points. The approximation becomes "smoother" rather than more pointy.
Review the thirty-odd years of moronic blather about how the circle is a different "species from the polygonal approximation. All this is designed to appeal to brain damaged people.
The angles between adjacent sides approach straight lines, so the "points" become less pointy. And these morons want to lecture you about how to do science?!!!
The whole thing is inane. It is as uninteresting as the business about sense perception. Wake up kids. A Charlatan/fraud of the highest order is taking you for a ride. Get some sleep and start to think for yourself

 

charltonrom
06-11-2007, 03:51 PM
Timmie, I hope your intersection and cardtable signs evince better spelling. What's quota these days? Or are you still sucking teat from the Baby Boomers in your local?
Your utterances will be preserved for our Archive. They make an excellent example of the devotee.
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 11, 2007)

 

shadok
06-11-2007, 04:41 PM
earnest_one
just a quick comment on "sense perception organs" v "brain". All the scientific research in this area (neurobiology, cognitive sciences) agree that the raw information coming from our senses is already "discriminated", treated, transformed into simple patterns within our brain, regardless we are observing humans or animals. It s all in the brain! So much for the so-called opposition between "sense perception" and "brain". It simply doesn't exist. And of course, i agree with you, without our senses, what would be our brain worth? This is the same idiotic opposition between Plato V. Aristotle, Mind V. Matter, Noumenes V. Phe-noumenes etc It s old school rubbish. Science and philosophy have moved beyond that "fundamental dualism". Larouche is a "dualist/manichean". It s Cowboys V Indians on a metaphysical level.
By the way, even Nicholas of Cusa considered Plato and Aristotle were saying the same thing, but in different ways... It s in his "idiota de mente" and obviously W Wertz never translated this one... (would you believe?, Cusa disagreeing with the "inner elite" pamphlet... what a shocker)

 

shadok
06-11-2007, 04:53 PM
as for the circle V. polygons, again it s a fallacy whose "hereditary principle" is rooted into this "cowboys V Indians metaphysics"... It s simple infinitesimal calculus, solved 300 years ago. When you manage to define algebraically the "error" between the polygonal solution to the circle problem, then when you reduce this error to zero, your answer is exact. This "zero value" is called a differential... Simple no? No masturbation involved, I m afraid.

 

xlcr4life
06-11-2007, 05:08 PM
Gee, all I asked for was a comment on whether Lyn's story of Chris White being brainwashed was a hoax or not and we get this. For you yutes out there who have come in from card table shrining and breathing exhaust fumes all day, ask your self if T4T is employable in the outside world if this is what being a full time member does for you.
Earnest one mentioned something a while back which really hit home for me after leaving the LC and having to figure out what to do. In returning to school for my presesnt profession we had basic chemistry and physics courses to take. In each of those classes many of the names being mentioned were the names of the ever increasing list of Lyn's villains. As Earnest one simply stated the world has advanced every year by the inventions of people who use the laws of physics and math which are deemed evil by the cult.
If you pay attention in class and have a good instructor you will usually get a history of a field and find out how initial ideas were improved or supplanted with better ways of doing something. When conflicts arose over ownership, you usually found out about legal issues and courts instead of cults of personality.
I can think of so many fields where you see how products or processes developed where at each moment someone could declare that the "State of the Art" has been achieved. Only a fool would believe that there is only a single way to make something better and for some strange reasons, nations run by cults of personality never seem to be world class leaders in anything except suffering and misery. Take those individuals out of those stifling places and into freer areas and they can flourish.
That is basically what we find when we examine exlcers who leave the bizarro world and use THEIR talents for THEIR rewards.
I view the problem of how to get to a circle via polygons resolved by viewing my computer monitor or TV screen. In my field we use monitors to view things and knowing the size and shape of something has improved over time as pixel resolution increases. I do not think a LYM trained employee could figure out what a basic employee of a computer monitor firm understands which is that by increasing screen resolution from 768 x 1024 to 720 X 1280 to 1980 X 1080 to a now incredible 7680 x 4800 or nearly 37,000,000 pixels your circle will look better on the screen.
At each stage of increase in resolution a circle will from go a rough edged circle to one which has reached and surpassed the limits of your eyes. Indeed this raises another fundamental question of why anything touched by Lyn is nuts which is do you need a 37 million pixel monitor at a few hundred thousand dollars when the 149 dollar monitor I bought last week is sufficient?
For the billions who look at a computer screen, a 149 dollar monitor is very good. For doing critical work it will not, for some esoteric work you may need 37 million pixels. In BizArro world you do not have the emotional, physical or mental basis to make decisions, so Lyn will make it for you.

 

xlcr4life
06-11-2007, 05:10 PM
Here is another example. When an investment firm made a bid for Chrysler, the LYM are screaming about a massive bill to retool the auto plants for Maglevs or something else which cost a gazillion dollars. The new investment company is raping the company and we need a to invest a few trillion dollars to save it.It never occured to them that maybe the problem was that Mercedes Benz overpaid for Chrysler and the actual fair market value of the company is 5 billion which MB will take to cut losses. I and others here went throught this in 1979 when Chrysler made crappy cars which piled up in dealer lots. We ran this picture of New Dodges for months about how we need to have the congress pass a bill to spend a gazillion dollars to retool Chrysler.
Maybe the issue is that Chrysler makes cars which less people want to buy. Maybe their are quality issues and models which are behind in technology. I have yet to read an EIR article about how Toyota has sold nearly a million Priuses in a market which did not exist 5 years ago. Neither a word on Honda which sells a ton of cars made in the USA. You can make issues about labor cotracts, local taxes, insurance costs and other expenses for this business which determine profitability. You do not find that in the LC since what passes for eco fin is silly. Rich Freeman is a part time Leesburg teacher who was made poor by Lyn, not the world economy.
Besides, almost all of the leadership in the LC asked for Hondas when given a choice between a Dodge and an Accord.
If you find something where LYN is correct, just keep reading because the lunacy will come out pretty soon. Most members knew enough to stop at a certain point when calling a contact because we sounded nuts. You could make a case for the construction of more nuclear plants and then Lyn would issue a demand that 1000 be built in 5 years or we will enter a new dark age. This mularky is to keep yutes impressed who do not know better.
What really bothers a yute and a Leesburg/LC deadender is that after 40 years of this nonsense or even a year of this, their friends who left and classmates have moved on with their lives and are doing better. A few years becomes a decade and soon you run into people you know who show you pictures of their kids entering college instead of dropping out. You get invited to a dinner in a house someone owns instead of a dirty , filthy flop house. Their friends are busy on weekends with their kids or just doing nothing. Books are written, published and sold. Inventions are being patented. Ex members are financing projects around the world.
The only reason many of us show up here is because of Jeremiah Duggan, Ken Kronberg and how we think the world is a better place when yutes figure out how this 40+ year side show of scams , criminals acts, delusions, abuse and Lyn's illusions have only benefitted Lyn and the scam artists who took him for millions.
We have a case here where a probable fictitious invention named MR. ED and THE MAJOR , an imaginary CIA liason to Lyn has more brains than all of the members who raise the money for Lyn to send to them combined.
Made up people have more of a handle on how Lyn works than real people! Lyn's son Danny is not in the cult but he demanded the son's and daughters of LCers to worship him. I have to get that memo by LYN in the Ibykus barn back here again.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

charltonrom
06-11-2007, 05:41 PM
Con Mass mit Lyn
(Sung to the tune of the Rolling Stones "I Can't Get No Satisfaction")
Con Mass mit Lyn,
LYM, und Helga
Con Mass mit Lyn,
Phil, und Schlelga
How sie try, und sie try,
Da sie try, und sie try
Con Mass mit Lyn!
Con Mass mit Lyn!
When zu driving down ze street
und ze light turns und on his feet
stands die Man mit ze funny sign
ist not same as before time
Con Mass Mit Lyn!
Con Mass Mit Lyn!
When zu calling on ze phone
und hearing you der krazy tone
und den kommt die money plea
ist not gut, not gut für me
Con Mass Mit Lyn!
charltonrom@gmail.com
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 11, 2007)

 

earnest_one
06-11-2007, 06:28 PM
About that circle/polygon:
In 1995 Kathy Wolfe -- a LaRouchie -- published something, now found in the "American Almanac". Part of it makes sense, part of it complete rubbish. Here's the money quote:
"Cusa--to the contrary--discovered, that no matter how many sides the straight-line polygon has, it will never be a circle. There will always be a clear distinction between the straight sides of the polygons, and the curve of the circle.
In fact, the closer the polygons seem to come to the circle, the more corners or vertices they have--the less like a circle they are! The polygons based on the square, based on the straight line, are simply a different species from the circle, which is based on the higher curve."
Again, note the insanity: "In fact, the closer the polygons SEEM to come to the circle, the MORE corners or vertices they have--the LESS like a circle they are!"
This is, of course, true -- there ARE more corners, more vertices, and in THIS sense it IS becoming less like the circle. BUT the THOUGHT NEVER occurred to Wolfe or LaRouchie XYZ that these corners, these vertices are becoming LESS sharp, LESS pointed, LESS like corners/vertices -- indeed, the whole object is becoming smoother and MORE like a circle.
It is indeed true that the circle is fundamentally different, mathematically, from the polygon, but the intuitive argument given by the LaRouchie is fraudulent.
I mention this only because it was a big deal, some years back. The example was given over and over and over again, as if it had some deep significance, some deep value. It is a perfect illustration of how mindless this group really is, just like their idea that sense perception is some sort of evil concoction, foisted upon us by the oligarchy, or the neocons.
As XLCR points out, progress is ongoing -- right now. Wondrous activity is taking place, right now. Beautiful inventions are coming to market, wonderful products are seeing the light of day. Everyone is capable of having independent thoughts. The libraries are still open. Beautiful books are waiting to be read.
Are things ideal, is the world in great shape? No! Roughly speaking, many things are an absolute nightmare. But there are many ways to effect change. LaRouche is a DEAD END, a mindless waste, and an insult to any thinking person's sensibilities and intelligence.
Don't be a SLAVE to some twisted egomaniac who thinks he is the center of the world. Use your OWN brains, jettison all the rotting moronic nonsense AND THE PEOPLE WHO PROMOTE IT.

 

charltonrom
06-12-2007, 05:40 AM
Since the yutes, to judge by Timmie, are undoubtedly too far gone and too willfully ignorant to question their own indoctrination, it falls to us.
General Kranko's/Colonel Blimpoid's Doctrine on the Origin of the Calculus: Leibniz's "uniquely original discovery of the calculus" came about from studying "the Kepler problem".
Sorry Timmie and all you other benighted saps stomping around and trumpeting Lyn as the American Plato or Socrates or maybe the Great American Sophist would be more apt---it just didn't happen that way. You've been lied to. Bruce/Colonel Blimpoid is too well read not to know; I conclude he deludes himself in the process of indoctrinating you. Lyn's uniquely original genius must be maintained as a doctrine element you see; truth be damned. Your Socratic instructors are cynical liars.
Ever heard of FUNCTIONS? Where do you think this concept came from? Did it always exist? It didn't---in fact although it wasn't rigorously defined nor notated yet ( f(x) was Euler's "uniquely original discovery"---Euler of course is now in the Demon Pool), the function concept arose in the years just before the origination of the calculus through the mathematical and PHYSICAL investigations of people like Roberval, Wallis, Cardan, Tartaglia, Torricelli, Barrow, Lyn's "house-lackey to Paolo Sarpi" Galileo, and James Gregory. Look 'em up. There was a lot going on besides the oligarchy trying to stomp on Cusa and Kepler.
History has a developmental character. Things like the calculus don't just pop into people's heads like the Uniquely Original (I'll say!) LaRouche-Schacht-Riemann Method did into Lyn's. A range of problems both physical and purely mathematical—tangent and quadrature-problems (like squaring the circle)--- were under intense examination in the period leading to the key works of Newton and Leibniz. Quadratures, maxima and minima problems, and especially problems of motion, set the stage for Newton and Leibniz.
Newton had algorithms or solution procedures for differentials and for integration.
You've been had.
2 b continued
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

timefor_truth
06-12-2007, 08:52 AM
1. Our brain is not invisible and
neither is the electronic activity
that occurs when stimuli are
comprehended through the synaptic clefs to our brain.
All that and more can be read by today's medical instruments.
So I obviously am not talking of the EMPIRICALLY adduced brain am I?
I say it is in the same field of activity actually!
Keep trying though you have asked some interesting questions that hardly need my input,
at least if you are earnest with yourself!
Nonetheless here is a hint:
Can the CONTENTS of a thought be picked up by
instruments in science today?
WHY!
2. And lastly one can not ascend to real understanding of the Calculus
if one is looking at the development of the Calculus in such light
as mechanistic or equation advances!
Here is the paradox!
All that has been outlined since
Archimedes were piecemeal advancements in algebra,
in other words,
all advancements were within the same bounds as either simple
arithmetic or algebra!
Now you yourself earlier stated
discontinuities are no new thing to scientists,
right?
Was the calculus Discontinuous,
Mathematically and Ontologically?
Then that is the nature of what I am talking about!
Something discontinuous!
For instance popular academia, in studying Archimedes more and more,
have found that a number of the mechanics of Isaac Newton and barrow
preceded both of them.
These were found in Archimedes' Papyrus'.
Now where is the discontinuous activity there!
Have you looked at Archimedes Mechanics?
Do the work!
(*psst it's on the wLym site*)
But not to allow you to escape
with a wiggle room answer, as you have done before,
here is the clincher?
Explain to me why Newton's "Calculus"
could not COMPREHEND THE NATURE OF
COMPLEX NON-ALGEBRAIC
"TRANSCENDENTAL" CURVES LIKE THE CATENARY!
That my answer my Friend is something NEVER encountered in the domain of
algebra!
Everything else is!
Larouche that no good "deceiver" is at it again!
That Cultist and his youth DEceiver, DECEIVer, Oracle at Dlephi uggh DECEIVER,
amalgam, with his DEVILish tricks
ano!fh@fsh@vsbk.$bv%vjv*hs^vh%kv? f(x)=DECEIVER!
Right?
Don't jump to that conclusion!
Do the work!
(P.s f(x) doesn't count too linear! the curvature of space would spit it out!
And that my friend= REALITY)

 

timefor_truth
06-12-2007, 09:04 AM
All prescribed to you by doctor truth!
Have YOU take you daily dose of truth today!

 

timefor_truth
06-12-2007, 09:09 AM
THAT WAS FOR YOU CHARly! Mispelt and delivered to your optic nerves!

 

earnest_one
06-12-2007, 09:29 AM
Here is some truth:
"LaRouche" is simply a cheap vehicle for learning how to bull. It appeals to young people who are disaffected, who want an easy way to feel superior – a way to catapult themselves above others without doing any real work.
There are many deep questions, in science, medicine, and philosophy.
Nobody knows how thoughts are generated or where ideas really come from. These are truly interesting issues.
Note, however, that it does not take too much thought to see that LaRouche et al., have nothing original to say about these matters.
It is all advertisements. It never gets anywhere. It is masturbation before pubescence. Nothing of substance ever comes out, despite the vast amount of vigorous motion.
In my next post, I shall address a more serious issue:
There is evidence, in full view, that LaRouche is actually working for the oligarchy -- that he is an enemy of working people everywhere.
LaRouche is Cheney's best friend.
The evidence is in full view -- a situation similar to what Poe described in "The Purloined Letter".

 

timefor_truth
06-12-2007, 09:29 AM
http://www.wlym.com/%7eseattle/dynamis/index.html
For Larouche-Reimann method Inquiries.....
Do the work!

 

timefor_truth
06-12-2007, 09:37 AM
Proof that what we say are Lies comes from
SHOWING THE FRAUD AND DISCONNECTEDNESS FROM REALITY OF WHAT WE WRITE AND
REPLACING IT WITH WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON!
Not just using words that enemies use, to keep people from ever investigating what we say to begin with!
VERY CLEVER! BUT SOME INDIVIDUALS ARE A LOT SMARTER THAN YOU GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR!

 

borisbad
06-12-2007, 10:46 AM
I'll refrain from discussing the circle polygon duality but I do remember earlier discussions about xeno's paradox, which follows alone similar lines. That if you follow a line between two points, continually decreasing the distance by half, you will never arrive from point A to Point B because you're steps will go 1/2, 1/4/, 1/8 ad infinitum. Therefore, in theory if not in practice, we can never arrive at Point B. An interesting conundrum but for those who are profoundly crippled, we do manage to transport ourselves from Point A to Point B every day. What is being suggested by tft is pure neo-platonism, and nothing new. He situates thought outside the structure of the human brain. Instruments cannot detect thought contents but they certainly can detect brain activity including higher order brain activity associated with problem solving, etc. I guess TFT believes that the mind operates independently of the human brain (certainly a metaphysical proposition not having much to do with modern science or with theories earlier advanced by the likes of Karl Marx as to the physical origins of thought. Most of what TFT writes is really the same kind of idealist rubbish that Marx, and Lyn at one point in time critiqued German critical philosophy on. To paraphrase something Karl Marx once said about German critical philosophy, the Germans were great pioneers in creating tremendous metaphysical sandcastles in the air because they lacked a state and were divided into a bunch of competing nation-states before the time leading into the unification of Germany. Lyn, being a person who has no real power is also great at creating self-contained mental schemata that can keep his followers in an endless loop. I guarantee, I can fashion a vision of a utopian world (Thomas More did it a few hundred years ago), which would solve all the world's problems, whether it's from maglev's on earth or space stations on Mars, but pretending that Lyn is getting us there is like trying to get from point A to point B by contnuously halving the distance.

 

charltonrom
06-12-2007, 12:17 PM
The Pure-Truth Posse hits the trail
Colonel Barely Schlelga briefs the troops afore'n they hit the trail:
"Remember now your lessons from General Kranko and Colonel Blimpoid: the calculus sprang fully formed and perfect from the brow of Goodestfried Chipnitz, like Athena from the brow of Zeus. Immediately upon the birth of that most perfect and unconflicted and truly completest of all instruments it were attacked in vile manner, by the crafty Zenithians, using their nasty agents Harpo Carpi and Gummyleo. You see, the Zenithians instantly recognized this virginal mathematic berth to be the potential carrier of such unpleasantries as better hygiene for the mobs and future republics based on Plato's agape notion, and realized: Goodestfried Chipnitz must be stopped!"

 

realme
06-12-2007, 01:37 PM
One of the joys of being an ex-member is you don't have to read crap like this anymore. I hope we're done soon goading this poor misguided little Timmy fellow.

 

eaglebeak
06-12-2007, 01:40 PM
I see there's a new game in town: http://larouchewatch.blogspot.com/
from an old friend.
So tell me, Time for Truth kiddiwinks, you haven't had any run-ins with anybody like Bevel, have you? (And don't suppose the org's leadership is free of that type.)
Also note the (to you) distressing fact that the German Parliament (that's the GERMAN Parliament, not the British) is looking again at Jeremiah Duggan's death--at least, the Green Party is raising an inquiry, and as you probably don't know, the Green Party is not politically insignificant in Deutschland.
Are you gonna tell me you don't know who Duggan is, either? Just like you claimed you don't know who Ken Kronberg is? PUH-leeze, Little Boots.
(Message edited by eaglebeak on June 12, 2007)

 

xlcr4life
06-12-2007, 03:44 PM
The cult has used both connecto and the six degrees of larouche in recent briefings to show T4T what really happened in the Duggan death. The briefing takes a scandal involving the British, a British arms producer, the Saudi gov and Baroness Symmons to link every thing together as one big conspiracy to stop Larouche using the Duggan Death hoax.
Not one word about Bevel in the briefing. Then again, you never see anything about Lyn's former running mates who have had their lives change because of Lyn like Wayne Evans and Billy Davis.
Maybe what the yutes need to do is to force Lyn to run in 2008 and name Dick Cheney as his VP running mate. That is pretty much the kiss of death, bankruptcy and end of Cheney once and for all.
Yutes, in your morning briefings you have seen that I was not kidding about your eventual phase shift into card table shrines for money and choking on exhaust fumes. Every day so far you are reading about the wonderfull progress made by squads in raising money for Lyn, er LPAC. Detroit now has a 500 dollar a week goal and if you hit the top mark that day, you too can get your name in the briefing as a poster child for Lyn. Now you have a goal of needing to raise money to send LYM members to DC. Lyn has even thought of this and you boys and girls can now sell a "Student LPAC" membership for 25 bucks along with a 25 dollar EIW sub for email updates to students.
Once you hit the streets yutes, it will never end as Lyn and the cult will have an endless parade of emergencies for you to be out there around the clock.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

timefor_truth
06-12-2007, 06:39 PM
Good bye forever! This has been revealing in more ways than I am sure you all can imagine!
Time Timmie taught these tykes to think!
Impressive indeed!

 

charltonrom
06-12-2007, 09:27 PM
Tft: Or, if you're gone, any other Yute who might wander in, or to others impacted by Lyn's dogmess:
Actually, I don't I find it (Leibniz' calculus) at all, very discontinu-itous. In fact I think overall it is HIGHLY continuous with what had gone before, an evolution of prior methods, concerns and problems. Your cryptic style indicates you have learned well the first lesson from the Master: don't say anything too clearly, in order to appear profound. Nonetheless I wade in, in hopes you and others may yet be healed, or at least more miffed off:
The Keynes comments I've already dealt with. They are ignorant, based on a partial sample of Newton's corpus. Why Lyn genuflects to Keynes I can't understand anyway.
On the catenary: maybe Newton just never got around to it. He certainly managed to accomplish a lot of other firsts:
First to state the principle of conservation of angular momentum ("Laws of Motion," 1666)
First to demonstrate variable refrangibility and heterogeneity of light, versus the reigning theory of modification espoused by all for centuries, including Huygens ("Of Colours" 1666)
Defined diametral hyperbola bisecting chords and gave first systematic taxonomy of cubic curves, comprising 58 types ("Enumeration of Cubics," circa 1669)
First results concerning convergence of the binomial series ("De Analysi" 1665)
Proved that complex roots of an equation occur in pairs; also offered (albeit without proof) a rule to determine the number of imaginary roots of polynomial equations. (Arithmetica Universalis" 1707)
Conceptualized inverse relations of tangents and quadratures; defined hyperbolic and parabolic approaches to fundamental theorem of the calculus ("Method" paper c.1665)
Found areas of 3 perviously insoluble curves, the Gutschaven quartic, cissoid, and conchoid. ("Method of Fluxions," 1671)
Laid the basis for classical interpolation theory ("Regula differentialis" c. 1677)
Additionally he spurred on the development of chemistry through the Queries included in his Optics; designed instruments to grind concave hyperbolic lenses; and built the first working reflecting telescope, as admitted by figures such as Cassini and Hevelius. It was the Principia, not Leibniz' Tentamen, that set the pace for research in the coming century, in the inverse problem of central forces, cometography, the shape of rotating bodies, perturbation theory, lunar theory, and tides.
Not bad; but to Lyn and ignorant, credulous dupes like Pure Method Timmie, Newton is a "fraud." Even if one acknowledges that Leibniz clarified some of the concepts and invented a superior notation, there can be ZERO justification for Lyn's petty little diatribe-ing. But crap makes Lyn's world go round.
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 13, 2007)

 

charltonrom
06-12-2007, 09:28 PM
Bonus Debunk: Newton's "De Analysi" is the paper John Collins showed to Leibniz in 1676. Later Leibniz denied he had seen it.
Leibniz also denied he had read Newton's Principia, when publishing his own Tentamen de Motuum Coelestium Causis in 1689 (2 years after the publication of the Principia.) This has recently been demonstrated by Domenico Bertolini Meli, through examining previously unpublished papers of Leibniz. http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0021-1753(199406)85%3A2%3C332%3AEAPNVL%3E2.0.CO%3B2-M
In his letter to Newton dated 1693 Leibniz states: "You have made the astonishing discovery that Kepler's ellipses result simply from the conception of attraction or gravitation and passage in a planet. And yet I would incline to believe that all these are caused or regulated by the motion of a fluid medium..." Here we see clearly that Leibniz, like Huygens and the whole of the scientific community of the age, still conceived orbital motion as caused by some sort of fluid vortex, a la the theory of Descartes.
Newton was not a stooge of the oligarchy. Pure-Truth Tim and his fellow yutes are stooges of the Krankyarchy.
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 13, 2007)

 

charltonrom
06-12-2007, 09:31 PM
Update on "NAZI!" Jurists Roberts and Alito; Five Cases Unanimously Decided http://www.nysun.com/article/56347
Yutes, you are in the service of a bombastic demagogue suffering from demential logorrhea and megalomanic delusions of messiah-dom.
Last year in the briefing it was revealed that the federal budget under Bush was, in fact, not the largest budget ever (which it was); it was in fact a NAZI budget! General Kranko made quite clear over the last year that, in his august opinion, John Roberts and Samuel Alito were not just constructionist-approach/conservative candidates; they were NAZIS!
This sort of cheap demagoguery, utterly contravened by fact and events, dovetails perfectly with Lyn's crude and despicable calumnifications of both contemporary and historical figures like Newton and proves the point: Beware General Kranko!
Quod erat demonstrandum.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

earnest_one
06-13-2007, 08:51 AM
To LaRouche, (almost) everyone is a Nazi except, of course, those people who are/were actual real Nazis!
You are doing fine work, Charltontom. I like the material on Newton. Wonderful summaries, truly.

 

howie
06-13-2007, 09:24 AM
Good bye forever! This has been revealing in more ways than I am sure you all can imagine!
Time Timmie taught these tykes to think!
Impressive indeed!
Uh huh. "Taught these tykes to think". Sure.
Some thoughts.

  1. 1: I think the bulk of the people who congregate at this message board care more about the events of the morning of April 11, 2007 and scattered details regarding Ken Kronberg than the dime a dozen encounter of trying to sort through and straighten out the Larouche Path to Knowledge and Truth.
  2. 2: The Larouche Path to Knowledge and Truth is asinine, setting up falsely strict dichotemies into the formula of, [Column A: fill-in-the-blank Historical Figure in one field of study in one era] versus [Column B: fill-in-the-blank Historircal Figure in one field of study in another era]. Even when, say, Albert Einstein helps lead a paradigm shift in Physics, he does so with every respect to his forebears. But I understand the appeal of the "Versus" [also Conspiratorial] formula Larouche has propagated for Knowledge. It does away with complexity, does away with nuance, and is easier to grasp than actualities. What is interesting is that you can fold a name or two out of column A into Column B over time as you see fit and it doesn't do damage to the set... probably as good an indictment on the Larouche Path to Knowledge and Truth as anything else.
  3. 3: You know something? I am disinclined to save any other post from this most recent slate of "tft" posts except this one:
    http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=4&post=420413#POST420413
  4. 4: Roberts and Alito. The highest profile case that showed a different outcome from the previous Rehnquist Court was that ruling in April over late-term Abortion, the expected 5-4 ruling one would expect. It is politically charged and the politically charged public has every reason and right to march off against the appointments of Roberts and Alito. Larouche is useless in any political discussion, however, and if someone sticks around long enough to pay attention will come forth with full faux-reasoning on why someone of any generic ideological stripe is a Nazi, and not even in terms of a crude insult, literally... tied to Naziism. Bush has a Nazi Budget; Gore has a Nazi Garden. Go figure!
 

sancho
06-13-2007, 09:58 AM
If one wants to have fun with a full summary of the 5/24/07-state-of-the-art verkakte nonsense of LaRouche on every possible issue (including infinitesimals), here you go:
http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2007/3424rules_survival.html
At each point, one wants to object, but one realizes that it is all 100% pure assertion: no attempt is made to provide an argument in support of any one claim. The only possible responses to such a blizzard of mindless rhetoric are (1) to embrace it whole or (2) to walk away from it. Aside from the usual solecisms that have been picked apart here, the whopper that stood out this time round was the baseless deification of FDR. As far as I am aware, only remilitarization boosted the U.S.A. out of the lingering depression; FDR was loved because of the hope that he gave many working people through government programs in the thirties and his role as wartime leader in the forties. Perhaps those more knowledgeable about the period than I can address LaRouche's no doubt fractured-fairy-tale image of Roosevelt.

 

charltonrom
06-13-2007, 12:12 PM
HISTORY FILE: FDR'S DOMESTIC SPYING
On the eve of World War II, with war looming and reports of lurking enemy saboteurs, President Franklin D. Roosevelto ordered Attorney General Robert H. Jackson to use domestic electronic surveillance to target "persons suspected of subversive activities." As President Roosevelt noted, "It is too late to do anything about it after sabotage, assassinations and 'fifth column' activities are completed." Significantly, President Roosevelt's direction was issued despite a statute (Section 605 of the Communications Act of 1934) and Supreme Court precedent (United States v. Nardone, 302 U.S. 379 (1937)) that prohibited such wiretapping.
Once upon a time FDR was a demon, a "zero growth corporatist". Now he's a saint, a Christ even.
No truthfulness. Selective history.
Cheap demagoguery.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

eaglebeak
06-13-2007, 01:01 PM
I agree with Howie.
Timmie the Tyke or whoever is a distraction--also, I think I know who he/she/it is, and if so, that's no tyke.
I think T the T got on here to obfuscate.
So if you're saving posts, Howie, I agree--save the bizarre one where T the T starts screaming about the murder of Ken Kronberg--a word that no one else used--and then says (?!?) "I don't even know who he is"--making him the only LaRouchie around who doesn't....
(Message edited by eaglebeak on June 13, 2007)

 

jmp87
06-14-2007, 02:31 PM
Is it true that Jonothan Tenenbam Left the movement?

 

shadok
06-14-2007, 03:08 PM
Yes. Jonathan Tennenbaum and his wife Rosa left, or were forced to leave the org last year

 

borisbad
06-14-2007, 03:38 PM
If anyone has an interest they can see repeats of the show Mars Underground, featuring ex-LCer Robert Zubrin on the Science Channel. Check your local listings.

 

charltonrom
06-14-2007, 03:48 PM
Mass defections of your senior talent... Doesn't reflect so well. Indicative, one might even say.
When I was in, we didn't just have quotas; we had INDICATIVE quotas! Name your $ target for the morning/afternoon/evening of desperate calling to save the world before the last financial crash which didn't occur. http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/1995/hoarding.html
Many human beings suffer from weak economic conditions in their nations, but by any objective standard, that is PHYSICAL standard, the world economy is expanding. Even Africa seems to be experiencing some growth here and there.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6748281.stm
Of course, this must be a lie as it comes from the BBC. They are No Good, unless they say something Lyn likes. If not, they are in the back pocket of the Oligarchee.
Sell that fear and dogmess, General Kranko.
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 14, 2007)

 

charltonrom
06-14-2007, 04:23 PM
Forthcoming EIR Special Reports:

The Fumbling Balls of the Louse of Spinsor
Satanism is Bad, Yet Good for Business
Would Elmer Fudd's Crucial Role In The Current Strategic Situation Be Acknowledged By a Then-President General Kranko?
Colonel Klink and September 11
Operation Whorez
Who Is Not Blowing Up the Middle East?
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

xlcr4life
06-14-2007, 06:39 PM
Look for "The Science Channel" cable network. The show with Zubrin is called
"Mars Underground"
Here are some times you can TIVO, PVR, DVR or tape using technology which was stolen by the Satanic Aristotlelians 6,000 years ago after they finished planting native species in the Hanging Gardens of Babylon.
Jun 16, 10:00 pm
Jun 17, 1:00 am
Jun 17, 5:00 am
Jun 17, 6:00 pm
Jul 10, 8:00 pm
Jul 10, 11:00 pm
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

xlcr4life
06-14-2007, 07:01 PM
While we are waiting for the TV shows, Let us review some coverage of the alleged incest indictment against Lyn's VP candidate for 1992, when this was going on. What you will soon be reading about is how Bevel went to Nebraska for something the cult was involved with called the Franklin Coverup Hoax.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_King

I was long gone by the time the cult began another round of using Satan, The Beatles and chld kidnappings to attempt to rewrite Lyn's conviction. Perhaps someone can clue us in on how Long Bevel was on the payroll of the cult.
Here is something from Leesburg.
http://www.leesburg2day.com/articles/2007/06/14/news/fp904obevel061407.txt
Loudoun Circuit Court Judge James H. Chamblin posted a $30,000 bond for the release of James L. Bevel, a civil rights leader who worked closely with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in the 60s and who now faces up to 20 years in the Loudoun jail after an alleged incestuous relationship that took place more than a decade ago.
At a bond hearing this morning, Chamblin said Bevel was a candidate for bond so long as he remained under supervision, did not travel outside of Washington, DC, or Virginia, and enrolled in the court's pretrial program, which requires an appearance at the Loudoun County Courthouse in Leesburg once a week. Additionally, he would be prohibited from contact with anyone under 18.
A Loudoun grand jury indicted Bevel last month on one count of committing unlawful fornication. Bevel was arrested in Alabama and returned to Loudoun to be held at the Loudoun County Adult Detention Center until his bond hearing today.
With a careful stride, the dishevele d 70-year-old civil rights leader took his seat beside his attorney, Buta Biberaj. Bevel was wearing an orange and white striped jump suit, with the words "Loudoun County Prisoner" in bold black letters running down one of his pant legs. He also wore handcuffs and shackles, whose subtle clinks echoed inside the courtroom whenever he moved.

 

xlcr4life
06-14-2007, 07:03 PM
According to the indictment, the crime occurred in Loudoun between Oct. 14, 1992 and Oct. 14, 1994, when the victim-Bevel's daughter-was between 13 and 17 years old.
Leesburg Police spokesman Jeff Dube previously said the complaint against Bevel surfaced in September 2005, but would not release any more details about the investigation.
During the bond hearing this morning, Assistant Commonwealth's Attorney Gigi Lawless said Bevel, who lives in Alabama, has adult children by four different women. The children were raised apart from each other, but as they grew up they attempted to get to know one another, Lawless said. It was then discovered that Bevel had had sexual relations with at least one of his daughters for a number of years, she said.
Bevel told his daughter at the time that he was contributing to her "religious training" and that if she thought anything more of what happened between them, she was a "dirty whore," Lawless said the victim told her. At that time, Bevel's daughter was 15.
Years later, the victim and some of her siblings approached Bevel, who-according to Lawless-did not deny the actions for which his children accused him.
Instead, "he does admit to engaging in inappropriate sexual behavior with his daughter," Lawless said today.
While the majority of the crimes took place out of Virginia, Bevel's daughter decided to contact the Leesburg Police Department and pursue charges in Virginia because felony crimes are not subject to a statute of limitations, Lawless said, adding that at least one of the sex crimes took place in Leesburg in 1994.
Lawless also said that she and Assistant Commonwealth's Attorney Nicole Wittmann believe that Bevel's daughters are not his only victims, saying that they have been receiving calls from people that span the country alleging that they, too, had had sexual relations with Bevel as children.
"Based on the allegations, this defendant is a danger to the community and should be held without bond," Lawless said.
Regardless of what is being said, Biberaj pointed out that the allegations are "suspicions and accusations" and have not yet been proven in court. She added that Bevel will plead not guilty to the charge against him.

 

xlcr4life
06-14-2007, 07:04 PM
"We don't have any specific knowledge," about the truth of any of these allegations, Biberaj said today. "They are just accusations at this point."
There are no statements or evidence saying that anything has happened post-1994, Biberaj said as she argued for Bevel to be released on bond.
She introduced a former pupil of Bevel's, who lives i n Washington, DC, and who agreed to take custody of his mentor until the end of the case if Bevel made bail. Biberaj said the former pupil also would provide for all Bevel's transportation needs to ensure that Bevel arrived for court appointments and did not attempt to flee the area. Abraham also would be responsible for making sure that Bevel did not have any contact with anyone under 18, Biberaj said.
"All things considered, I think he is a candidate for bond," given the restrictions placed upon him if he should make bail, Chamblin said. Until that point, Bevel will remain a prisoner at the Loudoun County Adult Detention Center.
Bevel is credited with playing a key role in some of the country's major civil rights protests, including the 1963 Children's Crusade in Birmingham, AL. He also was a leader of the Freedom Riders to desegregate public accommodations throughout the southern states in the 1960s and was an architect of the March on Washington in 1963 and the Se lma-to-Montgomery march in Alabama in 1965. Bevel also helped organize the Million Man March in Washington in 1995.
In 1992, Bevel was a candidate for Vice President of the United States on the ticket with Lyndon LaRouche, a Loudoun-based political activist and economist who was convicted for mail and tax fraud as well as illegal fundraising practices. LaRouche and Bevel received less than 1 percent of the popular vote.

 

xlcr4life
06-14-2007, 07:09 PM
Here is something from local TV I believe.
http://www.nbc4.com/news/13503426/detail.html?rss=dc&psp=news
Allegations Pour In Against Civil Rights Leader Accused Of Incest
Judge Sets $30,000 Bond For King Confidant
POSTED: 12:35 pm EDT June 14, 2007
UPDATED: 5:15 pm EDT June 14, 2007

LEESBURG, Va. -- Women from across the country have stepped forward with allegations of sexual misconduct against a prominent civil rights leader and one-time running mate of presidential candidate Lyndon LaRouche who has been charged with incest, a prosecutor said Thursday.
The Rev. James L. Bevel, 70, who once worked closely with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and later joined political maverick LaRouche as his vice presidential candidate in 1992, was charged last week with incest -- a felony in Virginia punishable by up to 20 years in prison. Bevel allegedly had sexual relations with one of his daughters some time from 1992 to 1994, when his daughter was a teenager.
Since his arrest, Loudoun County prosecutors "are getting calls from people all over the country saying the defendant engaged in inappropriate sexual conduct," prosecutor Gigi Lawless said at a bond hearing Thursday.

Lawless provided the first detailed explanation of the charges against Bevel since his arrest. She said that Bevel has a number of adult children with four different women and that most did not know each other as they grew up. When some of the adult female children made an effort several years ago to reunite, they realized that they had been sexually abused by Bevel at various points in their childhood, Lawless said. They confronted him, and he acknowledged the sexual contact but dismissed it as "religious training," Lawless said.
One of the daughters later confronted Bevel in a taped conversation. He again acknowledged the sex but chastised his daughter and called her "a dirty little whore for believing it was something other than religious training," Lawless told the judge.
Lawless did not say exactly how many of Bevel's daughters claim they were sexually abused but said that "most if not all" have alleged misconduct.
The daughters contacted police. Though the misconduct occurred in various places across the country, Virginia was the only state that did not have a statute of limitations on incest. The indictment alleges the crime occurred with a child between 13 and 17 years old in the early 1990s. If convicted, Bevel could face up to 20 years in prison.
Lawless argued unsuccessfully that Bevel should be denied bond while he awaits trial, saying he poses a danger to the community. But Circuit Judge James H. Chamblin set a $30,000 bond with the conditions that Bevel avoid contact with children and that he temporarily move from his Alabama home to Washington, D.C., where family friends have agreed to serve as his custodian.
Bevel did not speak during Thursday's hearing, and his wife, Erica Henry, declined comment.
Defense attorney Buta Biberaj said Bevel will plead not guilty but declined to discuss the charges in any detail.
"Right now these are only accusations, allegations," Biberaj said.

 

xlcr4life
06-14-2007, 07:10 PM
Bevel has not been arrested in nearly 40 years, Biberaj said. His previous criminal record consists of contempt of court citations and other charges associated with his desegregation efforts and protests during the civil rights movement, Biberaj said.
Bevel, who worked with King and witnessed his assassination in Memphis in 1968, has played a key role in some of the country's major civil rights protests. He organized the 1963 Children's Crusade in Birmingham, Ala., and was a leader of the Freedom Rides to desegregate public accommodations throughout the South in the early 1960s. And he was an architect of the March on Washington in 1963 and the Selma-to-Montgomery march in Alabama in 1965.
News articles from Nation of Islam publications also credit Bevel as a chief organizer of the Million Man March 1995.
At the time Bevel was LaRouche's running mate, LaRouche was serving a federal prison sentence for conspiracy and mail fraud.
It is not clear whether Bevel is still associated with LaRouche's organization, which is based in Loudoun County. A call to his Schiller Institute was not returned Thursday.

 

earnest_one
06-14-2007, 07:40 PM
jmp87 and xlcr:
It is altogether unclear whether Tennenbaum left the organization. It depends on what the meaning of "left" is and/or what "org" means.
He supposedly left late last year. But if this is true, what was he doing in Moscow, in April, deivering a speech on behalf of LaRouche at the Bering Straits conference? See, for example:
http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2007/3418mendeleyev_bering.html
Perhaps this is simply propaganda, and it never happened. But look at this:
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2007/3422three_toasts.html
The money quote is from Granberg, who also spoke at the conference, just like Tennenbaum. Granberg says:
"One of the speakers at that conference was Mr. [Jonathan] Tennenbaum, who
was introduced as a representative of Mr. LaRouche. Three weeks passed, and
here is Mr. LaRouche."
Some group, associated with the Bering Straits conference, published some of the conference proceedings. It is available on the LaRouche website (and elsewhere)
http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2007/2007_20-29/2007-24/pdf/forum_7.pdf
There, LaRouche's speech appears. And there are pictures of Tennenbaum, speaking at the conference.
In sum, I am unconvinced that Tennenbaum truly left the group or that he was actually kicked out. If he truly left, then WTF is he doing, months later, giving a speech on LaRouche's behalf? Does this make sense to anyone?
Can you explain it XLCR? I think something smells fishy...
Anton Chaiton, and others, seemingly left the org, only to appear later, looking semi-independent, but actually supporting LaRouche.
Personally, I think LaRouche is a creep, an a..hole and a complete fraud of a human being. It is truly amazing that people can "leave" the org yet remain loyal to this world-class creep.

 

sancho
06-14-2007, 09:52 PM
Bevel was - allegedly - just trying to have his own youth movement.
(I can hear the wheels churning at HQ as they try to figure out how to handle this hot potato: for my money they eventually determine that the Baroness, the movie star, the Professor, and Mary Ann were all in on the frame up at the behest of the Satanic Roy Cohn love-object Gilligan.)

 

howie
06-14-2007, 10:18 PM
I always love those middle-ground balanced descriptions.
"Loudoun-based political activist and economist"
"a political maverick"
Yes. That's what one thinks when they hear the name "Lyndon Larouche."

 

xlcr4life
06-15-2007, 04:11 AM
Earnest_One,
Chaitkin never left the cult. There are people who claim to have left, but that is usually to hoodwink others. Security honcho Paul Goldstien claims to have left, but hosts soirries for the cult security chief and a guy code named Carpet who probably recieves more money in one week than the entire LYM payroll!
Maybe Lyn has franchised the cult as you can often see the raw material of the cult end up in Webster Tarpley's material. I once recieved an eamil from a person who was in Leesburg as a guest and heard a talk by Lyn about how some of the memebers need to "go out and forage". It is not uncommon for cults to send out their people to infiltrate or diseminate more lunacy written with out the cult leaders name attached. Mon has hundreds of front groups. Always keep in mond that spending years and years in a cult like this of endless hysteria will screw you up big time.
On Tennenbaum I am also confused. Lyn denounced him to the LYM after most of the German's left the Euro LC in an April 2007 cadre school.

  • *
    LAROUCHE: No, but I mean, but the point is, is most people
    who have been through educational processes, don't know how to
    educated. I do. You know how to educate? Do, as little
    teaching as possible. And create a task-oriented force where
    they educate themselves. And you simply are there, to help the
    process, to nudge it, to be present if needed.
    Now, we have two things going. For example, what I did--I
    did move things up here to the farm area, because I said it's
    crazy having everything scattered all over the place. Come up
    here. So we have, now, up here, we have our general security
    function, I'm here, Helga could be here--we always are awaiting
    her arrival, but she's needed there, hmm? We have three donkeys,
    we used to have four. And we have some people who look like
    donkeys, but they're not. [explosive laughter] They come and
    visit once in a while.
    All right, what I did is I moved the youth {out of
    Leesburg}. I moved them away from the Boomer center. Because,
    what was blocking them, was being in the Boomer center; the
    Boomers were always annoying them, telling them what to do,
    advising them, discouraging them. No!
    So, what I did, is I defined mission-orientation. I said,
    "Okay, you're going through four basic steps. You're going to go
    Kepler I, Kepler II, Gauss I, and Riemann." Hmm? We also set
    up, with John Sigerson--we set up, and we were able to do it,
    because of the work on harmonics, by Kepler II; because the
    people who went through Kepler II now understood this
 

xlcr4life
06-15-2007, 04:12 AM
vision/hearing problem of harmonics. So therefore, what we did,
is, we got John up here, once a week most weeks, and we'd run a
session, as you know about, we'd run the session which runs to
four to five hours, on Wednesday. And all kinds of people come
through here, and we have a music program.
Now, how much work do I do on the music program? Almost
none. How much time do I spend on the science program? Almost
none. They educate themselves.
See, I tried to get Jonathan Tennenbaum to cut it out! But
he was too conditioned. You don't educate people by lecturing
them. ... by encouraging them {to develop}.
You don't {nurse} them. You don't suckle them, like babies. You
create a task-oriented team of people, who are going to work and
accept a challenge of solving a problem, of doing a mission. You
throw them in the water, and say, "swim." And if they get into
trouble and they call for you, you come. And you do what's
necessary, and then go away. I'm an excellent teacher, because I
don't do that other stuff! Of standing people and just lecturing
people. I'll lecture people at times, but that's to get the
whole thing started. The real work starts once I go away. If I
give 'em a kick-start.
Because, development is the development one's own mental
powers. Development is not "learning" to do something, the way
it's usually done in schools today, or universities today.
Development is developing the powers of the people! The
development is getting the students to educate themselves,
effectively. And you intervene, only by exception.
It's the same thing in business. In good business, it's
always managed by exception. You don't sit on top of everybody
and try to tell them when to breathe! What you do is, you set a
task, they agree to the task, they go to it, and you just stand
there and you're nearby {in case they need you}. And you turn up
from time to time to see how they're doing. And when they have a
problem, they ask you a question, you give them the answer. If
you think they should get it. Or, often I don't give them the
answer: I tell them where to go to get it, or what problem to
look at, to get it.
So, I'm a better teacher than Jonathan is, because of that
reason. Because he was trained in the educational method which
was standard, which is stultifying to people. I believe in the
self-development of people. If you look what we've done, in
terms of these programs, what we've done in terms of developing
the intelligence system, in upgrading that whole process. What
we've done in improving the press function, the war-room
function. What we've done now with this new intelligence
function, we've added to it. What we've done in terms of the
scientific education.

 

xlcr4life
06-15-2007, 04:14 AM
What we've done in terms of the music
program, that you've heard yourself--this is a breakthrough.
So, that's the way to do things. And the difference is,
now, we are, as I insist on it--not because I give orders, but
because I know that's what has to be done--insist on the {outward
reach}, always outward reach. Not like they were running it
under the Uwe regime, but outward reach. In which you trust
younger people, who are committed to developing, to development!
And you assist the process, and help coordinate it, but you
intervene and give as little direction as possible. Management
and direction by exception.


  • The briefing on JT's speech in Russia introduced him as a "previous collaborator of Lyn in a very carefully worded slug in the briefing. Lyn also has told people that he expects "His children to return later this year" in a real creepy update to some members.
    The cult also has no qualms about riding JT's work as their own. That is pretty much a given about Lyn. The Russians who work with them are heavy industry people who in the past worked with the ELC and Helga on a Peace conf. a few years ago. A lot of overseas bumpkins fall for the idea of having a "US Democratic Presidential candidate" confirm their beliefs of economic collapse and decadence of The West. Lyn does these interviews a lot in Iran, Muslim nations and anywhere you need some PR work. In many of these situtations the cult throws a few bucks around and pays for some person to show up at a conf to prasie the cult.
    Moon does this, but his checks do not usually bounce and he pays better. Lyn is sort of the "Rent a wreck" in the cult circuit. Bevel came to Lyn from the moonies.
    Tennenbaum should clear this up as he will be notjhing more than another meal for Lyn and Helga no matter how smart he is or self educated he is. Lyn has no qualms about jerking people around and denouncing them as when they come back, they are more docile.
    xlcr4life@hotmail.com
    (Message edited by xlcr4life on June 15, 2007)
 

charltonrom
06-15-2007, 04:30 AM
I will certainly be hopeful for amplification on the themes of Bevel and the Tennenbaums---Fernando Quijano too, if anyone has any direct knowledge. I agree the Reverend should be given the presumption of innocence but it certainly has a dubious gestalt.
Here is an interesting report. I know this site is supposed to be all cult all the time but hey I paid me dues and this is part of showing in just what way is Lyn a kook:
Al Qaeda targets France
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-riedel14jun14,0,7149228.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-riedel14jun14%2C0%2C7149228.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail)
I guess it's the fault of Cheney, as was 9-11; that is, AFTER 9-11 was the fault of the Wolfowitz Cabal with Israeli spy input.
On 9-11 we were told this was a "provocation, not an act of terrorism." I was uncomfortable with the party line but came to accept that the attack had been run by some shadowy cabal--- in essence a conspiracy between Israel and American collaborators.
LaRouche said: "Well, largely, this is a domestic covert operation, which we had word of beforehand." (An immediate lie; we were forecasting an Anarchist Summit sort of attack.) Shortly after the south tower collapsed, LaRouche said, "This is obviously a highly planned attack by a very capable agency."
LaRouche rejected that the attacks were "an Islamic national operation" saying they lacked the capability. Instead he blamed "people who want the U.S. to go to war against the Arab world."
(Look for the Stockwell radio show transcripts from 9-11.)
If you can find a copy of the EIR Special Report, Zbig Brzzezinski and 9-11, which came out later that fall, which we sold like hotcakes under the rubric that the Report proved a conspiracy, you'll see that at that time the conspiracy included not only the Wolfowitz Cabal but Kissinger and the old theme of the British Round Table New World Order crowd. We told contacts that "This Could Not Have Been Done without approval at some level!" (incorrect, as the 9-11 Commission books shows.) As the elan of the report grayed and our stocks depleted the conspiracy started to modulate in character.
Lyn later told a gathering of Italian politicians in Rome: "Dick Cheney organized what became 9-11." Boy did we go with that! for a day or two, but soon Lyn tried to backtrack some, advising the troops that Cheney shouldn't be looked at as the evil genius behind the attacks. But, as I've previously noted, the theme was just too delicious and he asserted at least one other time, in the briefing within the last 6 months or so if I recall, that the blamefinger should be thrown up at Cheney.
Books lke 1000 years For Revenge http://www.amazon.com/1000-Years-Revenge-International-FBI/dp/006054354X and the 9-11 Commission Book make it clear that Osama and company were in fact HIGHLY capable, that they planned it out all very well. Yet I saw some members ranting on the theme of Cheney's Blame to the public, to people who probably lacked the capability to do much serious investigations of the provenance of the attacks on their own. Now you may not like Cheney, but here we have an instance of truly monumental, hideous, deceptive, PROOFLESS demagoguery. Lyn here stands with the other lefty nut-jobs who refuse to understand what is going on in the world.
This is why I say Lyn IS a genius: he has a paranoiac's energies and just keeps on ticking like the Energizer bunny only with horns. Don't underestimate him.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

earnest_one
06-15-2007, 08:04 AM
XCLR:
I know nothing about the briefing slug ("previous collaborator") -- I am not privy to such inside info -- but when somebody is introduced, pubicly, as a "representative of LaRouche" and reads LAROUCHE'S WORDS, then it is hard to believe that any serious rift is extent.
How can someone leave and then re-appear, months later, as a LaRouche representative, mouthing words directly from the creep himself?
"Collaborator" implies that you are contributing something of your own -- it implies some sort of equality.
"Representative" implies that you are simply doing someone else's bidding. That sounds worse, actually. A collaborator can be independent. A representative is a wholly owned subsidiary!
Besides, speeches like this help LaRouche to garner support with young uninformed yutes, it helps LL to attract, capture, and then imprison these poor souls -- it lends credence to the idea that LL is a "world historical figure."
As far as LL being an excellent teacher, I can only say that I have learned less, per unit word, per unit page, then almost anybody else. He does NOT use words to communicate ideas. He uses them to waste your valuable time.
LaRouche's writing is an insult to the human mind.

 

sancho
06-15-2007, 08:52 AM
The last line is well said.
What he attacks (e.g., Nazis) is what he is, and what he promotes (e.g., Reason) is what he is not.
A good rule of thumb.

 

charltonrom
06-15-2007, 09:27 PM
Star Whores
Episode 4: A New Jew-Bespinning
It is a period of uncivil bores. Dick Cheney runs all history. After days of bloody battles, the Gaza Strip, led 'till now by the at least nominally civil Palestinian Fatah Party under Mahmoud Abbas, falls into the hands of Hamas, Islamist militants pledged to the destruction of Israel.
The head of Hamas resides in Damascus and reports to Iran. Is Hamas's move to seize the moment in Gaza being spurred by Khomeni's successors in Iran? Viewed together with the Eido assassination in Lebanon earlier this week
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6755913.stm
... events in Gaza are being described by knowledgeable observers as "part of a regional offensive against the United States and Israel by the Iranian/Syrian Axis."
http://powerlineblog.com/archives/017928.php
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/785olnei.asp?pg=2
Meanwhile, back on the Krankh, one of General Kranko's propaganda minister, Hussain Askary, finds a way to again blame the Jews:
"...it is a product of the Dick Cheney-Eliot Abrams strategy of sowing civil wars throughout Southwest Asia. Cheney-Abrams, and their key ally, Israeli fascist Benjamin Netanyahu, have used as a pretext for the fighting, the electoral victory by Hamas in the democratic elections of 2006. They have succeeded in using the manipulated unwillingness by Fatah and Mahmoud Abbas to concede or share power, to trigger this brutal civil war. The manipulation and pressure comes from the U.S., the EU, and Israel, who, with false promises of a peace deal between the Palestinians and Israel, have forced Fatah and Abbas to undermine and push Hamas out of the way."
From today's briefing to the Posse.
charltonrom@gmail.com
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 16, 2007)

 

charltonrom
06-16-2007, 05:05 AM
Even the Arab League, historically committed also to Israel's destruction, stands in support of Fatah.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6759269.stm
Maybe they're not so keen either on Iran's big power play in the region.

The reason I say we mustn't underestimate Lyn is this:
He is not a mere crazed and ignorant bombastic demagogue, 'though he is that; his anti-Israelism is not just axiomatic and reekingly palpable; it is SPURRING ON THE ISLAMIST/SYRIAN/IRANIAN DRIVE TO ANNIHILATE THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
Lyn's Jew-contempt is tactically operative. It is MAKING A DIFFERENCE in what happens.
The briefing now boasts that Lyn's magisterial work is being taken up by the party organ of Hezbollah, the "Lebanese Communication Group," Al-Manar TV:
June 14 (EIRNS)--An Arabic translation of the May 22 LPAC story, "Is Lebanon Conflict the Fruit of Failed Cheney Scheme" which appeared on the LaRouche Arabic language website (www.nysol.se/arabic (http://www.nysol.se/arabic)) was picked up last week and put on the front page of the Hezbollah website(www.almanar.com.lb (http://www.almanar.com.lb)) with credit to the LaRouche website. Over 15,000 readers clicked on the article. The average for hot news items on the sites is 2,000 to 3,000. It also led to hundreds of new clicks on the LaRouche Arab website. [DEA]
That would be Dean Andromidas, whose hatred for Israel may exceed Lyn's.
Hezbollah, for those Yute Ignorantio's like Pure Method Timmie, is the Iranian proxy moving for control of Lebanon. They have been directly implicated in American deaths and their leadership concurs with Iran's President Ahmadinejad that America must go, too.
I don't read Arabic but there is a link on their site so English-reading Jew-haters too can get the news.
www.almanar.com.lb (http://www.almanar.com.lb)
There is a storm gathering. Lyn is helping seed the clouds with his foul little droppings.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

xlcr4life
06-16-2007, 06:20 AM
You need to fund this lunacy which is what I will address today. As part of the process of running a cult you need to step by step invrease the hysteria and emergencies to create the conditions whereby only Lyn has the solutions and only the LYM know about them.
That in itself creats a paradox since Lyn is the world's greatest dillusionist, you need a small amry of cadre, er streetwalkers to raise cash for him to spread his delusions to save humanity. Last year I noticed very subtle hints that the yutes will be put into a situation where just showing up on a campus and giving away lit which cost the cult nothing is workable in the short term.
This is sort of Lyn's "Night of the living Dead" economic model where zombies only need bodies to continue to live as the concept of hard currencies has not yet entered into zombie lifestyles. Well, in th epast year the seeds were planted as doing interventions incresaed and a kiddee "war room" has been set up to make the LYM think that they are directing their destiny.
Yutes, this is all a rerun of the 1970s when Lyn created one crisis after another INTERNALLY using EXTERNAL world events in the LC. It all ended with Lyn telling members "This aint no debating society" and overnight the LC began to battle the Krishna and Monnies over street corners and airport real estate.
Looking back that past year of brieifngs we have the same plans as the yutes are prasied to high heaven while the boomer, who are too old and burdened to suck exhaust fumes all day are sent to hell by Lyn. Reading these slsugs in the briefing is comical as it reminds me of Maoist training with group chants and "heros" of the revolution who are carrying out the dreram of Larouche.
Every month you yutes have been weened inot taking on the fundraising tasks which now include making cash in the streets. The dollare figures have been reported which started off with 10 to 20 bucks for a few hours of a card table shrine deployment here and there. The people who rasied more were now in the briefing and rehash of the old days was reintroduced in the form of "Power Squads".
In DC I posted a blog from a person who had a female LYM wearing an A frame coem up to cars about impeaching Dick Cheney while chanting "We need to raise a 100 bucks a day for larouche to impeach Cheney". Yeah, Just remember the first part of that sentence as the rest will be filled in depending on what new crisis pops up.
Your future is a full time six day a week card table shrine or dancing between cars and trucks for cash. The cult even has nice words about how great it is is to raise more cash as that surely means that Lyn's formula to save the universe is well under way.
The newest goal is to raise the cash to send yutes to DC for a web cast. OOOH, that is worth spending my early adult years sucking exhasut fumes instead of being in a classroom.
Someone really needs to put a sign over the LA LYM clubhouse door which says "Work will make you free". The briefing has just put in a wonderful slug for yutes which entices them to come to LA to do street hustling since there is around the clock sunny weather. Here are some exerpts sent to me by someone who is starting to pack their bags.
Lyn has even stolen Donald Trumps TV show and has his own cult version of "The Apprentice"

 

xlcr4life
06-16-2007, 06:22 AM


  • "The winds of Change"
    If you have been away long, or have never been here at all,
    you might not know about how the winds of change have swirled
    through the Los Angeles local, how they have carved into the
    sediments here, revealing symbolic messages upon the underlying
    bedrock. Our most favored men and women, the council of elders
    themselves, struggled only in vain to grasp the source or meaning
    for these mysterious hieroglyphs, but they could not transcribe
    them. The fabric, the very air in our local seemed shaken into
    uncertainty. So, in a desperate attempt, we had our best Bel
    Canto voices line up on the Hollywood hills and sing out into the
    distant yonder (to the far off place some called WarRoom), for a
    sign, a hint, some useful feedback from the outside world that
    might lend us a hand in resolving our enigma, when suddenly, one
    day, a reply arrived to us from beyond the hills which said,
    almost in echoes, "Stop blocking and learn to use e-mail. If you
    want our help, you need to write more ops reports!"
    So due to popular demand, I thought it worthwhile to give
    people a rare sense of what's up in Los Angeles: Renaissance
    workshop/recruiting ground extraordinaire.
    First of all, we are half-staffed with organizers, which is
    both bad and good, but which generally means there is more space
    to grow and a greater necessity for EVERYONE, new and old, to
    take on new challenges in what THEY can do individually for the
    good of humanity. When the mass recruitment factory is pumping,
    wonders are done for the movement as a whole -- but that IS the
    big "Tipper Gore" in the living room here. Youth outreach. It
    is what Los Angeles was made for; the wide sprawl, the year-round
    perfect weather for campus organizing, and plus, these kids all
    KNOW they have no future the way things are going... and so we
    have a HUGE capability to explode t he numbers of contacts joining
    us over this summer break IF we have the will to do so. Do you
    have this vision in your mind? Are your arms long enough to dig
    into the "box" of uncalled contacts?............
    we have just reinstituted something which a few
    months ago was tentatively called the "New Person Reading Day",
    which was meant to supply a kind of launching pad for serious
    contacts and new members, to work with older members on
    foundational studies in epistemology, geometry and of course,
    Lyn's economics. The next eight weeks will be, "So You Wish..."
    and its periphery. Imagine the experience of contacts spending
    all day Saturday reading Lyn, Liebniz, Hamilton etc., then
    sticking around for Phil's P.M. update, and not leaving until
    hours after the regular meeting!...................
    another really interesting situation is the new L.A.
    Tweener deployments, which hasn't yet slowed their accelerating
    potential in providing the necessary public credit investment
    that our youth recruitment demands. Not merely a fundraising
    breakthrough, they are opening up new territories (for example in
    Republican Orange County districts), raking in Boomer contacts
    for the phone team, and have even started taking on youth
    apprentices. I won't go into too much detail on this latter
    point, but I will just say that a number of youth, even some who
    have had problems with fund raising, have been able to raise over
    $200 individually when working within the dynamic set by Chris
    Sayre or others of the Tweeners.
 

xlcr4life
06-16-2007, 06:25 AM
These kind of breakthroughs
breathe optimism into numerous areas, whether relating to funds
or otherwise.
Lastly, the field meeting resolution was to create a
tenacious organizing fury. If you are at a table, give every
person the opportunity to get on board, but waste no time
catering to their pessimisms and weaknesses. Treat them as they
ought to be, calmly and with conviction. If they are wimping
around, keeping their distance, say to them, "Look, are you gonna
do this?" Better for everyone is to challenge them early.
Everyone who joins, only does so when they face certain
challenges. To get contacts coming consistently, try settling for
ten confirmations instead of two and [two] might show up! We
discussed the idea of putting together binders full of visuals
(recent LaRouchePAC.com slugs, quotes, maps, diagrams, old
pamphlet covers, EIR articles if we are low on EIR hard copies,
etc.) to help us effectively communicate a single laser focused
idea to a contact out in the field, and get them to sign up.


  • As you can see, the yutes need to go to GOP areas to make some cash. That is why the cult has to have an enemy for those days which is Al Gore.
    Get ready yutes for that winds of change. Those winds will soon turn to storms of anger, chair throwing, late night sessions and around the clock Post offices, intersections, shopping centers if you yutes come back to the office with less than the required loot. You have very, very disturbed deadender NCs who have been in this insane asylum for decades and are now the masters of your lives.
    Have fun and enjoy listening to how you not hitting quota put the world one minute closer to Thermo Nuclear war, A New Dark age or Hell.
    What I would do is make as much cash as possible and hold back some of it every day. Over time you will have enough saved to get out of a LYM barrack and back to the real world. It is worth getting yelled at by some sick, gray haired loser who wasted 40 years of his or her life worshipping Lyn to get a life time of freedom.
    xlcr4life@hotmail.com
 

charltonrom
06-17-2007, 10:50 AM
Supplemental-Krankite-Doctrine Dept:
Lyn's Explanation of the Madrid Bombings in 2004
At the time of the bombings we were going hard with a Revived Fascist International theory. Lyn wanted desperately to blame the Madrid bombings on a shadowy network of ex-Nazis lifted from Europe by the OSS and such, which network had never been purged out. This cabal supposedly had tentacles into Mussolini's grandaughter's party in Italy as well as rightist parties in Spain and the Americas.
We put out a thick Special Report on the Return of the Synarchists. These didn't sell as briskly as the 9-11 report but made for many hours of study for us devotees. Unfortunately like our report on 9-11 it was little more than a sort of eccentric's encyclopedia, full of names and essays and utterly dubious connecto's proving that the new terror was in fact orchestrated by the financial oligarchy.
This became part of my disenchanting with the org as it all too soon became clear that the Madrid plot was nothing more than another Islamist attack, by radicals intent on recapturing al-Andalusia after their repulse 900 years ago.
This is of a piece with Lyn's take in the mid 90's on the Oklahoma City bombing. Basically the theme was that the British did it as part of their drive to throw out Clinton and dissolve the US. The Office of Naval Intelligence, I was told upon inquiring, still had links to and perhaps even effective control by the Brits.
Now that Lyn is getting some play in the Islamic world he would like to avoid any insinuations that there may just be some endemic, organic problems with their radicals. Also it dovetails nicely with his program re Israel.
Here is some reports on the true provenance of the Madrid attacks.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0322/p01s02-woeu.html
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/08/02/040802fa_fact
charltonrom@gmail.com
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 17, 2007)

 

howie
06-17-2007, 10:17 PM
By the way, I think we can drop the adjective "alleged" for Incestual pedophile James Bevel:
. They confronted him, and he acknowledged the sexual contact but dismissed it as "religious training", Lawless said.
One of the daughters later confronted Bevel in a taped conversation. He again acknowledged the sex but chastised his daughter and called her "a dirty little whore for believing it was something other than religious training," Lawless told the judge.

"Religious training"...

 

eaglebeak
06-18-2007, 04:33 AM
Speaking of the Madrid "Special Report" Charltonrom mentions, it was edited by Tony Papert, and as such was even quirkier than most special reports.
Papert said it was "the best thing we have put out."
Much of it focused on the terrorism that swept Italy and Germany in the 1970s and 1980s; had nothing to do with Madrid train bombing.

 

charltonrom
06-18-2007, 05:30 AM
Just call it:
Our Peerless General Kranko Elides Again!
As long as the org can sustain the Creed amongst the yutes that Lyn is the great persecuted messiah of the age---which requires diligently and continuously keeping all the closet-skeletons from the past down the memory hole: the chicaneries, the abuses, the lunatic Special Reports, the positional flip-flops and enantiodromias--- then the cult can be maintained.
When will some of the LYM show some courage and begin to ask rather embarrassing but necessary questions? "Uncle Harley why does Lyn say the Synarchists plotted to bomb Madrid trains? Why did he blame the British for the Oklahoma City bombings? Why, Harley, why?? "
If anyone out there has it, I would like to hear more from others on the flip flops and policy morphings from the 70's-90's period.
charltonrom@gmail.com
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 18, 2007)

 

sancho
06-18-2007, 05:54 AM
For a long time after I left the organization, I continued to regard Lyn as someone with a great mind and good character as I did not have the Internet and something like FACTNet to discover what had been hidden from me all those years. I also got a good education, so it became increasingly clear to me that he was full of nonsense, nonsense I formerly accepted as Gospel truth. So you young people really have no excuse to continue following this madman given the wealth of information you have here from those of us who gone before you and with the opportunity you have to resume your formal education in order to become someone.
That being said, speaking of flip-flops, the thing that first suggested to me that Lyn was a low-life was his enlistment of Ramsey Clark in his defense. You think the Cheneys are vilified now? You have no idea how much the organization used to hound Clark - right up to the time he signed on with the LaRouche Show, then all was silence. It was that one fact that demonstrated to me long ago - though I continued to regard LaRouche as a genius - that he was also a shameless whore and individual without honor.

 

eaglebeak
06-18-2007, 07:26 AM
In LaRouche nemesis Dennis King's book "Lyndon LaRouche and the New American Fascism" (1989), as I recall, Ramsey Clark was cited favorably in a footnote as having been a help to King in some aspect of the book.
Yet, a year later, Clark was representing LaRouche on appeal, and the LaRouche org was flying Clark to a conference in Copenhagen where Clark claimed that the trial of LaRouche was an action by the U.S. government because LaRouche was a threat to the establishment, blah blah blah.
No wonder you wondered, Sancho.
But LaRouche is a master of seismic flip-flops. As long as his members don't question him, he really doesn't care if the rest of the world notices that he makes no sense, and lacks all coherence, day to day.
If confronted, he can always deny, denounce, and above all, lie. Anyhow, he believes that what he says and thinks is true BECAUSE HE SAID AND THOUGHT IT. It's a simple principle of validation--I think, therefore it is.

 

sancho
06-18-2007, 08:01 AM
Cogitat, ergo asinus est.

 

borisbad
06-18-2007, 08:50 AM
I remember in the 1980s when we were big supporters of Reagan, we were praising the likes of Juan and Eva Peron and Manuel Noriega as patriotic nationalists opposed to British imperialism (even if that meant supporting things like fascists and Nazis for Peron), and went so far as to call Peron and the ex-President of Nicaragua (Torrijos) as Platonic humanists. Of course we also had denounced ANC and supported the apartheid South African regime (although couching it as support for Zulu chief Buthelezi who collaborated with the regime).
I know we had earlier denounced Ramsey Clark as an architect of the Vietnam War under Johnson, etc. and I think we also linked him to the "terrorist supporting" Institute for Policy Studies which we attacked vociferously during the rightward drift days of the Carter - Reagan Administration periods. However, to try and chronicle every shift the organization went through would take more webspace than factnet probably has available.

 

borisbad
06-18-2007, 09:26 AM
I remember in the 1980s when we were big supporters of Reagan, we were praising the likes of Juan and Eva Peron and Manuel Noriega as patriotic nationalists opposed to British imperialism (even if that meant supporting things like fascists and Nazis for Peron), and went so far as to call Peron and the ex-President of Nicaragua (Torrijos) as Platonic humanists. Of course we also had denounced ANC and supported the apartheid South African regime (although couching it as support for Zulu chief Buthelezi who collaborated with the regime).
I know we had earlier denounced Ramsey Clark as an architect of the Vietnam War under Johnson, etc. and I think we also linked him to the "terrorist supporting" Institute for Policy Studies which we attacked vociferously during the rightward drift days of the Carter - Reagan Administration periods. However, to try and chronicle every shift the organization went through would take more webspace than factnet probably has available.

 

charltonrom
06-18-2007, 05:15 PM
OK, are you... ready? The org has formulated the Next-New-Crisis Construct.
Set...
"What we're onto with the BAE exclusive, which the lead article of this coming week's EIR launches officially, is something really big. We are on the path of breaking up something very nasty, that is a threat to civilization and the world."
Finally! At last Lyn and the organization are getting SERIOUS about the crisis! Up to now I had feared Lyn was holding back his unalloyed goodness.
God help us unless Lyn be put in charge!
From a recent Pure Method Posse's Party-Line utterance.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

sancho
06-18-2007, 06:35 PM
Remember the rule of thumb, part (a): whatever they attack, they are.
Thus, we are privileged to know what is "something very nasty, that is a threat to civilization and the world."
Senior citizens, lock your doors and windows!

 

howie
06-18-2007, 10:19 PM
Just in case you missed his headlines:
.......................
The Queen's Connections to the BAE Scandal
Fascist Augusto Pinochet a Player in BAE Affair
White House Ducks Question on BAE Scandal
LaRouche-Slanderer Baroness Symons Swimming in the BAE Mire (This one interesting because it slides Jeremiah Duggan into the equation.)
....................
Regarding "The Winds of Change" directive xlcr posted, something pointed out by Rachel Holmes:
--- We discussed the idea of putting together binders full of visuals (recent LaRouchePAC.com slugs, quotes, maps, diagrams, old pamphlet covers, EIR articles if we are low on EIR hard copies, etc.) to help us effectively communicate a single laser focused idea to a contact out in the field, and get them to sign up. ----
Binders of slugs, old pamphlet covers, EIR articles if we are low on EIR hard copies? This looks like more corroboration of problems in getting things printed, now that PMR is gone.

 

shadok
06-19-2007, 01:00 AM
I had similar echoes from Europe: they don't print their newspaper anymore! I suppose this is what "the best economist in the world"'s solution was all about after their financial/structural crisis last year when the european leadership slammed the door with kingpin Friesecke... The "best economist in the world" thought the solution was to cut down production costs: so why not not printing anymore and have an allout "internet strategy" (the socalled larpac website strategy)?
I suggest even better, why not joining the online "virtual communities" like www.activeworlds.com? (http://www.activeworlds.com?) The youths would have their avatars and their virtual cardtable shrine, trying to make some other avatars to sign up for their virtual copy of EIR? Whenever they organize well they ll win some "virtual credits" to buy some "virtual sandwiches". Their mission is to save this "virtual 3d world" from the forces of evil.
This game could be called "virtual politics, the fantasy world of Lyndon Larouche."
At least, it would save real lives, like Ken's or Jeremiah's....

 

xlcr4life
06-19-2007, 04:04 AM
Shadok, I have proposed a while ago that any decription of the delusional universe of Lyn be called:
"The Hostile Fantasy World of Larouche"
in honor of one our cheap newsprint briefs from the late 1970s.
I think a similar video game on a web site would be pretty popular. You could have Lyn using his eyes as SDI lasers trying to shoot down an endless stream of delusisonal enemies like the Trilats, CFR, Knights of Malta, Episcoplalians, The Joooos, Pacifist Quakers, The Queen of England, Al Gore and an endless parade.
The enemies of Larouche are made up by his closest advisors with stellar names like "The Major, Mr. Ed and Carpet". Intrigue continues as a trusted security leader in the game named Goldstein suggests to Lyn that to preserve his Empire he fins refuge in a US prison.
The game gets trickier as every 10 years you have new acolytes to replace the burnt out ones while old enemies become new allies avery 12 years.
Lyn survives every phony assasination plot, but loses money, sometimes $80,000 in one night. Money is rolling in expanding the Larouche empire geographically, but being lost for non payment as the game contnues. Lyn Smurfs now are crammed 8 to a holding cell awaiting new enemies to interven against.
A mysterious Kenneth Hugh de Courcy shows up to negotiate a deal to end the war, but Lyn REJECTS the Oligarchy and continues with The Hostile Fantasy of larouche for another 20 years with a whole new set of yute players run by a few deadenders with some filler in Leesburg as wild cards.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

sancho
06-19-2007, 05:09 AM
"Hostile Fantasy World" playing cards - buy all 4 sets, one for each decade!
The "World's Greatest Economist" Monopoly game, where the whole board is Baltic Avenue, the Railroads become fantasy Maglev projects, and Community Chest becomes the unemployment office.
LaRouche-Riemann chess, where the pawns can only move backwards - just to be promoted to washed-up "boomers."
The possibilities are endless ...

 

charltonrom
06-19-2007, 05:17 AM
Any exes from the Golden Years, if you could give us some more on such themes as the deadly Knights of Malta and the Episcopalian Menace, we would be grateful. The world needs to comprehend the danger.
It was a banner day for the Pure Truth Method Posse yesterday as the Party Line briefing was chock full of some real good fodder. The rhetoric is warming up nicely now, not just from Lyn, 'though of course he leads the Posse. His remarks are fascinating and should I'm sure become public soon, here is a taste:
'Cheney is only an instrument of London, because George Shultz is an instrument of London, and George Shultz controls it all."
No WONDER we're so messed up, with someone like George Schultz in control!
Jeff's "sources" clue us in on how the bloody power struggle in Gaza and the West Bank is actually run: "These American sources identify U.S. National Security Council official Elliot Abrams and former State Department Middle East deputy Liz Cheney (the daughter of Vice President Dick Cheney) as the architects of the scheme to promote armed conflict between Hamas and Fatah."
At last we understand.
And Minister of Truth Larry Hecht expounds on:
"the decision by elements of the then newly formed Anglo-Dutch finanical (sic) oligarchy to promote the fraud of Isaac Newton in an attempt to destroy both Leibniz himself, and the tradition he represented" and on how "the faction of Winston Churchill's progenitor Lord Marlborough, also known as the "Venetian Party," launched a defamation campaign against Gottfried Leibniz... thus successfully destroying real science in England..."
Science was not "destroyed" in England, but this is a key plank in the Creed, on which more soon. In the meanwhile we must all soberly muse on the Oligarchy's control of history.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

borisbad
06-19-2007, 03:28 PM
One thing I never could understand was how Churchill's ancestor the Duke of Marlborough was a wicked descendant of the Venetians yet Princess Diana became a heroine who somehow was hated by the Queen and Prince Charles probably because she was in love with an Ayrab. The cynical among us may infer it had something to do with Dodi Fayed's money.
As to others in the 70s and 80s lower rungs of Hell let us never forget the pure bile poured out against Jimmy Carter and his brother Billy who was friends with Qaddafi before LaRouche became an ardent pro-Arabist. And never forget the Tavistock crowd which probably was actually involved in a lot of the mkultra and similar stuff going on from the 50s and 60s, so I don't discount all of what they found out about Tavistock. Going after the Episcopalians was a good way for us to say we didn't just attack Jews, and besides who's going to get upset when you denounce WASPS!
Many of the fascist synarchists were adulated as anti-British imperialist leaders like the Perons, although the LC never supported the outright military regimes like Pinochet and the Argentinian military, only the so-called radical military reformer types like Peron and Torrijos.
Of course, you also had the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderbergers and ARAMCO as well. Can't remember all the potential enemies of humanity that we exposed and defeated back then.

 

charltonrom
06-19-2007, 11:11 PM
THE CREED, CONTINUED: THE MYTH OF "THE DEATH OF SCIENCE IN ENGLAND"
A key plank in the General Kranko Creed, now taught to all and sundry amongst the Yutes as well as the oldies in the org, is that the British Financial Oligarchy abetted the great Fraud, of the dreaded Isaac Newton, and laid waste to the reputation of Leibniz thus leading to the Destruction of True Science in England. (See my recent posts.)
Lyn utilizes here a common demagogic device, namely to take up a complex historical theme and embellish it with gross exaggeration, distortion and hyperbole, to establish an eccentric doctrine or doctrinal plank—which it should be noted simultaneously creates a demonic villain or villains for the mind of the cultic devotee to chomp on mmmm so tasty: the Oligarchy again! and that damned fraudster Newton! "What a genius Lyn is! Did you know that Isaac Newton is a TOTAL FRAUD?!" Lyn's acolytes repeat his shocking iconoclasms to a stunned and incomprehending world.
Ever since around the time that Lyn took Helga to wife, the German Classical, and Leibniz in particular, have been rhetorically privileged. One can look in vain for references to Leibniz in Lyn's early works; it matters not, because the continuing reconstruction of Lyn's image and ideology proceed apace as external conditions demand: with German Classicism the privileged reference frame, Leibniz becomes the chief saint and Lyn is transmogrified. He is no longer a Jew-loathing Marxian oddball with paranoid delusions about the Knights of Malta, the Jesuits, and the Bavarian Illuminati or sundry other aetherial demonic bugbears; now, he has ALWAYS been the greatest partisan for Leibniz, "Leibniz' American System," and Leibniz' uniquely original method!
Ah, the wonders of science!

2B continued
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

odd_one_2003
06-19-2007, 11:25 PM
"... let us never forget the pure bile poured out
against Jimmy Carter and his brother Billy who
was friends with Qaddafi before LaRouche became
an ardent pro-Arabist"

LaRouche has been what one might describe as an
"ardent pro-Arabist" at least as far back as the
publication of the Campaigner featuring the article:
"Ibn Sina and the Dawn of the Humanist Heritage"
The Campaigner in question is dated July/August 1977. A PDF can be found at this url:
http://wlym.com/PDF-77-85/CAM7708.pdf
Have fun,
-Steve

 

odd_one_2003
06-20-2007, 12:23 AM
shadok,
Your post is old by now, but I am responding anyway, because you sem to have missed the thrust of my arguement.
You say
"As for the "1.5 million" figure of the Jews
murdered by "slave labor" (Campaigner "zionism is
not judaism"), it is a typical case of holocaust
denial. First the official figure is 5-6 millions,
and OF COURSE the nazis were racists (hello? on
which planet are you living?)!!! They didn't
kill the jews and gypsies for economic reasons,
the extermination camps (which larouche deny to
exist, he called them "concentration slave-labor
camps") were costly financially to the nazis war
machine. The Allied forces couldn't understand
why they put so much efforts and ressources in
such enterprise. The only reason was not
economic, it was racism. The "1.5 million" figure
comes from a book called "The Myth of the Six Million"
(1969) by David Hoggan, a friend of the
neonazi revisionist Liberty Lobby with which
larouche was associated at the time."

  • LaRouche deines the camps existed. And he
    calls them slave labor camps. Which is it? Or
    are you saying he asserts they would have been
    slave labor camps had they existed?
  • Look, maybe this guy Hoggan was the source of
    Lyn's figure and maybe that figure is in fact
    wrong. I don't know, I wasn't there, and the fact
    that it varies from the "official" figure means
    less than nothing to me. But I don't see how
    saying that the Nazis exterminated 1.5 million
    people can be construed as "Holocaust denial".
    That strains the English language well past
    the breaking point.
    (continued)
 

odd_one_2003
06-20-2007, 12:30 AM
shadok (continued)

  • Plus, I thought it was generally acknowledged
    that able bodied Jews as well as many non-Jews
    were shipped to labor camps and worked under
    inhuman conditions. Only when they could no
    longer work were they targeted for death. Is this
    controversial? And didn't the German regime get
    economic value from their labor?
  • Why is it so threatening to accept that their
    could have been an economic motivation behind the
    Holocaust? Is it because then it might be necessary
    to face the implications of those same economic
    principles playing out in our own period?

  • Of course the Nazis were racist, and if you
    re-read what I wrote you may notice I never
    denied that. But nothing happens for just one
    reason. The camps existed for economic reasons.
    They were filled predominantly with Jews because
    the racist ideology of the Nazi party, as well as
    many common Germans, made them acceptable
    victims. And I'm sure many in the party were
    oblivious to the economic considerations, which
    after all, were somewhat esoteric. But the
    racists would accept the program as a means of
    ethnic cleansing, while the economic policy
    makers like Schact would support it as the "final
    solution" to an otherwise unpayable debt structure.
  • To say that this line of arguement somehow
    denies Nazi racism or the reality of the
    Holocaust is simply ludicrous and defies reason.

  • To dismiss Alfred Rosenberg, the chief ideologue of the nazi regime, just "another faction" is ridiculous. I know it is embarrassing to discover some of larouche's sources of inspiration...
    • Well, I don't recall dismissing him. I think I said his views were useful but almost certainly not the whole story.
      Look at how actual policies get decided upon in the governments
      of today. It's always a coalition of forces that can agree on
      a policy for widely varying reasons. Look at immigration
      policy. Look at any of this stuff. It';s sold to a credible
      public based on some unmitigated load of crap than even most of
      the nominal proponents know better than to believe. But they
      know a line that will sell.
    • Larouche "associated" with the Liberty Lobby? "Associated"
      is a nicely vague term, but it's a bit stronger than I would
      have used. I think LaRouche met with Carto (LaRouche will meet
      with widely diverse people without thereby declaring his
      asllegiance to them) and if I'm not mistaken, there were some positive comments about LaRouche in the Spotlight. There may
      well have been sharing of information. As far as I know, that
      was it. Maybe this is an "association", but a fairly tenuous
      one, IMO.
      Have fun,
      -Steve
 

shadok
06-20-2007, 01:15 AM
odd_one_2003
"Why is it so threatening to accept that their could have been an economic motivation behind the Holocaust? "
I dont consider it as "threatening" but an insult to the victims, how their tragedy is being utilized.
Larouche's intellectual fraud is to consider the nazi holocaust policy as mere "slave labor" camps ("schachtian austerity").
The Nazi camps were divided into TWO different "categories":
1/ the "concentration camps", ie "slave-labor"
2/ the "extermination camps", ie the "final solution" to exterminate "inferior races"
The Jews and Gypsies were sent to the extermination camps and were killed almost straight away, regardless of any economic considerations. (the ancient Greeks knew that as a slave-owner you had to take care of your slave's health. they considered their slaves as "assets")
The "holocaust deniers" deny the existence of the "extermination camps", eg the row over the gas chambers etc
Larouche being antisemite and groomed by the guys from the Liberty Lobby, endorsed their line about the Holocaust, and utilized the "concentration camps" case as "slave labor" camps, labelled them as "Schachtian austerity" and then blamed the British (and the Jewish bankers) for this...
So, acc to larouche, not only the "extermination camps" didnt exist but the "concentration camps" were inspired, if not supported by... Jewish bankers (like Rohatyn)
This is even more insulting and sickening than the worst of the holocaust deniers. (it is by the way unpoven, undocumented and gratuitous)

 

sancho
06-20-2007, 04:59 AM
I'll tell you what's wrong with that 1.5 million figure (apart from the Jew-hating part): Lyndon LaRouche is NOT an historian, so he is no way positioned to make an estimate, since he is NOT an historian. We saw that above, with his reference to the _Beyond Psychoanalysis_ series as a "therepeutic response." He is NOT a therapist of any sort. Reading history books, reading psychiatry books makes one NEITHER an historian NOR a therapist. You LaRouche people really need to get a grip on reality: this guy could not handle elementary plane geometry, flunked out of a mediocre undergraduate program, and has misread - to the extent that he has read anything - Kant, Leibniz, etc. Guess why? Because he is NOT a philosopher. For that matter, he is NOT an economist, NOT an intelligence operative, and NOT a literary critic. You want a "therepeutic response?" Read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
Read this too if you want a laugh at the World's Greatest Economist:
http://www.all-story.com/issues.cgi?action=show_story&story_id=100
The reason he likes to recruit off-balance young boys and girls is that they usually fall for his pretensions of grandeur because they don't know any better. True achievement in any one field - let alone nine - takes discipline, humility before the field of application, diligence, patience, and a high tolerance for frustration. These are qualities LaRouche has never acquired.
It is ALL hot air, kids.

 

eaglebeak
06-20-2007, 07:34 AM
Odd-One:
Did I read your post right? Did you really write the following about Alfred Rosenberg in your latest post?

Well, I don't recall dismissing him. I think I said his views were useful but almost certainly not the whole story.
Do you really mean to say that Alfred Rosenberg's views were useful??? Or was that some kind of revealing typo?
Do you KNOW who Alfred Rosenberg was? Hint: top Nazi, ideological watchdog, Jew-baiter, close associate of Hitler. His "racial theories" were considered to be the basis for the entire Nazi race war against the Jews. Executed at Nuremberg.
Which of his views do you consider "useful"? If this was NOT a typo, I think you need deprogramming in the worst way.
"Have fun, Steve"

 

eaglebeak
06-20-2007, 10:37 AM
Also, Odd-One:
Labor Cttee was quite close to Liberty Lobby in the 1978-80 period or thereabouts. Many Spotlight subscribers were New Solidarity subscribers, there were numerous meetings with Willis Carto and his sidekicks, and feature articles in New Solidarity and elsewhere by figures such as Scott Thompson retailed a variety of Liberty Lobby/neo-Nazi lines about the Holocaust, all of them false, but different.
A few examples:
(a) There was no Holocaust.
(b) It wasn't really a Holocaust--"only" 1.5 million Jews were killed. The 6 million figure is a fraud.
(c) People in the camps were worked to death, not exterminated (deliberate confusion between slave labor camps, concentration camps, and extermination camps)
(d) Okay, so millions of Jews were killed, but NOT BECAUSE THEY WERE JEWS. They were killed because they were communists, trade unionists, whatever (this was LaRouche's famous "Green File" theory, which he uttered when he was trying to climb down from his no-Holocaust position).
(e) Auschwitz was not an extermination camp. The people who died there died principally of typhus, typhoid, etc. That's why their bodies had to be burned.
And on and on. You are simply ignorant of the history of what was printed in Labor Committee publications, and of the background.
I take it you probably weren't born yet. If you were born, you had not yet attained the age of reason, if you know what I mean.
Shadok is absolutely right--as people have posted on this site before--about the fundamental lack of economic motive for the Holocaust. When Hitler had to choose between economic enhancement of the war effort, and the ECONOMIC DRAIN that the Holocaust represented, he chose the Holocaust and the economic drain.
The claim that the Holocaust was the result of so-called Schachtian economics (sic) is false, a claim made by the ignorant and the ill-willed and the anti-Semitic.
Read some history. "Have fun."

 

charltonrom
06-20-2007, 11:08 AM
Steve, I would like you to respond to the following:
I have not seen the infamous 1978 "Cult Origins of Zionism" pamphlet, I would very much like to; from what I have learned of Lyn's views since I left the org I find it highly plausible that it exists. According to some of the online sources (it's on Wikipedia) this is what Lyn wrote in the pamphlet:
"... the mythical "six million Jewish victims" of the Nazi "holocaust." This is worse than sophistry. It is a lie. True, about a million and a half Jews did die as a result of the Nazi policy of labor-intensive "appropriate technology" for the employment of "inferior races," a small fraction of the tens of million of others - especially Slavs - who were murdered in the same way Jewish refugee Felix Rohaytin proposes today. Even on a relative scale, what the Nazis did to Jewish victims was mild compared with the virtual extermination of gypsies and the butchery of Communists."
Now if that's not a denial that EXTERMINATION CAMPS, NOT LABOR CAMPS, existed, I don't know what is.
The line of those of anti-Jewish bent(which continues on as anti-Israel bent), is that "there were no death camps. There was hard work in the camps, ja, but no death camps."
1. Do you deny that Lyn said the above?
2. Do you, also, deny that there were EXTERMINATION camps, not just labor camps?
We wonders, aye, we wonders...
(I am informed that the "Cult Origins of Zionism" was an article in New Solidarity, not a pamphlet; the point remains.)
charltonrom@gmail.com
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 20, 2007)

 

borisbad
06-20-2007, 02:54 PM
There's a simple reason that LaRouche's emphasis on the economic roots of Hitler's Nazi experiment is germane to his anti-semitism, by removing the race supremacy roots of Hitler and the Nazi Party you can 1) shift the blame to Britain, the US, etc. for "imposing" economic austerity on Germany after WWI and remove blame from the Germans, and 2) you can then insist that any gov't that practices austerity in any form can be descried as Nazi and genocidal, including Israel, Jewish bankers like Rohatyn, etc. Now while there is much to be said about current financial policies of the IMF, World Bank, etc. it is shear demagoguery to equate all austerity with what the Nazis did, which is why we don't hold other fascist forms of gov't like Mussolini's to quite the same level of ignominy as we do the German Nazis. And besides to do so would get Helga upset with all her pretensions that German classical culture is the highest of all expressions of western civilization.

 

eaglebeak
06-20-2007, 03:32 PM
Charltonrom--the reason you were confused about pamphlet vs. New Solidarity article is because there is a pamphlet--or rather, a Campaigner--called Zionism is Not Judaism which is a compendium of really awful anti-Semitic writings, including by Jewish memebers of the LaRouche org like Mark Burdman and Paul Goldstein.
That's probably what the confusion was. That may be online too--I don't know.

 

sancho
06-20-2007, 04:06 PM
The "Zionism is Not Judaism" _Campaigner_ from 12/78:
http://wlym.com/PDF-77-85/CAM7812.pdf

 

sancho
06-20-2007, 04:43 PM
On the subject of flip-flops, here is an interesting paper from Dennis King's website
http://dennisking.org/hostile.htm
which gives a good look inside the sausage factory that is LaRouche's thought process.

 

borisbad
06-21-2007, 08:16 AM
Reading Factnet itself, there's an interesting strategy that they're now promoting for cult members who want to break free, namely suing the controllers of the cult. Think about LYM members who realize they got shafted quitting college or high school, perhaps losing scholarships, sources of support, etc. to go work at a cardtable for $5 per week if they're lucky. Or for not having medical care or social security payments withheld, etc. Such actions by current members who want to get out would force the organization to have to open its books (one of the issues that faced PMR and WorldComp as it was being looted by LaRouche).
Sounds like a possible viable strategy.

 

earnest_one
06-21-2007, 08:54 AM
Question:
Is/was LaRouche a "serious" anti-Semite (i.e., someone who would actually exterminate Jews if given absolute power) or is/was all of this ranting simply a way to attract attention, produce inflows of money, and stir things up?
A case could be made--at least in principle--that LL's rants are simply designed to "flush" out anti-Semitic support from the population, thus enabling intelligence agencies to spy on dangerous elements within the populace.
Here LL's method(s) would actually serve the Mossad, or some similar pro-Israel agency -- it would all be an "operation", he would simply be a "fake" anti-Semite.
Can the above be discounted, completely?

 

shadok
06-21-2007, 09:50 AM
The short answer is: YES.
The longer answer is: You don t need to "exterminate" the Jews to be an antisemite. Antisemitism is racism, not all racists want to "exterminate" the socalled "inferior races" like the nazis did. Com'on just be serious one minute.
There s nothing to gain, even from larouche' stanpoint, to behave like a "fake antisemite". He s living in America, isnt he?, not Saudi Arabia... There is no special "higher game"... that s self delusion. The Mossad don't care about larouche, who cares anyway? (I don't)

 

earnest_one
06-21-2007, 11:03 AM
shadok:
My question was qualified: I said "serious anti-Semite."
If he is NOT serious, then why is he considered so "dangerous" (King, et al.). Why such a fuss?
You say that the Mossad doesn't care about LaRouche. Fine, I believe that. But wouldn't they be interested in true anti-Semites, serious anti-Semites, trying to gain power internationally. Earlier in the thread, there was talk about some of LL's rants being picked up by the Arab world -- that this was reason not to discount him. Indeed, charltonrom advised not to "underestimate" him.
If LaRouche was a serious anti-Semite, then the Mossad would have every reason to be interested in him.
If we take this view, then I simply ask: why all the attention from King (etc.) with hyperbole saying, roughly speaking, that LL is/was one of the most dangerous men alive?
Obviously, he is a threat to naive young people, drawn into his bizarre cult -- a threat to those who know nothing of NCLC's history. That is obvious; the rest isn't, at least to me.
}

 

earnest_one
06-21-2007, 11:04 AM
shadok:
My question was qualified: I said "serious anti-Semite."
If he is NOT serious, then why is he considered so "dangerous" (King, et al.). Why such a fuss?
You say that the Mossad doesn't care about LaRouche. Fine, I believe that. But wouldn't they be interested in true anti-Semites, serious anti-Semites, trying to gain power internationally. Earlier in the thread, there was talk about some of LL's rants being picked up by the Arab world -- that this was reason not to discount him. Indeed, charltonrom advised not to "underestimate" him.
If LaRouche was a serious anti-Semite, then the Mossad would have every reason to be interested in him.
If we take this view, then I simply ask: why all the attention from King (etc.) with hyperbole saying, roughly speaking, that LL is/was one of the most dangerous men alive?
Obviously, he is a threat to naive young people, drawn into his bizarre cult -- a threat to those who know nothing of NCLC's history. That is obvious; the rest isn't, at least to me.

 

sancho
06-21-2007, 11:21 AM
He's doing a good job of exterminating the Jews in and around his own organization.
Start there.

 

shadok
06-21-2007, 11:44 AM
earnest_one
why dont you ask this question to Dennis King?
There are posts here from people who deny larouche s an antisemite!
Now, you re trying to "rate" his antisemitism..., from a scale of 1 to 10 maybe? I think it s going nowhere. Larouche is clearly an antisemite (I wont rate him because I dont care) Is he a major threat to the Jews in America or in the world? Of course not! Larouche has no power except over his own adepts, being jewish or not. I agree with you.

 

charltonrom
06-21-2007, 02:19 PM
To suppose, Earnest One, that Lyn is some sort of lightning rod/agent to attract the "real" anti-Semites, is an overcomplex explanation. I don't think the issue is what the Mossad is or is not doing. For me it's enough that there is a decades-long pattern from Lyn of anti-semitic utterances, and it's not just a prejudice. General Kranko is helping to poison the discursive waters, here and abroad, with his vile insinuations and allegations.
There is an international mobilization--- a conspiracy in fact--- to dissolve the "Zionist Entity." It's been underway since the 1948 war. It appears that plurality factions in the Mideast favor the destruction and annihilation of Israel. The roots of this sympathy are multiple but in the main, to my eye, lie right in the Koran and the other Islamic canonical writings, where Jews are referred to as apes and pigs and accused of having poisoned Mohammad.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=27737
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_and_the_Jews
Those who deny this fundamental fact, of a publicly-announced intent from leadership factions of the Muslim world towards the destruction of Israel, are either saps, ignorant, in willfull denial, or are like LaRouche abetting it.

charltonrom@gmail.com

 

borisbad
06-22-2007, 08:03 AM
I think that charltonrom has some good points, in that while Lyn's influence is very minimal in this country, people in the Islamic world and elsewhere like to refer to him as some kind of spokesman in the US when it reflects their interest to do so, especially if it whets their appetite against Israel, or covers up for the crimes of the terror groups like Hamas. They can do the same with people like KKKer David Duke, and for neanderthal conservatives like Pat Buchanan.
However, I would only go so far as using people like David Horowitz as my reference, as they have their own agenda. People like Horowitz and Daniel Pipes clearly want to whip up the same kind of hysteria against Arabs and Muslims in general as the pro-fascist groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. do against Jews. And of course, they will also deny any real legitimate concerns the Palestinian population as a whole may have against Isreali occupation.

 

charltonrom
06-22-2007, 10:18 AM
Borisbad, a brief reply:
First, all should know that Lyn gave another World Historical Webcast yesterday from Washington. I intend to analyze it in depth in due course, but I encourage everyone to listen to it or read the transcript.
On Horowitz and Pipes: Please refer me to writings that attempt to "whip up hysteria against Muslims." I don't think it's their fault that mainstream Islam regards:
non-Muslims as infidels;
all the world as awaiting Islamicization;
Israel in particular as a catastrophic affront---since losing Islamic lands to the infidels is intolerable.
As for the Israeli occupation: of course there could have been a Palestinian state anytime before 1967, indeed from the original UN mandate of 1947 which included one. Why didn't the Arab community put it into place, if they were so concerned with the Palestinians?
Ehud Barak's 2000 proposal was turned down by Arafat---who was on record as calling for a strategy of duplicity and incremental gains, in the eventual destruction of the Enemy.
There is a massive body of scholarship revealing the real nature of the historical crisis. I recommend the works of Robert Spencer over at jihadwatch.org. David Gelernter, of Yale---one of the Unabomber's victims--- is also an excellent reference point.
I don't view speaking the truth about an ideology as "whipping up hysteria" against its proponents.
To return to Lyn: I say don't underestimate him, because his vile rants do in fact resonate:
2006831%2C00.html,http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2006831,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0%2C)
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

kxxmark
06-22-2007, 01:53 PM
I saw the webcast. Lyn did not say anything new, I am not sure why they still organize them.

 

earnest_one
06-22-2007, 04:08 PM
"I saw the webcast. Lyn did not say anything new, I am not sure why they still organize them."
Deep Truths, repeated, are not a bad thing!! But seriously...
I listened for a few minutes only at the beginning, and then during the "questions" and "answers".
I noted that my connection failed right after Lyn announced the scandal of the century -- the BAE affair. I wondered if LL's web people purposely cut the line, in order to give the appearance that Lyn's big news/analysis was a grave threat to the world order and was, therefore, being suppressed. This has happened before, I believe, and they have written about the conspiracy...
A related remark/question: I note that during the Q&A sessions of these affairs, queries appear to come in from all over the world, yet the authors of the questions are often not identified by name.
So, for example, Debra Freeman announced some months back, that a question has come in from the US Senate. Yesterday, I heard that a question had come in from the "leadership of the PLO".
It would appear that these "questions" are simply setups for Lyn; I don't know about the PLO, but I have heard far too many questions from the Congress, the Senate and the Congressional Leadership. My guess is that most of it is fraudulent.
In any case, I am amused at two aspects:
1. He rarely addresses the questions and simply drones on and on and on. This is later packaged as a Platonic Dialogue.
2. The emphasis on the stature and prestige of each questionnaire, thus attempting to boost Lyn's status as a bonifide member of the "important" people. He is an elitist, through and through.

 

sancho
06-22-2007, 04:53 PM
Yeah, I watched "Mr. LaRouche" too. It's been the exact same posturing ("hmmm?") for over forty years, although much less energetic than the old days.
Wake me up when the sky is actually falling ...
zzz

 

howie
06-22-2007, 10:28 PM
It would appear that these "questions" are simply setups for Lyn; I don't know about the PLO, but I have heard far too many questions from the Congress, the Senate and the Congressional Leadership. My guess is that most of it is fraudulent.
That goes without saying.
On other bottom tier conspiracy outlets whom Art Bell laughs at
Jeff Rense?

 

jimmyo
06-22-2007, 11:15 PM
The EIR Quarterly reports still occasionally get mentioned - as the most successful economic forecasts of all time, until they had to stop because the stats from the gov were fraudulent. I figured once that would be something fairly easily proven, since from the glance I took at one they did seem to have numbers, and detail.
Never did get around to it.

 

sancho
06-23-2007, 02:00 AM
How could LaRouche possibly be considered a successful "forecaster" when he has been predicting a breakdown around the corner every single month for 42 x 12 = 504 months??? Pull any old "historic" webcast 1997, 1993, 2003 - the language is identical - and we're still here, ain't we? (BTW note that in his latest webcast, Der Fuehrer claims that it is not the business of economics to make forecasts!)
It's a variation on the child's "love bug" game: sit at an intersection and, as you hear a car approach predict that it is a love bug ... Buick, wrong ... love bug, Chevy, wrong ... love bug, VW, right ... so I have a 33% forecasting success rate.
Ask yourselves why none of LaRouche's works are published in refereed journals. Is it at all possible that every single editorial board of every single economics journal is, if not opposed to LaRouche, opposed to his superior "method?" Does that sound at all plausible, that EVERYONE in the field of economics in the Anglophone world is opposed to LaRouche? Does that make any sense at all? Or, as rational people, wouldn't you conclude that LaRouche fears scrutiny as he knows his so-called ideas are illegitimate? Isn't that the more likely explanation for the lack of acclaim he receives from outside his little cult?
It's all make believe, Lyndy in the shed, telling the local kids how he is the World's Greatest Economist ... it all makes you want to puke if you ever gave any of your time and energy to this fantasist, this f-ing lunatic with all his magical thinking b-s- ...

 

sancho
06-23-2007, 02:06 AM
When I was growing up there was this kid in the neighborhood who used to claim that he had an uncle who was an admiral. Now, all the other kids knew he did not have an uncle who was an admiral (we had asked the parents), but he would keep insisting (Hitler's Big Lie method.) Well, it got to the point where we would say with very little sarcasm, "hey, Frankie, how's your uncle the admiral." If there is such a thing, this is the LaRouche method: just wear people down by repeating the same lying tripe over and over and over until they are too tired to argue anymore with a madman. This constitutes assent and admiration enough for Little Lyndy so that he may sleep tight.
Lunatic.

 

shadok
06-23-2007, 03:34 AM
to sancho
"this is the LaRouche method: just wear people down by repeating the same lying tripe over and over and over until they are too tired to argue anymore with a madman."
How to turn lies into truths? : Repetition, repetition...
Yes I agree, this is larouche's method but not only his, it has some theoricians behind this, for instance Gustave Lebon whose literature was a direct inspiration to Goebbels'. Lebon was writing books on how to manipulate the crowds and reading this stuff is quite revealing.
http://www.fullbooks.com/The-Crowd2.html
from "The Crowd":
"When, however, it is proposed to imbue the mind of a crowd with ideas and beliefs--with modern social theories, for instance--the leaders have recourse to different expedients. The principal of them are three in number and clearly defined--affirmation, repetition, and contagion. Their action is somewhat slow, but its effects, once produced, are very lasting.
Affirmation pure and simple, kept free of all reasoning and all proof, is one of the surest means of making an idea enter the mind of crowds. The conciser an affirmation is, the more destitute of every appearance of proof and demonstration, the more weight it carries. The religious books and the legal codes of all ages have always resorted to simple affirmation. Statesmen called upon to defend a political cause, and commercial men pushing the sale of their products by means of advertising are acquainted with the value of affirmation.
Affirmation, however, has no real influence unless it be constantly repeated, and so far as possible in the same terms. It was Napoleon, I believe, who said that there is only one figure in rhetoric of serious importance, namely, repetition. The thing affirmed comes by repetition to fix itself in the mind in such a way that it is accepted in the end as a demonstrated truth. The influence of repetition on crowds is comprehensible when the power is seen which it exercises on the most enlightened minds. This power is due to the fact that the repeated statement is embedded in the long run in those profound regions of our unconscious selves in which the motives of our actions are forged. At the end of a certain time we have forgotten who is the author of the repeated assertion, and we finish by believing it."
This larouche's "method"... is the good old mind-control of the crowds that helped Hitler to get to power (not the british or jewish bankers) The difference is that larouche's "crowds" are the LYM, not the american people.
Lebon also explains that there is NO logic or "reason" in this process: the "crowds" are "emotionally" induced to believe certain "truths". This is why arguying logically with a larouchie is a waste of time.
"Sleep deprivation" also helps to condition one's brain, to put it in a "hypnosis-like" state, less receptive to logical arguments, more to emotionally-driven suggestions. Lebon explains how to use/manipulate certain words to achieve that. This socalled "hypnotic" effect of a leader (fuehrer) over the masses is well known in socio-psychology. Bear in mind that a LYM-er emotional background is fear, hysteria, paranoia and Bach's harmonics. Thats how the cult controls you.

 

xlcr4life
06-23-2007, 06:21 AM
A day at the Zoo with Yutes
This cult is becoming so funny that they could make more money as goofball entertainers in bars across America. Instead of an "Open mike night" you have "Open Cult night" and bring in different cults to talk a mile a minute about what ever the new cult directive is. Here is an example of three starving yutes who after finding no food or drink while stopping cars for Larouche stumble upon the DC Zoo.
This is all from the briefing.


  • , Ian O., Emma, and Wes I. hit a free class for adults
    at the Washington DC Zoo featuring 6 science panelists talking
    about "conservation of species". It was an informal class with
    free food and beer so the 50 or so people who showed up were
    loose, and interested in talking right away....................
    The format for the event was Q and A with questions written
    down on note cards and dropped into a basket. The LYM questions
    were numerous featuring such whoppers as, "Should we bring
    squirrels with us to Mars?", "If mother nature has killed off so
    many millions of species herself, why is it the responsibility of
    man to conserve anything?", and, "If humans are capable of
    creatively discovering new universal scientific principles, as no
    other species of animal is, isn't the greatest contribution an
    animal can make in its life, aiding in the food-nourishment of
    human beings?"................................

  • Now this is really not too far off what Lyn really thinks. I used to hear non stop riducule of any member who ever talked about environmental issues, industrial waste or actually cleaning up something like their apt or car. The stock answer you would always get is issue a trillion dollars in gold backed bonds , create millions of jobs exporting and everything will be solved. Any discussion of land use or environmental concerns over a LHL proposal amde you a prime target as a possible agent. In our crazy world you would pave over the Brazil and imprison anyone who who opposes it as someone who wants to commit genocide against humanity.

    Now back to yutes in a zoo.

  • ***
    As he read the LYM questions one by one, his face went
    from laughter, to shock, to petrified horror, as the realization
    that he had promised to read all the questions, beforehand, began
    to dawn on him.
    He panicked. Pacing back and forth like a sexually
    frustrated hyena he drew the attention of his female co-worker,
    who came over and took the LYM written cards from him, reading
    them herself, and then neatly folding them up, putting them in
    her back pocket, and conveniently disappearing them into the
    trash can........................
 

xlcr4life
06-23-2007, 06:24 AM
This is why you need to leave a cult. Every thought in your skull is now tinted with this stink of lunacy. In the LYM clubhouse you can whoop it up but in the real world you are getting laughed at as jackasses and losers by people with real jobs.

  • ***
    "For the gentlemen here, my question to you is, considering
    the regional warfare throughout the Congo for more than a decade
    now, and the lack of even basic infrastructure like clean water,
    doesn't it make more sense to build that road, even if it
    disrupts the animals, if it means that we could bring water to
    thousands of African children who otherwise would die? I mean,
    one thing you could do would be to build a high-speed magnetic
    levitated train system, so you could have the most advanced
    technology for transportation running several yards off the
    ground so that the animals could walk around down below. If push
    comes to shove, and people are dying, I say you build the road."

  • This lunacy never changes, just the technology. In the mid 1970s we wanted Fusion plants to stop Rockefellers genocide. In the late 1970s we wanted a nuclear fission plant on every street corner. In the early 1980s we wanted an SDI laser to save humanity . After that we wanted a 2 trillion dollar Mars mission to save Africa by finding an African astronaut to inspire the continent to follow Lyn. What ever our FEF members would report as far as irrigation or power requirements would be replaced with another endless parade of worship of Lyn as a requirement to save Africa. In the backround we would work with the Aprathied South African gov . There never is any reality to this because it all boils down to the cult of personality.
 

xlcr4life
06-23-2007, 06:27 AM
Lyn even did a neat trick where he took his predictions of mass death becuase of Rockefeller using a basic doubling of deaths and transplanted it wholesale to Africa with AIDS. We took the predictions of bubonic plague for the globe if Rocky was running the world and simply said that this "proved" that Lyn was the first to understand AIDS as a mass killer virus! When I left the LC and had to actually take a basic health science biology course it became clear to me how real health professionals examine outbreaks and how they spread. Lyn takes his doubling the cube road show and just doubled exposure of people till he got to the number where everyone is dead.
Lyn needs to save the remaining LYM more than he needs to save Africa.
Back to the Zoo.


  • One overtly gay youth started shouting that he was just an
    animal, but after being told several times that he had a mind and
    that he had ideas, he got quieter and said that he wasn't as
    smart as we were. We kept talking with him and he took some lit.
    and left a little more human than before..............
    It was clear from the stares we got after the event,
    that even while slightly intoxicated, the entire audience was
    profoundly affected by our intervention and were talking about
    what we had done. The LYM smiled and laughed the entire time,
    using irony and metaphor to bring people to reason.
    We really had a lot of fun turning these zoo crawlers back
    into their natural human forms again!
  • *
    In rethinking how simple comcepts like environmental concerns were negated in the LC ,a common theme was always used. The cover of the 1975 Fusion Campaigner had a Blake Painting on the cover. What is presented to yutes back then and today os this theme that man can be God Like and have the power to move mountians and rivers at will. If we wish to develop the mazaon river basin, then we will do it. No plant or animal has power over us and they need to get out of the way. Lyn would often say that the only future of a cow is to appear on his plate. This thinking perverts the idea and task of assisting humans in trouble with the idea that all is permitted to do so. This was important for the cult becuase we took the initial campaign of supprting Fuson power and turned ourselves into card table shriners at Airports raising money. We made the step to eliminate any concerns about environmental concern to one where showing concern for the envoronment was now the same as Nazism and would kill people a "Hunderd times worse than Hitler". In the eyes of a cult, anyone who asks for an environmental impact study of a project is a Nuremburg war criminal. Thus the outright inasanity of Al Gore's Nazi garden platform of the cult.
    It is pretty scary to reread what we published as it becomes very clear why many people labeled us as proto fascists. When you start to read things about mind control and cults, how Lyn operates also becomes clearer.
    xlcr4life@hotmail.com
 

charltonrom
06-24-2007, 03:47 PM
Very good... Some excellent posts here recently.
So: if one were to display some concern that maybe razing the rain forest is not so good; that overfishing the oceans and choking them with sewage and plastic rubbish may be bad; that maybe it's at least plausible to think that pouring millions of tons a year of CO2 and particulates into the atmosphere, perhaps has an effect we should consider; if one were to have any thoughts along these lines then one is equivalent to or stands in league with the NAZI WAR CRIMINALS!
Green ideology can be regressive, man as a pestilential agent and such, but even in terms of Lyn's Vernadsky-ite theories, the interest in management of the biosphere should be considered a healthy instinct. However Al Gore is an impediment to Lyn being received as the New FDR in the Democratic Party so therefore Al Gore is a NAZI.
"Technically he is a fascist, hmmmmm?"
If you want to whip up the troops again and frighten/cajole contacts on the phones or at the card tables, tell them that (insert name here, e.g., the nominees for the high court) are actually NAZIS!
Methinks he doth protest too much.
Much becomes possible through the miracle of CME, Continuous Methane Emission; just repeat it over and over and over as Shadok notes quoting the perceptive Lebon and it will certainly stick with some minds of the devotee sort. Later if you have to flip-flop the Demon can be salvaged and transformed into a glowing and virtuous Hero. Recently this operation has been done on Jimmy Carter, once a great fascist bugbear but now a Patriotic Ex Presidential Elder Statesman defended by Lyn against the sordid Jewish Lobby.
Maybe in the future the Nazi Al Gore will have been transformed by Lyn's philosophical ministrations into a soft and cuddly Friend of the Forgotten Man.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

howie
06-24-2007, 11:04 PM
I catch these myspace postings every once in a while, which is what happens when you have Larouche pegged as a search phrase. A while ago I saw a post on myspace by a young Lesbian who was tagging along, and my thought was "Larouche. He don't like that gay thing."
Here, I have a thought about this 33 year old punk-rocker:
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=156385266& blogID=280076024
He realizes that Punk Rock is one of those British - Zionist - Synarchist plots, doesn't he?

 

charltonrom
06-25-2007, 12:56 AM
I sure hope he realizes this---just as he must come to realize that true musical creativity ends with Chopin, Brahms and Dvorak; that jazz, blues, rock, modernism, ALL are OPERATIONS, of the dreaded controlling oligarchy, put out to entrance and stupefy the mob.
Again, what might be an argument, a preference detailed in a nuanced presentation, namely that the Classical is a real concept and superior (and please don't tell me that Lyn has successfully made this case) becomes another in a series of oafish, hamfisted diatribes.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

charltonrom
06-25-2007, 12:59 AM
And speaking of oafish hamfisted diatribes, I want now to return to the Doctrine Project, i.e., to the Creed, the complex of assertions by Lyn and by such chief Ministers of Truth/Defenders of the Faith as Bruce Director and Larry Hecht, that together comprise the current ideological framework within which the organization operates.
The core of the current doctrine: the LYM, following Lyn's lead, are the new saviors of the world. They are building a New Scientific Revolution, by reviving the Pure Method of True Science that has been suppressed by the Oligarchy.
As I have noted in previous posts, this Pure Method was known to Pythagoras and Plato, perhaps also to Archimedes, but was attacked by the evil Aristotle and Ptolemy, who were acting at the behest of the imperial forces of their day. After this epistemological catastrophe the world fell into a Dark Age for centuries. Only with the work of Nicholas of Cusa, "the founder of European experimental science" as Lyn has put it, was the Pure Method in some degree recovered. In due course such followers of the Pure Method as Leonardo and Kepler emerged. Kepler was a "Cusa follower" because he mentions Cusa a few times in his works. He made (according to Lyn and the Ministers) his "uniquely original discovery of gravity" by dint of his subscription to the Pure Platonic Method.
The Oligarchy could not but react to this threat of a nascent Platonic Humanist Revival, which they did by a selective degradation of the scientific enterprise: they deemed it permissible to allow the PRODUCT of science, but they astutely, subtly sought to crush the Pure Method which alone produces Discovery. This they did by launching and sponsoring the careers of such mechanists as the "house-lackey of Venice's Paolo Sarpi," Galileo; and of Descartes and Hobbes.
Above all epistemic villains, however, stands the satanic figure of Isaac Newton.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

charltonrom
06-25-2007, 01:01 AM
I recall Lyn at one of the conferences fulminating about the disgusting fraud: "Newton!" he raged. Thus was the case made; the entirety of modern society's knowledge is contemned, by its complicity in maintaining this absurd esteeming. The world in fact displays a "Pagan Worship" of Newton!! In the LYM/Lyn creed, Newton is a "black magic specialist" and utter fraud. Contrasted to the inferior "mechanical" method of these fraudsters stands the "dynamic" method of Leibniz.
In the early years of the Labor Committee, Leibniz does not I believe appear much at all and Descartes was accorded a place of honor as one of the founders of European modern subjectivity; later he became a dastardly villain. Why should would-be scientific guru Lyn feel the need to trash and vilify these figures?
Follow Lyn long enough and you will see that he is fond of bragging up how he "says things you're not supposed to say." I also once heard Lyn say that he has to try and figure out ways to create change. The combination of his megalomanic messiah complex and his zest to be a revolutionary iconoclast are perhaps the ultimate explanations.
But some tactical or topical forces are probably also important. It would seem that the influence of Robert Moon on Lyn should be mentioned as a possible source. Moon spoke I think very well of Kepler. (Now don't get me wrong, Kepler is a critically important transitional figure; but to say that Kepler universalized gravitation as a principle is not only wrong, it is ignorantly wrong, and has to be exposed as such.)
As for Newton, Lyn apparently once read John Maynard Keynes' comments and seems to have judged that these were decisive, even though it takes but a moment's thought or a little further reading to establish that Keynes' comments are basically ignorant, based on a sampling error: Keynes was working off a small selection of Newton's writings; and anyway since his comments it's been discovered that the alchemical traditions extant in Britain in Newton's day were more in the way of early chemistry than the lead-into-gold nonsense that was already a subject of fun as early as Chaucer.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

charltonrom
06-25-2007, 01:04 AM
Additionally Lyn at some point became aware of the essay by Charles Babbage, "Reflections on the Decline of Science in England" and Babbage's formation of the Analytical Society whose (successful) aim was to promote the adoption in Britain of "continental mathematics" and the Leibnizian notation for the calculus, over the dot-notation in practice in Britain since the time of Newton. Lyn and the Truth Ministers turn this polemic of Babbage, directed mostly at the Royal Society, into a vast conspiracy by the oligarchy's Venetian Party, that clubbed down Leibniz and his superior method and led to the "destruction of science in England" as it was recently put by Propaganda Minister Herr Hecht.
Now the question of the calculus is large and complex, which I shall treat in a subsequent posting; but to the notion of a "destruction of science in England," it must be said: that "destroyed tradition" not only produced Babbage; it produced a lot of other critical developments in European science and technology. Edmond Halley discovered the proper motion of stars (the slow shift in the shape of constellations) in 1718. Stephen Hales' Vegetable Staticks of 1727 exemplifies the revival of natural history ongoing in the period. Parliament formed a commission in 1714 to investigate solutions to the problem of determining longitude at sea; both Newton and Halley sat on the board. During the period after Newton Britain led the world not only in absolute and relative levels of industrialization and industrial output but also in key forms of scientific instrumentation such as timekeeping devices and marine chronometers, at which the French and even the Swiss lagged far behind. Around 1735 James Bradley improved on Ole Roemer's estimate of the speed of light. King George III granted a pension to William Herschel to promote his astronomical studies. One need only mention further the names of John Harrison, Joseph Black, Henry Cavendish, Joseph Priestley, Humphrey Davy, and John Dalton, as well as that of Babbage himself, to expose to a final light the Little Lie: science was not in any sense destroyed in England after Newton.
But Lyn and the organization, all organizations and human associations perhaps, require a rationalizing ideology that justifies their existence, their mission, and the rapacious appetites and kookeries of their leaderships---as we see in Lyn's case. "We Alone Can, and Must Save The World, from Newton and the Oligarchy!"
charltonrom@gmail.com
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 25, 2007)
(Message edited by charltonrom on June 25, 2007)

 

borisbad
06-25-2007, 08:30 AM
Another British figure that escaped Lyn's "ironical polemicization" was James Watt, who I remember was the subject of a Fusion issue. But as per usual, he was also the subject of some type of evil machination by some British East India Company - Dutch oligarchical malefactor.
True Lyn has always attacked the greens in the same fashion he did the counter-culture (and some of it may be warranted because there is definitely an anti-science, Luddite element in the environmental movement. The LaRouche solution to pollution was to promote the so-called fusion torch as the wonderful device that would break everything down into elemental compounds. Of course the fact that we have neither working fusion reactors, nor fusion torches would sort of imply that there is no interim solution to the ecological problems we face today, but it was part of LaRouche's continual utopian vision that simply coming up with some new invention or program a la maglev trains will solve the world's problems.

 

xlcr4life
06-25-2007, 08:48 PM
LPAC-MAN FEVER

Now we head to Detroit where our fearless yutes are busy trying to raise the 500 dollars so they can attend the DC WebCast with Lyn last week. I read this exerpt from the briefing a few times and could not figure out what "Aufstrag" means. Then I looked it up and it is from a fantasy game one can play where an enemy castle or area is called "Aufstrag".
My God this so funny. The cult sends a convicted felon named Don Phau who played a real life game of "Get the Loot for Lyn" , spent some time in prison, convinced himself that he was a martyr and then began to write looney tunes about Rock and Roll and John Lenon to testify in Virgina hearings on video games..
http://gamepolitics.com/2007/05/20/larouche-staffer-likens-violent-games-to-heroin-in-va-tech-testimony/
Don, who I think lost his wife when they left him and the bizarro world of Leesburg now is a video game expert and ready to use another tragedy to prove that he is not a run down boomer, but someone who still has energy to worship Lyn. Get a grip Don, you are as usefull to Lyn as that 20 year old Kmart shirt you are wearing. At the right time, you throw it away after it is used up.
The Detroit yutes are now sent to a non inner city area to raise loot by a yute for a koot. I figured that the cult would wait until some Iran war escalation to put the yutes out all night, but Lyn knows a lot more about running a cult than I do.
Just read this fun filled day saving humanity as the yutyes are deployed like little LPAC-MAN to slay the mythical demons and delusions in Lyn's head.
This is too funny. The local NC can use a phone to send the LPAC-MAN all over Detroit and into Aufstrug! In most reginal offices you wil find a big wall map covered in plastic film with erasable markers nearby. The calls come in at noon for an update and a first report on the money. The figures for the squads are placed on the map and a running total is kept. It is running because if you do not hit quota, you will be running to another spot on the map before heading back to the LYM Clubhouse.
If you think I am joking, read this exerpt from a recent briefing.

  • **
    Today Jamar, Tyler, Bill and Shawn were a great example of
    the principle of an aufstrag deployment, staying out until 9PM
    and moving to different sites until they raised at least $100
    LPAC. They stayed at a Saint Clair Shores Post Office for most
    of the day, deflecting the dirty stares of irate Republicans but
    took a short break when it closed and then moved to a traffic
    island closer to the office to make quota.............................
    The last hour and a half was spent at a traffic island
    raising the remaining $19.
 

xlcr4life
06-25-2007, 08:53 PM
Yo Jamar, Tyler, Bill and Shawn . Keep on staying out till 9PM and really inhale those fumes for Lyn. This is not all folks. After a great day in the sun and sucking in exhaust, you can return to the LYM clubhouse for another 2 hour briefing and eventually get home by midnight so you can start all over again. If you do not hit quota, then tack on another hour of being the focus of an attack by the local leader. These guys have decades of yelling at their wives for not hitting quota, yutes are a just a warm up.
The LPAC-MAN are now being viewed as pawns in a version of Dungeons and Dragons called "Castles & Crusades" This is wild stuff as Lyn now has a real live version of a fantasy life role playing game using real yutes to play characters who are sent to Aufstrag areas to slay his imaginary enemies!
Instead of calling Phil and Harley NCs, you can call them Barons.
http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/index.html

xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

howie
06-25-2007, 10:28 PM
Speaking of the Virginia Tech -- Video Game flogging, check this audio of a panel politely brushing off a LYMer:
http://lifeparticles.com/2007/larouche-follower-cut-short-in-latest-virginia-tech-panel-meeting/
Too funny.

 

sancho
06-26-2007, 02:16 AM
Whatever happened to the "National Anti-Drug Coalition?" That was another cause/front group (like violent video games) designed to squeeze dollars out of housewives and the otherwise nonpolitical. One used to brandish a ratty copy of _High Times_ magazine at the card-table shrine and threaten the good citizens of middle America (from Middle Earth) that this is what "our kids" were reading. And now to meddle in people's pain at Viriginia Tech just to score a few points and contributions ...
No one is more shameless than Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr. - or, to borrow from Bob Grant on LBJ: Lyndon Hermyle Fraud.

 

charltonrom
06-26-2007, 08:02 PM
All right.
From today's LPAC site:
LaRouche Addresses Video Conference in Mexico
LaRouche in Rome: "The Future of the Economy: Market Radicalism or New Deal?"
LYM Brings LaRouche's Solutions to Detroit Town Meetings on Impeachment and Gas Prices
California Democratic Leaders Respond to LaRouche's Ibero-American Webcast at FDR Legacy Club Meeting
LaRouche: The United States is in a state of "political ungovernability"
Rep. Ron Paul Hits American Corporatism, "Leaning to Fascism"
Second Part of WAPO Cheney Expose Further Reinforces LaRouche Assessments
The BAE Systems Affair and The Anglo-Dutch Imperial Slime Mold
Let's face it: Lyn is a titan of output while we are basically whining little critics. Let NO ONE doubt his impact and significance. Indeed I myself still find him charismatic and appealing at some level: I hope, ardently, that Israel doesn't pre-emptively nuke Iran. On the other hand I hope Iran doesn't GET the bomb and carry through their oft-expressed goals.
Should we try to stop them?
I don't see how one can ethically take a pre-emptive strike. We should speak against Israel or the US making a pre-emptive strike. The corollary to this view, of course, is that Israel may have to be sacrificed.
And after them... turn Mecca into a glasspane.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

sancho
06-26-2007, 08:54 PM
We are not whining little critics: we are relatively mature human beings who pursue meaningful and manageable goals successfully on a daily basis.
I do not find LaRouche in the least charismatic: he is all over the place like the town whore angling for attention from as many customers as possible. He addresses many issues not out of his abundance but rather out of his inability to focus and complete any one thing. It is also the smokescreen he creates to suck in neurotic youths unsure of themselves. P.T. Barnum had nothing on this moral and intellectual fraud, the Granite State Oz. As such, his impact and significance are nugatory.
But if one needs someone to idolize to get through life - whatever floats one's boat - but LaRouche multitasks as a nobody and a windbag.

 

eaglebeak
06-27-2007, 03:41 AM
Israel may have to be sacrificed? Gimme a break--haven't the Jews been sacrificed often enough?
I agree with Sancho--LaRouche isn't even remotely charismatic. He is intellectually, emotionally, psychologically, and physically repellent.
A titan of output? Well, I suppose--but the question is the NATURE and CONTENT of the output. If a baby pees a lot, is he a titan of output?
It is incredibly easy for LaRouche to "output": Since by definition whatever he writes, says, thinks, or thinks about thinking is an act of genius, there is no self-editing going on and certainly no editing by anyone else.
Hence the surrealistic quality of his speeches, webcasts, and articles. They are free-associational hodge-podges, filled with half-digested information and wholly false "facts," ignorant conclusions, and mean-spirited schoolyard pettiness.
Every "economic" treatist says exactly the same thing, different predicates (depending on what's hot).
My land! All that LaRouche is is a gigantic ego with a sounding board and a group of little helpers who enable the Great Man to sit around writing and uttering.
The degree of his output is a sign of mania, not genius or charisma. Consider WHAT he says. I could write every bit as much on a daily basis, and give as many speeches, IF I DIDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE CONTENT AND ITS TRUTHFULNESS.
When I quit, I discovered that virtually no one outside the organization and its magic circle had ever heard of Lyn. I would tell someone my deep dark secret of long association with LHL, and he or she would say "Lyndon who?" or something like it.

 

sancho
06-27-2007, 05:20 AM
hahaha
It's called ADD by the way, not genius. Is it also true that the yutes will soon be getting packages of soylent green with their stipendicles?
Well, my day is pretty busy: I'll be putting the finishing touches on the first draft of my treatise on harpooning through the ages this morning, and then in the afternoon I'll submit my quantum gravity theory to _Physical Review Letters_ from my laptop as I coach a national-calibre little league team to its tenth straight victory ... all in a day's fantasy, er, work ...

 

earnest_one
06-27-2007, 09:48 AM
Thanks, guys/gals... pretty funny stuff, the last few posts.
Here is my small contribution. Look at:
http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/scigen/
Some kids from MIT wrote a program that generates computer science papers, on demand, one after the next -- complete with references, etc. They submitted one of them to a conference and got invited! The story behind all this is offered -- look at the top of the page.
The generated content is complete nonsense--at least to anyone sane/educated. Go to the site, type in your name, or someone else's name (e.g. Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr. et al.), and the program will generate an "original" paper. You can then save it in PDF or Postscript format.
If you don't like the first one, point and click until you get something of "world historical" importance. There are graphs, too, although nothing as profound as the triple curve.
Machine generated charisma! The crash has finally arrived!!

 

sancho
06-27-2007, 10:08 AM
Excellent! But there is a site I posted here a few years ago which did the same for deconstruction papers - it's hilarious - as it illustrated the associative sausage-making of LaRouche's "intellectual life."
Let's see if I can find it again ... click the link towards the end of this sample nonsense paper:
http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo
The Dada engine hasn't been maintained it appears, but it's still a load of fun. If only a disillusioned yute with computer know-how could do a LaRouche-Riemann generator ...

 

earnest_one
06-27-2007, 01:16 PM
That's hilarious, Sancho. Many thanks, truly.
Those computer science papers are easy to spot as random nonsense -- the premium was put on humor. The generating code produces "context free" grammar.
The papers produced by your link seemed a bit more "polished". This whole topic is extremely amusing and, or course, could be wildly instructive to intelligent yutes.
Long Live Creative Mentation and The Hypothesis of The Higher Hypothesis!

 

sancho
06-27-2007, 03:19 PM
Ah, yes, the ol' HOTHH!
That was another of those rubrics that had absolutely no meaning like "universal physical principles." Speaking of which, why aren't the yutes discussing the fundamental weak electromagnetic force as a "universal physical principle?" My guess is that their level of mathematical and scientific understanding does not permit them to understand it: much easier to potter around with the much simpler work of the astrologer Kepler - and to fool themselves that they are performing scientific "research." If they were only to look in any contemporary textbook, they would see how laughably uncreative and unknowledgeable they are in comparison with their peers who are persevering through course after course towards a true career in science or mathematics. I guess those benighted academic drudges don't have the ol' HOTHH working for them, or the "Dirichlet principle", etc.

 

charltonrom
06-27-2007, 05:01 PM
I just met a former fellow-organizer, still in the org himself, for a pitcher of beer. The chief theme was Physical Economy.
Lyn is a hype-meister, without doubt. His doctrines---on science, physical principles, Newton, &c---are frequently outlandish and/or idiotic. But none of us has a cadre of 20-ish types, and 30-ish types, and 40-ish types, and 50-ish types, out on the streets, at tax offices, at intersections, on the phones, saturating DC and other cities and townhall meetings and universities with calls to support Cheney's impeachment, re-tool the auto sector to produce maglev, work with China/Russia/India on a new, gargantuan development framework...
I don't support the impeachment, personally. I find LaRouche's anti-Israelism very worrisome. But nobody here can do much more than flick their flaccid quills at the guy.
Why NOT a New Bretton Woods monetary system re-organization, with huge new R & D investments in life sciences, space science, &c?
It is being discussed. And Lyn is pushing the discussion. No doubt he has huge warts. But he is a force, whereas we are all basically commentators or carpers, gnats on the back of the musk ox.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

xlcr4life
06-27-2007, 05:44 PM
Lyn is a big fish in a tiny aquarium of yutes and gravel where smart sharks skim off the loot weekly. Read the OPS reports where a 1000 flyers are handed out in a metro area of 2 million and 900 end up in the trash. If the yutes can bring in one or two bodies into the LYM clubhouse for a few hours, then you declare victory.
The notion that there is a lack of scientific R&D is also an LHL delusion for the yutes to imagine that we are n a dark age. Again, Lyn is th ebig fish in the small bowl. Go to any good book store and pick up every business, investment and science magazine and see how much money is being spent on both public and private funds for science. The amount of money is staggering and is being plowed into medical, green , energy, computers, electronics, communications, auto and transport, military, nano tubes, hydroponics, waste recyling into raw materials , stem cells , gene therapy and countless other technologies which people need and want . The demand is based on what can be delivered for a growing population with MORE income and demand.
Lyn's demands are worthless and as EagleBeak pointed out what always happens after you leave. No one knows, cares or gives a rat's as* about Lyn.
No one wants a fixed monetary system except those countries who would benefit from it. Read a business daily and you will seel that exporting countries want their currencies to giver them a better value for selling.
Lyn has never bought anything with his own money or ran a business in the past 40 years with his own money. Lyn does not have anything in his name for a reason. His life has been based as a leach from the first breath of life. Without his ex wives he would have starved and been a homeless bum. Without a cult he would have nothing to command or to leach from.
There is nothing there folks except misery and delusions for all.
Lyn is pushing nothing except an endless world of fantasy and delusions mixed in with what ever happens to show up in a few newspapers around the world. If you want some fun, take a few recent briefs and lay them side by side and see how close the middle sections are with that months current kick with a new beginning and a common end of only he and the LYM know what to do. If you have been in long enough, you will recognise how the writing works.
The ONLY thing which made it different years ago was the editing where we had talented editors who could make the names and dates at least seem half way coherent.
I do not need a cult to get results in my community, line of work and life. I can invest money in technology and call my mayor and other elected officials to discuss legislation and thngs which directly effect me. I can fund , suport and work with orgs and groups which are not cults and do not have some asinine notion that hitting 10,000 hits on a goofy web site will be the deciding factor in world history.
You will be free when you all figure out that this whole thing is designed NOT to succeed by design by Lyn and to succeed as a cult of personality
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

earnest_one
06-27-2007, 08:03 PM
For all his apparent resources, it would appear that Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr. is the LEAST potent political leader yet to walk the land.
XLCR is correct: In terms of a positive effect on mankind, the whole thing is designed NOT to succeed. It IS a cult of personality, designed for HIS benefit.
That said, Lyn does indeed take correct stands on many issues. So f...ing what.

 

eaglebeak
06-27-2007, 09:25 PM
Actually, it's not the case that all the rest of us are merely gnats on the musk ox's back. Plenty could be done to expose, stop, ridicule, etc. LaRouche. Maybe that's why there are 400 (or whatever it is) members in the U.S. today...
LaRouche's views, positions, etc., are not the point--the point is that he has a smalltime cult that deprives people of their will, their identities, and their money. Oh, and sometimes their lives.
So Charltonrom is still in the phase of awestruck. But there are a zillion two-bit culty operations in this country with a handful of yutes or others out flacking for them.
XLCR is right--the LYM aren't exactly shaking up the country with their "organizing." From what I hear, their efficiencies per manhour are atrocious--I heard about a squad of five who deployed for 15 manhours to make $50. Wowzer! $3-plus an hour?
Forget about LaRouche's economics--it's a joke, and the parts that aren't a joke are lifted from someone else. Extended reproduction is not a LaRouche discovery.
Finally: generally if LaRouche takes Stand X on Issue Y, you can be pretty sure there's something seriously wrong with Stand X.
Verdict: No redeeming social value. Give it up, kids.

 

sancho
06-28-2007, 02:13 AM
The Psychiatrist is IN - 5 cents
I find the continuing invidious comparison between us (allegedly impotent) posters and the Grand (allegedly all-potent) Magus amusing. It would require a "therapeutic response" - were I a therapist.
Charltonrom, perhaps you do not have a career or direction yet, so see yourself as an impotent gnat: but for most of the rest of us, we are professional people with families who address world problems as best suits our talents and station in life. (We also complete tasks on a daily, weekly, and annual basis.) One of those tasks for which we are suited by virtue of our dubious past involvement with Fearless Leader is to warn off potential recruits who may get sucked into the LaRouche cult before they have a full picture of what has been going on behind the scenes there for 40+ years. Otherwise, what we do apart from FACTNet is to live REAL lives and solve REAL problems - we thus have no time for the Walter Mitty fantasies you seem to enjoy. I would suggest you examine yourself and your own bent toward grandiosity and ask if this is at all healthy. LaRouche is not at all a model for a sane human being.

 

borisbad
06-28-2007, 05:43 AM
If you think about it, in the 80s we were out organizing on streets for at least $100.00 quotas per day (earlier on we often made that at intersections selling "roast Carter's nuts" or Nuke Khomeini bumper stickers). At airports we would often have quotas of $200-$400.00 per day. So if you assume that the org. today is bragging when a LYM squad hits $100.00 per day, and take into account inflation, these organizational geniuses are reaping maybe 1/10 of what our "baby boomer" squads had gotten in the 80s. The only excuse they might give is whereas we usually were organizing front groups like Fusion Energy Foundation and Nat'l Antidrug Coalition they're pushing Lyn directly. But that in itself should show what LaR has really achieved over the past twenty years. And of course, if we also look at the fact that Lymers are getting less in stipends than members in the 80s did and factor inflation into that, you can really see an exponential downward spiral that could only be plotted as a Riemann-Gaussian phase shift change.

 

eaglebeak
06-28-2007, 12:46 PM
There's a word from our colleague, former LC member Nick Benton, who has an article on LaRouche with reference to Ken Kronberg's death in the Falls Church (VA) News-Press.
http://www.fcnp.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1473&Ite mid=35
Nick is of course the one who broke the story that the Sterling, VA suicide of April 11 was Ken Kronberg and was a LaRouche associate.
Also, there's a New Republic article on LaRouche-is-crazy, but it doesn't say much.

 

borisbad
06-28-2007, 01:07 PM
I was rereading some of Charltonrom's earlier posts, especially on Riemann-Gauss and LaRouche's distortions of same, as well as his comments on the obvious anti-semitism of the organization and the way it brow-beats Jewish members to repudiate their backgrounds and was perplexed at the meaning of his last post. Perhaps he has had a moment of doubt, but that doesn't mean that LaRouche is making any real contribution to human survival (and if so, that the contribution is positive). As has been pointed out by many, the work of many of the people who have left this organization have made real contributions. Bob Zubrin comes to mind as one of the more noteworthy in terms of media attention. Others have done documentaries on PBS, others simply have gone on to pursue careers in business, law, medicine, etc. That doesn't negate an interest in tings beyond one's own home and family. I know of a couple of people who are attorneys for labor unions, for instance.
It's great to have big ideas. I recollected how in the 50s, when everybody was infected by a perhaps overblown faith in science and technology, we used to read mags like Popular Science and Popular Mechanics. I know I believed we'd have space colonies, we'd all have either personal helicoptors or better yet jetpacks to get around, internal combustion engine cars would be a thing of the past, etc. Some of the utopian marvels have come to pass in things like computers, cell phones, GPS devices, etc. but we don't have robots serving our every need, still use cars with almost the same technologies as cars in the 50s, etc. So having so-called all encompassing programs that are going to solve all the world's problems is nothing new.
As a Marxist might look at it, LaRouche is the proverbial technocrat, bureaucrat, that thinks that simply coming up with the perfect "program" replaces moving actual forces in the economy-working class, bourgoisie, lumpens, etc. He's also an idealist in the Hegelian sense in that he doesn't see changing society's forms of class relations through means of production and distribution of wealth as primary, but somehow thinks that perfect ideas (a la Plato) will instead transform humanity into a bunch of golden souls with LaRouche as the philosopher king.

 

charltonrom
06-29-2007, 05:52 AM
All right and very well. To wax grandiosely for a moment I suppose that few have done more herein than I to point out Lyn's topical sins, absurd doctrinal planks, and systemic cult methods. On the other hand it appears to me that he does have some impact: it's clear that Kucinich's motion to impeach Cheney comes from his by-now extensive schooling from the yutes. This impeachment tack, like it or not, has accelerated somewhat. And one could point out, again, that Hezbollah is linking to EIR; and consider this:
(June 6) Lyndon LaRouche engaged in a high-level public discussion today in Rome with Deputy Finance Minister Alfonso Gianni, and Giulio Tremonti, former Finance Minister and current vice chairman of the Italian Chamber of Deputies, on the theme: "The future of the economy: market radicalism or New Deal?" All speakers addressed the current strategic and economic crisis and offered proposals for a solution, sometimes converging and sometimes differing, but all agreeing on the necessity to rebuild the world physical economy...Gianni expressed his agreement with LaRouche on the need for a new financial system: He stressed saving the welfare state from the assault of hedge funds, and introducing labor rights to a larger number of nations in order to promote fair economic competition. He said that a reviewed Keynesian approach could be considered to relaunch investments in the physical economy. Tremonti noted that his high consideration of LaRouche's thinking, dates to when he read LaRouche's proposals for global infrastructural development for the first time, an impression which has been confirmed by the depth of LaRouche's intervention. It is rare to hear a politician locate his ideas in history, Tremonti said--and maybe his view is a "madman's view," but history often moves forward based on the views of such "madmen." http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/06/06/lyn_speaks_2parties_updated.asp
Lyn has krankoid/anti-Israel/paranoid/megalomanic aspects, and woe to those who gather to his flame; but his megalomanic, itinerant globetrotting, and his continuing emphasis on the man vs ape question, provides an avenue or opening onto the historical for some. People crave significance. That's why he maintains appeal, even with the warts.
I admit that I am not content to merely observe history. Lyn is a window onto fantasy possibilities. I disagree with him on most everything but I will say this for him, you can't fault him for indolence. It's cultish, but of a higher order. I don't see the Moonies briefing Kucinich nor Italian finance ministers.
Check it out: "A Strategy for War Avoidance" http://www.larouchepac.com/pdf_files/2007/0612_BeringCvr72.pdf

 

sancho
06-29-2007, 06:27 AM
Oh, come on.
Let's add up the numbers:
Add: Kucinich + Tremonti = 2
Less: Jews Gelber, Duggan, Kronberg = (3)
Less: >400 abortions = (400)
Less: >400 traumatized women = (400)
Sum: > (801) people influenced by LaRouche for starters
Yeah, he's a f-ing firecracker of influence.
Get a f-ing life.

 

charltonrom
06-29-2007, 08:43 AM
Sancho, if you would be so kind as to direct me to your publications/website, and your various global lobbying organization's offices, I'll consider adding my assessment therof to my would-be profanitized life. Otherwise, shut the f-up.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

earnest_one
06-29-2007, 09:14 AM
Let's (try to) be civil here kids.
Have I missed something? I fail to see evidence of any causality between Kucinich's views on impeachment and the "work" of LYM or Lyn, let alone Lemon Lime. Has Kucinich publicly acknowledged LaRouche in some manner?
Perhaps he answered a question, or read some literature. Surely, there is "some" influence. Just like the tweeting birds influenced my fine day yesterday. Or my walk down the street influenced, in a very subtle way, the gravitational forces affecting my neighbors.
Please, Charltonrom: Demonstrate some causality, Sir. Where is the potency?
Given the entire universe of forces influencing Kucinich, it seems unlikely that LaR has had more than a minor effect. Kucinich has opposed BushCo from day one.

 

sancho
06-29-2007, 09:27 AM
Child.
Where in any of the world's Scriptures is it written that "Thou shalt have publications/website and various lobbying organisations?" Is that the criterion by which you measure the worth of an individual? And notice: it's all TALK. Name ONE (positive) thing Lyndon LaRouche has accomplished in over forty years of TALK - just ONE.
Funny how your hero fails to quote Leibniz' statement, Aus Taten werden Leute. The LaRouche-Riemann method is Aus Schpraechen werden Dinguses.
Either his overinflated sense of self resonates with your own ("I suppose that few have done more herein than I to point out Lyn's topical sins, absurd doctrinal planks, and systemic cult methods") or you're just a third columnist for this obscure American leader of a tiny and insignificant cult of personality.
The sad thing is that you now have more than enough evidence at hand to know better than to think this guy has any influence at all in the world, let alone that he is "driving" any discussions anywhere outside of the cramped living quarters of the scruffy youth he has recruited or the addled minds of the disoriented "boomers" who are loitering on overpasses throughout the country.

 

shadok
06-29-2007, 10:03 AM
The myth of Larouche's "influence"...
Recently he s developped the concept that "infinitimals" are the greatest power in this universe... So we are invited (subconsciously) to conclude that larouche's infinitesimal influence in world politics makes him the "greatest political power" on this planet. This is just another way to desperately defend the need of the mythical existence of some secret inner elites: their supposed existence vindicates his own existence as a non-entity, an "infinitesimal" elite, a political quark...
His "influence" is just a magician trick. It s all about perception and deception, using "coincidences" (that is to make a "connection") which the briefing writer will automatically equates to "causality". "This is not just a coincidence" is a typical mantra of the org, especially the "coincidence" which suits, which "proves" larouche 's infinitesimal power.
It s called "magical thinking".
An example: I m writing right now: "CAR CRASH", and I know that at this very instant I wrote these two words, several car crashes occured somewhere on this panet... See, I ve got the power!
That s larouche's method of magics for his believers.

 

howie
06-29-2007, 10:14 AM
His biggest influence, so far as I can sort out, is adding to anti-semitism in the Arab World, partially a money-grubbing scheme for Larouche's part. Hezbollah linked to a Larouche item. The thing is that Hezbollah doesn't need Larouche to help fuel their antisemitism, thank you very much. Hezbollah will link to whatever fits their worldview.
I can easily imagine Kucinich picked up that "Impeach Cheney first" meme from lobbying hordes of Larouchites. But this is a sort of lagging indicator for Larouche, as he now throws himself into an anti-Gore crusade against Global Warming. He was on Dick Cheney back when Bush-Cheney had high approval ratings, back when liberals were a little more desperate and he can echo the idea that a conspiracy is going on with those neoconservatives and PNAC -- which enable him to siphon money from them. Today he's on Al Gore and Global Warming a a time when conservatives are a little desperate, when it can echo the idea that measures against global warming are a plot to regulate industry -- a cause with which he can siphon money from them.
chartron: You've expressed the motives somebody has for entering into the world of Larouche rather well in that last post, but it adds up to Larouche playing off of the insecurities of youth looking at the big, bad world and their realization that, to a certain degree, they've given their identities up to Marketing Firms, also the desire to know more about the world than they do. There are ways of addressing these issues, and Larouche is the absolute worst way.
But he is a "Titan of Output" in the way a writer who pumps out Harlequin Romance novels is one. To the saying of "Let NO ONE doubt his impact and significance." I say let EVERYONE doubt his impact and significance. He has a cult of a thousand youths, or thereabouts, in the United States, who peddle his crap and end up throwing most of it away.
I can go back and pick out points where he held small degrees of significance. A rumor about Michael Dukakis's mental illness dominated a news cycle in the 1988 election campaign. I guess Dukakis didn't much need Larouche's help in blowing a 17 point lead in the polls to lose by 10, but it adds up. Perhaps Larouche has a measure of success in pushing SDI -- maybe. But then again, this is a past era, and at the time the current Larouche crop were busy being born.
To the comments
we are basically whining little critics.
and
Should we try to stop them?
It's a bit of a craps game. #1: There is no stopping Lyndon Larouche, because he has a narrative where he is the Center of the World. Imagine his whole estate being taken away from him, imagine him being thrown into the slammer, etc. He'll write his own history where He Fights the Oligarchy, he'll prop up phony connections with factions of the Oligarchy that are working for Good against the Evil Oligarchy, and he'll send his message out to his dwindled cadre, which is probably good enough for him, ie: He's going to keep creating a Victory narrative for himself. (HECK -- his printing press is gone, and he's running off the Youths printing a lot of stuff for themselves now.) Any desired attempt to "Stop Larouche" needs to keep this in mind -- meaning you have to use your own terms of success without any consideration of Larouche and his 10,000 Hezbelloh link hits.
[continued]

 

howie
06-29-2007, 10:15 AM

  1. 2: You will notice that xlrcer's recent posting of briefings came from someone "getting ready to leave". There you go. To the degree that anyone here is "stopping" him, there's one. I myself can attest to a small handful of emails from people reading my blog thanking me for posting on Larouche, because it tells them what friends of them are getting into. The 2004 Washington Post article about Larouche and Jeremiah Duggan suggests that if the mother had not misspelled Larouche's name when she googled him, she would have been able to stop Jeremiah Duggan from going to that remote conference which, tragically, he had no physical manner of escaping from. Extrapulate that out to other people who might spell his name properly, and even the act of posting these works fairly well.
    Beyond that... well, Dennis King posted that "How to Stop Him" thing a couple months ago. Revisit that, if you want, but if anyone pursues it deeply, always keep in mind the Measure of Success cannot be defined by Larouche and his front page google search for "Impeach Cheney" or his 10K Hezbollah link hits.
 

howie
06-29-2007, 10:23 AM
One more thing: The Moonies. You know, if you look around you'll see the images of prominent politicians meeting with Reverend Moon. (Jarring is Georege Herbert Walker Bush).
And Fred Newman had that alliance with Michael Bloomberg when Bloomberg needed to gain the "Independence Party" ballot line, which Newman will flog and hold onto for his followers whether Bloomberg likes it or not. (Before that, Newman had Ross Perot).
But at least they have photographic evidence to connect them with these figures. Larouche will claim influence with Bill Clinton. And his webcasts are full of imaginary questions from unnamed Members of Congress. Ergo: Moon has more influence than Larouche.

 

sancho
06-29-2007, 10:32 AM
shadok's remark about the ontological primacy of LaRouchian infinitesimals is very insightful: "see, yutes, everybody thinks that infinitesimals are as negligible as we are, when in fact everything hinges on both them and us."
So sick it's scary. Good thing only we ex-members read this crap.

 

charltonrom
06-29-2007, 07:59 PM
All right: some lively discussion.
A few clarifications if I may. My "should we try to stop them" was referring to Iran, and its get-the-bomb-and-wipe-out-Israel agenda.
If LaRouche and Jeff Steinberg and their "contacts" are right, Cheney and co. are gunning hard to make a pre-emptive strike on Iran.
Should this happen? If it DOESN'T, the trajectory is for Iran to get the bomb and carry through their stated program---which also includes a "world without America," as their president has put it.
So do we strike first?
How do you get beyond the existing discursive frame/trap?
I've tried to poke fun at and puncture some of his purely doctrinal krankeries. But despair haunts me when I think about the future. A renewed Westphalia approach of development, to outflank the trap, may be the only hope. If his mega-international-project War Avoidance Strategy is not the way---what is?
In Russia, some are taking up Lyn's ideas, publicly. His speech in Moscow is published in a Russian periodical:
http://www.larouchepac.com/pages/breaking_news/2007/06/07/forum_mag.asp
Again: does anyone herein have any strategy for a way out, without somebody getting nuked? If you have, please edify us. Or maybe we should believe it's all just fate, it's all in God's hands; there's nothing we good citizens can do, but tend our jobs and families, and wait?
Obviously LaRouche doesn't think so. I propose that one of the key reasons Lyn is so reviled is a form of envy-driven resentment. He is an egomaniac but he has an impact-- whether on Reagan or Tremonti or Jose Lopez Portillo or the Russians or Kucinich, he has an impact. Perhaps some of us resent that.
And before you lash out: please detail your plan for Armageddon avoidance. Because that's the orbit we're in, as I see it.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

sancho
06-29-2007, 08:32 PM
There's a constraint as one goes through life called "paying one's dues." It is arbitrary and often unfair - but then life is not fair. That's point number one.
Point number two is to decide what you want to do with your life. You seem motivated to solve strategic geopolitical conundra. OK, that's great, the world needs such people.
Point number three is a plan. The first step is to obtain the best education you can to prepare you for your task. This is necessary for two reasons: (i) you need learn and (ii) in the future, others who will look to you for your judgement will want to be certain that you have mastered the elements of your craft, statecraft, say. The second step is to acquire experience through volunteer opportunities, setting up your own blog, internships, and then those first well-chosen jobs. So overall in terms of learning and experience you are looking at a ten-year horizon to even begin to be positioned to help the world out of its mess. (BTW, the world is always in a mess.) On this message board you have clearly evinced the intelligence and good will that will ensure success in this (or any other) profession.
Contrast this with the LaRouche method: read a lot of magazines, scream and yell, get drunk, imagine yourself the center of the universe, drop out of college, start a cult of young people who hang on your every word and eliminate people who challenge you to be your best, etc.
You be the influential person you imagine this maniac to be; don't waste one more second trying to prop this loser up a la _Weekend at Bernie's_. I guarantee you that the good qualities you project onto him are merely your own. Realize your own dream, and ignore this nightmare freak.

 

sancho
06-29-2007, 08:39 PM
Also, is the world headed toward Armageddon? Neither you nor I by training or experience is qualified to say, so it is at best a doubtful premise taken over from a guy who has been predicting this same thing for over forty years: so don't despair. Focus on getting your own house in order so that you can be a true problem solver for the actual benefit of the world, and not some slackjawed, uneducated, octogenarian onanist like LHL, Joonyah.

 

howie
06-30-2007, 12:21 AM
If LaRouche and Jeff Steinberg and their "contacts" are right, Cheney and co. are gunning hard to make a pre-emptive strike on Iran.
I have heard this already, by more credible sources than Larouche -- I think Seymour Hersh wrote some things to that effect. (Also, rumours of a military attack, with specific dates, on Iran have come and passed -- and there are a number of reasons this may be.) This tells me that Larouche and Steinberg's "sources" are sources available to you and I -- what was famously cited by a Reagan official (I believe) the best private intelligence back in the 1980s has degenerated and dried up. (Though even there it was a little wobbly.)
Honestly: I can think a bit more clearly through the politics of and concerning Iran and come to a more satisfactory conclusion of how things can work out decently than I can with the much more dicey politics of and concerning Pakistan. But, good luck in working out contingencies for what may happen with either and both.

 

shadok
06-30-2007, 12:59 AM
sancho s right: the world is always in a mess
The Middle east is a mess thanks to the neocon utopian policies (Leo Strauss was a platonist btw...) As a consequence, Iran is emerging as a local power to reckon with. Are they crazy (or suicidal) enough to risk Armageddon? Whose interest? It is a game, a dangerous one indeed. So was North Korea! Remember North Korea? Weren't we on the verge of a nuclear Armageddon then? Yes the world is a mess but thank god not all the political leaders are as irresponsible and utopian as lyndon larouche. So there is hope.

 

shadok
06-30-2007, 02:01 AM
larouche's Armageddon
For those who were born before the Fall of the Berlin wall and were campaigning against the Soviet nuclear Armageddon... just this info I read at the time:
Oleg Gordievsky, a KGB defector, revealed (I quote) that during a November 1983 NATO exercise, to enable the Western alliance to practice its nuclear release procedures, the Soviets responded to the manuever by going into an "ill-founded panic," since they believed that "belligerent imperialist circles in the U.S.A. are getting ready for war, and are preparing new weapons systems which could render a sudden attack feasible." (ie the march '83 Reagan's "Strategic Defense Initiative", SDI aka "Star wars") As a result of this "panic," Gordievsky claims, on or about Nov. 8-9 (1983), the world "really passed through a war danger."
I cannot help not to think that these "belligerent imperialist circles in the U.S.A." associated to the SDI, were also connected to ours. We were all over the place at the time, officially invited to speak about the Reagan/Larouche's SDI.
But in August that year, irresponsible larouche wrote an Open letter to Soviet leader Yuri Andropov: "YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO PLUNGE THE WORLD INTO WAR", because of his rejection of Reagan's sdi proposal. Then, in November these NATO maneuvres took place and were perceived by the Soviet KGB as a possible cover or preparation for a US military offensive...
Later we were attacked in the Soviet press as imperialist nazis connected to Reagan etc
So larouche played a very dangerous and irresponsible game then, as unofficial spokesman for Reagan's "parallel diplomacy". A "war of words" similar to Iran's or North Korea's today.
Maybe that motivitated the US authorities to get his mouth shut (that is : the 1986 FBI raid in Leesburg)
Yes the world is and always was a mess, and major crisis occur every now and then.
So if the LYM-ers really want to change the world and make it a better place: get some education and become experienced responsible individuals who work out realistic solutions to this "mess".
And as a good test: start with your own family.

 

eaglebeak
06-30-2007, 06:51 AM
LaRouche's "war avoidance strategy" seems to revolve around whipping up anti-Semitism in the Arab world, as in links to Hezbollah, appearances of him and his on Al-Jazeera, visits by Muriel Mirak-Weissbach to Iran to cozy up with the crazies, visits to Sudan (Mirak again), appearances at Islamist conferences, visits to the Zayed Center in Abu Dhabi and defense of it (http://www.larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2003/030831defend_zayed.html), canoodling with the Islamic Center in Washington, D.C. (canoodling that got pretty serious, as one of LaRouche's main "security" contacts, Farzad Darui, worked for the Islamic Center (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/11/AR2006101101366.html) until he was accused of embezzling. So much for "if Lyn and Jeff and their contacts are right.")
Come on, Charltonrom--this is not a "war avoidance strategy." This is an anti-American, anti-Israeli, Goebbelsian propaganda onslaught. You may be worried about Ahmadinejad, but LaRouche has no problem with him (which I assume you know if you're reading their stuff).
Building up Putin's Russia is not a great idea either, in terms of preserving peace. Of course some in Russia are "taking up" LaRouche's ideas--since all he does is to attack the U.S. morning noon and night, under the guise of attacking the Bush administration.
So, if you're worried about world peace, stay away from LaRouche.
By the way, as to his impact on influentials:
Indira Gandhi told her staff "never let that man in here again" after their meeting.
Turkey's Ozal met with him because he was told that LaRouche was head of the U.S. Democratic Party. Furious when he found out otherwise.
Noriega? The LaRouche people did him a lot of good. They encouraged him in his manic attacks on the U.S. and helped him organize his "Amphictyonic conference" where Noriega waved an ax handle around and raved about war with the United States. Not too long after, the U.S. invaded Panama and Noriega was in custody.
Having an influence on Kucinich? LaRouche is not the one who came up with the idea of impeachment of Cheney. The left has been talking about that since 2001.
Influence on Reagan? Just recall that the SDI was a plank in the Republican Party platform of 1980, courtesy of Edward Teller. LaRouche was a propagandist for "beam weapons," but it's hardly where the Reagan administration got the idea.
Despite Helga's stupid slogan "We have the Patent Recipe," there is no patent recipe for world peace, and those who think there is, are very often those who push the planet closer to war.

 

borisbad
06-30-2007, 08:08 AM
Actually not only did Seymour Hersh warn about imminent invasion of Iran but Pat Buchanan's American Conservative website was warning about Bush "nuking" Iran over a year ago (go check his website, since Buchanan shares Lyn's hatred of the neo-cons and is infamously pro-Arabic. The world always has crises. Many leftists in the thirties warned about the war against fascism and Communists and Socialists were actually out in the streets battling the brownshirts in the thirties. And yes, the world slept as Spain fell, Mussolini invaded Ethiopia, etc. But the fact is that Lyn made his career for the past forty years yelling about the next world crisis that was coming around the corner that only he could solve. The man is a charlatan.
And please study Russian history a little more, you have Putin, a KGB murderer who was probably behind the assassination of the ex-KGB critic in England, and the destroyer of the fledgling democracy in Russia on the one hand, and a resurgent nationalist movement (anti-Semitism in Russia anyone?). Both have been parrotted by the LaRouche organization as "supporters" of his ideas for pan Europe railways, etc.
Lyn has consistently attacked any critics of the current Putin regime which moves every day closer to the restoration of Stalinist type control. And of course, even though Putin has brutally put down any type of independence movement among the Chechyens, he is not above being very friendly with the current regime in Iran.
The thing I think is, even though the Bush-Cheney regime is tremendously bad and corrupt in many ways, LaRouche will work with anyone in the world, forces far more destructive and corrupt since at least Bush has not yet overturned representative gov't, so press his attacks on his so-called enemies like the Queen of England, ADL, etc.

 

borisbad
06-30-2007, 08:10 AM
Further, imagine a philosophy that considers Al Gore one hundred times worse than Hitler, more evil than Bin Laden, worse than Ahmedinizad, etc. And let's not forget Lyn's despicable support for the genocide going on in Darfur where he has consistently supported the Sudanese gov't which sponsors outright genocide against non-Muslims and black Muslims in the southern part of the country. That in itself is enough to tell me what type of "hero" he is.

 

charltonrom
06-30-2007, 10:06 AM
Well, we shall see I suppose.
Not to be a last-word junkie, but the current strategic situation feels different; sure there have always been crises, but the Iran (and yes, Pakistan) problem ratchets up the stakes beyond your garden variety Lyn-crowing crisis, and I'm not the only one who thinks so. Neill Ferguson is a thoughtful analyst, here's his take:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessionid=JAMRQI2CUFACLQFIQMFCFFWAVCBQ YIV0?xml=/opinion/2007/06/17/do1701.xml
My perception comes much more from an independent assessment than just parroting Lyn, who not only understates the Muslim antipathy, he aids and abets it. But I do wonder if this mega-project/new monetary system framework, might be at least worth considering some more. Somebody needs to come up with a substantive alternative to bombing. Having no framework but Lyn's for taking history to the next stage of human physical-economic development---now there's a potentially relative cause for despair.
charltonrom@gmail.com

 

sancho
06-30-2007, 10:26 AM
I don't get this persistent denial of reality ...
A WISH to stop WWIII does not translate into the POWER to stop WWIII.
TALKING/WRITING does NOT equal DOING.
Interesting that no one has stepped forward to state just ONE positive thing LaRouche has accomplished in over forty years of ceaseless bombast and posturing.
Doesn't that teach you anything? Is any of this sinking in? LaRouche is an impotent intellectual and moral fraud ... have the courage to make something of your own life, as have the rest of us after taking the cult blinders off.

 

borisbad
06-30-2007, 02:13 PM
Besides, it is quite possible that the Iranians may take care of the problem of the mullahs and Ahmedinezad themselves given the current eruptions that have taken place there. Chances are that LHL will denounce the demonstrators as elements of a dangerous British intelligence operation.

 

sancho
06-30-2007, 04:13 PM
Here's another aspect of LaRouche's sophisticated intelligence method: take country X. Maybe one of your hacks hooks up by chance at an airport or conference with a prominent personage Y from X who at the time (1) happens to be on the outs with current leader Z of X and, most importantly, (2) buys an EIR sub. Well, waddya know, all of a sudden EIR starts attacking Z as a British agent.
You think this is made up? Paul Ssemogerere of Uganda was an opposition leader to Museveni. As soon as Ssemogerere started to hang out at Schiller Institute conferences, Museveni began to be attacked in LaRouche publications as a British agent. Others here have cited many similar instances of crass politicking on the part of the World's Greatest Hypocrite since Judas.

 

howie
07-01-2007, 12:34 AM
I groaned recently when I saw that Lyndon Larouche was defending the Sudanese Government and airing their propaganda. I think I already said this, but here we have a person calling Al Gore's Global Warming Crusade Genocide against Africans while he pulls a blind eye toward... you know... Genocide against Africans. (A sort of corollary to the "Everyone gets called a Nazi except the actual Nazis" rule.)
boris just posted one of the equations in Iranian politics that makes me spurious that Iran is leading us onto the verge of Nuclear Armegeddon. (And there are a few others, regardless of antagonisms thrown in both directions). There are Democratic Pressures in Iran, have been expressed in the past with Moderate Governments (checked by the Mullahs, naturally).
Since boris brought them up -- there have been Student Demonstrations in the past, disappointing if anyone is actually expecting something on the order of the Berlin Wall falling down or the Velvet Revolution. So... What did Lyndon Larouche have to say about them then?
Incidentally, there are also democratic ("illiberal" as the case may be) pressures in Pakistan, the problem there being that these "democratic" pressures lead to rabid anti-Americanism and radical Islamicism. As it is, the government has one foot with America and one foot against us, Intelligence going every which way, the Pakistan -- Afghan border being no man's land, and the government one modest coup from being in the hands of Islamic Radicals, and then they will have DA BOMB.
Should we now turn to Israel and Palestine and right here and right on this very message board solve once and for all all of the conflagerations in the Middle East?
Answers are complicated. History offers up conflicting advice. And most importantly, in regards to new Crises "being different somehow", to quote Billy Joel, "We didn't start the fire."
A few days ago, this "Yahoo Answers" question popped up in my automatic "larouche" search, which I somewhat hazily but I think accurately enough answered:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AgXU4M.uvoES8lj83y7DyRYjzKIX?qid=200706 25212159AAVqbsa
I checked back to see if anyone made another response, and ran into what I guess is the most viewed page on Yahoo Answers. A somewhat more credible fellow, Steven Hawking, does a little better job of Crisis Mongering than Larouche:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AgXU4M.uvoES8lj83y7DyRYjzKIX?qid=200706 25212159AAVqbsa

 

xlcr4life
07-01-2007, 11:23 AM
A question is raised about what ever happened to the National Anti Drug Coalition. What happened to it is what happens to every thing which involves Lyn. A rationale idea of being against illegal drugs become the irrational vanity project of Lyn. Along the way it is used to make as much money as possible via contributions, sales of Dope Inc books and subscriptions to a magazine. The contacts at the card table shrines are called back for subs to the magazine "War on Drugs". This leads to another call about culture and the drug lobby so we hit them for the Schiller Institute. Lyn is hidden like a crazy gradfather in the basement when all of this is going on.
Next we do something very subtle in contacting candidates adn puting a score card in the magazine for a few issues. Of course, Lyn tops the field. Next comes we "boil" the sub list to get money for Lyn's presidential run. If you blow off some people it is an acceptable loss for a few reasons.
-Hitting the jackpot with some big money or loans will more than make up for the loss if some subscribers. Besides, they will be called back in a few months anyways over and over until they change their phone numbers.
-You really in retrospect do not lose money on the subscription you sold at a card table shrine because you never mail it out in the end.
The same method was used in Fusion magazine which had a different demographic base than the WOD magazine. In the NADC lists they were more pro life and suburban house wives so when we put on our NADC hats we were pro life and for the kids. Being for the kids we then yap about the superiority of classical culture to anyhting going on at the time and see if we can get a bite for the Schiller Institute fundraising if they have no interest in politics.
In the end, no matter what hat we put on making calls the result was that in the end we put on the dunce cap for Lyn. Why do I say dunce cap? Easy.
When we call up subscribers for everything we sold they would ask why they have not recieved a magazine or why it is 6 months late. Wearing a Lyn dunce cap makes it easy for you to beleive the story appearing in the briefing about how Henry Kissinger or some new evil start up has sabatoged the Psot Office from mailing out the materials. Instead of noticing that we are raising huge sums of money, 5 bucks a day is going towards labor and money for postage has been diverted, our people believe that some incredible and mysterious force which wants Lyn assasinated to unleash a New Dark Age has blocked us from paying our postage bills.
The same method was used in building up the FEF base and then boiling it to death for Lyn's campaigns. Now you have to uynderstand something here. Lyn does not make the meetings and calls to people in various fields when we did research on things. The intell staff did and they , in many ways I think subconsiously make us look sane. This happened in every sector of work. As you build up a contact base you find that the people whom you are interviewing start to take an interest in your work. In many cases members left to persue opportunities after Lyn met with a contact and proceeded to show how crazy he is. Pretty much that was the end of the realtionship between Lyn and whomever we were working with.

 

xlcr4life
07-01-2007, 11:31 AM
Out of so many calls you are bound to find similar people who have their own crazy conspiracy story about the world and Lyn is among friends. Lyn is a master at using parlor game tricks to convince yute that he is the unrecognised King of the Physical universe when he really is the King of his own cult. The smartest advice given to me by a close friend in the LC was to notice that a prerequisite to putting your name with Lyn or speak with him at a conference is to be as nuts as he is or to be a former somebody who is now a nobody.
What the yutes should notice is how many of the slugs in the briefing written by Jeff and his friends have this twist where some unamed source tells us "I like the material but I think your boss is crazy". Jeff is busy running his own end game around Lyn and lining up his pieces for a post Lyn world. Lyn is so delusional that he has not caught on after spending years in prison and giving some crazy figure like 11 million to scam artists that Jeff and Paul are the ones who bring in these grifters. Go through the ranks of security and you find quite a collection of people who are "out" but 'in" with Jeff.
Come to think of it, security provided much of the Feds evidence and protected witnesses as well as the never ending parade of grifters to send the loot to.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

xlcr4life
07-01-2007, 03:57 PM
Hopefully this forum will be around next week.
What I wish to show people is something I noticed after I left in the 1980s. In the late 1980s you will find that Lyn has boosted himself up to the same level as Jesus and Socrates. The trial is now the "Third Trial of Socrates" and any evidence of us stealing money and running scams is carefully edited out of the coverage. It is done in a way in which any mentiuon of how we sent our people to withdraw CASH in less than 10K amounts, put it in brown paper bags and send a security guy to Boston to pay a loan shark is something no one knows about.
Nothing is presented to you in a cult unless it serves a purpose. When we were busy stealing the loot we had people read about George Patton and historical figures who did anything to win. Thus, there was no morality present when we emptied a bank account of every last penny and jerked that person around when they wanted their money back. I wonder if in the "Railroad " book the cult has the quote from Lyn to a supporter who needed money that he has nothiung to do with this? Another letter tells a supporter that their problems needing a nurse or something like that is really not our problem.
The cult worked the members to be just as heartless and cruel as Lyn. So lyn really can recreate himself.
As the trials went on and the convictions were occuring we see that Lyn has an endless parade of memos about his destiny to save humanity and how he is the chosen one, against his wishes! This stuff was so thick that members started converting to Christian faiths.
Now what happens next? The Rev Bevel comes in and does a "Convicted Cult makeover" modeled along the lines of what Bevel did for Moon after he was convicted for tax fraud around the same time as Lyn is in the late 1980s. The same MO of paying people to attend conferences, signing ads, hearings and never mentioning the victims or the crimes is now in play. Bevel then makes his way to Nebraska where a Satanic child abuse hoax is running based on a front page headline in the Moon owned Washington Times.
Bevel now makes Lyn to be a white version of MLK using his credentials in the MLK movement to get to many African American officials who may not have read Debbie Freeman's glowing remarks about a Baltimore Senator being a House Nig** for the Jews when sh ran for office. A few members raised questions about Bevel when he showed up in Leesurg. Questions are not what you do in a cult saving humanity. Lyn then issues a memo and/or tells people that Bevel is a genius and if you do recognize that, then you are severely blocked.
This all is quite fascinating as this speech by Moon is pretty much a version of what the LC would hear over and over by Lyn.
http://www.tparents.org/Moon-Talks/sunmyungmoon87/870101b.htm
The Moonie angle is fascinating as we crossed paths with people who were associated with a Moon financed outfit called the World Anti Communist League. The SDI and the idea of laser weapons has been around for many years. We adopted that once we did our pseudo right turn and ran into some WACL people like Gen Danny Graham and Gen Singlaub. both were praised to high heaven by Lyn and on many occasions we were told that these people would be leading a coup against Jimmy Carter with Lyn leading the way behind the scenes. The coup later became an impeach Carter drive which we recruited and raised money for.

 

xlcr4life
07-01-2007, 03:59 PM
Boy this sounds just like what Lyn has going with Dick Cheney. Lyn can claim anything abut Cheney even telling gullible yutes that his webcast is what changed history about Cheney. Wow! I have a ten year old who has more brains than yute as he has seen endless anti Dick Cheney skits and coverage on Comedy Central and the cover of Mad Magazine.
http://www.dccomics.com/mad/?action=on_the_stands&i=6881

Lyn is full of parlor tricks for yutes. Just read the briefing where the LYM proclaim that they were the reason why the Fehmarhn Bridge deal was just announced! The wacked out yutes, living in a completely isolated Bizarro world were born when the project was first announced in 1986
2651109%2C00.html?maca=en-topstories-83-rdf,http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,2651109,00.html?maca=en-topstories-83-rdf (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0%2C)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601100&sid=a5.reMzLiw5w
It took decades to resolve issues like financing, environmental and ferry revenue losses to be resolved. All things in the real world, but not in Bizarro world. Europe has a huge network of high speed trains which are interlinked and the yutes have no concept that a Maglev does not run on the shiny steel rails which the German ICE traisn run on. These are same yutes who think that spending a trillion or so dollars for a Maglev to go from NYC to Siberia over a few days is cheaper than flying a commercial jet that distance. I can only guess that the yutes have really adopted Lyn's superior economic skills which buy a 199 acres of prime Northern Virginia land for a few million and lose it for not paying the stinkin mortgage. That land is now worth several hundred thousand dollars PER ACRE.
Since I left the bizarro world in the mid 1980s, I forgot about the cult and how things are done for a long time. I recently reviewed events which happened after I left which explain how Lyn has created a real hard core cult of personality. In yesteryear, one could be be semi away from Lyn by being in the entities like PMR or World Comp or Computron. Move a little closer and you could stay within the confines of the FEF or sometimes the NADC. If you had some talent musically , you could shuffle yourself over to the music group and have Lyn take your ideas as his own . Your reward was to be on the invite list at Ibykus farm to put on a minstrel show for lyn and Helga. I fyou were a 4 legged dog, you ate pretty well I heard.
The same principal worked in the regions where the farther away you were from the National Office the better it was in relative cult flux density. Regardless of whee you physically happened to be, the reason you were there was because in the end, you joined the national Caucus of Labor Committees or NCLC. The collective word used to describe your self was as a LCer.
Once Lyn got out of prison we find a peculiar thing happening. The NCLC is now just a forgotten memory and in it's place we find a continual usage of the phrase "Larouche Organization" or LO. The brilliant Lyn now does what he has done for decades which is to recruit people, strip them of anything of worth, accuse them of plotting against him, purge them, write memos about it and then blame them for why he is not ruling the Physical world.

 

xlcr4life
07-01-2007, 04:00 PM
Lyn also does something he did a long time ago in the 1970s which is set a cult up based on hatred of age. Think I am kiddding? Find a member who is in hos or her late 50s and they will tell you about how when THEY joined. Lyn was telling that the "68er" generation would create a socialist revolution from the OLD generation. So in effect. Lyn recruited the present "Boomer" members by telling them that they were superior to the old leftists who failed.
Same script different audience yutes. In the transition of the 1990s we find the entities like PMR and World Comp to be the internal enemy, no more front groups to hide away in , no more NCLC but the Larouche Organization. Perhaps Lyn's superior prognostication skills have him guessing that RICO laws may be used against a mafia cult like the LO.
What is left are those deadenders who have no place to go, babies who survived a play date with Nancy Spannaus and a new round of rebuilding by going to college campuses. On the campuses we find that the methods used are right out of Moonie 101 or advanced Krishna grad work. From the getgo the yutes are now LAROUCHEYouth.
Just check out this exerpt from a recent briefing which as an eye opener as a yute meets a Congressman.
" The U.S. Congressman for the area was in attendance, he was speaking that night. I started my leaflet bomb with him, knowing that at some point I would be asked to stop. He must have some how known I was a LaRouchie because he tOLD me he was busy in such way congressman don't dare speak to their constituents."

Sleep with one eye opened yutes. We have more to cover including a program so that you know which grifter friends of Security Lyn has fed millions to.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

howie
07-01-2007, 11:43 PM
I think this forum, and all the other FACTNet forums, have been given a lease of 3 months. We'll see.
Nick Benton's recent article focuses in on the "Cult Against Age" equation from his past, seemingly against your parents, really. One of those psychological buttons.
One of the things I've ended up trying to focus on with my blog, deciding it is a way I can be useful with the topic of Larouche, is the answer for that question for that stray visitor -- "What is my friend (or peer) thinking?" Reading through recollections from past members, current members, semi-members, the answer isn't that complicated, often answered rather straight-forwardly or without any self-awareness but given away unwittingly. There are a few categories of concerns and worries Larouche is tapping into, all of them common to basically everybody -- but the net just manages to capture... I guess those thousand recruits.
Considering further, that matter of impotency has a double meaning, and in terms of Crisis Mongering ... the answer to the impotency is the Larouche Youth Movement, dagnabit!

 

borisbad
07-02-2007, 12:09 PM
What xlc4life says about our generation is absolutely correct. In the 60s we were told that the "greatest generation" that won the war against fascism sold their souls to purchase a house in suburbia and raise their families. This was kind of the "Man in the Gray Flannel Suit" version of encapsulating that generation. Then you mixed it in with Lyn's attacks on Dr. Spock and how the baby boomers parents created a generation of outer-directed rather than inner directed nincimpoops, except of course for those who joined his NCLC. Apparently, Lyn was the only one who was able to keep the momentum of the "greatest generation" alive after everyone else moved to their new homes in Levittown, NY.

 

eaglebeak
07-02-2007, 07:29 PM
Couple this--what borisbad describes--with LaRouche's memorable denunciation of the "greatest generation" as cowards in World War II (says the guy who never saw combat). Why were they cowards? Because they didn't want to die taking Japan, and it was because our parents were cowards (according to LHL) that Harry Truman dropped the bomb--to spare them a few minor casualties (according to LHL, the great strategist of the War in the Paciifc).
Amazing that any Baby Boomers gave the guy house room after he said that.
As to his ravings about the sellout generation--borisbad is right--why did they sell out? Because they came home from years of grueling, hellish war (remember, they were fighting, unlike LHL), and wanted to start families.
Also remember, LaRouche is the guy whose insight tells him that women only have children when they get sick of their husbands, and that procreation is basically twisted and perverse and a sign of corruption, although the broad masses need to do it, because for some reason the world needs more people, even though LaRouche personally hates people and in particular is horrified by children. (also women.)
What a guy.

 

borisbad
07-03-2007, 09:10 AM
One further irony of Lyn's heroic disposition that I overlooked. Initially, his attack on the WWII generation was that, not only did they want to buy homes in the suburbs, but that they capitulated to McCarthyism and the paranoic fears of the Cold War. This to me seemed somewhat logical and did help account for much of what led to the 60s rebellions. But later, when Lyn went from being a pseudo-Marxist ideologue to promoter of Reagan and the SDI, he later described himself as an informant for the FBI in monitoring the SWP and CPUSA in the 50s. So this hypocrite goes from condemning those who capitulated to the Red Scare, to being an informant. (I think this appeared in the Power of Reason book when he totally omitted is Marxist background). This man reinvents himself more than George Plimpton, the Great Imposter did.
Hope this forum will be here after tomorrow.

 

shadok
07-03-2007, 10:26 AM
Future of FACNET
As for the future of this forum... there is an alternative solution if it s to be closed.
I have setup a similar forum on another server where the old posts on FACNET are being transferred. (same options re subscription, anonymity, email notifications etc but also new tools like search engine and faster navigation)
It s at http://forum.laroucheplanet.info/
thanks for visiting

 

eaglebeak
07-03-2007, 01:03 PM
Shadok--just tried logging in at the new site and it did not recognize my name and password. Any advice?
Thanks

 

shadok
07-03-2007, 01:39 PM
Hey I didnt expect you to join so quickly! Thanks! In fact (and i ll make it clearer for the future members) you have to wait for your membership to be accepted (by me in fact). You are notified by email.
SO now you are a member! It s not about being restrictive, anybody can be a member! But we dont want hackers do we?

 

borisbad
07-03-2007, 04:48 PM
Just signed onto Shadok's site. It's good that you had the know-how to set this up. Still hope that factnet continues the discussion board though, since obviously it helps others who joined different cults besides the LaRouche org. and it obviously has the name recognition.
Too bad we don't have the LaRouche fundraising lists so we could contact all the people who lost money to LaRouche and his various guises and they could help support something doing some actual good.

 

howie
07-03-2007, 10:26 PM
That "Impeach Cheney" thingamajing?
I notice that the Larouche tac on "Impeaching Cheney" revolves around some obscure scandal coming from out of Great Britain -- the better to get the British Royal Crown into the mix, with a weird slide on one of the mps who has pushed for a Jeremiah Duggan investigation, and I saw the EIR item flick past me about how the "BEA Scandal is the Thing that Will Break Cheney's Back", or something to that effect.
Meanwhile, back in the world of American politics, and the type of items that American Liberals are foaming at the mouth.:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/theeerin/709810536/
Persistence did not pay off for some LaRouche followers who were yap-yapping about how LaRouche can save the universe from the Baby Boomers, and how only he can save us all from imminent economic disaster – oh – and yeah – he will impeach Cheney too by the way.
I stopped to point out the Cheney-doings of Patrick Fitzgerald the United States attorney in Chicago.
This lady answered, "Who's Pat Fitzgerald?"
..............
Incidentally, the feed from larouchepac pumped out many many many times "Larouche Challenges Youth: Make a Revolution In Science"
... which I take to mean offer up changes in the wikipedia articles for various scientists to the Larouche framework, and not really much else in the way of "Revolution".}

 

sancho
07-03-2007, 11:40 PM
I had intended to do a cut-and-paste 4th-of-July critique of some of that "challenge" - but at this point it all ends up as beating a dead horse. Shadok could not have been more prescient about LaRouche's ideological use of the word "infinitesimal" (which LaRouche does not define) as a metaphor for the significance of his own and his minions' insignificance. To a practicing scientist, LaRouche's worship of "science" must appear to be nothing more than a bizarre twenty-first-century cargo cult, so little does it have to do with reality generally, or with science in particular. One would have to have one's head so very far up one's own a-- to not realize that no scientist believes that sense perception alone generates true scientific hypotheses - but then again we are dealing with a college drop out who has pied-piper-like induced others to drop out and be a no-account as he. As the "In Living Color" parody of the United Negro College Fund ad went after showing twenty seconds of a babbling prison inmate, "a mind is a terrible thing to be left alone."

 

sancho
07-03-2007, 11:47 PM
England and the United States enjoy perhaps the highest per capita distribution of cranks in the world at any given time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank_%28person%29
One must give him his due: Lyn excels as an All-American crank.

 

xlcr4life
07-04-2007, 07:16 AM
Howie,
The question of who Patrick Fitzgerald is to a LYM reminds me of how the easiest way to detabilize a yute is to ask either questions about the lunacy of the cult or ask a serious question about an important issue's technicalities. In so many races we used to run candidates in we had eveyone fired up about somtehing like the SDI or increasing exports. We looked like fools when someone would ask a question in a TV debate about something like "do they support a change in the PBA pension funding as per bill 1669". Our people would quickly mouth off that "if we adopt Lyn's IDB proposal we would be able to do what needs to be done"
If you asked about an SSI COLA figure you got "Laruche's Export-Import Bank proposal vis a vis the world wide developmental forces who are fighting the British Dark Ages proposal of Prince Philip would resolve this issue".
All I could do was cringe and plan my eventual escape as it became clear to me that this was all a parlor game of Lyn , designed not to work except to make worshippers. Lyn would issue memo after memo stating that there are NO LOCAL ISSUES except the election of him to save the USA and humanity as the world faces " A Thermonuclear War and a depression". This has been the case from the first time we ran candidates in the 1970s to now. You never see how crazy this is until you leave and then see it again.
On campues across the US, students have the right idea. They have been reading this forum and Justiceforjermiah.com along with other sites and go up to card table shrines to ask goofball questions to see how long they can jerk a yute around till the ragged old guy with half his teeth missing deadender shoos them away. Boston has been very good at this recently. In the West Coast they ask the yutes why they killed Jeremiah and why are they in a cult. The cult now tells the yutes that this is all an oepration to deny Lyn his role in saving humanity as the economy collapses around them. The yiutes are telling people who ask questions about the cult they are in that 'Oh , you must have gotten that slander a web site from Henry Kissinger".
If you read the BAE articles you notice how a bribery issue of purchasing military goods by the Saudis now encapsulates the death of Jereniah Duggan. This is typical policy of Lyn in dealing with serious problems. As more legal, human rights groups and gov oficials begin their look at how sick this cult is Lyn releases ink like a sqid. The ink released is really not for the outside world but for internal cult consumption. The issue is not what happened to Jeremiah Duggan or Ken Kronberg based on them being involved with this mad man, but how these deaths are so unimportant and meaningless to Lyn. The members are being slowly prepared to not ask why these two people died or why so many LC and supporters have been destoyed by the cult, but that were part of a world wide conspiracy to get Larouche.
You have to include the British and The Queen in this and you have to include Dick Cheney in this. You have to include economic collapse and you have to include nuclear war. Remember, everything which Lyn and the cult produces is first to convince you to be out there 7 days a week for pennies an hour. Yutes have to be mobilized at all times, everything else is just whatever happens in the news that can be form fitted to Lyn's delusions.
What you do not find from the news which Lyn and the cult is very carefull about is ever stating that terrorist atrocities around the globe are done by anyone else except the British and the Israelis.
We will look at that next.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

xlcr4life
07-04-2007, 07:55 AM
Since Lyn lusts over new funding sources, what gets covered and how in our publications is designed to allow you to call that sector for money, meetings and money. Lyn and the gang have been chasing Arabs and Muslims around the globe for years in hope of some success.
In the 1970s we made money off of the failure of Jimmy Carter to go after the Muslim Brotherhood and the Iranians. We had numerous articles and special reports about how the Islamic world was filled up with the old Nazis . In rereading those articles it is funny how we never really attacked the anti semitism of the Muslim world as a state sponsored project and carefully sperated the WW2 era from the present. Lyn has an easy outlet in certain Mid East media since anyone who wants to blame misery and death in the Arab/Muslim world on outside forces instead of internal sources is welcome.
Consider a recent interview Lyn did with an Ibero based radio station when the question of 9/11 came up.


PILLAJO: Okay. Mr. LaRouche, I would like to transmit a
question to you from the Prefect of Carchi, which is one of the
northern regions of Ecuador, from Gen. René Yandún.
The question is: Where does all the financing come from for
the wars which the United States wages around the world? And in
particular, 9/11--who was behind that and where did the financing
for it come from?
LAROUCHE: 9/11 is a very sensitive question, and I'll be very cautious in answering it. We know, and have known since before it happened, as I warned on Jan. 3rd, 2001, that a coup would be planned in the United States, modeled upon the precedent of what Hermann Goering did with Hitler, in setting fire to the
Reichstag in 1933. Over the years, we've known this is the case:This was a coup. We were trying to pinpoint what was the financial forces which were able to finance what we call "9/11."
To run an operation like 9/11 costs many, many billions of dollars. And who has billions of dollars, out of the control of governments? Now, the finger of suspicion--and it's suspicion--is pointing toward the BAE, as something {outside} the power of governments, which did have the power and capability to do what 9/11 represents.
So, that's the situation we're in, right now, still. And that's the real issue of Cheney.

 

xlcr4life
07-04-2007, 07:57 AM
Instead, we find that Lyn and the LYM are now basically doing PR for Osama Bin Laden. We now go to Stockholm where the Euro yutes have replaced OBL as a source of death with BAE!



  • - "FORGET OSAMA, IT'S AL-YAMAMAH" -

    STOCKHOLM OPS June 26, 2007
    Six LYM members deployed at Fittja, one of the suburbs of Stockholm, where the forgotten people live. It was not easy to capture people's minds, since they gave their contacts very politely, " yes of course". The inhabitants of Fittja mostly originate from Northeast and Western Africa, the youth are very lost and underestimate their creative powers. We organized
    around how LaRouche and the LYM were unfolding the BAE scandal, which is the last kick in the Dick out of office. People were not shocked at all at our BAE pickets "Her Majesty's Game of Fire"
    and "Forget Osama, It's Al-Yamamah."

  • Al-Yamamah is not a person you dopes but the deal made to buy weapons.
    http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=8282206898113&lang=en-US&mkt=en-US&FORM=CVRE10
    The British localities which had high tech jobs (which the cult can't perform because they dropped out of school) wanted those contracts and even the French wanted in on the action. Oh, if you ever say "France" you should do it like Lyn does "Fraaauuunce". I crack up when I hear LC do it the same way.
    Last year in JEST I mentioned that the cult is now singing for spare change for Lyn. We now go to Boston where I'll be damned, the cult is fullfiling my prophecies better than Lyn.

  • Boston Operations Report: New Canon Effect
    This canon was written impromptu at a recent night
    deployment at Harvard Square. I found that when accompanied by
    two posters (One with the lyrics written up, and a second one
    boldly calling for Cheney's impeachment), this simple canon,
    more than any other, had a profound effect on those passing by,
    prompting many to walk up and contribute money to our donations
    can. This optimistic canon made people happy, especially the part
    about Dick Cheney being in 'deep Kimchee'.
    It's to the tune of Mozart's "Alleluia" excerpt from
    "Exultate Jubilate," the simple lyrics are as follows:
    "Al-Yamamah, Al-Yamama-ah, Al-Yamamah, Al-Yamamah.
    Al-Yamamah, Al-Yamama-ah, Al-Yamamah, Al-Yamamah.
    Dick Cheney is in Deep Kimchee."
    • *
 

xlcr4life
07-04-2007, 08:00 AM
I think I am batting a thousand with you yutes. Lyn and other people here know that you are in a cult. You do not. Which is why we are off today and planning vacations with our families while you are getting up every day to snort exhaust fumes . man card table shrines and sing for spare change.
Do you really think that Lyn gives a rat's <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> about your lives? Go back a few weeks and reread his conf. call Q/A with the LYM chapters. Lyn even jokes about how how all the cars are broken down. When he hears about a new broken down Larouchemobile he guffaws and asks if there were any fatalities! Put a picture of Mike Gelber on your dash board yutes and check on the memorial fund Helga set up.
xlcr4life@hotmail.com

 

eaglebeak
07-05-2007, 11:18 AM
Glad to see FactNet is still here....

 

xlcr4life
07-05-2007, 06:09 PM
Well then, let us continue in demonstrating what the yutes are indeed supporting when they shave several years of their life spans in a bizarro world of inhaling exhaust fumes, singing for spare change and swallowing Lyn's lunacy.
For years and years Lyn would let out a hearty laugh whenever an inquiring journalist asked him about his addiction to the Queen of England. Lyn would denounce anyone who asked that question as a drug dealer and ask how they could ask that. Well, just read what Lyn writes for 30 years and it does become pretty obvious, except if you are stil in the bizarro world of Lyn.
Today's lesson for the yutes is to see how their energy is being expended doing PR work for Osama Bin Laden . You see yutes, no matter what you get out of reading Kepler or singing Bach, everything begins and ends with Lyn. You just happen to be maybe the last set of college drop outs who get to waste a few years thinking that you are doing something. It all boils down to how your keen sense of beauty and your power of reason and your energy keep Lyn's world from collapsing and going bankrupt. Oh he and the fellow geniuses have had a hand in many economic collapses, usually members, business and supporters. But, you need someone whose driver license says "Yesterday " when you check the DOB to bail him out.
Check your drivers licenses yutes because here is the latest Lyn brilliance from the briefing you can add to your resume .



  • Lyn also noted, with glee, that we really have nabbed the
    Queen in these recent so-called Al Qaeda pseudo-terrorist attacks
    inside England and Scotland. A full report/slug will appear in
    tomorrow's briefing, but the highlights are: The trigger for the
    recent incidents in London and in Glasgow, Scotland was the
    recent announcement by the Queen, that Salman Rushdie, the author
    of the Islam-hating Satanic Verses, had been Knighted. This
    insult, a conscious provocation by the Crown, is what instigated
    the attacks. Al Qaeda had nothing to do with this. The networks
    carrying out the incidents are well-known. But the trigger was
    the action by the Crown, to create the provocation with the
    Rushdie Knighthood. Why did they carry out this knowing insult?
    The Crown is desperate to change the subject of the BAE scandal,
    for one. They want to give some backing to incoming Prime
    Minister Gordon Brown. And the targeting of Glasgow, Scotland
    airport for one of the attacks was aimed at reviving ``Unionist''
    feelings in Scotland, following the SNP victory and the
    accelerated drive for Scottish independence and the bustup of the
    United Kingdom.

  • When Lyn looks at the yutes, he sure has glee in his eye.
    xlcr4life@hotmail.com
 

borisbad
07-06-2007, 09:39 AM
So these doctors must have been seers to be able to have arranged to begin attending medical schools and hospitals in the British Isles, and have started the process of their acts for jihad based upon somehow knowing that Rushdie was going to be knighted by the evil Queen in June 2007. This swill is such a total pandering to teh Islamist crowd it's amazing.

 

eaglebeak
07-06-2007, 01:55 PM
I bet you a thousand bucks neither LaRouche nor anyone else in that pathetically anti-intellectual organization ever read Satanic Verses.
But seriously, even if Rushdie were "Islam-hating," who cares? The Muslim terrorists LaRouche is sucking up to certainly are Christian-hating and Jew-hating. Plus they're wouldbe killers--but apparently that's not a "provocation."
Is LaRouche now supporting Khomeini's call for Rushdie to be killed for writing a book?
This is really grotesque. I wouldn't be surprised to see the LaRoucheJugendbewegung out there burning books pretty soon. (Or maybe they're already doing it, down there in The Basement.)

 

shadok
07-06-2007, 02:49 PM
eaglebeak
burning the books?
yes the LYM called for burning the (text)books in may 2003! It was in Wiesbaden. At the same time there were events throughout Germany to mark the 70th anniversary of the nazi bonfires. They were done by the SA and the nazi university students- and had started in... may 1933.
The author of this article was Jason Ross, a recruiter of Jeremiah Duggan who was killed a couple of monthes before. Jason was thrilled by the European LYM taking off since that fateful Wiesbaden conference where Jeremiah died.
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/fall%202003/burn.pdf

 

howie
07-06-2007, 10:51 PM
This is kind of juvenile, but probably goes to about where he deserves:
http://www.squelched.com/dailysquelch/index.php?d=2007-07-06
Lyndon Larouche Outlines Healthcare Plan
With every major candidate now weighing in, healthcare reform has quickly become the hot-button issue of the 2008 presidential election. Not to be left behind, perennial candidate Lyndon Larouche released the details of his own healthcare plan.
"The arteries of this nation are clogged with Jew-beef," said Larouche campaign manager Booby Moonchild. "Our healthcare plan is really simple. I mean, once we seal Queen Elizabeth in the containment vessel, British nanobodies will have to stop making Americans sick. I mean duh, right?"
Larouche, who has actually been dead for 15 years, refused to speak with reporters directly, but released a xerox of a butt with a face drawn on it and the words "satan vomit cheney poop cheney" in a little dialogue balloon.
Further details of Larouche's healthcare plan remain unavailable, but an aide handing out fliers in front of the supermarket called it "totally boss."

 

eaglebeak
07-07-2007, 07:37 AM
Shadok--
Thanks for that reference. I didn't realize that they have already called for burning books.
Now that I look at this thing by Jason Ross, however, I am amazed at how empty their analysis of Plato is, as if Plato were a geometry textbook (which they otherwise want to burn). Blecch.
I noted that you said Jason Ross was among the recruiters of Jeremiah Duggan (to go to the conference in Wiesbaden, I guess you mean). Is Jason Ross is still around today--or has his conscience bitten him?
After Jeremiah Duggan's death, what really "took off" was the European leadership. I have often wondered whether there were some connection between Duggan's death and the fact that almost all of the EEC and EC dropped out together last year.

 

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